104 thoughts on “War Over a Tree – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. It has been speculated that this border tension has something to do with the fact that STL (Special Tribunal for Lebanon) is starting to prosecute Hezbollah members for the assassination of former prime minister Hariri.

    http://en.alalam-news.com/node/255645

    Assad tells Hariri to keep STL fears in check, says As-Safir
    July 29, 2010

    As-Safir newspaper reported on Thursday that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad advised Prime Minister Saad Hariri not to let some Lebanese public figures aggravate matters related to the Special Tribunal for Lebanon (STL).

    According to the daily, Assad told Hariri during their meeting earlier this month in Damascus that the Lebanese should avoid accusing Hezbollah of being involved in the 2005 assassination of former PM Rafik Hariri.

    Tensions are high in Lebanon after Hezbollah Secretary General Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah questioned the credibility of the STL in several speeches earlier this month.

    In a July 16 speech, the Hezbollah chief called the tribunal an “Israeli project” designed to create sectarian conflict in the country. Last Thursday, he claimed Hezbollah members would be named in the STL’s pending indictment. The announcement prompted fears that a sectarian conflict similar to the May 7 events in 2008 could once again break out.”

    http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArchiveDetails.aspx?ID=189781

    1. …the Hezbollah chief called the tribunal an “Israeli project” designed to create sectarian conflict in the country.

      Wow, how did he come up with THAT idea?! I mean, Israel has never done anything like that before, has it? It especially has never done anything like that in Lebanon, has it? What a crazy guy to suggest such a thing!

      1. the late prime minister hariri wanted syrian armed forces out of lebanon and hezbollah disarmed.

        Hariri’s death sparked massive demonstrations for and against the presence of Syrian troops and security agents in Lebanon.

        Syria pulled its troops out of Lebanon at the end of April. Hariri was a key mover in getting a U.N. resolution to call on Syria to remove its troops and intelligence assets from Lebanon. Resolution 1559, passed last year, which also called on Lebanon to disband guerrilla groups.

        A U.N. report released in March said the government of Syria “interfered” with governance in Lebanon in a heavy-handed way that was “the primary reason for the political polarization that ensued” before Hariri’s death.

        “It is obvious that this atmosphere provided the backdrop for the assassination of Mr. Hariri,” the report said.

        The Lebanese opposition has gone further, saying his assassination was an act of political retribution by Syria.

        http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/17/un.hariri/index.html

      2. Are you really suggesting that Hassan Nasrallah’s insinuation that the STL is something that the Israelis set up? I mean really?? Do you think Prime Minister Saad Hariri is an Israeli stooge?

    1. Bullcrap. Lebanon claims the territory is Lebanese. UNIFIL has asked both sides to wait before taking action so that it could work out a compromise. The IDF refused to wait & began trimming. THis is typical Israeli bulvan behavior. Outrage indeed. And stop telling me what you think I should do, write or think. That annoys me no end. So stop doing it.

      1. Both parties accepted “blue line” as the official border and not the border fence. Whether or not that area north of the border fence is lebanese they signed a treaty that they will abide that agreement. There is no dispute of that. We can go on and on how many times israelis flew over the blue line and how many times militias fired ammunition over the blue line. They have both violated UN resolution 1701.

        Blue line was defined by the UN. This tree trimming was not anything out of the ordinary on the border. Tree trimming in the past has been coordinated with the UNIFIL. All parties were informed what was going to happen in advance.

        I just find it strange that almost all here blame that israel iniated this to start a war against lebanon.

        when even arab media is speculating that this might have something to do with STL starting to prosecute Hezbollah members for the assassination of Hariri. I find it odd that just before this border clash Assad visited Lebanon after 8 years and warned that if the Lebanese government approve this trial, it will have serious consequences.

        1. This tree trimming was not anything out of the ordinary on the border.

          You clearly do not understand the situation in a war zone. Anything that happens in a DMZ like this is fraught with danger. The least thing can set off a serious incident. Trimming a tree in this type of situation can certainly be something “out of the ordinary.”

          1. [comment deleted–the next time you publish virtually the same comment four times you may lose your privileges entirely]

          2. That is propaganda. Give me source where it says that the area south of the blue line is DMZ. Your making this up.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demilitarized_zone

            No mention on any israeli-lebanon DMZ. Lot of other DMZs but not on that border. Your making things up.

            Unless you have some source that clearly states that there exists DMZ in that spesific area I have to believe that this is figment of your imagination.

          3. There is a zone between the two sides into which neither side ventures without notifying the other & UNIFIL. You can call it anything you like. I called it a demilitarized zone. I don’t care what you call it. But the plain truth is that there is not a single border line observed in present circumstances except on paper & in theory. There is a zone that separates the sides.

            And if you want to add grandstanding statements you’ll wear out yr welcome here real quick. You’re on the shortest of short leashes as it is.

    2. Uncle joe mccarthy does Israeli army really send a very high ranking officer which lieutenant-colonel to lead a minor tree cutting work. Come-on. Normally leading such operations are done by by sergeants or lieutenants (at highest). Let us remember that lieutenant-colonel is only one step away from a general. Only when “big things” are happening high ranking officers like lieutenant-colonels go to the “front line”. So it is obvious that Israel wanted to make a provocation and equally the Lebanese Army wanted send a message by killing the lieutenant-colonel. Not the private ordered to cut the tree. (I assume that the tree cutter was a private. He might also been a major or captain, because Israel can afford so highly educated (militarily) tree cutter teams on their moving borders. :D)

      1. Simohurtta.

        “a very high ranking officer which lieutenant-colonel to lead a minor tree cutting work.”

        This lieutenant-colonel was a reservist and this was supposed to be his last day in reserve unit.

        This was supposed to be his last day of duty so I don’t think your argument (“Only when “big things” are happening high ranking officers like lieutenant-colonels go to the “front line”.”) works here quite well.

        1. No matter that he was a reservist and/or it was his last day. He was a lieutenant-colonel and such military “persons” do not waste their time with minor cleaning works, especially on their last day of a service round. The only relevant question is – why was there a Israeli lieutenant-colonel “watching” the events.

          If it was only a tree cutting mission, there was no need for a lieutenant-colonel. If it was something else there was a need for a lieutenant-colonel.

      2. im just restating what unifil said…despite richard’s protestations

        richard again shows that this blog has little to do but bash israel…no matter what the facts

        and the facts are…a wanton murder was committed at the border

        doesnt matter if bibi himself was there cutting down trees…israel stayed on its own side of the blue line…and the border

        1. Oh I see. When an Israeli soldier is killed after Israel refused to use the mediation efforts of UNIFIL to broker an agreement, it’s wanton murder. But when Lebanese soldiers & a journalist are killed, it’s something not even worth mentioning. You’re a callous individual & “Hasbara” is your middle name.

          Again, you betray your ongoing ignorance. There is a ZONE between the two countries. It isn’t purely a borderline except in theory. On the ground there is a zone into which neither side may step w/o an elaborate set of precautions being taken. Israel only took some, but not all of them & paid the price. Killing is bad. But when you only whine about killing on one side you’re revealing you’re an apologist.

          this blog has little to do but bash israel

          Liar. Keep skating on thin ice my friend. Next time you violate the rules, you’re outa here.

          1. Uncle Joe, Objective, and others: Don’t you realize yet that Richard Silverstein and co. is a vicious anti-Israeli cyber-bully? Why wasting your precious time, unless you’re masochistic?

  2. This is the best you can come up with?…..Amazing.
    Israeli soldiers working on their side of the border to clear brush away from the fence get attaked and the only thing you have to say is to warn O’bama that he should tell Israel that war with Iran is not an option.

    UNIFIL admists they were informed about the tree clearing operation.
    UNIFIL has a responsibility to inform the Lebanese that Israel will be carrying out this operation? Did they?
    Why was a Reuters photographer and journalist on site prior to the attack?
    Why are there pictures of UNIFIL soldiers and Lebanese RPG wielding soldiers overlooking the site of the attack?

    You have the makings of premeditated attack on Israeli soldiers operating inside its own border and the best you can come up with is warning Israel that war with Iran is not an option.

    Staggeringly ignorant imho.

    G.

    1. They weren’t working “on their side of the border.” They were working in a no man’s land that both sides claim is their own. Would U.S. forces go into the DMZ bet. North & South Korea & begin trimming trees w/o getting agreement fr. both sides before doing so??

      UNIFIL asked Israel not to begin work until it could work out an agreement w. the Lebanese. Instead of waiting it began trimming.

      1. You’re correct in that both sides have reservations regarding the blue line. What you didn’t say is that whatever these reservations may be, both sides agreed in 2000 to respect the blue line as the current border between Lebanon and Israel, until otherwise decided.

        “Notwithstanding their reservations, both governments have confirmed that establishing the identifying line was the sole responsibility of the United Nations, the Secretary-General notes, and that they would respect the line the United Nations’ identified.” Source: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2000/20000618.sc6878.doc.html

        So when the UN confirms that Israeli soldiers were working south of the blue line, it doesn’t mean they were working on no man’s land. It means they were on working on the Israeli side of the blue line, the one that Lebanon agreed to respect.

        “UNIFIL has established, however, that the trees being cut by the Israeli army are located south of the Blue Line on the Israeli side.” Source: http://www.un.org/News/ossg/hilites/hilites_arch_view.asp?HighID=1686 .

        BTW, unless I’ve missed something, the reservations of Lebanon regarding the blue line are with regards to Shebaa farms and the Hermon. You can see it in the first link above. Since Misgav-Am is (from what I know) far from being in Shebaa farms, let alone far from the Hermon, it looks like Lebanon has no reservations regarding the border at the location of the incident. Except maybe it has issues with Israelis trimming trees on the Israeli side of the border. But I don’t think that counts as a valid reservation.

        1. Please do NOT repeat yrself in comments. If you do, you’re violating the comment rules. Say it once & then say something else. What you said was wrong the first time you said it & saying it again a 2nd time didn’t make it any less wrong.

  3. it’s quite revealing that you would ask obama to place the onus on Israel not to “start a war” while ignoring completely the countless acts of war carried out by Iran against Israel over the past 10 years. Iranian made missiles and rockets are fired at Israel from Gaza and Lebanon, Iran arms and finances Hezbollah and Hamas, while its president and supreme leader continues to produce Hitlerian speeches denying the Holocaust and calling for Israel’s destruction. But you think Obama has to tell Israel to cool it. How very revealing.

    1. countless acts of war carried out by Iran against Israel over the past 10 years.

      Say what? What in God’s name are you talking about??

      Iranian made missiles and rockets are fired at Israel from Gaza

      From Gaza? Really. Considering the rockets are manufactured in Gaza how can they be made in Iran? I think there’ a logic synapse misfiring in yr brain.

      The rest of yr comment is more lie- or distoriton-filled hasbara of which I rapidly tire. I know it’s a waste to tell you to read my comment rules before commenting again. But if you don’t do so & publish more propaganda your life as a commenter here may be very short.

      1. Qassam rockets are manufactured in Gaza, but longer distance Grad rockets like the one fired recently from Gaza are manufactured in Iran. Even your own American intelligence agencies know that Iran arms and finances Hezbollah and Hamas. Your threats to ban those who question your radical and absurdly slanted rants does not surprise me in the least.

        1. longer distance Grad rockets like the one fired recently from Gaza are manufactured in Iran.

          Can you show me any proof in any credible media source that says that these particular rockets in this particular attack came from Iran.

          Even your own American intelligence agencies know that Iran arms and finances Hezbollah and Hamas.

          The amt of support Iran provides Hamas is quite small. And it could be non existent if Israel & the U.S. had a diff. policy toward Hamas & Gaza.

  4. There’s no “fight over a tree”, there’s a Hezbollah publicity stunt. When things get nasty in the inner affairs, provoke an incident with “the usual suspect” and divert attention. the oldest trick in the book.

    “It is high time that Obama warns Israel in no uncertain terms that war with Iran is NOT on the table. Not now. No way, no how”. why?

    1. Hizbullah has absolutely nothing to do with this border incident.
      We could discuss ad vitam aeternam about who started, who’s wrong and who’s right, whether the three was within the buffer zone, south or north of the Blue Line, why the UNFIL were not there etc etc. This is just another incident, and the Israelis have had hundreds on their borders, with all their neighbours so I tend to paraphrase Dylan about the ‘Schoolyard Bully’, but I guess I’m biased.

      Here is another absolutely great article from Gideon Levy, ‘one of the last Mohicans’ in a country growing crazy:
      http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/only-we-re-allowed-1.306104

    2. Israel has a lengthy and well-documented history of deliberate provocation in order to spark an incident that goes back to its earliest days. Much of it is meticulously documented in U.N. sources, some in first-person accounts of U.N. observers, and a good deal of it is present in Israeli documentation. Whenever there is an incident like this the first thing that should come to mind is that Israel is using its favourite technique to get something going.

      1. Shirin you are an amazing source of information. You should create your own blog. I have learned so much from you here and on similar sites you respond. Please consider your own site. I bet Richard would second that idea.

          1. I also would like Shirin to become your co-blogger or maybe start her own blog. She’s always got something interesting to say and the information she provides is the sort you virtually never see in the MSM.

    3. Probably I’m wasting my time, Yakov, in responding to your post. But that “why” of yours, even in lower case, in response to Richard’s sane condemnation of war with Iran is so incredibly disgusting that it makes me wonder how typical of Israeli thinking it is. If, indeed, yours represents a rather average outlook, I am appalled, as the rest of the world should be. Do you know, do you even care that wars destroy both people and decency itself and can spread like rot and disease? Or perhaps you are merely one of those warriors, armchair or otherwise who are either totally stupid or thoroughly amoral as to like and advocate war.

      1. How nice it is to leave a question that’s open for interpretation and than see how people assume certain things about you. enlightening, indeed.

        I do not, in any way, encourage a war with Iran or anyone else. When it comes to Iran, you have to decided whether you agree with them having nuclear weapons or you don’t. if you do, you contradict your own reply, since nukes surely destroy people and don’t contribute to decency at all.

        If you don’t – there’s another question coming up. Are you willing to do anything about it? If you don’t, you’re still contradicting your own reply. If you do, you can’t take the war option off the table. Your sanctions must be credible. You must have resolve. You should not go to war but you must convince the other side you will if you have to.

        There should be a stick, even an imaginary (but credible) as well as a carrot. Otherwise, your sanctions are doomed to fail. Why bother? let’s share some of the American nukes with Iran and be done with it.

        1. When it comes to Iran you have to decided whether you agree with them having nuclear weapons or you don’t.

          First shouldn’t you determine with some certaintly that they actually do have a nuclear weapons program? People seem to be skipping that step rather obviously. And if it can be determined that they do have such a program they are in violation of their agreement to the NPT. Until then they are not in violation, at least in any way serious enough to justify all the sanctions and bellicose yackety yack that is coming out of DC, Tel Aviv, etc.

          Iran is as entitled as any other country to develop nuclear technology for peaceful domestic use. No one has yet demonstrated that they are doing anything more than that. Until then people should just shut up, and maybe even make some efforts to develop decent relations with Iran. But of course, if they succeeded at that it would mean losing Iran as bogeyman du jour, and they’d have to invent another one.

          1. If Iran’s nuclear program is purely civilian, why do they play a cat and mouse game with the IAEA? Why not simply comply with inspections? From a pure engineering point of view, their civilian enrichment program could easily be used for weapons and Iran in fact states so. Their avoidance of the IAEA implies deceit.

            Than there’s the purchase of equipment on the black market. why would they need it? They’ve signed the NPT under which they have the right for a civilian nuclear program. why hide facilities? why deceive the IAEA? why not go through NPT channels? If we have it your way, we’re going to wake up to an Iranian bomb test one day. what will you have to say than?

          2. A civilian enrichment program cannot “easily” be used for weapons & you don’t know anything about such programs if you remotely believe what you’re written is true.

            We’ve had Israeli bomb tests & tests by every other nuclear power & the world hasn’t blown up. It won’t if Iran gets the bomb. I’d prefer they didn’t & would like the U.S. to negotiate to avoid this prospect. But neither Israel nor the U.S is doing ANYTHING that would lead Iran in that direction.

  5. “We have a very capable aid system, and we’re able to give assistance where it’s needed, whether that be in Haiti or Africa,” he went on.

    “And we give aid for two reasons.

    One is because of tikkun olam [the Jewish concept of repairing the world], meaning we have a moral obligation to do so, and two, because it helps Israel’s diplomatic and hasbara [public relations] efforts around the world.”

    http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=183698

  6. It is well documented that Israel violates Lebanese territory very frequently. This includes regular incursions into Lebanon’s airspace. The Lebanese army has no interests to make war. The Lebanese army didn’t even participate in the 2006 war. Yakov, are you serious?

  7. Terry they are both violating UN resolution 1701.

    Full cessation of hostilities (OP1)
    Israel to withdraw all of its forces from Lebanon in parallel with Lebanese and UNIFIL soldiers deploying throughout the South (OP2)
    Hezbollah to be disarmed (OP3)
    Full control of Lebanon by the government of Lebanon (OP3)
    No paramilitary forces, including (and implying) Hezbollah, will be south of the Litani River (OP8).

    Between 2000-2006 both countries have violated agreements. Hezbollah by firing Katyushas and israel by flying over Lebanese territory.

    since 2006 nothing has changed. Hezbollah and other organizations keep firing ammunition till this day in to israeli territory and israel violates Leb. airspace and fires back at the sites where the Katyushas were launched.

  8. The “Blue Line” (where this skirmish occurred) is contested territory. For example, Shabaa Farms is also south of the Blue Line and is really Lebanon’s. However, gunning down a guy trimming a tree is spineless and reckless. Criticizing Israel’s land grab is valid, and taking Lebanon to task for this provocation is too.

    1. Well, David, apparently you haven’t read anything about this incident. The Israeli LIEUTENANT-COLONEL who was killed was not the one trimming the tree !! I suggest that you read something else than NYT, and if you do read French ‘Le Monde” has published many very interesting articles since Tuesday, not as biased as Isabel Kerchner.

      If you want to see how the TSAHAL is trimming a tree, here you go. It is photo number 2.

      http://actualite-israel.com/affrontement-a-la-frontiere-entre-le-liban-et-israel-74841/

      I’m not a professional woodcutter but I don’t see why you have to use a crane from the other side of a fence to cut a tree on your side. We’re talking of ONE TINY tree, and a huge Israeli provocation. The UNFIL asked the Tsahal to delay the ‘operation’ as the UNFIL commander was on holiday, UNFIL testimonies say that the Lebanese Army started by firing warning shots, and the Tsahal was the first to fire. Never mind.

      Tsahal has sent more troops to the Libanese border, and next time a Libanese soldier scratches his head without permission it’ll be an excuse to start another war. That’s how it worked out in 1982 and in 2006. Endless Israeli provocation, daily violations of the Lebanese airspace, and at the first response from Lebanon, the invasion started. Read Gideon Levy that I linked above, please, he’s talking about Israeli chutzpah !

      1. Yes, looks like a piece of construction equipment, and I see a tree. Look, let’s call things by their proper name here. I’m no Israel defender, but the Lebanese sniper who killed the Israeli during this tree-clearing exercise was scarcely different from the IDF troops who shoot at Gaza civilians gathering crops in the “buffer zone” Israel built.

        Pointing to someone being on the wrong side of a metal link fence as license to murder is immoral — whether it’s Israel, Lebanon, or you doing it.

        1. As I already wrote, I don’t know who did what first, and I have read dozens of articles on the topic for the last two days, so . .

          But, please, don’t compare the killing of an Israeli professional soldier on duty on the Libanese border with the killing of civilians in Gaza, particularlu that the ‘buffer zone’ in Gaza is all on the ‘Palestinian’ side (I put the quotation marks, because to me it’s all Palestine) and it’s rather flexiible according to who’s on duty in Tsahal.
          And just in case you forgot, 3 Lebanese were killed too.

          Do you know how many Lebanese, soldiers AND civilians, have been killed since the end of the war in 2006 by Tsahal ? I’m sure you don’t, there has to be an Isreali killed for Western mass media to ‘treat’ the topic.

          1. “Do you know how many Lebanese, soldiers AND civilians, have been killed since the end of the war in 2006 by Tsahal ? I’m sure you don’t, there has to be an Isreali killed for Western mass media to ‘treat’ the topic.”

            Give me a credible source and the link.

        2. the Lebanese sniper who killed the Israeli during this tree-clearing exercise was scarcely different from the IDF troops who shoot at Gaza civilians gathering crops in the “buffer zone” Israel built.

          Surely you are not seriously equating an on-duty member of Lebanon’s military shooting at armed on-duty Israeli soldiers who were engaged in a border operation (albeit not overtly a combat operation) with Israeli soldiers killing unarmed Palestinian farmers who are trying to harvest their own crops on their own land?

      2. That is very much the type of technique Israel used in the Golan Heights DMZ. They would send tractors deeper and deeper into the DMZ, encroaching on Syrian farmers’ land until the Syrians had little choice but to fire warning shots, they they would use that as an excuse for whatever. And, of course, that was how they were able to make the claims that Syria was firing from the Golan Heights on Kibbutzes in the area. A long time ago I read documentation from UN observers and Syrians on Israel’s constant provocation from UN observers, then after Moshe Dayan’s death it turned out he had documented it as well, and his daughter Yael gave to the news media to publish. It is a very, very typical Israeli provocation technique that goes back to Israel’s first days as a state and probably before that.

          1. “A link” to “prove” an entire decades-long history of provocation – how delightfully simplistic. As if everything can be contained within a link. Most of my information, by the way, comes not from “links”, but from more antiquated sources known as books, reports, newspaper articles, first-person eyewitness accounts, academic and other types of studies. It’s quaint, I know, but I’m old fashioned that way.

            In any case, here is a quote for you.

            “I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes [in the Golan] started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let’s talk about 80 percent. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized zone, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was.”—Moshe Dayan in a 1976 interview with Rami Tal as reported by Correspondent Serge Schmemann, New York Times, May 11, 1997.

            If I have time I can provide plenty of other documentation for this from a variety of sources, and dating before 1967.

          2. I don’t know of any links, but there are plenty of books and articles. Just two I would recommend: Alan Hart’s “Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews”, and Avi Schlaim’s “The Wall.” Both talk about Israel’s provocations of Syria, Egypt, and other so-called enemies.

            As Shirin suggests, it is too bad so few people read books anymore, and rely on such ephemera as the Internet, where not too much can be taken as credible.

        1. Shirin, please, please accept Richard’s offer to co-author here! 🙂

          Richard does the front page type work, you do the page two type in-depth type work, or something along those lines.

          Either way, it would be great to have access to your wealth of knowledge on this topic!

  9. “war with Iran is NOT on the table. Not now. No way, no how”

    The Iranians keep on putting war on the table. They continue to build their nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs with no defensive need, and tremendous history of hate towards Israel.

    1. No defensive need, my arse. They only have to look east and west for an educated opinion about defensive need.
      I’m waiting for someone to tell the Iranians they only need to reinstall the Shah to get rid of all their troubles.

  10. It is high time that Obama warns Israel in no uncertain terms that war with Iran is NOT on the table. Not now. No way, no how.

    Not sure he would want to do that. Obama seems to have taken on the “war president” mantle rather enthusiastically. After all, one of the very first things he did on the day he was sworn in was to sign off on a bunch of bombings in Pakistan, and he has generally widened and deepened U.S. military involvement by escalating in Afghanistan and Pakistan, bombing Yemen, sending special forces into Iran, staging a non-withdrawal “withdrawal” in Iraq, and making increasingly bellicose noises at Iran.

  11. The most tragic thing about Obama is the Nobel Peace Prize he received, while speaking for justification of wars during the Noble Prize ceremony. It’s an extremely shameful incident for the world at large.

    1. I have to agree with you that Obama receiving the Nobel Peace prize at all was a low point in the history of Nobel prizes of all kinds, and justifying war in his acceptance speech for the most revered PEACE prize in history was beyond appalling.

      1. Not to mention Obama hasn’t done a single thing but outlay a few plans and good ideas. The peace prize became the “crowd favorite” prize.

        1. Mostly what he has done is to utter a lot of pretty phrases without making good on a single one of them. On the contrary, his policies and actions for the most part belie his words.

          As for Iran, with each passing day the Obama administration with respect to Iran is looking, feeling, and smelling more and more like the Bush administration with respect to Iraq.

          Obama as a Nobel laureate is a sad, sick, pathetic joke. He had done nothing whatsoever to earn it when it was awarded to him, and he has done much to disqualify himself since receiving it, perhaps starting with that speech. Perhaps they should rename it the Nobel Warmakers Prize.

  12. It’s no surprise that if Israel would have initiated the firing, it would be criticized here, but since Lebanon screwed up this time, then this is a mere informational post, not criticism of them for risking starting a war.

    We know that Israel notified UNIFIL of it’s intentions to prune a tree, UNIFIL told the Lebanese army, the Lebanese asked for a delay (while they setup their ambush and invited reporters), and then when the Israelis started, the Lebanese opened fire in an unprovoked attack – with reporters filming too. No criticism here will be found.

    1. Could you please give us a link for your one-sided narration, other than the IDF spokeman, Mark Regev, and Zionist journalists from NYT. This is not exacly the way, ‘Le Monde’ or The Guardian’ tell the story.

      Do you always use a crane, passing through the neighbor’s garden or a public street when you prune a tree in your orchard ??

      I think that Gideo Levy is right: for years Israel has violated Lebanese territoriality, and for once they didn’t accept. Or maybe that was what the Israelis expected: now they have to launch a total war to teach the Arabs how to bow.

      And the rockets launched on the nearby Lebanese village , how does that fit into your storytelling ?? I guess Osama Ben Laden was hiding in a barn !

      1. The investigation isn’t over yet and you should wait to the full report. But that’s what the UN said so far. It agrees pretty much with what the Israelis say.

        “The U.N. peacekeeping force in south Lebanon, UNIFIL, confirmed Wednesday that Israel was cutting down trees only on the Israeli side, the force’s spokesman Lt. Naresh Bhatt said.” Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gCHfAWAy_fYeedrL-WswqiDnyzyQD9HCJGFG2 (AP).

        “Milos Strugar, UNIFIL’s senior political adviser said that the IDF had “informed UNIFIL that it was going to conduct maintenance works” on the border, adding that while the Israeli unit had been “on the northern side of the border fence,” it was nonetheless “south of the international borderline.” Source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/lebanon-we-fired-first-at-idf-unit-near-israel-border-1.305929 .

        “UNIFIL has established, however, that the trees being cut by the Israeli army are located south of the Blue Line on the Israeli side.” Source: http://www.un.org/News/ossg/hilites/hilites_arch_view.asp?HighID=1686 .

        1. Why have you conveniently omitted the fact that UNIFIL asked Israel not to do anything till it could work out a suitable compromise with the Lebanese. Instead Israel proceeded with the tree cutting.

          1. And the Lebanese Army has complained regularly about the UNIFIL serving Israeli interests in the area. They have been particularly critical of the Italian and the French UN soldiers. Since the election of both Berlusconi and Sarkozy, those two countries have developed their military collaboration with Israel.
            France being the former colonising power who established the communautarian political system in Lebanon, Sarkozy having close family and personal relations with Israel (Bibi has been his ‘best friend’ for years), Israel sending military experts to France to teach the French army how to put down the revolt in the ‘suburbian ghettos’. France earlier known for its ‘Arab politics’ has become Israel’s closest ally in Europe. The UNIFIL commander in the area is French, so, it makes me laugh or rather cry but we could always ask Judge Goldstone to make another report 🙂

          2. “Asserting the IDF’s claim that it had informed the Lebanese side of the planned border works, Strugar said that UNIFIL had received a message from the IDF “regarding these works, and we had passed that on to the Lebanese army.”” http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/lebanon-we-fired-first-at-idf-unit-near-israel-border-1.305929

            Looks like UNIFIL received a fair heads up and notified appropriately to the Lebanese. Sounds pretty much an OK set up for a cutting of a tree by Israelis on their side of the blue line. Doesn’t look like a situation that demands compromise.

          3. Wrong again & this is the THIRD time you’ve written the same thing. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS. You’re simply not describing the facts as they happened that day. YOu’re substituting yr own version of what you think happened for what media reports have clearly written.

            Consider this a warning. Repeat yrself again & you will be moderated.

          4. # Alice)
            Well, first of all, the Lebanese asked a postponement of the ‘trecutting’ and the Israeli went ahead without waiting for the UNIFIL to decide.

            Secondly, the Blue Line is disputed at various places (three, I think) along the Israeli-Lebanese border, and this is exactly one of the places.

            I suggest that you look at the photo that I posted earlier, showing how the Tsahal cuts a tree ‘on their side of the fence’. Well, as far as I can see, if the tree is on their side of the fence, and it probably is, the Israelis are on the other side of the fence !! If both sides of the fence are Israeli territory, why is there a fence ???
            http://actualite-israel.com/affrontement-a-la-frontiere-entre-le-liban-et-israel-74841/
            It’s photo number 2.

            By the way, the Tsahal was cutting the tree in order to put up a camera.

          5. “Mr. Le Roy said UNIFIL had determined that the tree uprooted by Israel, which caused the clashes between the warring sides near the southern Lebanese village of Adeisseh, was located south of the Blue Line inside Israel’s borders.” Source: http://www.un.org/News/briefings/docs//2010/100804_LeRoy.doc.htm

            Deïr Yassin. The fence you see in the picture you cite is not the blue line. Israel built the fence that you see south of the blue line. Don’t take my word for it. Reread the press releases by the UN and the comments by UN officials that I linked to above and in my other comment. Consult Google maps. Read around. Use your head. Most importantly, get over it. That’s an argument you just can’t win. If after all of that you still didn’t get it, don’t bother reselling me the idea that the fence you see in the picture is the blue line. I won’t respond to such an argument anymore.

            As for reservations, you are correct. Both Israel and Lebanon have reservations regarding the blue line. Indeed, the Lebanese have three reservations according to the UN document I give below. All three of them are on Sheba farms and the Hermon according to the document, unless I’ve missed something. Misgav-Am, where the incident occurred is nowhere near Sheba farms nor near the Hermon. Hence, as far as I can tell, there is no dispute as for the location of the blue line in the area of the incident. So unless I’ve missed something in the UN document, using these reservations regarding the Hermon and Sheba farms as an excuse for Lebanon seems like another bad argument of yours. If you think otherwise, read the rules of this blog and BRING SOURCES that support your claims. SHOW ME where the UN filed such reservations in the exact area of the incident once Israel withdrew in 2000 to the blue line. You know, it’s the time when both Lebanon and Israel, despite their reservations, agreed to respect the blue line. As before, I won’t respond to unsupported claims. Don’t waste your time on these.

            “The Lebanese Government advised that the line used for the purpose of confirming the withdrawal did not conform in three locations to the internationally recognized border with Israel. Concerning the Shab’a farmlands, both Lebanon and Syria state that this land belongs to Lebanon. Also, concerning the eastern part of the border between Syria and Lebanon, the report notes, Lebanon is insisting on Israeli withdrawal from all Lebanese territory in the Mount Hermon area.” Source: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2000/20000618.sc6878.doc.html

            Deïr Yassin said:

            “I suggest that you look …”

            Well then, as long as we’re in the mood of exchanging suggestions. I suggest you stop making unsound arguments. It does not advance your agenda.

          6. as far as I can tell, there is no dispute as for the location of the blue line in the area of the incident. So unless I’ve missed something

            You have. All major media reports on this story, at least the credible ones, point out that Lebanon has a dispute about the Blue Line in this zone & disputes that Israel has a right to the territory in which the tree is located. Why else do you think the Lebanese fired? Just for target practice?? HOnestly. I understand your wanting Israelis to be portrayed decently. But when you treat the Lebanese as if they’re any less decent, it betrays yr prejudices.

            I find this entire argument about where the Blue Line is & who fired on whom & who’s at fault for what to be more drier than a dead leaf in the summer sun. PLEASE let’s get off this & onto to something more useful & interesting. I reserve the right for any who wish to continue this line of argument to delete comments that bore me to tears. Sorry if it offends you, but I read every comment & if you insist on making my eyes glaze over by continuing along the same lines you may pay the price.

          7. Richard, with all due respect, where are the reservations of Lebanon regarding that point on the fence on the UN archives? I’ll settle for you showing a credible source that cites the UN that says that Lebanon has reservations regarding that point on the fence. I WANT TO BELIEVE. Bring sources. Show me what I have missed, don’t just tell me that. Honestly, isn’t it one of the rules of the comments to give sources to one’s claims? Be fair, c’mon.

          8. Not gonna do yr homework for ya, sorry. I read many stories about the incident & they make clear that the Lebanese contested the territory in question & that’s why they refused to agree to the tree pruning. Do a Google search rather than asking me to find sources you can find equally easily. The Lebanese refused BEFORE the firing began. Israel went ahead anyway.

            I WANT TO BELIEVE.

            First, I don’t believe you. Second, here’s what I do when I read something I’m not sure about but want to believe. I go to Google News & query something like “Lebanese disputed Misgav Am territory” or something like that. Then I look at what comes up, read it & judge for myself how credible it is. Can’t you do that yrself?

    2. Oh – yeah, and all those times Syria fired at Israel on the border of the Golan Heights were unprovoked too – oops, wait a minute. Moshe Dayan himself said that more than 80% of those incidents were responses to Israel’s deliberate and unrelenting provocation. Oh well.

  13. I hope Israel does not wait even to the end of the month. Israel should attack Iran now, and attack them hard. Their nukes pose an existential threat to Israel and are a danger to the whole world. And the advise to Obama should be to join on the attack.

    1. Eliel, I don’t know how to break this news to you, but not only does Israel not have any nukes, there is no real evidence they have any intention of having them. I know this news will break your heart, but you’ll get over it.

    2. You get the award for being the most tiresome & stupid hasbarist of the day, if not the week. Just reading your comments is a waste of any energy I might expend in doing so. I don’t yet have a comment rule barring stupidity, but I should.

  14. I am quite sorry for you that this time your beloved anti-Israeli terrorists did it so wrong and in front of the eyes of the world that you don’t find the smallest detail you can blame on Israel. That must be a hard time. Hezbollah took care that it would look otherwise and people would believe that Israel ‘crossed the border’. So it brought in all its islamist journalists and let them picture. Then it used the Muslim Indonesian UN-soldiers at the place to give some PR show, calling on Israelis to stop works on their side of the border, filming it as a ‘proof’.
    Nobody would mind that the Lebanese snipers that opened fire here were covered in a nearby house and were shooting on Israeli officiers at another place and everybody would understand the ‘reaction of the Lebanese army against a border violation by Israel’.
    Too bad that even the UN and US is not buying the stuff this time.
    The only choice that stays for anti-Israelites is to be quite, say nothing and wait for the next possible accusations against Israel. And so you do. You even go one step further and talk relavistically about ‘a war over a tree’, not a ‘lebanese attack over a tree’ that was even unjustified. Too hard to blame the other side for something, ha? Better put an abstract blame on ‘both sides’? You guys are just so hypocrit. You know in the 1920s and 1930s indeed the left wing guys fought for morals and for the truth against the right wing liers and conspirations, but today you guys fight the truth and the right wingers are keeping it up.

    1. I thought I banned you. I can’t even remember. But your blathering is offensive & a waste of space in this thread. I know it’s impossible to ask someone to become an intelligent human being. But really, must you commit the offenses against common decency you do just by publishing here??

      1. Yes, do what with reality frustrated leftist always do: BAN!
        That is your motto. Fight truth and BAN the voice that distrub your anti-Israeli dream world. You don’t feel uncomfortable to fight truth?
        To remember you: I was the one that was cursed and verbally insulted by your anti-Israeli ‘soldiers’ on your site… 😉 I never used names for you or your blog, just referred to what you are doing.

  15. Incredible, just incredible the amount of anti-Israeli venom on this list!
    Deir Yasin: NO! “We could [NOT] discuss ad vitam aeternam about who started, who’s wrong and who’s right, whether the three was within the buffer zone, south or north of the Blue Line.”
    The Lebanese Army has admitted that they opened (sniper) fire and UNIFIL has declared that the tree is within Israeli territory. What’s the point of having thousands of UNIFIL observers on the border if you won’t believe them anyhow?! (You would of course believe them if they put the blame on Israel).
    You people don’t care about FACTS at all. Facts do not exist for you unless they incriminate Israel. I really pity you for your total blindness!

  16. Some thoughts…

    If you look it at objectively, possession of nuclear weapons is in a novel kind of way something that largely results in peace. We saw with the Cold War that it was fear of the damage that could be wrought that prevented nuclear war. And, I think, if Iran were allowed to develop a nuclear weapon, then the world, kind of paradoixcally, could actually be a safer place.

    But that won’t happen. I suspect that the Israelis are itching to go at Iran now. People around Obama would probably like to, but he (and the US) are already well on the way to becoming a toothless tiger.

    A ground assault, exciting as it would be for anyone not placed in direct danger, is out of the question. All that could happen is an air attack, probably by Israel but maybe the US, against the major nuclear facilities like Natanz and Qom.

    I don’t think that poses too much of a danger to the Middle East because a lot of analysts discount the intense hatred that some Sunni Muslims have for Shi’ite Muslims. Saudi Arabia would love a strike on Iran, because they want to be the major Muslim power in the region and feel threatened by them – as both a Shia and mostly Persian (not Arab) country.

    The danger it does pose is to Israel, and the question of how Hizbollah and, to a lesser extent, Hamas, would react. If you read anything other than the bizarre Wikipedia article on the conflict, particularly a paper by the US Army Center for Lessons Learned, its clear that Israel did not anticipate such a response from Nasrallah. He managed to inflict more damage on the home front than anyone has since the 1970s, perhaps with the exception of Hamas’s terror wave in the early years of the last decade, but that took place over years, whereas Hizbollah attacked Israel for a month in a rather novel way for a paramilitary force.

    Though for the record, in spite of what it looks like, the tree is I think on the Israeli side of the border. The blue line doesn’t run directly down the fence, but mostly along the buffer zone in between. Confusingly, really, but then everything about the UNIFIL is confusing. They don’t really do anything except look kind of cool.

    In regards to the buffer zone in Gaza, I think most of the shots are from guns that are mounted onto the Erez Crossing wall and controlled remotely. Even if you check Bt’Selem though, which the Israeli right thinks is run by Hitler or something daft, you can see that most of the killed were Palestinian fighters trying to engage or kill the Israeli soldiers one way or another.

    Hopefully this is just an isolated incident, and the relative quiet on the border resumes.

  17. As far as i know, haaretz is considered as a reilaible enough source for this site, so i googled
    and found this nice link
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/lebanon-we-fired-first-at-idf-unit-near-israel-border-1.305929
    with this quote
    “Milos Strugar, UNIFIL’s senior political adviser said that the IDF had “informed UNIFIL that it was going to conduct maintenance works” on the border, adding that while the Israeli unit had been “on the northern side of the border fence,” it was nonetheless “south of the international borderline.”
    and this
    “”We deal with complaints on provocations of Lebanese soldiers against IDF units on a daily basis,” Strugar told Army Radio”

    so unless the unifil official is lying, or haaretz made up an interview with him – in this case i dont see how anyone can blame israel. The fact that israel has crossed the labnese borders hunderds of times in the past doesnt automaticly proves its also what happened at this time. Sorry to dissapoint you.

  18. Gene Schulman says:
    August 5, 2010 at 10:03 PM
    I don’t know of any links, but there are plenty of books and articles. Just two I would recommend: Alan Hart’s “Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews”, and Avi Schlaim’s “The Wall.” Both talk about Israel’s provocations of Syria, Egypt, and other so-called enemies.

    As Shirin suggests, it is too bad so few people read books anymore, and rely on such ephemera as the Internet, where not too much can be taken as credible.

    And books are credible by defenitoin, right?
    The old testament, the new testament, koran, writings of lenin and stalin, main kampf – those are only few books i can think of atm. are they all more reliable than the internet because they are books?
    Gene, for you zionism might be the real enemy of jews, so it might seem to you theres an absoulte credible truh in this book. For me – as someone who was born outside of israel, and whos family suffered more than enough from antisemitism (even after ww2) – zionism is a bless
    And why do u insist calling countries like syira “so-called enemies”? Do you really believe they are israels friends and wish this state long life and prosperity?

  19. And books are credible by defenitoin, right?

    No one has suggested that. However, books, among other sources, are critical to the development of real in-depth knowledge and understanding of a subject that “links” simply cannot provide.

    The old testament, the new testament, koran, writings of lenin and stalin, main kampf – those are only few books i can think of atm. are they all more reliable than the internet because they are books?

    Sigh!

    Study of the so-called Old Testament and New Testament in their historical and social context are critical to the development of knowledge and understanding of Judaism and Christianity. Study of the Qur’an in its historical and social context is critical to an understanding of Islam. No one who has not merely read, but studied these texts in the context of the times in and about which they are written can legitimately claim any level of expertise in the respective religions. You can’t get that from a series of links.

    The writings of Lenin and Stalin are critical to the development of knowledge and understanding of the views of these two men, the history of Russia and the Soviet Union, and the movement of which they were a critical element.

    Anyone who has not read and studied Mein Kampf cannot legitimately claim to know something about Hitler, the German Nazi party, or that period of European history.

    But hey, you just keep right on using links as your sole source of knowledge if you want. It’s not a problem for me. Quite the contrary, in fact.

    1. Shirin, what u wrote now and what was written earlier by Gene are two cmpletly different thing.
      He (she?) did write this “As Shirin suggests, it is too bad so few people read books anymore, and rely on such ephemera as the Internet, where not too much can be taken as credible.”, and its different froem what u write.
      When u suggest id read something moshe dayan said regarding provkoing syria its one thing (as he actually describes stuff he’d done himself), and when Gene suggest i read a book by someone who describes zionism from his point of view it is something else.
      Anyone who has not read and studied Mein kampf cannot claim to know something about hitler, but it doesnt mean anyone who has not read a book about hitler written by some mister whoever canont claim to know something about hitler – especially if such a book is written from a subjectiver point of view, and advocates certain beliefes and opionions of the writer on the subject.
      In the particular example he brought – its his subjective decision to treat Alan Hart as credible source – just like someone else might choose debka (as rediculous as it gets) – but it doesnt mean “zionism is the real enemy of jews” in an absolutle undeniable way. It only means alan hart thinks so, and makes his own subjective conclusions from his researches to support his point of view, and that Gene agrees with him.

      I dont use links as my sole source of knowledge, but its also not a problem for me u assume only some group of chosen here reads books.

    2. Thank you, Shirin, you make life so easy for me. I would add that even the “Protocols ….” is worth reading, if only to know why so many people are anti-Semitic.

      Y says: As for why I refer to them as “so-called enemies”, if you knew anything about the history of the founding of Israel, you would know that the Zionist enterprise made enemies of them. Again, I refer you to the books mentioned.

    3. Y says, I notice you write with a slight accent, and you earlier refer to the suffering of your family during WWII and after, from anti-Semitism. I assure you, in my comments to this post, it is not my intention to wound you, or anyone else. If I have, please accept my apologies.

      That said, I will tell you that I am old enough to have lived through WWII myself, and have lost members of family and friends, and I know from experience what anti-Semitism is. However, as Norman Finkelstein has pointed out many times, invoking the Holocaust as an argument for the defense of Israel’s current policies is a non-starter, if not a non sequitur. So, please save us from these tears, and address the issues. If you read more books, you might learn how the Zionists exploited the Holocaust and its victims, in order to create a political state at the expense of the indigenous Palestinians. Books are important. They can even be weapons.

      1. “Y says, I notice you write with a slight accent, and you earlier refer to the suffering of your family during WWII and after, from anti-Semitism. I assure you, in my comments to this post, it is not my intention to wound you, or anyone else. If I have, please accept my apologies.”
        I know, and i never intended to make you feel otherwise. I also apologise if i have, or if my responses sound rude or anything like that at times – as you noticed English is not my mother tounge, and i know i usually dont express myself too well in it..

        We’re going abit in circles here, so ill make this my last comment on this thread – at least on the books subject.
        I wasnt trying to use the holocaust as an arguement for israel, however it is obvious to me you cant just completly disconnect between antisemtism in europe and zionists motivation (at least ar first – at Herzl times) – something that people have been trying to do more than once on this forum. Of coruse, theres a huge gap between saying theres a need in jewish state (something i obviously believe in), and blaming anyone who criticizes it in antisemtims like some israeli leaders do.
        I also didnt say anything on the level of “books are useless”. Theres no need to convince me books are important. There is, however, something u must remember when u rely on them as sources of information, and as you urself said “They can even be weapons.”.
        I dont know what was the motivatoin of Alan Hart when he wrote the book u suggested i’d read, but judging by its name – i can guess its not exactly the most objective book on the history of judaism and zionism, just like the Protocols you mentioned arent (and no – im not comparing between the two), and i mentioned my personal experiences not because i think antisemtism / holocaust are excuses to everything israel’s ever done, but becase from my personal experience zionism is far from being jews real enemy, and with all the due respect to alan hart – its simply something that hes chosen to believe in, something that reflects his own believes, and like many other historical theories should be inspected and treated as such.
        Im aware that some people on this forum dont believe a jewish state should exist(i dont know if you are one of them), but as ive already mentioned so many times – for some of us our own lifetime experience was more than enough to prove there IS a need in such state, and i dont see how a book on the subject could convince me otherwise, and how can such book can be used a solid ground and evidence in arguement. Of course, maybe if my ancestors would have chosen to immigrate to usa 3-4 generations ago, and wouldnt have stayed in racist europe – my opinions could have been different today, but then again – usa was never ready to allow all the jews of the europe to immigrate (and if im wrong – you’re more than welcomed to correct me).

        1. Aha! Correction time. That is what most people who have been indoctrinated by Zionist propaganda believe. But, in fact, FDR had made a deal with Great Britain to allow 400,000 (more than were asking) European Jews to immigrate to both USA and GB. The Zionist lobby in both countries put a stop to that so those refugees would be obliged to go to Palestine (most, against their will). Not many people know that little secret, but it is well documented in books other than Hart’s. I will mention one other important book, written by a Holocaust surviver, and then I will stop: “The End of Judaism: An Ethical Tradition Betrayed”, by Hajo G. Meyer.

          1. I found out alan hart has his own site/blog.
            I read abit about his views and a chapter from his book.
            As i thought, he mostly provides his interpretation and believes and claims on the level of “what if”.
            For example, somewhere he wrote there couldnt have been holocause #2, because after ww2 the antisemitism died, and was awaken only because of zionism (not an exact quote, i know – but this is the idea). I dont know about holocaust #2, but i do know my family in the USSR was not far from experiencing something close to it, in the 1950’s (the doctor’s plot). Also, as many others he assumes, for some reason, that the palestinians wish to live in a secular state of all of its people, and this is more of a thing people want to believe in than a solid fact.

            Anyway, ill try to look up/read more about what u wrote to me on the subject of jewish immigration possiblites before/during ww2.

            shabat shalom..

  20. Such a fierce argument that I expect some of you to round on yourselves at any moment!

    This isn’t to do with Iran and Nuclear Weapons: it is to do with natural gas fields in Lebanese and Cypriot waters which Israel would like to share.

    Thing is, Israel keeps saying it would like Lebanon to be a properly functioning state, capable of controlling its own territory. (Ie: kicking the Syrians out and keeping them out.)

    A revenue stream from a gas field could help realize the
    objective of a self-governing, non-aligned Lebanon, and restore Lebanon to the prosperous and cosmopolitan country it used to be. That would reduce Syrian and Iranian influence faster than bullying ever could!

    Trying to grab it from them, or using it to blackmail them into becoming an Israeli puppet state, would be a crowning case of Israel cutting off its nose to spite its face.

    Since everyone is linking this incident for Iran, and this baffles Medawar, one observation about Iran and nuclear weapons: when the Soviet Regime collapsed, it wasn’t the ex-Soviet nuclear scientists that the Iranians made overtures to: it was the underwater warfare experts and the clandestine dolphin-trainers.

    If I was the IDF, I’d make sure that the Israeli submarine in the Arabian Gulf was withdrawn before it gets taken, which would be a thousand times worse, politically, than it being sunk. Submarines need deep water for safety and the Gulf doesn’t have any.

  21. Please, read this article:
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-israel-demands-discharge-of-lebanese-company-commander-1.306507

    I find it remarkable that Israel exerts such demands when its soldiers humiliate, terrorize and even kill on a daily basis.

    Israel has made incursions into the Lebanese border thousands of times since 2006. IDF humiliate Palestinians on a daily basis. It’s well documented. When Lebanese military one time assert their right to defense, the IDF cannot tolerate it. They also required the US and France to end the small weapon deliveries and supplies they have given to Lebanon’s army.

    I would greatly appreciate if posters here could help me to gain some insight into the Israeli mentality, please.

  22. Richard you need to be precise what you mean. If you say it is DMZ than I am arguing it is not.

    There is a zone between the two sides into which neither side ventures without notifying the other & UNIFIL. You can call it anything you like. I called it a demilitarized zone. I don’t care what you call it. But the plain truth is that there is not a single border line observed in present circumstances except on paper & in theory. There is a zone that separates the sides.

    You still haven’t provided me the source that confirms that this is DMZ or buffer zone (both your words) in which both have agreed. All I have is your word, and frankly your “plain truth” is not good enough.

    Why didn’t UN say or mention in their reports anything about any “buffer zone” untill this day. If you have that on record then please show me. When 50 people crossed the blue line and cut the israeli border fence, israelis didn’t shoot a single warning shot. no notification from LAF or UN to Israelis.

    “Lebanon last week accused Israel of crossing the Blue Line, which was initially demarcated to correspond with the line of Israeli military withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000.

    But the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), which is in charge along the Lebanese army to monitor the borders, said that no violation of Lebanese territory had occurred.

    The Israeli patrol had only crossed an Israeli technical fence, according to UNIFIL spokesperson Andrea Tenenti.

    Israel has erected a technical fence north of the Blue Line, which southern residents often confuse for the Blue Line, a UN source said.

    According to the source, “sometimes people think that the fence is the border, which ot is not, and this when we have confusion among the villagers.

    “Israel is technically and legally not violating Lebanese territory when they cross that fence and reach the Blue Line,” the source said.

    http://en.trend.az/news/arisc/1671285.html

    As you can see this border incident happened this April 2010.

    The UN confirmed that when you are inside blue line and border fence:

    “Israel is technically and legally not violating Lebanese territory when they cross that fence and reach the Blue Line”.

    I take the UN’s word.

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