Walid Shoebat: from Palestinian Terrorist to Lover of Zion??
Back in the 1980s, the IDF felt it needed to create a counterbalance to the strength of Fatah in the Territories so it created the hated (by Palestinians) Village Leagues (for more on this read this Counterpunch article) a group of quiescent Palestinian sheiks and local leaders ready to shill for the Israelis. In return, the IDF showered on these quislings a whole host of benefits and favors. The Leagues were a grand failure and it was in response to this failure that the IDF turned to Islamic fundamentalists as a buffer against Arafat’s secular movement. And presto–Hamas was born (doesn’t it remind you of how the U.S. sought to create a buffer to the Soviets in Afghanistan by encouraging Islamic militants who in turn became Al Qaeda–our own worst enemy?). For more on the birth of Hamas through Israel’s collusion read the Counterpunch article linked above.
Seattle Jewish Transcript ad for Shoebat speaking engagement: how lurid can you get??
Apparently, Christian Zionists too are on the prowl for Palestinians they can convert to fundamentalist Christianity. And they’ve found a small group of turncoat oddities like Shoebat who are happy to do their bidding. This week’s Seattle Jewish Transcript contains an ad for a talk by Walid Shoebat at the University of Washington Hillel on February 8th. The Jewish community too has been hoodwinked into believing that these sad individuals represent some kind of trend among Palestinians and Muslim to finally ‘see the light’ and accept not only Israel’s right to exist, but also to admit the ‘failures’ of Palestinian nationalism.
Walid Shoebat–from Palestinian terrorist to Zionist?
Shoebat’s Media Campaign
Will Youmans’ Counterpunch essay, Deal with the Devil: A Palestinian Zionist and the End of the World (I am shocked that no other progressive publication has devoted any ink to unmasking this guy, but I’m grateful that Youmans has done so much good work on this topic and much of this post relies on his journalism), outlines Shoebat’s background and how he has manipulated some in the media:
Walid Shoebat, from Beit Sahour, in the West Bank, is paraded by pro-Israeli organizations on speaking tours, in articles, and radio and TV interviews. An article in Jewish Week announces the secret of his magic: “a former terrorist repents and discusses his metamorphosis on six-city speaking tour.” Articles on BBC’s website, as well as pro-Israeli organs such as WorldNetDaily and FrontPageMag depict Shoebat on his own terms, as an ex-terrorist now fully supportive of Israel. In Arlene Pecks’ words, he went “from terrorist to zionist.”
Shoebat and his comrades remind me of Greystoke, the film about the British explorer who (if memory serves) captures an African “savage” and returns him to Europe to amuse his social circle. After teaching him table manners and proper etiquette, he brings him before a public hungry for titillation, amusement and novelty. The savage is a roaring success. He has been “tamed” and “improved” and taught the proper ways of a 19th century gentleman. But will it bring him happiness? Does it prove the superiority of European culture to African? Of course not.
Walid Shoebat is an aberration. He represents nothing except a man looking for a community to take him in and make him feel welcome after he left the Mideast and settled in America. Apparently, his third wife (in ten years) helped convert him to Christianity by daring him to “find a mistake in the Bible” (whatever that means). When he couldn’t (so the story goes), he converted. Here’s how Shoebat’s website bio describes this incident:
In 1993, Walid studied the Tanach (Jewish Bible) in a challenge to convert his wife to Islam. Six months later, after intense study, Walid realized that everything he had been taught about Jews was a lie. Convinced he was on the side of evil, he became an advocate for his former enemy.
No doubt, his conversion was facilitated by Christian evangelicals who took him in (literally and figuratively). But turning against his past and his people does not make him an exemplar. It makes him a curiosity. The six-fingered man on display at the circus does not prove that all humanity will shortly add another digit to their appendages. He merely proves that there are weird aberrations of human biology. So Walid Shoebat and his conversion does not prove the supremacy of Christianity over Islam or the supremacy of Israel’s claims over the Palestinians’.
Shoebat the Terrorist
Will Youmans outlines Shoebat’s crimes against Israel:
He describes openly his past crimes and his jailing by the Israeli authorities. He admits to stoning Jewish worshipers at the Kotel (the western wall), having “worked with Fatah bomb makers in Jerusalem,” and even going on a bombing mission to destroy a branch of Bank Leumi. Shoebat abandoned it after noticing that Palestinian children were nearby. He speaks of the time he and other rioters mauled an Israeli officer. They “clubbed and pounded his head with a nail-studded stick, until the officer became a bloody gore.”
After immigrating to the United States, he continued to be a “hard-line PLO activist.” He raised funds and recruited for the PLO on college campuses.
Attempts by Christian Zionists like Pat Robertson and their Jewish stooges like Dennis Prager to proclaim a victory in converting Shoebat from his supposedly terrorist past and Muslim religion are pathetically misguided. As Youmans writes in Counterpunch:
Shoebat represents the ominous collusion between Christian fundamentalists and supporters of Israel; a recipe for disaster…His talks demonize Palestinians and Islam in the kind of language that only affirms the pro-Israeli community’s more ignorant misconceptions. He talks about the inherent hate of Islam, being taught to oppose violently Jews and Israel, and the eternal Jewish right to the land. None of his points give audiences the slightest perspective into the movements for peace among Palestinians, nor the substance of their claims against a state that occupies and controls their daily lives.
His goals are deadly. Clearly, he seeks to further polarize Palestinians and Jews with his extremist positions. As with the overall influence of Christian fundamentalism [on the conflict], his theological tenets make reconciliation less likely. Peace forestalls the End of Times, which some Christian fundamentalists look forward to enthusiastically. His personal and religious stake is in helping speed along Armageddon. I fear that in their ideological zeal to defend Israel against criticism, American Zionists are making a deal with the devil.
In this article, Youmans raises another fascinating point: if indeed Shoebat is guilty of the crimes he claims for himself, then why has the Department of Homeland Security not moved to deport him? Countless Muslims in this country have been arrested, prosecuted and imprisoned for “crimes” which injured no one. Shoebat claims to have targeted Israelis with deadly force and indeed spent time in an Israeli prison. How did such a person get entry into this country? And once our government found out about his checkered past, why did we not move to bar him? This is a case of selective treatment and favoritism. As Youmans says, imagine a Palestinian nationalist (even one who converted from Islam to Christianity) who comes to this country preaching resistance to the Israeli occupation. Would our government have welcomed this person as readily as Shoebat?
Shoebat the ‘Zionist’
Again from Youmans:
Taking the word of the Bible as literal, he subscribed to the view that “the Jews have the Biblical right to the Holy Land, Israel.” In his public campaign he not only defends Israel across the board, on every account, but espouses positions widely held as extreme. For instance, he told a crowd at the University of Toronto that Israel should “Please take back the holy Temple Mount” despite the obvious implication that such a total measure against a Muslim holy site would provoke a holy war.
A review of his website, Abrahamic-Faith.com, reveals the roots of his views. His ultimate expectation is that Jewish control of Israel-Palestine is essential for Armageddon. Then, Rapture will come. The Messiah will destroy the enemies of Israel, but the “many countries who confess Jesus as their saviour will be amongst God’s people, called as his people, and will all [including Jews] personally know the Lord Jesus Christ.” In short, the Jews will be forced to accept Christ or perish in hell, a deeply and traditionally anti-Semitic view.
Some would expect that a warm embrace of a religiously extreme anti-Semite by pro-Israeli groups would be embarrassing. However, leading advocates of Israel’s… policies welcome this arrangement given the power of Christian fundamentalism in the American polity. Abraham Foxman, National Director of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), said that American Jews should be “highly appreciative of the incredible support” from such religionists, even if their support looks forward to the vast conversion or eternal damnation of all Jews. Their views, he reasoned, “speak to an unknown future (indeed one that Jews do not envision).” He also argued that ADL polls show that Christian fundamentalists harbor no more anti-Semitism than the American population at-large. The one area of concern he shared was with Evangelical efforts to convert Jews.
So Christian fundamentalists are allies of convenience for those like Foxman. Despite the fact that evangelicals only embrace Israel for the sake of a vision of a triumphalist future in which Christians subsume Jews into their fold, we need these people says Foxman. This type of moral temporizing disgusts me. It’s certainly not as severe as the views of right-wing Zionists and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who embraced Hitler because he was the arch-enemy of the colonial occupier, Britain. But the analogy is a little too close for comfort if you ask me.
Here are a few other sites directly associated with Shoebat or which advance his cause:
Arabs for Israel
Walid Shoebat: From Love to Hate
36 thoughts on “Walid Shoebat: from Palestinian Terrorist to Lover of Zion?? – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم”
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.
Walid was not taken in by Evangelical Christians. He never even discussed Christianity until after he studied the Bible. He was totally self taught.
You are meant to be Jews who love Israel yet you discredit a man who now loves Israel. Tikun is about improving the world. You just twist this to be Israel bashers.
Mr. Shoebat is not any trend. He says quite honestly that he is an aberration and that in ten years he has not converted one Arab to love Israel. It is you the sicko way out leftest Jews who hate Israel and love terrorists who give the world an excuse to murder Jews. None of the people who comment have ever heard a full address of Mr. Shoebat. One of you sickos should listen to one of his full addresses and then comment
As regards to the Counterpunch argument and double standards. Walid is an American Passport holder and citizen of Ameirca. His crimes were committed in Israel and Walid would be perfectly willing to make amends to the Israeli people if required by their laws.
Looks like the Christian Zionist lobby has found us out. Any supporter of Israel who reads Keith Davies comment will perhaps understand a bit better why making league with the evangelical movement is a pact with the devil. Keith here would have me written out of the Jewish people when he isn’t even a member himself. Isn’t it great when people outside your own faith try to set the rules for those within the faith?
I find it truly repulsive that you [Keith], who are not Jewish, believes you have a right to call me an “Israel basher.” I love Israel & you have NO RIGHT to say otherwise. Israel is the land of MY PEOPLE (not yours). So don’t you dare tell me how to love Israel! I just don’t share your vision of what Israel is or should be. You know nothing about my views of Israel and if you read my blog more deeply you might learn something about a nuanced view of Israel & Zionism that is not all black & white as is your own view.
Someone who uses the word “sicko” to describe me is beneath contempt. And I DO NOT “love terrorists” & you haven’t even read enough of my blog to say otherwise. I find you vile beyond words. Instead of engaging in a battle of ideas you resort to sleazy insults. That only reveals the poverty of yr. own beliefs.
As for your ridiculous argument that because Shoebat is an American citizen that the U.S. government has no right to take action against him, I would ask whether he made his crimes & activities in the Territories fully known to INS officials when he applied for citizenship. If he was not truthful or neglected to mention this then this might be grounds for revoking his citizenship. And if he WAS truthful and was granted citizenship anyway, then those INS officials who worked on his case were incompetent (or they were told to approve his case by higher ups) and should be disciplined.
Wrong, I am 100% Jewish. My ancestor was Bal Shemtov who was a direct decendent of King David which makes me also King David’s decendent. My Hebrew Name is Kalman David Ben Yisrael. which means Gracious David Son of Israel.
Hashem will punish you people for smearing Israel and lieing about your own kin.
May Hashem forgive you but I shall not as long as you continue to lie.
“Kalman” is about as Jewish as I am Buddhist (which is not at all). No Jew would feel obligated to tell the world “my ancestor was the Bal Shemtov who was a direct descendant of King David.” We Jews know who we are & where we come from & don’t need to remind anyone about it.
In a personal e mail to me “Kalman” called the Baal Shem Tov, “Baal Shamtov.” Here he calls him “Bal Shemtov.” That’s a little bit closer to being accurate but still not quite right yet. If I was a direct descendant of someone I’d sure want to know how to spell his name correctly, wouldn’t you?
I know Keith Davies personally as well as Walid Shoebat. He attends synagogue and is quite an active member in the Jewish community.
Also, it seems that you guys make statements concerning people without even knowing them.
This should descredit you.
I suggest you be a little more objective when people take courage and speak out against terrorism. Walid Shoebat did. I am still wondering what your article here if anything can benifit anyone? Who does this benefit?
Can you find something better to do with your time?
Ms. Andrea, you left a fake e mail address. How pathetic. You want to leave comments at my blog but you don’t want anyone to be able to communicate with you. What are you afraid of–you might have to listen to someone who you disagree with? It’s a tough life isn’t it?
If Keith Davies is Jewish, what synagogue does he belong to & in which city? And are we talking about a JEWISH synagogue or a Messianic Judaism (Jews for Jesus) synagogue? I’m not asking because I want to pry into his personal life. I merely want to ascertain whether he’s telling the truth about his background.
You might want to learn how to spell the word “discredit.”
I don’t need to justify my blog or myself to you, nor must I explain who or how it benefits you or anyone else. Let’s just say you’re in the very small minority of commenters in proclaiming my blog to be of no or little benefit to anyone.
My blog is very important to me & you have an outrageous amt. of chutzpa to ask whether I don’t have anything better to do with my time. What after all are you doing with yours that makes you so superior?
Lets analyze the statements by Youmans
Shoebat represents the ominous collusion between Christian fundamentalists and supporters of Israel; a recipe for disaster…
Although Youmans, Richard Silverstein and I are not Christian fundamentalists the fact that we do not agree with many of their beliefs does not mean that we should conclude that all their beliefs are wrong and that all they do is wrong. The majority of the world is against Israel because of the success of Arab propaganda and because of their need to keep Arab oil flowing. Bat Ye’or in her book Eurabia argues that another motive in the case of Europe is to form a European-Arab alliance to counter the influence of the United States. Apparently frustrated countries like that see the Arabs as key to their regaining their glory from the days of Napoleon. If Israel can find allies that support her she should accept them with open arms and not reject them because of differences in beliefs. Rejecting the few friends Israel has is the true recipe for disaster.
His talks demonize Palestinians and Islam in the kind of language that only affirms the pro-Israeli community’s more ignorant misconceptions.
On the contrary, he speaks the truth about Islam. Few are willing to face the truth about Islam. Islam is a religion that preaches intolerance. Should we be tolerant of the intolerant? If we are we will succumb to the influx of intolerant immigrants and become an intolerant country.
He talks about the inherent hate of Islam, being taught to oppose violently Jews and Israel, and the eternal Jewish right to the land. None of his points give audiences the slightest perspective into the movements for peace among Palestinians, nor the substance of their claims against a state that occupies and controls their daily lives.
The Palestinians claim to want peace in English to get Western support for their cause but in Arabic they preach hatred. Israel granted autonomy to the Palestinians back in the time of Moshe Dayan which it turns out was a big mistake because they used that autonomy to preach hatred of Israel.
His goals are deadly. Clearly, he seeks to further polarize Palestinians and Jews with his extremist positions.
Walid Shoebat’s goals are to get us all to face reality. That is the only way to stop the deadly Palestinian terrorist acts and the necessary self defensive reprisals by Israel
As with the overall influence of Christian fundamentalism [on the conflict], his theological tenets make reconciliation less likely. Peace forestalls the End of Times, which some Christian fundamentalists look forward to enthusiastically. His personal and religious stake is in helping speed along Armageddon. I fear that in their ideological zeal to defend Israel against criticism, American Zionists are making a deal with the devil.
Walid Shoebat wants peace. The accusation that Christian fundamentalists want war in order to speed Armageddon is slander. Painting Christians as fanatics who want war and Muslims as peace loving people is propaganda that turns reality upside down.
The Devil speaks through Youmans and Richard Silverstein
Karl, Karl…let me but count the ways in which you err…
“The majority of the world is against Israel because of the success of Arab propaganda and because of their need to keep Arab oil flowing.” You delight me in the profusion of your delusions regarding the conflict. Of course, it couldn’t be possible that “the majority of the world is against Israel” because of its illegal Occupation of the West Bank & brutal oppression of the Palestinians? NO, certainly not in Karl’s comfortable world. And, it’s amazing the ideological flexibility of oil in political debate. Both the anti-Zionist left and hard right (here in Steve’s case) abuse the issue of oil to bolster their conspiracy theories about the ME conflict. Oil has next to nothing to do with the world being against Israel. And I know of no reputable ME analyst or scholar who believes this.
Don’t you just love it when the representatives of a right-wing or evangelical perspective claim to know “the truth about Islam” (as Karl here claims). As soon as I hear that phrase I know that what they claim as the “truth” represents nothing more than their own religious bigotry and complete misunderstanding of Islam. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Walid Shoebat & Karl Erickson “know the truth” about Islam! Yeah, sure.
Islam is not the only religion that is intolerant. Christianity basically patented virulent anti-Semitism and systematic extermination as a form of intolerance going back to the Crusades (in which large German Jewish communities were wiped out by rampaging Crusaders on their way to “rescue” the Holy Land from those pesky intolerant Muslim heathen), the auto da fe of the Spanish Inquisition, the Cossack pillaging of Ukrainian Jewish communities, and the Christian blood libel in early 20th century Russia which to Jewish martyrdom at the hands of their Christian neighbors.
Sorry, Karl but if I had to put my money on the worst of the intolerant among the world’s religions I’d have to go with Christianity (here I include Protestantism & Roman Catholicism since they both participated in anti-Semitism & intolerance through the ages).
“The Palestinians claim to want peace in English to get Western support for their cause but in Arabic they preach hatred.” Blah, blah, blah. Karl, this old saw is no nauseatingly old & tired and just plain wrong that it annoys me that I have to rebut it yet again here. You clearly haven’t bothered to read the many instances here in this blog where I have publicized Palestinian statements both in English & Arabic which embrace the peace process. Karl, you’re also so woefully out of touch with current political developments that I can’t begin to correct your misapprehensions. Do you read any newspaper which reports intelligently on the I-P conflict? I dobut it. If you had, you wouldn’t make such pitifully stupid statements.
“The accusation that Christian fundamentalists want war in order to speed Armageddon is slander.” Karl, Karl–again with the misstatements. Youmans points you specifically to Christian evangelical websites which say directly what you claim they don’t. And even if you don’t trust Youmans’ links, if you did a cursory Google search on terms like Armageddon-Israel or End of Days-Israel you’d find out how wrong you are. Do a little research next time before you spout off.
Ooooohhhh! The devil speaks through me! Spooky! And you know what, I’ve just sprouted horns on my head too (remember that other delicious Christian anti-Jewish canard?)! So, Karl what was it you were saying about religious intolerance?? Seems you need to teach yourself a lesson by applying your own principles to your own mouth (or pen). When I read idiocy like this it makes me so happy I was born Jewish. While we too have a concept of Satan, it is nowhere near as creepy and all-pervasive as it seems to be in Christianity. The notion that the devil “speaks through” someone else or that the devil can assume someone’s form is not normative in Judaism & I for one am grateful for that.
Karl, you’re welcome to your misbegotten ideas whereever you picked them up either in religious school or some other forum.
I’ve known Walid for nearly ten years. He’s a good person, changed by the faith that has brought him hope where his past life and past culture, brought him violence, hate, and emptiness. He’s risen up to trumpet that delta and perhaps it will somehow be heard and perhaps even make a positive difference.
He speaks from experience of how the PLO has enamored the media with a façade, a lie. The Palestinian leaders and their Arab cohorts don’t want peace-at-any-cost, like Israel has so many times earnestly attempted. But instead, they want Israel pushed into the sea, and that they want at any cost, whether by lying, killing, or even pretending they want peace.
If it is evil to call a clear sunny sky blue, then Walid’s evil, misguided, and the Jew’s promoting him are the same. But if not, well then….
Ah, this is but just one more person’s opinion in a very passionate topic in a blog, but I’ll say it anyway, peace for Israel and all its neighbors! Israel has certainly paid its dues. I pray peace comes (which so many of us want), and it comes sooner than later, both outside and inside the people involved in this conflict, either Jew, or Arab.
Thanks for sharing these previous entries, and for listening, and G-d bless whether you ignore, agree, or disagree with me.
Ah, another missive from the Walid Shoebat Fan Club! How nice to know that you’re so active in supporting your Palestinian show pony star.
First, lets get a few corrections out of the way. There is no PLO. I do so like it when people get their facts right.
“Those bad old Arabs want Israel pushed into the sea.” Where do you get this stuff–from old Israeli newsreels?” There’s as much danger of Palestinians pushing Israel into the sea as there is that a pig can jump through the eye of a needle. So sit back & relax, it ain’t gonna happen.
Your knowledge of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; your knowledge of Palestinians is completely non-existent. I wish you’d stick to espousing your faith (whose theology I hope you understand better than the Mideast conflict) & stay away from the complicated stuff. It seems to tax your brain too much.
And your racist hatred of Arabs & Islam is appalling. What do you know about Islam? What you’ve been told by Pat Robertson & his ilk? Have you ever read a serious work about the religion (not an evangelical screed)? Have you ever met a devout Muslim? No, of course you haven’t. Your attitudes toward Muslims come pre-packaged at the evangelical Burger King school of religion.
Please don’t waste your God on me. I want no part of him or her. I’ll keep my old Yahweh, the Jewish God I know & love. And I can’t say that my God would want to bless you since he doesn’t approve of people who hate His children (& Muslims are His children as well as Jews, Chrisitians, etc.)
Richard Silverstein’s religion of Muslim worship is far more dangerous than any religion other then fundamentalist Islam. He is a true believer which means events no matter how obviously they contradict his belief make him believe even more. September 11th is just proof to him that the Israelis are bad, a belief he believed all along. It never occurs to him that the real occupation of Israel is by fundamentalist Muslims who would like nothing better than to slit his throat. For those of you who are not deluded here are some direct quotes from the Koran.
[edited for the sake of avoiding excessive tedium…]
Walid Shoebat reminds me of the leaders of the South African bantustans during the apartheid era. Servile and unctuous, always ready to please their handlers in Pretoria, they were on occasion trotted out to extol the virtues of ‘separate development’ before gullible journalists and visiting politicians. However, their days are over and they have been assigned to the garbage heap of history. I foresee the same fate for Mr. Shoebat
Walid Shoebat is not the only arab who supports Israels right to exist. Sheikh Professor Abdul Hadi Palazzi is Secretary-General of the Italian Muslim Association. In 1987 Palazzi became an Imam and Sheikh, receiving the equivalent of a doctorate in Islamic theology from representative of Chief Mufti of Saudi Arabia. In 1989 he became the Secretary General of the Italian Muslim Assotiation. This man strongly supports Israels right to exist. He personally sent a telegram to Sharon congratulating him on killing Sheik Ahmed Yassin. He aslo advocated that Israel should kill Yasser Arafat.
[edited to remove personal insults…]
Ah, Jan has found a second Arab who holds aberrant views about Palestinian nationalism and is an Israel sycophant. Now he’s proven conclusively that Walid Shoebat has company in that department. What’s more this is surely a groundswell of proof that the Arabs are coming Israel’s way in accepting the Occupation and trampling of Palestinian rights.
You’ll note that Jan does not provide any source for his background information about this individual and his alleged statements. And what is the Italian Muslim Association? Does it have 1 member? Who does it represent? In the excised portion of his comment above he expressed doubt that I exist & proposed that this blog was fabricated by Arabs or some such drivel. Might I posit that the good Palazzi might not exist himself or that if he does he’s a fraud to himself, Muslims and Arabs?
UPDATE: It appears that the good imam does indeed exist. A short Google search turned up this delightfully insightful portrayal of the ‘wonderful’ life enjoyed by Israel’s Arab minority:
Gee, I bet it’s news to real Israeli Arabs that they enjoy a “privileged position.” And how ’bout “the positive way that Israel treats them?” That’ll really be news to them living as they do in towns and villages that receive mere pittances in government funding compared to their comparatively wealthy neighboring Jewish communities.
And further warning: gratuitous personal insults will earn you permanent banning from the comments section of this blog (as it has poor Jan). I don’t mind anyone disagreeing with my views. But if you go farther you run the risk of banishment.
The members of the Walid Shoebat fanclub remind me of the apologists for the Apartheid regime. Seemingly unaware of the fact that they are willing supporters and sometimes actors in a particularly egregious crime against humanity, they take particular pride in their association with and support of this “impimpi” (the isiXhosa word for traitor, although I prefer the term “inyuhagi”, meaning a skunk or polecat).
Just as the supporters of Apartheid would point with pride to political cyphers such as Matanzima (the president of the Transkei bantustan) or Mangope (the president of the Bophuthatswana bantustan), and assert that the existence of such characters somehow lends credibility to their regime, which, amongst other things, forcibly removed 3 million black South Africans from their homes (to create the very bantustans ruled over by Matanzima and Mangope), engaged in the assassination of political opponents and placed troops in the townships.
Walid Shoebat, like the lackeys of Apartheid, is an opportunist of the purest water. To promote such a mediocrity, such a spineless worm, as a spokesperson for the Zionist regime, is a clear indication of the political bankruptcy of Zionism.
I am deeply grateful to Richard Silverstein for helping me answer a question about Walid Shoebat. The obvious question is whether Mr. Shoebat is, as he represents himself or is he engaged in some type of deception? Even if one is totally unfamiliar with Mr. Shoebat Mr. Silverstein does an excellent job of providing the answer. But the answer is NOT what Silverstein intends. If one maintains a calm objectivity it is clear that Mr. Silversteing needs to employ insults, invective, sarcasm and the like as evidence and proof of his position. I leave it to intelligent readers to draw their own conclusions.
Bert’s spouting disingenuous drivel. His mind was made up about Shoebat long before he got here. To say that he needed my “saracsm” to make up his mind that Walid is a swell guy is just plain narischkeit (“foolishness”).
I only use invective and insults when I feel someone deserves it and believe me Shoebat and his supporters like Bert here deserve every bit of sarcasm slung at them. Why? Because his campaign is based on the fraudulent and insulting proposition that there are “good,” pliant Muslims and that if only there were more of them, then Israel might finally find a real partner for peace.
I stumbled across this when I was researching Israel-Hating Will Younis.
I am not at all surprised at finding this Israel-hating article in Tikkun Olam. After all, Rabbi Lerner supports hurting Israel through divestiture and what ever other means he can think of.
Tikkun also had an article that gave credence to the totally absurd idea that the devastating Tsunami was cause by taking oil from the earth. He also claimed that we have done nothing about pollution by cars when their emissions have been reduced by 99%. Some cars even produce exhaust that is cleaner than the air they take in.
I only note these things to show how divorced from reality Tikkun Olam is.
Rabbi Lerner’s reaction to being prevented from speaking at Jew-Hating Ramsey Clark’s anti-war (but pro-terrorist war) was to become even more Israel hating.
The trolls seems to be out in force. I can go several months at a time w/o getting any comments on this post and then I’ll get 3 or 4 Shoebat partisans commenting on the same day or same week (I’ve already moderated one abusive comment today). What a coincidence.
Oh the morons we have to deal w. here sometimes. First, I don’t hate Israel and neither does Michael Lerner. But I do despise Walid Shoebat and everything he represents along w. his apologists (that’d be you, buddy). There is a difference between the two (hating Israel and despising Shoebat) though I wouldn’t expect you’d be nuanced or sophisticated enough to understand as your understanding of the Mideast conflict is about as inert as a rock.
And I don’t know why you conflate my blog with Michael Lerner’s Tikkun Magazine unless you’re too ignorant to realize that they are two entirely separate entities having nothing to do with ea. other.
I do so much love Christians (you are one aren’t you?) who have the inside dope on who is a good Jew & who is a bad one. And who knows more about Israel–a Jew who has lived there for two years, speaks Hebrew, reads the Israeli press every day, & writes about Israel every day; or Jan Mel Poller? What are yr credentials?
This is a terrorist supporting site. Sites that call a terrorist who turns into a peacemaker a “turncoat” speak for themselves. Read the original BBC article about this man here – http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3430077.stm
Another quisling-lover come to spout off. Lord love ’em.
And moron, just because I detest Shoebat & you & everything you stand for doesn’t mean I support terror. You haven’t even spent more than a few seconds at this site to know what I believe about terror. So shut yr mouth until you have.
I do hope people will visit the shameless puffery that is the BBC profile. Shoebat is hardly a ‘peacemaker.’ He is a pawn in a Christian Zionist/hardline pro-Israel campaign to besmirch Islam and show that there are a few aberrant former Muslims who wish to champion Israeli supremacism in the Holy Land.
The BBC article mentions nothing about Shoebat’s actual views of the political situation. The fact that one of his pro-Israel supporters trumpets that he went from “terrorist to Zionist” tells you pretty much all you need to know about his views. Yet you won’t find any of that in the BBC puff piece. For shame on an otherwise trustworthy & reliable international media source.
The fundemental pressure that feeds this conflict between the Palestinians and Israelis is not religion but land. Muslims regard themselves, Christians and Jews as all being children of the Book but think that what has been revealed to them by the prophet is the updated version of God’s plan for mankind. Judeo-Christian tradition has required the faithful to love their neighbour/enemy as they would themselves, a task more often honoured in the breach than in the observance. In theory, according to religious benchmarks, we should all be getting along quite famously at this point in time. Instead the real pressure is the one exerted by questions over a surprisingly small section of the earth’s surface. Israel/Palestine; who owns it, who has the better claim on it, who controls it now and who should control it in the future. Land has ever been a primary consideration for many disparate groups long before religion came upon the scene. Today this conflict in the Middle East could be said to be almost genetic in its origins and duration, just one more painful genuflection to the territorial imperative.
If we are ever to resolve the matter, we need to allow for this and other factors. Feelings, memories, insults, grievences and wrongs need to be addressed, to be diluted by time, to respond to them and to events without recourse to the sword on every occasion. We know that land has always been the pivotal point of contention here. Shouldn’t we therefore try to reverse-engineer the situation, making land part of the solution rather than the problem?
For one method, please follow the trail of breadcrumbs. It’s a fairly short trail leading to a late-night conversation almost twenty years ago in what was then a quite unremarkable restaurant in Nurnburgh ( or Nurenberg if you prefer something more modern )
Search for ‘Google’,
Request in ‘Google’ the listings for ‘Place4Peace’
Select second item listed.
Follow as indicated.
PS: If you’re interested in golf, Tiger Woods is doing quite well at the Open which is a little way up the road from here. If only we all could do as well when it comes to finalising certain matters. I might even take up the sport myself – given the proper incentive!
For ‘fundemental’ please read ‘fundamental’.
Sorry about that. I’m a Virgo and we’re all a bit pedantic like that.
Apologies again but ‘trail of breadcrumbs’ now needs a small course correction as the Google listings have changed.
Instead of ‘ select second item listed’ now select first item listed – this should be the main homepage for Place4Peace.
Type ‘Star Trek’ into the Place4Peace ‘search’ box found at the top of the screen.
Two postings from Place4pPeace should become available.
Please read both.
After reading most of this blog I am starting to get worried… if you Jews can’t even agree among yourselves, how can a typical Christian like me support Isreal or a Jewish cause? I think, like most Americans, that before 9/11 I was pretty niave about Islam and all “faiths” being acceptable. I especially know now that, while I still acknowlege Judism, Christ is the only answer (and that Mohammand was the anti-Christ of his time). Muslims seem only to promote Islam through any (read violent) means. Jews can’t decide who their enimies are (why are you all Democrats?), and moderates Christians just want to please everyone? At one point in a man’s life, he must take a stand and act.
Tom’s no doubt fake e mail address is ‘myheadhertz.’ I couldn’t agree more. My head hurts just in reading his spew.
Richard! The West Bank is not “illegally” occupied. Israel won that land in a war. Anyways, you are a bad individual who blames the Palestinian terrorism on “Israeli opression”. Israel has made many concessions over the years which the Palestinians refuse to accept. How come no Jews/Israeli’s blow themselves up? Because they are civilized, human beings, whereas Palestinians Muslims believe they will go to Paradise if they blow up some Jews. The hatred for Israel has nothing to with the Occupation of Gaza or the West Bank- the Palestinians want all of Israel. Walid Shoebat is a good guy by the way, you shouldn’t insult him
Israel “won” that land?? What is this a poker game in which you win a hand fair and square and the winnings are yours for the taking?? I don’t care whether Israel “won” the Occupied Territories or not. The fact that Israel conquered the land and continues to occupy it is all that matters. The rest of the world says Israel occupies it illegally. You and yr fellow right wing zealots say otherwise. Gee, who are we to believe?
Ooooh, yes I am. I’m a very, very bad person. And thank you so much for pointing out the error of my ways. I’ll do my best to correct them, yes sir I promise I will.
Oh, pls. do tell us about all those imaginary Israeli concessions. I’m all ears.
Gee, I dunno. Could it be perhaps that Israelis have more to live for, that Israelis (most anyway) have jobs, can feed their families, & generally have some hope for the future? Almost none of which Palestinians currently enjoy.
I do so love the starry-eyed racists who find Israelis to be God’s paragon and Palestinians to be mere animals. I couldn’t have conceived you any better had I ordered the standard issue Palestinian hater from central casting.
Oh dear. Oh deary deary me. Walid is a “good guy.” Perish the thought that I’d want to “insult” such a sterling exemplar of humanity. I don’t know what I was thinking when I wrote those nasty things about him.
Is it too late to take them all back?? Do you think if I repented like he did that some fatcat Christian Zionist folks would give me a ton of dough & trot me around the world to show the error of my former Palestinian-loving ways???
Are You really ignorant of the facts OR are You just ignoring the facts for Your Ends (whatever that may Be ) ..Since This is Your Holy Site … You can Have Your say however Trash it may be ….. I was right …Dicky Boy –My Lad … You are part of the Virus which is destroying the truth and will bring about Mass Ignorance and eventually Tragedy on a Massive Scale ..
Whoo boy! It’s been a while since this thread has seen such nutcase hate. I’d say MIke you ought to look in the mirror & there you’ll find the “trash” and “virus” which brings about “mass ignorance” and “tragedy on a massive scale.” If you were running things the world would be one helluva sorry place filled with mass hatred and hysteria not to mention mass persection or even violence against those like me who don’t share The Truth.
I find it completely sad how people think Islam is spread through violence. If that were true, why is Islam the fastest growing religion?
Walid Shoebat is nothing but a greedy warmonger. He creates hate and violence through his words. All he cares about is the money and status he receives. How sick that 9/11 became a “pro-hatred of Muslims” platform for the likes of Shoebat and Manji. They don’t really care about God and peace. Not at all. All they care about is their bank accounts.
Manji would be nothing without the Zionist Asper family promoting her work [against Islam]. Without the mighty and powerfully rich Asper family/estate, Manji would not have received several awards from Jewish organizations for her work – a work that only serves to spread ambiguous tales about Islam and Muslims, further causing a lack of understanding and hatred towards Muslims.
God wins !! Jesus Not allah !
But Allah is their God, as is Jesus yours. No one’s God is better than anyone else’s. Nobody’s God wins. That’s the problem w. idiots like you. Your God always has to win & there’ll always be some equally nutty guy on the other side to say: No, you don’t.” Then you proceed to a Holy War & kills thousands and end with no clear winner and many losers. Thanks for the mess people like you have made of the world.
the war of israel and palestine is a mistake done by God long time ago, He brought inequity between children of his own nation and bring suffering. it is God who made every children of a person recorded in the bible foought against each other, way back from Cain and Abel until the existance of jesus and till now.
Walid Shoebat cuts the throat of his own Christian Zionists. This guy is losing his marbles.