6 thoughts on “Mossad Infiltrated French Presidential Computer Systems – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. And I suppose it was 8200 who listened to Angela merckel because a democracy like the USA would never spy on it’s allies!
    Get real! Every one is doing it all the time. The golden rule is not getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar. Obama’s hand is well and truly stuck in the jar for all to see. 8200’s hands are lighting a cigarette and laughing at the fiasco.

    1. @ Shmuel: If Unit 8200 is lighting a cigarette, one of these days, if it isn’t humiliated by a Snowden style debacle beforehand, it will get cancer and die a painful death.

      There is one reason that NSA faces controversy and 8200 faces none: we still here have operatives within the intelligence apparatus who have a conscience and understand the value of constitutional law (Snowden, Manning, Ellsberg, Sterling, Drake, Kiriakou, Leibowitz, etc). In 8200 there are no such individuals because Israel is a society which largely derogates democratic values.

      1. Richard, these are bizarre and far-reaching claims, even for you.

        Let’s begin at the beginning:

        First, it is unclear from the document that Israel is actually behind this attack. Possibly it could be inferred by the deliberate mention of Israel (and even then I think that’s a bit of a far stretch, but maybe I’m just not as sensitive), but other than this vague reference, there is no actual proof provided. The French suspected the US; the US suspected Israel. But it’s far from conclusive. Moreover, the NSA is not sure which Israeli agency, if any, is responsible for it. So the title of “Mossad Infiltrated French Presidential Computer Systems” is misleading. No; it should be “NSA suspected Israel might be behind attack on French Presidential systems.” Admittedly not as sexy, but far more accurate.

        Second, regarding the claim that “we still here have operatives within the intelligence apparatus who have a conscience… In 8200 there are no such individuals”, one must ask: “Really? Not one? Not a SINGLE ONE??”

        If what you say about operatives with a conscience were true, then a) the NSA wouldn’t have reached this point at all, and b) it would have faced such exposures long before, and on a regular basis. Moreover, you mix up in your list people whose disclosures deal with actions of the US government towards its own citizens or violations of US law (Ellsberg, Drake, Snowden’s early leaks about spying against US civilians), and those whose disclosures are against 3rd parties and/or America’s enemies (such as Sterling or Snowden’s recent leaks). This is an important distinction, because while the actions of the former (whatever one may think of them) can be classified as classic “whistle-blowing” (i.e., protecting the rule of law), the latter do not.

        Now you may not like it, but spying on the citizens of a different country is neither illegal nor unethical under US law, or the law of any other country, for that matter. Even countries that you idolize (who for some reason tend to have an even worse record than the US in this matter). Therefore you comments about “conscience” and “the value of constitutional law” are completely misplaced because they are totally irrelevant to this matter.

        To get back to my original point about the conscientiousness of intelligence operatives, here’s a more plausible explanation: instead of being a conscientiousness knight in shining armor, Snowden is a deranged and attention-seeking individual, who in his quest to expose US wrongdoings (in his view) is unable to discern between legitimate concerns over the breaking of US law and exposing classified information which does nothing except harm US interests.

        This is why, for example, after exposing NSA spying on US citizens, he seeks asylum in the country with the absolute worst record of spying on its own citizens (China), flirts with a host of authoritarian and/or dictatorial regimes, known for cracking down on free speech and political opponents (Cuba, Bolivia, Venezuela), and finally settles in a country whose record on human rights and imperialism is far worse than that of the US (Russia).

        But well, as long as you get to stick it to Israel…

        1. @ Eli: Sorry, but I believe the Mossad perpetrated the attack and I’m going to say that. If it’s false and you can prove it you’ll have a real scoop on your hands. I dare you to do so.

          If you review LeMonde’s report you’ll find they say explicitly that the language used in the report is deliberately euphemistic. In other words, the Americans who wrote it believe the Mossad was behind the attack. If not, why would they explicitly mention Mossad as an entity they DID NOT approach? Why not say: we didn’t approach the KGB; we didn’t approach Chinese intelligence; we didn’t approach North Korean intelligence, etc. Mossad was the only one mentioned.

          As an Israeli you should be used to the Kabuki drama of national intelligence posturing. You say something by not saying it directly. Instead you say what you’re NOT saying, which allows the reader to infer what you ARE saying. So I’d advise you to clear up this national security mess so countries don’t have to tacitly accuse Israel of putting their nose in the business of other countries where it doesn’t belong.

          As for consciences within 8200, I’ll tell you what there IS within that unit: sexual predators and all sorts of sociopathic behavior. Note a blog post I wrote on one such sex scandal. As for moral consciences, I’m afraid no. Since there is no Israeli constitution, no Bill or Rights, no strong sense of privacy or liberty, hackers in 8200 don’t have pangs of conscience about what they do. And even if they did, all they’d have to do is look to the example of Mordechai Vanunu to see what would in store for them should they “do a Snowden.”

          Your claims about the NSA “not reaching the point it did at all,” doesn’t hold water. I didn’t say the NSA was composed of Boy Scouts; that every NSA official had a profound sense of ethics and human rights. I said there were SOME who did & thank God for that. Indeed, U.S. intelligence has faced such exposures on a “regular basis.” That’s why I provided the list of whistleblowers. They stretch back to the 1970s and reach all the way up to yesterday.

          Your claim that Snowden is not a whistleblower is patently ridiculous. His revelations did not deal with “third parties and enemies” as you claim. His leaks deal with virtually every aspect of U.S. intelligence gathering from U.S. citizens, to U.S. allies. In fact, there are very few revelations among Snowden’s data about our operations against enemies like Russia or China. This explicitly contradicts your claim.

          Spying on foreign citizens or governments may not violate U.S. law, but it’s gotten the NSA, the Obama administration and the reputation of this country into deep, deep shit. So you can argue till the cows come home that Mossad or NSA don’t do things that are illegal. But the fact is that nations around the world are disgusted by the behavior reported in Snowden’s expose. The NSA’s overreaching has single-handedly brought relations with some of our closest allies (France, Germany, Mexico) to the lowest point they’ve faced in years. So much for not breaking the law!!

          Even countries that you idolize

          Unlike you I don’t speak in riddles. What countries are you talking about? I warn you, if you portray my views on my behalf and are wrong I’ll bump you outa here faster than you can say: hasbara. In fact, I think I’ve already banned you if I recall. I only approved this comment because it was worth refuting the ridiculous material in it.

          Snowden is a deranged and attention-seeking individual

          This is not only a stupid, ignorant comment. It’s offensive, repugnant. Congratulations, you have some of the most disgusting views of any commenter here for at least the past month or so.

          Finally, there isn’t a hint of any moral or ethical value in your comment. You don’t espouse any democratic value or constitutional principle. There are no limits to what you permit intelligence, especially Israeli intelligence. Which only proves the point of my post, that there are no values to Israeli intelligence pursuits, only interests.

          1. Not to mention Brazil, president Dilma Rousseff was very undiplomatic explicit during her address at the UNGA last month! Beyond all hypocrisy, even David Cameron joined the EU criticism of the Obama administration. The British truly have sold their soul (re: GCHQ) to the NSA. 🙂

  2. Richard.
    In case you haven’t heard, Chairperson of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Sen. Diane Feinstein, says the United States did spy on France.

    “”With respect to NSA collection of intelligence on leaders of U.S. allies — including France, Spain, Mexico and Germany — let me state unequivocally: I am totally opposed,”. –Foreign Policy magazine.

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