Israel Looted Millions in Mavi Marmara Booty, Yet Punishes 1 Soldier for Stealing a Laptop
One thing you’ve got to hand Israel: it has chutzpah in spades. Those who participated in the Mavi Marmara expedition to break the Gaza siege were kidnapped by Israeli commandos. Nine Turks were murdered, many with bullets fired at close range or in the back. The surviving victims were imprisoned by Israel for days in Ashkelon. All of their personal belongings were confiscated, which resulted in the looting of at least $2-million (some estimates are as high as $3.5-million) worth of cameras, video camcorders, laptops, cell phones, credit cards, wallets, purses, etc. One prisoner described her witnessing the murders of her fellow passengers only to find Israeli soldiers were buying beer with her stolen credit card. Here’s one Israeli report on the matter.
Now, years after the massacre, Israeli military “justice” is finally getting around to punishing the looters (Hebrew)–or I should say looter. For only one poor schlimazel faces discipline for his handiwork. This poor guy earned 200 days in jail for the crime of stealing a laptop and video console. What the hell did Israel do with the rest of the gear? Sell it? Give it to the Mossad? Distribute it to the guards? Where did it go?
If this wasn’t such a loony result it would be funny. The legal ruling even has the unmitigated chutzpah to say:
Behind the acts of the accused, lie a unique public sensitivity. His actions have implications for the image of the IDF and State of Israel.
In other words, were it not for the murders, the accused would likely have gone scot-free. But they needed a scapegoat and this poor shlump didn’t have any commander strong enough or willing enough to protect him as all the other looters were granted impunity for their thefts.
What’s distressing about this is that Israelis will argue that this individual was the one rotten apple in the bunch. By punishing him it’s shown it is a nation of laws and due process. When the truth is there was systematic looting of the Mavi Marmara victims. They filed petitions with Israel listing the items stolen and Israel has done NOTHING to find them or return them. Thus Israel has sanctioned the thefts as a sort of punishment inflicted on them because they dared to defy Israel. It was also a warning to future blockade runners that they would be dealt with in a similar manner. That is why many said they would not bring any items of value with them the next time they set sail for Gaza.
In a related matter, Turkey is reporting a major obstacle to sealing a deal with Israel over the massacre. Israel had initially agreed to include an admission of wrongdoing to accompany the compensation it was offering the nine victims’ families. But now it is refusing to include the admission because it is afraid it might “set a precedent” for the future . This can only mean Israel is petrified of all the international rulings that might ensue from its previous egregious violations of international law (e.g. Cast Lead, 2006 Lebanon War, etc.). Either that or its hedging its bets, expecting future massacres from whose fall-out it hopes to be protected.
Turkey’s deputy prime minister explained the problem:
“The amount of money is not the problem,” Arınç said. “There are two problematic areas. The first one is that Israel should accept that it’s paying this money as a result of its wrongful act. Nothing less than this will be accepted. And second, we are waiting for them to realize our third condition of cooperating with Turkey in making life conditions easier for Palestinians. We are not talking about the amount of money as our first two conditions have not been met,” he added.
“We are not going to rush for the money. Israel has to accept its wrongful act. Otherwise we will not say ‘yes’ to them,” he said…
This is unfortunately the Israeli MO personified going all the way back to the founding of the State. Commit acts of theft and murder in the name of state-building. Accept no responsibility for the consequences because the end justifies the means. Go through life expecting the world will learn to live with it. Being shocked when that doesn’t turn out to be the case. There will come a day when Israel will be suitably humbled. When it will realize it has to live within the world and by its rules instead of by a concocted code known only to Israel itself.
52 thoughts on “Israel Looted Millions in Mavi Marmara Booty, Yet Punishes 1 Soldier for Stealing a Laptop – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم”
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What the hell did Israel do with the rest of the gear?
That’s a good question!
In previous aid ships to Gaza that most of their cargo consisted of weapons (the ship “Karin A” is one example), the weapons were used for testing defensive systems like the Iron Dome, and I’m only guessing that the anti-tank missiles and mortars are kept at bunkers somewhere, and at some point will be given or sold to a friendly country who cannot afford more advance equipment.
As for the cameras and laptops – the IDF went through them and was able to extract footage that taken on the ship. That’s how they got to some embarrassing footage of Hanin Zuabi, Israeli MP, or footage of the victims as they prepare metal pipes from parts of the ship.
I could send you some links to some of this footage if you like.
In my opinion, the “one poor schlimazel” who is no more than a pathetic thief – he got much less than he deserved.
OK, now I’ve had it with you. You’ve ignored previous demands from me that you offer proof of such ridiculous claims. Now you will be banned. But before banning I need to once again parse your lunacy: the Karin A was NOT an “aid” ship & NO ships organized by the international movement on Gaza’s behalf have contained any weapons. That is a bald-faced, stupid lie & the cause of your banning.
I don’t want to see your stupid propaganda footage. I want to see the stolen equipment. Can you produce it? I’ll even remove your banning if you can return a single piece of stolen equipment to a survivor. Or even if you show me that you wrote a letter to the prime minister demanding the stolen booty be returned. Will you?
And before you go, you might notify the next hasbarist in line to land at Ben Gurion that he should prepare to take your place. A little in joke you won’t understand.
Alas poor Nimrod, we knew him well…
For the record for poor little banned Nimrod. The Free Gaza movement sailed successfully FIVE times into Gaza in 2008, setting a precedent that we had every right to sail into that illegally blockaded port. Every time we went, our cargo was inspected at the point of departure, just like all boats are inspected. There is no law that says Israel has the right to inspect anything, especially in international waters. If that were the case, our maritime traffic would be a complete mess.
And who inspects the millions of tons of weapons of mass destruction that come into Israeli ports? We were on a mission to break the illegal blockade of Gaza. It was the 8th time we went. Israeli terrorists boarded our boats in international waters, a direct violation of maritime law, they beat up our passengers, stole our equipment… and many of the boats that went on this voyage and subsequent voyages.. have never been returned to us, in spite of the fact that we hired attorneys in Israel to retrieve them.
The ones that were sent back, the Mavi Marmara and two Greek ships, were in terrible condition. It seems as though Israel is not only guilty of piracy, but also guilty of mendacity. These voyages are not going to stop.
And Israel parades as a nation-state like any other! It is not, ;it is a terrorist entity armed by the US to intimidate ;unruly Arabs and others in the region. Every Israelia is on the US payroll and bears responsibility for the crimes of the “government.” That government is an imitation.
Good riddance to Nimrod.
I think it’s important to have right-wing or pro-Israel commenters here, as long as they follow the rules. While I disagree with most or everything that many of them write, it’s important that this not be just an echo chamber of like-minded folks.
@Richard Absolutely! I want real, serious interlocutors in the discussion as well. It is not by virtue of his stance that I think you are right to ban Nimrod at a point.
…..and this is why I call Israel “Sleazeland.” The IDF considered everything it stole war booty, like how the British used to prize German petrol canisters in the desert, even though it wasn’t a war. Every time Sleazeland comes up against international law, it ignores it. There are very nasty places I would send the zahalniks behind the Mavi Mamara attack to if I had the power.
It was recognized in WW2 that personal possessions were different from military supplies and equipment. At least, in the West. All bets were completely off in China and Eastern Europe.
Some GIs used the ban on possession of military swords in occupied Japan, to steal priceless historical samurai swords. Largely from museums.
But by and large, it was notable, especially in North Africa and Italy, how often what looked like the key personal possessions of a deceased soldier got returned to his loved ones.
The SAS acquired their first four Agusta 109 helicopters on the battlefield in 1982, and worked them till they wore out and had to buy new ones.
A couple of thousand FN FAL rifles and .45″ pistols had to be offloaded from returning troop transports onto Guernsey-registered fishing boats at the last minute, when it was realized that an intolerant official attitude was going to be taken to attempts to re-home abandoned military hardware.
This forced the States of Guernsey to actually introduce a firearms law shortly afterwards, though not a very harsh one.
More recently, someone faced charges for keeping as a war-trophy, the buttocks blown off a bronze statue of Saddam Hussein by a BAR mine employed for demolition purposes. To be honest, I think that was a little over-zealous.
But taking credits cards and mobile phones is a definite no no, though temporarily confiscating or disabling a mobile might be reasonable.
Excellent article once again by Richard. Just one correction that needs to be stated over and over. The Israelis murdered nine of our passengers (actually, they murdered ten, since one has been in a vegetative coma since May 2010). But one of them, Furkan Dogan, was an American citizen. The U.S. government has done nothing to hold the Israeli terrorists accountable for his death. Every one of the men killed was holding a camera, the first one shot between the eyes from the helicopter as he held his camera up to record.
In addition, these Israelis pirates wounded over 60 people on board ALL boats, breaking arms and legs and noses and causing cuts and bruises on many women and men.
Many of the reports of the kidnapping, piracy and subsequent imprisonment can be found here. http://www.freegaza.org/boat-trips/survivor-testimonies.html
Israel will never admit wrong doing, never mind make apologies. That would be to accept culpability.
The IDF death of Rachel Corrie was no different, nor the sham of the Court case.
I just wish I knew how this can be exposed on the news programs, but that is ridiculous, isn’t it?
What about Frontline, Pbs Newhour? again, I am not sure. They did post a segment on the Eritrean refugees recently, but did not broadcast it, unfortunately.
Thank you for the this information. I hope this gets more U.S. and International coverage.
IDF justice system behavior with respect to the looting has been a disgrace.
Few officers were arrested with suspicion of involvement in the looting and only two soldiers convicted ?
As an Israeli i am extremely ashamed. This is not what iv’e been taught as a solider.
@ Richard, the Haaretz article talks about 2 solider who were disciplined: The first will serve 200 days for stealing a laptop and the second reached an agreement with the prosecution and will serve 150 days.
The first will serve 200 days for stealing a laptop and the second reached an agreement with the prosecution and will serve 150 days.
Compare that to the sentences handed down to Palestinian children for allegedly throwing stones. Not forgetting that they are intorrogated without a lawyer or parent present, and tried in a military court, both of which violate international law. That tells you all you need to know about Israel’s “justice” system !
And even worse from Israel’s “justice” system – Palestinian man is convicted to 10 Years in israeli prison for selling bagels. http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.537819
Mr. Martin, to read the full text in Haaretz you need to subscribe. I assume you didn’t do it and you read the titles only (as the reporter wanted people do so). In Israel, when a man doesn’t pay fines, the judge gives him time to pay OR he can choose to go to prison instead. No body, of course, chooses the second choice, including this Beigalle seller, Zaki Sabah. After 4 days, he reached an agreement with the municipality authorities and had to pay 10% of his fines with several payments.
The Israeli “justice” system, is one of the best in the world. I assume you know how many Palestinians civilians complained against the IDF and won. The BAGATS system protect any Israeli civilian from the authorities. I hope Silverstein would agree with me. meanwhile, I reccomend you to remove the “” from “justice”.
@Eli: Why should any Palestinian pay any money to Israeli authorities? Citizens pay money to the government in return for services offered to them. Jerusalem & Israel offer virtually no such services to East Jerusalem. Demanding poor Palestinian street vendors pay such fees is unjust.
As to the Israeli justice system, it’s one of the most opaque & prejudiced against Palestinians. The Supreme Court is a rubber stamp for the intelligence services and goon squads. But nice try. Are you writing from a hasbara script btw? Or is this your own spontaneous personal expression?
As for agreeing with you? I certainly will once Israel becomes a democracy, a development devoutly to be wished.
Please don’t spout such hasbara here in future. It’s old, tired & convinces no one except yourself.
Why it is all “Hasbara”? Why telling the through is “Hasbara”? Look, I don’t say that you write old, tired antisemitic posts so don’t write that I am old, tired “Hasbara”! What about a regular Israeli citizen that want to comment here and write things that you don’t like? the answer for your question is: Yes, it is my own spontaneous personal expression!!!
And to the point: I replied to comment of Robby that said that a Beigalle seller was sent to “10 years to prison”. Before I finish to read his comment I knew it is absurd (even in our “justice” system!!). It took me few minutes to read the full text, not only the dramatic title which Haaretz reporter wrote!! and realized that the information wrong.
I know you lived in Israel in the past, but I invite you again to the Old city of Jerusalem. Come and see by your self why should any Palestinian pay any money to Israeli authorities. You will be surprised. (and, please, don’t say it is Hasbara again).
sorry, telling the truth.
“I assume you know how many Palestinian civilians complained against the IDF and won”
I don’t know, and I would love if you’d give us some examples, and maybe the percentage of complaints actually won. Take you time.
Israeli “justice” system might be on decent level with affairs concerning purely Jews, but with non-Jews it is real joke which has very little or nothing to do with justice. Is it presumable, that Israeli regime, police and IDF tell the truth even to their own courts? I seriously doubt it. Only in cases where there is unquestionable video evidence, which can’t be denied or some honest Israeli officials or soldiers refuse to hide truth of some event, Israel reacts in the way normal people see as the legal and just way. Otherwise it is mostly a lie after excuse “justice” for Palestinians, non-Jews and outside world.
During Cast Lead Israel bombed in Gaza a mother-child clinic run by the Finnish Church. Finland demanded from Israel an official diplomatic explanation why it did that. After months Finland got the official Israeli answer. The reason for bombing was (naturally) a secret Hamas weapon cache (no proof presented). Surprisingly Israel continued its “explanation” by claiming, that if Israel would have known there is a clinic in the building Israel would not have bombed the building. So Finland and we Finns were demanded to believe, that Israel knows, that Hamas had in the building in question a secret weapon cache, but did not know, that there is public mother-child clinic, which had operated there a longer time and that on the building was a huge painted red cross mark. Come-on, if Israel is ready to publicly lie on diplomatic levels, why should it tell the truth to Israeli justice system.
@SimoHurtta: That is largely true. But there’s another distinction between security-related and purely criminal matters that’s involved. Anyone accused of security offenses, whether Jew or non-Jew will receive draconian, abusive treatment though Palestinians in this predicament will get the worst. But Zygier & other Jewish security detainees were treated similarly poorly by Israel’s security goons.
Then of course the Israeli justice system deals very poorly with sex crimes, rape & hate crimes, favoring the accused over the victim.
Well if one begins to use racist and discriminatory policies in the security and justice systems, it is only a question of time when the violence and mistreatment spreads to used also against the main population group. A police and prison guard who are trained and used to use “unorthodox” methods begin to use them against everybody who they see as “the enemy”. Übermensch attitude training works always like that. Seems that also Israeli Jews, who do not approve what is done and foreigners get increasingly often the “Palestinian treatment” packet. What is worrisome is that Israeli police and security systems are teaching these Gestapo style “Palestinian treatment” methods around the world.
By saying that among Jews the Israel justice system MIGHT be on decent level, I did mean as a “polite” opening of my comment to not to be accused as antisemitic. Anyway in Jew against Jew/Jewish state cases Israeli justice system has some (distant) resemblance to fair justice. But in cases non-Jew against Jew/Jewish state the Israeli justice system (normal and occupied area’s systems) seems to work at the best miserably if justice would be the goal.
If this report regarding the Finnish clinic is true, the lie is transparent. Seems to me a transparent lie or an absud response are intended messages aimed at ridiculing the inquiry. It seems to say that if you want an “explanation” try this fanciful one here! If so, it is abusive and disrespectful and the Finnish agency should continue the probing.
Of course what happened to clinic and how it was “explained” by Israel was true. Naturally Israeli and international press did not speak much of this event and the absurd explanation.
Israel destroyed THREE Danish mobile clinics in Gaza during Cast Lead. It would be interesting to know what were the Israeli official excuses to that (I have no time now to find out what were the reasons told to Danish government).
Finnish politicians and state have also learned to be careful with Israel. The slightest criticism of Israel’s actions and the insane antisemitism holocaust shouting by Israeli and US Jewish organizations and in the media they control begins. Aided with some right-wing Zionists in the local Jewish congregation. Last who got that treatment was a respected old Finnish diplomat, conservative party leader and minister who made the mistake of analyzing in television the reasons why USA did not support the UN membership of Palestine. The reasons he said to be behind the decision was the huge influence of the Jewish minority in USA and their ability to control the large parts of finance and main media. Reasons everybody who follows the situation admits, but reasons nobody is allowed to say. The only who defended Salolainen during those furious attacks was a Finnish Jewish MP.
Finland as a state is also used to the level of Israeli explanations. Before this clinic event was when a Finnish UN officer and his collages from Austria, China and Canada were killed by Israel during last Lebanon war. Hizbollah positions (without proof naturally) was the only explanation. The Israeli prime minister Olmert promised UN general secretary Kofi Annan a thorough inspection. There was never done that inspection and Israel refused to neutral inspections. Robert Fisk among many other have said what Israel did was a planed attack against the UNTSO base in Khiam.
It is useless to demand further explanations of a state like what Israel has become. They lie and if they can’t lie they refuse to explain.
SimoHurtta: First, although I don’t agree with you in some points, I really like your comment which is a good example for a comment without incitements and offences.
There are two different subjects in your comment: The Israeli Justice system and the civilian facilities harmed by IDF.
I agree with you that there are two law systems for Jews and non-Jews in Israel. Let me give you one example: Many people in Israel are accused for building illegal house. The authorities demolish the illegal houses or ask to pay fine, I believe the same way as in Finland. The Jews accept the rules, pay their fine or accept the destruction of their illegal houses. Most of the Palestinians know the power of the media; invite journalists and photographers to report about “The destruction of a Palestinian house only because he is an Arab”. Many protestors and human rights organization members are coming and try to prevent the destruction, the authorities send policemen and all of this become one big anti-Israeli celebration. You, in the West, are exposed to these bias reports only and receive the impression that there are two different law systems. In consequence, Israel became sensitive that now it is easy to judge Jews and hard to judge Arabs, leading to mass illegal constructions in Arab villages. Most of the Jews think that there are two law systems: for Jews and non-Jews!!
To the second point in your comment, the only thing I can say is something that you probably heard many times: From 1973, the last real war between armies, until today, Israel has to defend her self from armed organizations. Unfortunately, these organizations use civilians and civil facilities as their battlefield. You saw the consequences in operation Lead Cast. I really sorry for the Finish clinic and I sure the volunteers had nothing with the war. As a former soldier in IDF, I know and sure that IDF does all efforts to avoid civilian’s harms. I know my comment will lead some here say it is old, tedious Zionist Hasbara propaganda. But for me, as one that lives here and struggles for peace for both peoples, this is the truth.
You write about construction permits and illegal building:
“The Jews accept the rules, pay their fine or accept the destruction of their illegal houses”
Do you really think anyone here doesn’t know the institutionalized discrimination against Palestinian citizens of Israel when it comes to contruction permits. These are practically never given, and even having a permit to adding a floor or an extra room is a year-long procedure.
By the way, you didn’t bother to give me any examples of your “I assume you know how many Palestinians complained about the IDF and won” and the percentage of such cases.
“…Israel has to defend her self (herself) from armed organizations…these organizations use civilians and civil facilities…”
These sorts of remarks have the form such that poor Israel is “put upon” in such and such ways and then has no choice but such and such..” evoking an appearance of necessity with which any civilized person can sympathize. These statements are ill-formed and illegitimate: In the first place, Israel itself has grievously put itself upon others in both civilian and military capacities to the nth degree. The statement can easily be recast as poor little Palestine or poor little West Bank has been assaulted by malignant foreigners and these societies also have no choice but to defend themselves! Then, of course, we “see the consequences” in Hamas and Hezbollah and the unfortunate stray rocket maiming an Israeli pet or occasionally disabling an Israeli even in Cast Lead with its incommensurate use of force!
It is annoying that one can appear rational and even sympathetic simply by selecting the starting point for their presentation from among the multiple regressive primary statements possible. Let me be more succinct: Israel has choices, has always had choices, in how to cope with its unstable and ill-formed society and polity. Rather than Cast Lead, or social discrimination, or a racist legal structure, Israel has always had the option of making peace with Palestinians within and other states without. Israel has had the option of not annexing the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Golan at this stage of expansion and encouraging peace and the possibility of aiding and abetting justice in the form of a Palestinian state on land which Israel covets, a suitable “sacrifice” in view of the Nakba and decades of oppression of an innocent people in the region. It is Israel and the Zionists who have elected otherwise, in their wisdom, and have cast the dice for generations of on-going “terrorism:” from both Arab organizations and Israeli courts, military and terrorist security services.
The whirlwind that Israel has now inherited is earned everyday by the settlement of other peoples property and systematic repression, alienation, imprisonment and torment of another people, a people still innocent of crimes against Jews as such. I can only ascribe these murderous decisions to greed and arrogance and will not accept any ridiculous notions of “defensible borders” or biblical land deeds etc. all in the name of the Jewish people of which I am a part.
Your “Unfortunately…” should complete with “Israel has elected war and oppression and aggrandizement.”
SimoHurtta: My upper comment is a reply to your comment from July 28, 2013 at 2:16 AM. I didn’t notice you wrote one more comment until I uploaded mine. I ask you, please, don’t use phrases like “Gestapo style”. You gave us a good example of nice language comment in your first one. Although I don’t agree with you I would respect your positions and opinions if you be so kind and avoid using Nazis phrases.
Well what is this blindfolding of even young children (Palestinian naturally not Jewish)? What is arresting under-aged children (Palestinians only naturally) and using doing it very cruel methods ? What is using children (Palestinians only) as human shields tied on tanks and cars? What is the used water boarding what is using stress positions etc means of torture? What is putting people (Palestinians, not Jews naturally) for years in prisons and concentration camps without trials? What is shooting directly at demonstrators? What is using “separation fences” in style of Warsaw ghetto? What is trying to send unwanted colored people out of Israel and giving weapons in order to do that? What is “chemically” sterilizing women (colored Jews)? ETC. When was the last time when in a western country, which called itself as civilized, were equal methods used? In Germany in the 30’s (what happened in the 40’s is a different chapter). As said many times Israel has been becoming more brutal and racist in the many ways and probability of a total moral collapse is very likely.
Eli say to your religious tribe’s members in Israel not to use “Gestapo methods” against people they see and treat as inferiors. Then there is no need to find comparison points in history. Israel and Israelis like to be seen as a western democracy so we must compare it to them and to their recent history.
Mr Eli ” The Israeli “justice” system, is one of the best in the world. I assume you know how many Palestinians civilians complained against the IDF and won.”
Really is that so ? Methinks you speak with a forked tongue, but I’m not surprized. Yesh Din investigation shows that less than 10% of crimes reported by Palestinians against illegal settlers in the West Bank result in indictments by the occupation forces (70 out of 755 last year). It doesn’t say how many were convicted, but I would imagine it’s smaller again.
Meanwhile, Palestinian children face life imprisonment for allegedly (ie, not) throwing stones…
The ” ” stay with Israeli “justice”
It is always happens: People like you, write comments against Israel. When someone try to convince them that the information they cited in their (specific) comments is wrong or not complete, they run to other evidences to justify their comments.
What about our Beigalle seller, Zaki Sabah? did he needs to complete his “10 years in prison”?
5 minutes ago, Israeli TV channel 2 interviewed Zaki Sabah, the Beigalle (Bagel) seller as a free man in Jaffa Gate, Old City of Jerusalem. He reached an agreement and will pay his fine. By the way, I realized I know him – Good Hot Beigalle with Humus Balls!!! – very recommended!!
In a related issue, Brig-Gen Eden Attias, former head of Nevatim IAFB, cited by Turkish intelligence for his involvement in the Mavi Marmara affair (not to mention his role in Cast-Lead and Gaza), is resident Israeli military attache to Canada. Surprisingly, there has not been a word of criticism about his warcriminal past, not in the Canadian media, nor surprisingly even by the Canadian Boat to Gaza folks. Wonder why?
Can you find me more information about him & his current posting. I may be able to drum up some interesting responses to his role.
“You’ve ignored previous demands from me that you offer proof of such ridiculous claims”
That what you told your latest mouth gaging victim.
Yet when I try to find your proof for your bombastic headline, I saw you linked it to one of your commenters’ stament.
Well, I hope Mary will ecuse me for taking her word on it.
Now, while your basic argument is valid, and all involved in this crime should be punished, with these kind of statements – you should be banned too, according to your rules (like others you don’t follow…)
It’s his site. He can run it as he sees fit. It is clear that the rules are for those who wish to comment. He is not a commenter, he is the site owner. He is under no obligation to allow anyone to comment here for any reason.
Instead of actually doing research & supporting your claims, you whine about the rules, or that I enforce them arbitrarily, or whatever bee is under your bonnet.
BTW, that commenter to whom I linked is one of the founders of the Free Gaza movement and the boat voyages to break the siege. Though she & I have some differences, she knows from whereof she speaks concerning the Mavi Marmara. Unlike you, I know my sources & can vouch for their knowledge of what they’re talking about.
@SiomoHurtta: Concentration Camps in Israel? shooting directly on demonstrators? “separation fences” in style of Warsaw ghetto? What about the gas chambers? did you forget them?
Tell me, please, Mr. Hurtta, are you seriously telling me that we are just brutal Nazis? If yes, I must tell you that you don’t know nothing about Israel and about the Jews and Arabs relationships here in Israel.
The truth is that both the Nazi and the revisionist Zionist regimes are or were human constructs aimed at enhancing the life and well-being of the elect. It is not happenstance that they faced similar problems and took similar decisions, building similar institutions and relying upon certain practices to achieve their ends, including, but not limited to, for example, aggressive war and the segregation of races. Such analogies are painful to some precisely because they are revealing.
Invoking Nazi terminology and memes is a comment rule violation. Please read the rules carefully before commenting again. And I hope no one responds to this particular trollish provocation.
@Richard: I very glad that there is such rule. I didn’t mean to provoke, but if you read the comments of SinoHurtta and Davey you will find that they inserted a lot of Nazi terminology. It started by SimoHurtta that first used the term “Gestapo Methods” (July 29, 2013 at 2:16 AM). Me too don’t like Nazi terminology and I hope other will not use them any more.
As I apparently inserted a “lot of Nazi terminology,” I ask Eli to identify those terms clearly now.
(I do not share Richard’s sensitivity on the uses of such terms and references to that history. I think such tip toeing about serves to protect and insulate the ruinous fantasy of unique Jewish suffering and its fantastic corollary of hidden anti-semitism in every criticism of Israel’s policies and practices. The fantasy of uniqueness can only be assailed by making such uncomfortable analogies frequent and commonplace as encouragement to critical assessment. However, it is Richard’s blog and I try not to step outside the ken.
To be clear, I’m not opposed to ALL references to Nazism. I just hate when it’s used in a grandiose, sloppy way as a general curse. I’m not opposed to very careful analogies especially those which explain clearly the connection between a current issue & the Nazi-Holocuast era past.
Your link to “proof” of the looting leads to an article that doesn’t even bring the topic up, and not just that. Are we supposed to accept things at face value when you provide as much hard proof of your claims asthe pro-Israeli camp does – as in, none?
While it’s your site and you can naturally do whatever you want, in the absence of actual evidence, or support of evidence, words remain words, nothing more – which isn’t helpful.
You didn’t read the linked article carefully enough. It contains information supporting exactly what I wrote in my post. Usually I don’t have to lead readers by the nose to specific passages within a linked article because they can be trusted to be able to do that themselves. I’m sorry you need remedial support.
Words do remain words. And the words you claim aren’t there, are. Now go read the article more carefully and all the way to the end.
Who said just:
“What does it matter if the kushis paid by Tel Aviv beat the kushis paid by Greece?”
Yes it was the Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi of Israel, David Lau. This (and some previous thoughts by rabbis) reveals the moral state and level of present day’s Israel. The leading rabbi believes he can speak like a racist comedian. I am not certain to what in western world’s past hundred years history this could be compared. So let us agree, that this event of racist “jokes” was unseen, remembering, that it was done by a religions leading authority. If the archbishop of Finland would say something like this in the media, he most certainly could not continue as the archbishop. The public contempt would make it impossible to continue. The archbishop is a moral leader, not a tribal chief joking like Silvio Berlusconi.
@ Richard, i didn’t know where else to link this. Hope it’s appropriate
5 days have past since Al-Monitor reported that Gazan Fishermen are not permitted anymore into Egyptian waters. “the Egyptian military banned fishing in the area of the northern Sinai towns of Rafah, Sheikh Zuweid and El-Arish from July 18 until further notice.”
And yet no word from all those humanitarian aid organization that yelled they lungs about the Israeli siege. I wonder why so ?
@Gonen: You are a perfect representative of the Israeli hasbarist who does no research to determine whether the claim you want to make is true or not. First the ban on fishing has been widely reported & I’m sure you’re wrong about your claim.
But even if you’re right (a point I reject), you neglect the fact that several hundred Egyptians have been murdered over the past few weeks by the same military that’s restricting Gaza fishing rights. There was also a coup & the country stands on the brink of civil war. Those issues are also engaging humanitarian aid organizations. As surprising as this may be to you, the facts I mentioned above are even more important to them than Gaza fishing rights. In other words, NGOs prioritize what they do. When faced with a possible civil war & fishing ban, they gravitate toward helping those who would be damaged by a civil war.
Your cynicism is actually pretty disgusting and transparent. You don’t care about Gaza fishermen or feeding Gazans. So why exploit them on behalf of your pitiful attempts at hasbara?
Gonen’s sort of momentary gratuitous championing of a group reminds me somehow of the blowback to Stephen Hawking’s decision to not attend the conference in Israel: This blowback earnestly cited the fact that some of the technology which aids Hawking in his disability was developed in Israel! Again, an unrelated observation with the implication, however, that Hawking is anti-Israel to the point of extinction which is not likely but which fear is institutionalized in Israel (bad conscience?). I mean to highlight the pure opportunism of such “arguments.”
“…who does no research to determine whether the claim you want to make is true or not. First the ban on fishing has been widely reported …”
Oh, so you probably DID a research on this matter, so please, share your findings with us, share the links to this story on CNN, BBC or the pro-Israseli Guardian. No? nothing? Al Jazeera maybe? at least Haaretz? No?
Oh! Maan news. I guess that’s widely enough.
@Fred: The commenter offered a link to Al Monitor, a widely circulated media outlet on ME affairs, which reported the story. I read the story on my Twitter feed based on a media report the day before you posted it. Again, this means that anyone following news of this region on Twitter would pick it up. Maan is only of the most widely respected Palestinian news agencies. Which only shows how blinkered & insular you are as an Israeli.
Further this Google News search on the subject pulls up at least four media sources who’ve reported the story. Sorry, bub, you lose.
The snark in your comment marks you as someone who doesn’t want to be commenting here very long. So watch your step. Snark is not an appealing quality, especially when the snark is baseless as is yours.