45 thoughts on “National Intelligence Leaks and the Hasbarafia – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
task-attention.png
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.
 

  1. Richard
    I have two questions for you:

    1) Do you think that even in the case our government decide (decided) to attack, the leak of this document (that btw even a kid could have write) would stand any chance to affect the final decision?
    What in your opinion can be the possible result of your act?
    Do you think that by blackmailing our government to disclose such information you will change their mind?

    2) Don’t you think that with the release of this document you are putting at risk our soldier’s and citizens life?
    Let’s do the hypothesis that your document really contained some sensitive information – why would you decide to disclose them giving the enemy an eventual strategic advantage?

    I appreciate your reply.
    Thanks
    D

    1. that btw even a kid could have write

      So you’re essentially conceding that the actual Israeli national security advisor or IDF officer who compiled this document wrote it no better than a child could? When you write such nonsense you can’t be taken seriously. I’ve vetted this with an American and Israeli national security expert who both confirm it is authentic. Please don’t embarrass yourself by claiming you know better than two individuals with 11 decades between them in this field.

        1. They both believe that this is a genuine document produced by Israel to sell a war against Iran. And one of them shared the document with individuals with even more specialized expertise in this field than he had (and his is pretty impressive).

          1. And all we have to “confirm” this is your word, which isn’t really worth much at this point, right?

            So, to review:

            1. you say this is true
            2. you base this on the “verification” of “experts”
            3. you say these are “experts” and that they “verified”

            So basically…all you’re saying is…”believe me because I say it is true”. Really?

          2. And you still didn’t answer to my questions….just to be clear they were:

            1) Do you think that even in the case our government decide (decided) to attack, the leak of this document (that btw even a kid could have write) would stand any chance to affect the final decision?
            What in your opinion can be the possible result of your act?
            Do you think that by blackmailing our government to disclose such information you will change their mind?

            2) Don’t you think that with the release of this document you are putting at risk our soldier’s and citizens life?
            Let’s do the hypothesis that your document really contained some sensitive information – why would you decide to disclose them giving the enemy an eventual strategic advantage?

            and btw…where do you live?

          3. Do you think that even in the case our government decide (decided) to attack, the leak of this document (that btw even a kid could have write) would stand any chance to affect the final decision?

            Maybe.

            Do you think that by blackmailing our government to disclose such information you will change their mind?

            I didn’t blackmail anyone. That’s not what journalism or publishing leaks is. Rather, it’s exposing the secrets of those who would prefer their plans remain out of public view. That’s the opposite of blackmail. It’s a public service. Since you don’t believe in or understand democracy, you don’t understand this principle.

            Don’t you think that with the release of this document you are putting at risk our soldier’s and citizens life?

            You mean any more so than Bibi & Barak are by possibly sending them to bomb Iran? No.

            why would you decide to disclose them giving the enemy an eventual strategic advantage?

            If I gave the enemy anything, the Israeli government would be screaming bloody murder, calling me an enemy of the Jewish people, etc. Instead they remain virtually silent. Silence speaks volumes.

      1. Richard
        I am saying that the scenario illustrated is extremely superficial and doesn’t disclose anything new/incredible/surprising…

        I doubt that Israeli government can take a final decision, or even starting a discussion, on such document…if you think that, then you are even more superficial than I thought.

        It is pretty clear even to ahmadinejad himself that if Israel will attack will hit not only the atomic buildings but all the vital infrastructures of the country – so what? So fortunately your “leak” is not putting us or our soldiers in danger.

        The funny thing is that beside offending me you didn’t answer to my questions and this shows who you really are…

        or am I wrong?

  2. Mr. Silverstein,
    If what you published is true, you put the lives of 7 million Israelis at risk by preventing Israel from executing the attack and exposing us to Iran’s nuclear bomb, allowing their leaders to carry out their threats to burn and annihilate us.
    If what you wrote is true – you are nor a human being, certainly not a Jew. You are the lowest kind – a journalist – who would kill millions for a ‘story’.
    I think you should pay for this very heavily. Very very heavily.

    1. Not a word about the millions of Iranians who would be put at risk by an Israeli attack on Iran. Can’t spare a tear or concern for them can you? So why should they spare any for you? What shouldn’t they be as cold and bloodthirsty as you are toward them?

    2. I got a bit hesitant concerning my web friend Pat Lang over the George Zimmerman – Trayvon Martin case, but you, dear kalte Lokshen should consider this:

      This strikes me as an enormous conceit, the fevered imaginings of a military power that has never attempted anything of this magniitude. I judge such an operation to be beyond Israel’s capacity. They have no idea where all the Iranian nuclear facilities are located. Do they imagine that the desired degree of damage will be accomplished in one set of attacks? In the spirit of the YNET’s comment on General Dempsey’s Irish ancestry, I might observe that this level of grandiosity may be endemic in Israeli thinking. pl

      Several month ago by now there was a voice in his comment section that had just returned from Israel were he extensively talked with an IAF officer. The man very much confirmed Pat Lang’s position for much longer now that this is way beyond Israeli capacities. So my question would be who endangers Israeli people if this is not just posturing and trying to push America do do it?

      So sad you have no preview options, I better check my html tags.

  3. Richard

    I’ve read both pieces, and I can’t see anything substantive in yours which is not in the Forum posting.

    Might you not consider the possibility that somebody has set you up to discredit you, as was done with that Aussie Dave thing some while back?

    1. There is one clause in my document that isn’t in the Fresh post. That would mean, if you believe those who discredit me, that I wrote that phrase myself. Now, many have disparaged my ability to read or understand Hebrew and unfairly so. But I will tell you that I would have no ability whatsoever to write that phrase since my Hebrew reading abiilty is far better than my writing ability. So what do you do with that? Suggest that I had an Israeli write it for me in order to disguise the fact that I was stealing a post from Fresh? That’s rich.

        1. So you’re claiming that I not only stole the Fresh post but that I enlisted someone to conspire with me by creating a phrase that wasn’t in it. There’s a scientific theory that says that the most likely explanation for natural phenomenon is the simplest. Delighted to find that your theories of my perfidy grow more and more complex and farther & farther from the truth.

          1. You doofus – you used a translator, as you well established from the beginning (can’t bother to learn the language of the country that you purport to know so well?). She should be well equipped to fix that one error, and why not?

            The important thing is that nobody is taking you seriously – your “scoop” was no more than a scoop of dung.

            If you spent half the energy in actually debating the issues than in trying to get the media to consider you of any importance, perhaps you’d have a shot at some kind of tikkun olam. As it is, you’re leaving it well worse than you found it.

  4. This document is written in past and present tense. As i read it, i get the feel its a documentary like story.
    There is not even one sentence regards to the future, which is weird if this document is really authentic from an authorized personal or some kind of advisor, who compiles this text about an attack to be.

  5. Mr. Silverstein,
    Forgive me once again for disturbing you, and your site, and following this message, I promise not to bother you again(and therefore, please spare me the frantic shrills of “Hasbarafia”-which is even more childish than your above claims).
    I’ve already submitted a complaint to the BBC, and they have announced that they are taking this matter very seriously.(Perhaps, to the point of completely purging your “expose” from their site).
    Your lies, mendacity and verisimilitudes about Israel will be your undoing.
    Do us all a favour, remove the “I am Pro-Israel” badge from your pages; some might actually be fooled into thinking so about you.

    1. I dare you to post the precise reply the BBC wrote to you. If it contains even half what you claim I’ll eat my yarmulke. I haven’t even had a single email from the BBC producer asking for further authentication of the document than what I’ve already provided them. You’re a bluffer & not a very good one.

      1. Mr Silverstein,
        Since you’ve decided to address me personally, you’ll understand my breaking my pledge not to interfere with your site.
        As you well know, full processing of any complaint to the BBC, takes about 10 days. What I have received(so far), is what I posted: the BBC staff takes allegations of plagiarism and misrepresentation(as you have done, by lifting your material, straight off from “Fresh”) very seriously, and IS investigating.
        I don’t want to pre-empt any conclusions on their part, by divulging my correspondence with them, UNTIL the inquiry is complete.
        If you allow me, I shall forward my entire communication with them, to you, once it’s done, to do with it, as you please.
        You have, understandably(given your MO), denied the publication of my later comment, detailing how you were approached by “Ma’ariv”, to explain your deceit, and were at loss for meaningful answers; that, somehow, eluded you.
        Finally, Mr. Silverstein, it might surprise you to know that I don’t act on any of this out of malice.(Therefore, please stick to your regular diet; Yarmulkes are hard to digest).
        It is you who has sealed your own fate, by conspiring, through vindictiveness and lying, to publish any piece, be that it besmirches Israel.
        As you have fallen for one disreputable source after another(we all remember your Purim kerfuffle), it was only a matter of time, till you have further entangled yourself.
        An honourable man would, upon learning such dire discrepancies, at once apologise. That would’ve raised your claim to honesty, sincerity and bona fides. Since you had not done so, you’re now further embroiled.
        Expect my response with the BBC communiqué, as soon as it’s ready.

  6. Richard, above you say the “Fresh member wrote a largely fictional account that included very limited portions of the actual document which I published in full“. You made a similar claim in the comments of the previous blogpost.

    Given that the Fresh post includes ALL of your document apart from a few words, do you think that you should amend that claim? I mean, now people have posted the line-by-line comparison everyone can see this claim isn’t true.

  7. here in iran we are ready for every thing we are ready for war ,it will be very fascinating we can see how Iranian misseles go to israel and they convert israel to a great hole.you are think that when you want you can begin a war and when you want you can finish it?we are ready for anything wrong from you we iranian are ready for every thing we saw many wars and dont fear of any thing when you start the war we decide when it finish and the end is a very good world without israel and a great hole will apear

  8. Silverstein, if you have the original IDF document, why have you not shown us a single word that is not in the Fresh Forum posting?

    Why is the image you posted nothing more than the Fresh Forum post pasted onto Microsoft Word and recorded by screenshot?

    Do you think your entire audience is as stupid as the BBC?

    1. Hey smart guy with an MIT degree (and email address). You could compare the Fresh post to the original Hebrew here and see the following phrase isn’t in the Fresh post: וחלקן מתחת לקרקע כמו המתקן בפורדו
      Would you like to explain that? Or didn’t they teach you at MIT how to do close textual analysis?

  9. Hey!

    Well, I like Rihards site. I think much of the stuff he writes is important and that he and a few others, are lone voices in an Israeli politial reality that is far further to the right than even right wing easter european parties (not true I guess, as Israel Beytanu can maybe be compared to Hungarian Jobbik, but Jobbik is very extreme even for eastern european standards).
    However, I am sad to say. I think his critics, many of whom are very rude (though I can intellectually understand their anger if they share Israeli government political positions, though “daniel” was NOT rude, and did not IMO deserve Rihards angry reply)), are right…

    Yesterday when I read that English document I thought….Well, I thought this was too easy. Even as a rustic blueprint for how any future operation plan should be based (obviously this is not an ops plan as it covers…nothing in detail), this was just very shallow an very naive. First and foremost, while I personally despise most of Israels foreign policy (their tendency to shout antisemite to everyone and their dog that disagrees with their illegal oupation for instance), I dont think that they are mentally retarded. The document that Richard posted reads as if every single “hit” and bomb will find its target and that it will be a “perfect first strike”. This is impossible. If one knows anything about warfare one also knows that while an Israeli attack might indeed do incredible damage to Irans millitary apparatus and its nuclear capacity (or maybe not, but it might), it will not and cannot succeed in everything. This doument reads as if the guy who wrote it was playing a nintendo game, and not actually planning to attack anyone.
    Being Norwegian I have read the old Wehrmach plans for Operation “Weserübung” (assault on Norway and Denmark) when I worked at the homefront museum. I did not read the “actual operation plan” as my own command of the German language is far from perfect, but I did read the documents outlaying the overlall goal and various objectives of the campaign. And I have to wonder…Are the Israelis mentally retarded compared to the Germans of 1940? They surely must be if the document you posted here, Richard is the atual real thing. Its…It so shallow…It speaks of no obstackles. And seem so very unprofessional. In comparison, the German plans I read (even the overall objective document and so on which I read) , were intelligent, comprehensive and clinically logical.
    I would love to agree with you, richard, and I am sure parts of the doument is indeed some of the thoughts which is buzzing around in the head of some Israeli politico, but it does not seem like an actual military doument. More like the dreams of an armchair general on the internet.

    So my question to you, Richard, is if you are sure that you have not been used by your political enemies to pump up the belligerent rethoric to further “frighten” Iran? I dont know. But it makes little sense to me.

    Best regards, Magnus

  10. This is why I am inclined to believe you really have something–that’s how anybody who is seriously planning to invade Iran is thinking, alas. I don’t see why you continue to deny that the Fresh document and yours are both based on the same source, though.

    The BBC is not pulling back on you, though they acknowledge they can’t prove the document’s authenticity: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19274866. Also a very supportive story in the Forward, http://forward.com/articles/161227/blogger-publishes-israels-iran-attack-plan/. Otherwise response is basically blogs, including an interesting one at http://my.firedoglake.com/ctuttle/2012/08/15/bibis-war-plan-is-leaked/.

  11. I think Daniel above is on to something, however incoherently: there is something deeply childish about the memo. Not that it’s ignorant about geography or different kinds of hardware, though, rather a lack of human experience that reminds me of Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and Cheney nine or ten years ago.

    This is why I am inclined to believe you really have something–that’s how anybody who is seriously planning to invade Iran is thinking, alas. I don’t see why you continue to deny that the Fresh document and yours are both based on the same source, though.

    The BBC is not pulling back on you, though they acknowledge they can’t prove the document’s authenticity: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19274866. Also a very supportive story in the Forward, http://forward.com/articles/161227/blogger-publishes-israels-iran-attack-plan/. Otherwise response is basically blogs, including an interesting one at http://my.firedoglake.com/ctuttle/2012/08/15/bibis-war-plan-is-leaked/.

    1. I don’t deny at all that they’re based on the same source. The Fresh author was leaked the doc as I was & around the same time. But I used the entire doc & published it precisely as it came to me. I never saw the Fresh posting at all until well after the BBC story & my own post were published. Fresh created an entire fictionalized scenario & embellished the original. Plus he didn’t use all of the original document content in his posting.

  12. The dogs bark and the caravan goes on.
    1. Before the Six Days War (in which I fought), several ministers objected to the attack. Ben Gurion himself gave Rabin such hell, that the poor Chief of Staff had a minor nervous breakdown. Yet the attack took place on June 5, destroyed the Arab air force on the ground, and the rest is history.
    Now, when we reached Bir Gafgafa, we found the plans to attack Israel three days later, June 8. So Israel attacked just in time.

    2. In 1981, Shimon Peres, who now objects vehemently to the attack on Iran, also agitated as vehemently against the attack on the Iraqi nuclear reactor in Osirak. Luckily again, Begin did not listen to him, and the rest is history. If the 1981 attack had not taken place, in 1991, the Iraqi scuds falling on Israel might have had different payloads.

    3. Today, Peres (and others like him) also object to the attack on Iran. Some even allegedly leaked stuff to friendly bloggers who live in safety thousands miles away, such as you. Whether you are right or wrong, there is such a thing as Moral Standing. it is equivalent to Legal Standing. Those who won’t suffer the consequences of the decision have no standing before the court. Ditto re opinions about the attack. So, yes, you have the right to an opinion. But to publish documents that may interfere with Israel’s action is strictly immoral.

    As the Talmud said: Do not judge your fellow until you stood in his place. The Talmud also said: Before you want to fix the world, fix yourself.

    In other words: Mr. Silverstein, get a life of your own.

    1. Right on! I like the bit about Moral Standing. It applies exactly those pusillanimous softies like Richard, who far away in safety, yet think they have the right to advise and mess with the lives of others, while not suffering any of the consequences.

      The Talmud indeed had a lot to say about such people. I think the American term is wusses.

    2. no way….Mr. silverstein sits somewhere in its house in the USA and tries to build is “career” leaking supposed confidential documents of the state of Israel.
      I wonder if you would do that with US documents if you had the chance….probably no because Mr. Obama would throw you in a prison.
      You are the worst kind of people that hide behind the flag of “peace” and “hey I am jew too…” just for your own purposes….
      I hope our police will arrest you next time you put your step in Israel ….

      1. I wonder if you would do that with US documents if you had the chance….probably no because Mr. Obama would throw you in a prison.

        How little you know. In fact, I did precisely what you claim I wouldn’t do. In fact, a former friend did end up in prison for leaking such materials to me. I however didn’t go to prison. Unlike Israel, the U.S. constitution offers some protections to journalists that yours don’t enjoy. I wonder why that might be?

        I hope our police will arrest you next time you put your step in Israel ….

        You’re now banned. I don’t allow numbskulls like you to wish prison on anyone. Unlike you, I have a pretty damn good idea what prison is like & I wouldn’t wish it even on my political enemies. Since you would, go to hell…

  13. Richard. Did you remove Omri’s comment from yesterday. It was there yesterday and now it’s gone. Omri linked to Fresh.co.il where Fresh served their rebuttal to you. Fresh.co identified the real author of the subject post and he doesn’t appear to be your ‘source’. What’s going on?

    1. I’m not going to allow my site to be used to get into a pissing contest with Fresh. If you like that site my all means make your home there. But don’t bring the garbage it represents here. I have no interest in it or anything it represents.

      That goes for other commenters as well.

    1. The document was not classified and I’m not a citizen of Israel. Not to mention that the entire military intelligence community is opposed to attacking Iran. So I guess you’d have to imprison them all for treason.

  14. A hullabaloo about nothing. This is no government document. It could not be one. There is no operational detail/instruction whatsoever. It looks like the product of a kid who was told to describe how Israel would attack Iran.
    Having heard of you being quoted in the press, I thought you were a serious journalist with good sources.
    After reading this article, I cannot but laugh at your ‘production’. I pity those who take you seriously.

    1. Kalte Lokshen, do you realize that you read this post a year and a half ago and took it (or pretended to take it) seriously? You left a comment (August 15, 2012 at 11:37 PM to be precise): “If what you wrote is true – you are nor a human being, certainly not a Jew. You are the lowest kind – a journalist – who would kill millions for a ‘story’.I think you should pay for this very heavily. Very very heavily.” What kind of silly game are you playing?

      1. @ Yastreblyansky: Thanks so much for contributing to the ‘collective memory’ here & doing such terrific research. My guess is that Kalte Lokshen himself has a bit of memory dysfunction, not being able to keep track of his various “contributions” to various websites in the hasbara war for the “Jewish State.”

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Share via
Copy link