17 thoughts on “Turkish-French Student Arrested by IDF in Palestine – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. For a German non-believer it seems just very unwise of the Israeli Gvt. to create an unpleasant conflict with
    century-old churches. Who can understand the motivation for this “coup”?

  2. ‘… As has Bibi Netanyahu, who believes that the evangelicals will replace fickle American Jews as key supporters of the Israel Lobby on the American political scene…’

    That switch happened some time ago. Look at any of those 412-26 ‘we love Israel’ votes in Congress.

    Where do the dissenters come from? NOT districts with lots of Evangelicals — any such Congressman who did such a thing would be committing political suicide. Generally, the dissenters come from liberal, urban districts — and often, ones with lots of Jews.

    While some wealthy Jews seem to think they can bribe Yahveh with a large enough donation, the bulk of the demographic support for Israel comes from Evangelical Christians. Many — I suspect most — Jews support Israel. However, they’d prefer a progressive, secular Israel, with equal rights and all the trimmings. It’s the Evangelicals who offer Israel unconditional love no matter what she does. In fact, the more extreme, the better. It’s all just more evidence the end times are upon us.

    A lot of Jewish ‘progressives’ seem to miss this. Maybe they’re all tied up with some cat-fight at the Forward, but they just don’t realize it’s not all about them any more. It’d be nice if the American Jewish community was the foundation of Israel’s support — if they were, Israel might have to at least make nice.

    However, they’re not, and Israel can pretty much do as she damned well pleases…in case you haven’t noticed.

  3. Witness the African deportation thing.

    The number of blacks involved really is rather modest. If Israel had to keep them, she could…and if she were reliant on American Jewish support, she almost certainly would. To the political sensibilities of many if not most American Jews, mass deportation is appalling. Anyone doing such a thing would be hazarding all support.

    …but it’s not American Jews Israel needs to keep happy. It’s Evangelical Christians, and they’ve got no problem with the Philistines being driven out…none at all.

    1. Colin,

      Why don’t you sponsor an African migrant? There are plenty of them now, and the migrant will have a much better life in America than in Israel.

      Put up or shut up.

      1. @ Dr. John: No, I’m afraid it’s you who’s going to shut up. This is the second time you used the same stupid tactic (or maybe it was your hasbara twin who tried this on me last time). No one has to adopt any African refugees (and btw, use the false term “migrant” here again and I’ll ban you pronto). The problems all belong to Israel and must be solved by Israel. Just like the Palestinian refugees expelled via Nakba aren’t the problem of the UN or the Arab world. They’re Israel’s problem because it created them as refugees.

        1. Millions of African and Middle Eastern migrants are trying migrate to Europe and Australia, and that has nothing to do with Israel. These migrants are desperate to escape their countries and they are willing to risk their lives in order to escape to a better life. Anyone who is truly concerned for their welfare will attempt to sponsor a migrant and bring him to safety in Europe, Israel or the Americas. We can bash Israel or bash each other over the internet, or we could sponsor someone and really make a difference.

          We can fish or cut bait.

          1. @ Dr. John: Geez, I had no idea you were so concerned for the fate of refugees. That’s mighty white of you!

            that has nothing to do with Israel

            The 60,000 refugees who sought haven in Israel have very much to do with Israel. Israel has them. Israel has to give them refuge and treat them humanely under international humanitarian law.

            Anyone who is truly concerned for their welfare will attempt to sponsor a migrant and bring him to safety in Europe,

            Really? Anyone? WOuld that include you? So let’s see what you’ve done.

            Oh & by the way, who appointed you the arbiter of humanitarian refugee relief? The UN? Since when do you decide what people should or shouldn’t do? Last I check you were nothing but a 2-bit hasbarist. So go back down the hasba-rabbit hole from whence you came.

      2. ‘Colin. Why don’t you sponsor an African immigrant..put up or shut up.’

        Why should I sponsor an African immigrant? I’m discussing the basis of Israel’s support, and the implications that has for her freedom of action.

        Why don’t you learn to conduct an intelligent conversation? For starters, read my post.

      3. “the migrant will have a much better life in America than in Israel.”
        Now why would that be, Doctor John? Because Israel is a racist xenophobic nation, perhaps? Please enlighten us.

        1. I think that migrants will have an even better life in the Netherlands than in Israel or the United States. Less racism and xenophobia in the Netherlands.

          1. @ Doctor John: Then explain to the Israeli government that it should arrange deals to send its refugees to those countries. I’m sure they’ll all be lining up to do Israel a favor. Until then, stop with the nonsense. And let Israel deal with its own problems instead of foisting them on the rest of the world, as it’s tried to do with Palestinian refugees it created via Nakba.

            This was your last comment in this thread. I don’t like trolls and you’re a hasbara troll.

  4. Three posts you allow me? Okay…

    ‘…Such Christophobia may put a crimp in those plans.’

    Maybe. I wouldn’t count on it. Evangelical Israel-love doesn’t need to be reciprocated. It’s not based on that.

    The IDEA is that the ‘return’ of all Jews to the Promised Land and the restoration of Israel is a fulfillment of Biblical prophesy, and once that happens, all Jews will become Christians and Christ will return and it will be the Millennium and all that.

    Evangelicals have a real need to see scripture made manifest somewhere. Israel fulfills that need. It’s all got nothing to do with needing to feel loved. Jews can — and do — spit on Christians. That’s not exactly mighty fine, but it’s beside the point. In fact, it all kind of fits with an Israel resurrected in the Biblical image, and once that happens…

    Remember, these people aren’t stupid. They know perfectly well Donald Trump isn’t much of a Christian, but they voted for him anyway on the calculation of who they wanted appointing Supreme Court justices — Donald or Hillary?

    Similarly, expressions of religious hostility from within Israel aren’t exactly welcome, but it’s all secondary. The main question is whether Biblical prophesy is being fulfilled, and if it is, they’re for it.

  5. The property tax isn’t for churches who enjoy like any other religion from exemption but for churches properties where there are no houses of prayer.
    Such are hotels and other buildings owned by different churches.

    1. Ariel Koren I assume that even you understand that the churches have been there in Jerusalem for almost 2000 years and their “commercial” infrastructure was not established some months or weeks ago. Most of the hotels etc have been functioning longer than Israel ruled by “Israelis” has existed. However the tax demands emerged suddenly now, when Trump “donated with casino owners help the embassy” and gave “Israelis” the illusion that the whole Jerusalem belongs to “Israelis”. Maybe you can explain to us non-Israelis in details why suddenly the tax demands are made now and what is the legal basis for them. Certainly commercial enterprises there have been demanded to pay property and income taxes already for ages. So on what grounds were the Churches not taxed before.

      When you have made that “explanation” exercise you can continue explaining how much JNF (“Israeli” national Fund) pays property taxes for its wast land and property ownership (> 10 percent of Israel). To make it more complex let us know how much JNF pays taxes in Israel and in those countries where millions are “collected” form brothers and sisters in faith and other “business associates”.

      By the way in the medieval time when Muslims had conquered Christian areas, the rulers gave the full religious freedom to Christians and Jews, but these had to pay taxes for that “right” (Muslims did not have). It did lead that many Christians changed religion in order to avoid the taxes and the area became rather fast more “Muslim”. Was Israel trying the same there? We in the western countries must begin to use the “Israeli” tax policies and MORAL to fill the state’s and towns’ coffers with minority religion members money..

      1. Except that they were ‘dhimis’ {=secon class citizens} and depending on the country their rights were curtailed in many ways.

        1. @marty: That term is a staple of the Islamophobic far right. It is no longer used in Muslim discourse and hasn’t been for centuries. Don’t use it here.

          The rights and status of Jews and Christians under Islam were far superior to those of Jews and Muslims in Christendom. Far superior.

          And if you choose to go there…Muslims and Christians in Israel are that country’s dhimmis.

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