Suspected IDF child killer (MEMO video screenshot)
MEMO uploaded a YouTube video of the IDF shooting of a Palestinian teenager, Qusai al-Amour in the West Bank last week. The video was shot by Palestinians and begins showing his lifeless body just after being shot. The remainder of the video shows soldiers dragging him with his body and head bumping along the ground as they haul him to a military vehicle. The remainder of it shows army personnel wasting precious minutes fumbling with things which may be bandages. Finally, they remove a stretcher and load the body into the vehicle. Just before the conclusion, soldiers are seen firing shotguns and possibly rubber bullets at an elderly woman as she tried to approach the jeep. She is hit in the leg, wounded and limps away quickly as the firing continues.
An anthropology professor whose field of study is inter-ethnic conflict (and the various weaponry and modes of violence employed) in the Third World, wrote to me that he believed he’d identified the actual IDF killer, the sniper who fired the fatal shot. He noted that there were several types of weapons used on the scene. But the relevant one was a Ruger S-22 sniper rifle. The IDF is the first national army to adapt this weapon to military use.
After judging the distances from the “target” and viewing the various armed personnel shown in the video, he believes that the soldier shown brandishing a Ruger at 00:53 is the killer. An odd behavior he exhibits is that while all the other soldiers are moving with the boy’s body toward the road, he is the only one backing away, facing the opposite direction as he scans the terrain intently in the opposite direction, the one he faced when he fired the fatal shot.
One caveat: we don’t see the moment the boy is shot nor the actual shooter firing the fatal bullet. So this is an informed judgement by a highly skilled professional and should be treated as such.
But my credo here is that every killer deserves his day in the limelight. In recognition of this principle, I accord IDF sniper X his well-deserved recognition as a child killer. If any Israeli can identify him, please contact me. Whoever killed this boy is a murderer. Though we don’t know what caused him to be targeted, possibly rock-throwing, shooting a boy like this is murder, plain and simple.
Isn’t rock throwing potentially damaging and possibly fatal to the targets of the rocks?
What would happen to a man, or 17 year old youth, in the USA if he were to attempt to repeatedly throw rocks at the police or armed military personnel?
@ lepxii:
What would you prefer someone aim at you–a rock or a SR-22 bullet? I know what I’d prefer. As for rocks, let’s compare the number of Israelis killed by rocks to the number of Palestinians killed by IDF bullets. I’d guess the proportion is 10,000 to 1, perhaps higher.
If a policeman in the U.S. killed someone throwing a rock at him at a political protest he would likely be fired and face a multi million lawsuit against him, his department, and his city employer. BTW, Antifa protesters rioted in downtown Seattle during the Trump inauguration, throwing rocks, bricks and firecrackers at police. Miraculously, not a single person was killed. How was that possible? Because, while the SPD isn’t the most competent, it’s managed to find ways to contain civil unrest through non-lethal means. In other words, U.S. police forces don’t usually set out to kill protesters (though more are killed and injured than should be). Israeli forces do.
I previously posted stats regarding the rates if violence and murder in Palestine/Israel vs the US and other Western countries. This paints a totally different picture than yours, of Israel being a violent, dangerous place. And, the IDF employs many non-lethal means of riot control, which means you never get to report about an incident such as “such and such was NOT killed today”. And, police in the US are certainly empowered to use lethal force against violent protesters who resist peaceful arrest and pose a danger.
So assertions or conclusions that the IDF sets out to kill protesters is totally unfounded.
Your report is solely a function of what Daniel Kahneman describes as “availability” bias, and reflects your laser-like and exclusive passion for reporting of negative events in Israel but nowhere else.
@ Yehuda: Don’t repeat yourself. You offered stats, I debunked them. We’re not going over things ad nauseam here.
As for the IDF’s alleged non lethal means of riot control, they far prefer the lethal means and kill unarmed protesters daily. They use weapons never meant for crowd control situations. They use weapons meant to be fired at far longer distances in order not to pose a risk of fatalities; weapons which, if used improperly, kill. They use weapons even in contravention of IDF weapons policy which aren’t meant to be used at protests. The non lethal means like tear gas, Skunk gunk & rubber bullets have been known to maim or kill in certain situations.
POlice in the U.S. use lethal force in far fewer circumstances and almost never during political demonstrations. Any sniper who shoots a live bullet at a 17 year old boy is out to kill and a murderer.
You are done in this thread.
“So this is an informed judgement by a highly skilled professional and should be treated as such.”
and based on this educated guess we’ll point at a person and tell the world he is a murderer?
@ Richard
I’m curious 🙂 Is the anthropologist French ?
And lepxii ‘forgets’ that this happened in a village in occupied Palestine, the Israeli army has nothing to do there in the first place !
@ Deir Yassin: I’d prefer not to say anything further about my source since ‘inquiring minds’ like nothing more than to demean/besmirch such people if given half a chance.
So how can we judge the credibility of this source?
This is quite ironic as you have no problem publishing the photo (and asking for the name) of a soldier that your only reason for suspecting as the “murderer” is the analysis of this professor.
In reality, the only real evidence that the soldier was the one who shot the boy is the fact that he is seen carrying the Roger rifle. And, it is far far from being enough to even address that soldier as a “murder suspect”. Such accusations demands demonstration that:
1. The boy was actually killed by a 0.22 bullet (the ammunition of a Roger rifle) and not a regular 5.56 bullet. Moreover, the army also uses regular assault rifles adjusted to fire the same 0.22 ammunition (see link below). There are other soldiers at the scene seen there carrying assault rifles with telescopic sights. One of them might have fired the deadly shot-either a 5.56 or 0.22 bullet.
2. That the soldier in question was the only one there carrying such a rifle. No one can tell from the video, as there was a large force at the scene.
3.. Even if the soldier was, the one who killed the boy it still not necessarily a “murder”. The Roger is used because it is much less lethal than the regular assault rifle. The army has no interest in killing demonstrators because every such killing may induce further riots. For the same reasons, the snipers using it are instructed to aim to the legs (http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4349902,00.html). Therefore, it is very likely that the soldier aimed to the legs and missed, hitting a sensitive organ. It will not be the first time as most IDF snipers are conscripts with minimal training and given that hitting a moving target is not easy to anyone. So, in such a case it’s not murder but a lesser charge (at least by Israeli law)
Last, the soldier’s behavior is not at all “odd”. Anyone who was ever a foot soldier in any army will tell you that when a group of soldiers is on the move in a hostile environment at least one of them must face the other direction to prevent surprises.
@ Amico: That is false. The evidence I used comes from a highly reliable experienced academic who is an expert in the use of violence & weaponry in ethnic conflict (like this one). He analyzed the video and volunteered to me his view that this soldier was likely to be the killer. I have a choice of trusting him or you. What’s your academic or professional expertise in this field?
My source noted there are other soldiers at the scene with weapons who could have fired the fatal shot. But he also noted that this particular soldier was the only one in the right place in the video to have fired it. The others were not properly positioned to have done so.
As I always say in these circumstances, there is IDF drone & video surveillance footage of this killing. Go tell them to release it. Then you will ascertain to a surety who did it.
It’s not a “Roger” rifle. It’s “Ruger.” And the Ruger is misused by the IDF. It kills people just the same as any other weapon when used in the ways they did here. So it doesn’t matter what hype the IDF or you offer about it being “much less lethal.” Even Israeli tear gas can kill & has.
What a stupid comment. Of course it has an interest in killing demonstrators. That’s what the far right political echelon wants: dead Palestinians. The Israeli media is full of such cries. Maybe not 1,000 at a time. But a few a week or a month. Just to show ’em who’s boss.
An Israeli sniper sitting near his target “missed.” He shot the boy and seconds later he was dead or near dead and he “missed.” Really, I cannot stomach this hasbara nonsense.
Nor do snipers have minimal training. In fact, they have extensive training along with advanced weaponry, and this one performed his job admirably from the army’s point of view. If I’m wrong I’ll be waiting for the investigation charging him with incompetence or even a more severe crime. I’ll bet within a month or six he’ll be promoted.
Or to see if there are any other targets out there he may’ve missed…
“That is false. The evidence I used comes from a highly reliable experienced academic who is an expert in the use of violence & weaponry in ethnic conflict (like this one). He analyzed the video and volunteered to me his view that this soldier was likely to be the killer. I have a choice of trusting him or you. What’s your academic or professional expertise in this field?”
Well, your sources have been wrong in the past so to be able to assess the reliability of this source we need to know who he is and judge his capabilities.
My expertise? I am a psychology assistant professor (“senior lecturer” in the Israeli academic zargon) with more than 15 years of experience in research. I know how to critically judge evidence. I also have quite a few years of military experience, Indeed only as a simple foot soldier but I think I know quite a bit about how the army operates.
“But he also noted that this particular soldier was the only one in the right place in the video to have fired it. The others were not properly positioned to have done so.”
Sorry but that’s nonsense. This video only shows part of the scene. Your source knows what he can see but has no idea as to what he can’t see.
“It’s not a “Roger” rifle. It’s “Ruger.”
Oh my. I put o instead of u. Shame on me.
“And the Ruger is misused by the IDF. It kills people just the same as any other weapon when used in the ways they did here. ”
No, it doesn’t. It can kill but the odds will always be smaller than if it is an assault rifle.
“So it doesn’t matter what hype the IDF or you offer about it being “much less lethal.” Even Israeli tear gas can kill & has.”
You can even kill with your bare hands. So what? Tear gas, “Israeli” or not, kills very rarely.
“What a stupid comment. Of course it has an interest in killing demonstrators. That’s what the far right political echelon wants: dead Palestinians. The Israeli media is full of such cries. Maybe not 1,000 at a time. But a few a week or a month. Just to show ’em who’s boss.”
Sheer nonsense. If the IDF had an interest in killing demonstrators than many more were killed. In reality most violent riots are over without anyone getting killed.
“An Israeli sniper sitting near his target “missed.” He shot the boy and seconds later he was dead or near dead and he “missed.” Really, I cannot stomach this hasbara nonsense.
Nor do snipers have minimal training. In fact, they have extensive training along with advanced weaponry, and this one performed his job admirably from the army’s point of view:”
Apparently you have no idea what you are talking about. why don’t you read a bit about ballistics? Or, ask any American sniper (or even just an infantry veteran) what are the odds of missing the leg and hitting the stomach of a moving person. if the bullet will reach the heart he will be dead in seconds. I am happy you are so impressed with the professional skills of the IDF snipers. If you go into Israeli forums that deal with these matters (such as your favorite one -FERSH) you will see that Israeli’s who know the subject think otherwise.
@ Amico:
Actually, my sources have an approximately 98% accuracy rate. Nor are they likely wrong in this case. So I’ll measure my sources’ accuracy rate against your counter-claims any day of the week.
Which gives you special expertise to judge the accuracy of a claim regarding the use of military weapons recorded on a video, how…???
That means you weren’t an officer, weren’t a sniper, and likely never killed a 17 year old Palestinian boy. So your expertise in this field also is hardly relevant. Not to mention that I’ll bet your military service wasn’t recent, which would mean you aren’t aware of current weapons being used or how they’re being used or what the regulations are about the particular ones used in this case.
My point was that you were claiming special expertise regarding weapons and their use, but didn’t know the proper name of the rifle in question. Further, changing a single letter in a word often completely changes the meaning and can be a very big deal.
Not very easily. Which is why before there were weapons there were relatively few cases of murder. I’d be delighted if the IDF restricted itself to killing Palestinians with their bare hands. Further, the IDF doesn’t kill with its bare hands. It has a lot more effective means of murder & mayhem.
The IDF can’t be seen to engage in massacres. That would arouse international clamor against Israel. The murders & killings must happen in dribs & drabs. That way, it has the desired impact on Palestinians of instilling fear, terror & dread; while not eliciting a harsh negative response in the world. IF Israel killed on a massive scale then that would blow the ball game.
Take a look at American Sniper. American snipers appear to be able to hit their targets precisely where they wish at huge distances. Are IDF snipers that much worse at their jobs?
Fresh is NOT my favorite Israeli forum.
You are done in this thread.
How is an anthropology professor much better at assessing ballistic paths better than a psychology professor?? At best they both had high school level physics.
@ Jim: You clearly don’t know anything about anthropology and its various sub-disciplines. Instead of showing your ignorance you might want to do some research first. It will embarrass you less.