39 thoughts on “Home of Key Palestinian Witness in Dawabshe Terror Murders Destroyed in Arson Attack – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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      1. It is always great to see you have all the answers before even knowing all the facts.

        I’m sure being conspiracy theorist full time is exhausting.

        1. Assuming Ben Gvir is a liar and Arab hater isn’t “conspiracy theory,” it’s pure fact. But your defense of him sure tells us a lot about your own Kahanist views. Or are you just a Kahanist symp/fellow traveler?

        2. @Jack:

          ” It is always great to see you have all the answers before even knowing all the facts. ”

          The facts are that the “settler” movement is rabidly anti-Palestinian and “settlers” have no problem getting the army of occupation to attack Palestinians or attacking Palestinians themselves.

          The “settlers” are the culprits, plain and simple. Each and every “settler” has no right to any portion of the Palestinian West Bank, occupied or otherwise.

          ” I’m sure being conspiracy theorist full time is exhausting.”

          Good Christ. How can you not see the irony in YOUR accusing anyone else here of being a conspiracy theorist?

          You and that awful Morton Klein (and Ben Gvir for that matter) really deserve one another.

    1. We heard the same BS when Jewish terrorists set fire to Muhamed Abu Khdeir, that is was a family affair.
      And Ben Gvir is the defense lawyer of the prime suspect, who the hell would take anything he says seriously.
      By the way it’s funny, his defense line (according to your link) is exactly the same we heard after the first Baghdad bombing by Israeli Jews in 1951(cf comment section in the article on Iranians Jews): the fact that his client is now in prison is supposed to prove that he’s innocent in the first arson attack.

          1. @ Leffe: Or whoever you are: read the comment rules & respect them. If you publish comments that are snark & not substantive you will be moderated. Consider this your first warning.

          2. @ Leffe aka Barbar: Thanks to Deir Yassin for catching your sneakiness. The IP address 45.56.148.136 was used by both of you to post comments. That is absolutely prohibited here. You must have ONE identity. If I find you publish any further comments using any other than your original identity I will ban you immediately. Don’t monkey with me. You’ll regret it.

          3. @ Deir Yassin: Good catch! They used the same IP address as well. So it’s definite this ass is engaging in fraud. It’s funny because Leffe used a different IP address for all his other comments. But the most recent one used the same IP address as Barbar. They can’t keep their IP addresses straight there’s so much fraud & subterfuge involved in what they do.

          4. @ Richard
            The big question now is; does the IP adress belong to a computer in the basement of Hasbara Central or a private person ?

        1. @Babar (nice alt by the way!)

          Agents of the Israeli state were instrumental in engaging in specific tactics in order to try and facilitate the movement of Jewish populations in Arab nations to the so-called “Jewish homeland”. These tactics included bombings or attempted bombings.

    2. @Jack

      This morally reprehensible claim– anything to try and get illegal, Palestinian-hating, land-stealing “settlers” off the hook– was also made by the execrable Morton Klein of the “Zionist Organization of America”.

      Absolutely no evidence to substantiate such a claim. All evidence points to the culprits being illegal Palestinian-hating, land-stealing “settlers”.

      The only thing ridiculous that I see here is you and the likes of you pimping conspiracy theories to get your precious “settlers” off the hook.

  1. Richard – the gag order is routine (for the past year or two) and it covers any information that develops in the course of the investigation. They’ve been issuing these right and left on many incidents (basically just about any terror incident which is not open and shut), and they cover not what is known of the incident itself but of developing information (e.g. so and so was arrested. so and so was questioned) from the investigation.

    I wouldn’t read too much into this gag order at this moment – other than the gag order means it is actually being investigated (whether seriously or not – a different issue – but it means there is an investigating unit that asked for it).

    Regarding Duma – there are many discrepancies. The current court case is build on a confession obtained under torture (and which the defendant repudiated afterwards).
    In addition, there were reports of a few fires (in houses and in cars… and bear in mind that houses in Israel and the West bank are cement (or stone) and not prone to spontaneous/accidental fires) in Duma prior to the famous incident (involving the extended Dwabesha clan – which is a very large clan in the village). If there is evidence for a non-Jewish arsonist, this would weaken the famous case… And a Jewish arsonist would strengthen it, I suppose.

    1. @ lepxii: Your comment is typically vapid. You offer no evidence of any fires or arson attacks in Duma before the murders. You (along with Jack C.) thus introduce in a thinly disguised way precisely what I said the police would do. That means that you’re either a security officer yourself or doing their bidding. Or else you’re a fellow traveler. Which is it?

      As for fires in homes, anything that is flammable inside a building will burn regardless of the material from which the exterior of the structure is made. So if you throw a Molotov cocktail into a home it will explode and burn everything inside. Nice try though.

      1. See here coverage (Hebrew) of previous fires – of cars and houses.
        http://www.maariv.co.il/journalists/Article-495449

        Here Housein Dwabsaeh confirms there were previous arson incidents (all be it not involving loss of life) – (Hebrew)
        http://news.nana10.co.il/Article/?ArticleID=1144843

        [and yes – of course the Hebrew coverage may be biased, particularly by some reporters].

        Of course – this does preclude that Jewish “hill youth” are involved in the famous case.

        Obviously a molotov cocktail will ignite the contents of a cement (or stone) house. I mentioned this as -spontaneous- fires are less likely in this type of construction (they start all the same, less likely to spread and grow) – major house fires are more often arson in this type of construction.

        I was not trying to note that the claim of a additional fires/arson in Duma (which is a rather small village – approx. 500 homes) is necessarily valid – but rather this claim has been out there since the beginning of the coverage of the incident with the 3 fatalities (before hand – no one covered Duma).

        1. @ lepxii: Of course there were arson fires in Duma, likely all set by the same thugs who murdered the Dawabsheh family. They were in training for the Big Time. You don’t set a fire & murder three people without first learning your chops in the arson minor leagues. Now find any examples of arson in that village which were not caused by settler vermin.

    1. So, how many Israelis are serving in the US military? You know, being the valuable allies they claim to be.
      In particular, I ask that question of the Americans/Israelis who have dual citizenship. How willing are you to join the US – your original home country – in their wars, like other allies (NATO) are expected to do?

      1. I don’t have the slightest idea.
        However Israel and USA are very different in regards to military service. In Israel army service is compulsory; in the USA it is voluntary. In Israel most people served in the army, in the USA only few (compared to population size). Most dual citizens reside in Israel so naturally they serve in the IDF, but I happen to know a dual citizen living in Israel who does military service for the American army.
        In any case both armies work with full cooperation, train together etc. so I don’t see the deference.

        1. @ eli: That is not true. Service in the IDF is compulsory only for those groups who are expected to serve. This excludes much of the Haredi and Palestinian communities. It is also common for women to receive exemptions. So little more than half of those eligible actually serve.

          1. @Silverstein-
            Some of the haredim and Palestinian serve (druse Palestinian, Bedouin Palestinian. Christian Palestinian). As for woman there is an exemption for religious reasons although technically they are expected to do some other form of national service.

          2. @ eli: Haredim have only just begun to serve in the IDF after decades in which they didn’t. Their numbers are still relatively small. The number of Palestinians who serve in the IDF is infinitessimal. The Druze & Bedouin are the only ones who serve & that is historically due to Zionists attempting to divide & conquer the native Palestinians by choosing the smaller group to favor and the larger group to oppress. The British empire perfected this strategy.

      2. @ Italian

        Military service in the IDF for Israelis is compulsory.
        An Israeli could join the United States military, but only after he/she served in the IDF.
        That’s a lot of dedication.

        I personally know one Israeli who did serve two tours with the United States Marines.

  2. @Richard “…there is some form of collusion…”
    Let’s say that the facts from your sources are correct.
    But why do you weave them into a conspiracy theory? How is this different that the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, other than scale?
    In doing so you only feed into the various antisemitic tropes and comments (no I’m not accusing you of antisemitism!) that attract many of the assorted Israel haters who comment here. The way you portray it, (and it is interpreted that way by the people who comment) everything that happens in Israel is due to a large, coordinated and nefarious group of Zionist actors in Israel and around the world who conspire against enlightenment, justice and the Palestinian people.
    These same critics, who will attend boycott protests in Europe again Israeli “apartheid” and “genocide” will do no such thing on behalf of the Kurds, Western Sahara natives, Turkish Cypriots or various other stateless people. Not will they protest on behalf of Syrians, Yazidis, Iraqi and Syrian Christians or other groups who are actually being ethnically cleansed as we speak.
    This is not “hasbarist”. This is an appeal to fairness and perspective.

      1. Good advice, Elisabeth. I felt like reacting already when I read the “Israel-haters”, I’ll do some useful stuff instead, I’ve got some dish-washing …..

        1. 🙂 I did something useful too. I took Voltaire’s advice and worked in my garden. (I want to be in time with my vegetables this growing season, after starting too late last year…)

      2. I did not name people or accuse you personally.
        But, curiously, are you putting yourselves in the category of ‘Israel haters’ so that you are offended?

        1. @Yehuda

          Yawn. Funny how you scream “hatred” at even the slightest criticism of Israel or otherwise pretend that supporting Palestinians or Lebanese could be rooted in nothing but “Jew hatred”– when the fact remains that the most hateful, vile people when it comes to this issue are firmly in the pro-Israel camp.

          Hypocrite much?

    1. @ Yehuda: Don’t be a jerk. Israeli history is full of lurid, obscene acts of collusion between the State and various sordid elements, in which Israel has denied its involvement only to be proven to have lied afterward. From bombing Arab countries and even Arab Jewish communities to murdering Palestinians in cold blood by stoning them to death. So you call the idea that the security forces may’ve been involved in the arson attack a “9/11 conspiracy theory?” Well, I find that offensive. And stupid to boot. I have no patience for commenters who are offensive and stupid.

      I also love the argument taht I’m a very, very bad man because I encourage all the dim-witted unthinking anti-Semitic masses to weave together the worst things they can do or say about Israel. As if David Duke etc. are all my personal fault. Really, that’s pathetic. And stupid. Did I mention stupid already?

      Your comment is deeply off-topic. Your next comment rule violation will result in being moderated.

      Note that Yehuda, Jack Cohen & others have all coordinated their messages and mentioned either 9/11 or “conspiracy theorists.” Coordinated hasbara?

  3. @Jack Cohen

    The trouble with the quick turn over of hasbarists here is that they repeat points that have been extensively discussed before and that with an air as if they were the first ones to think of it. There is Leffe with his Moshe Gat, just a few weeks after the slender merits of that historian have been discussed (if it is Barbar in disguise he is acting even more stupidly than usual). And there is Jack Cohen with his call for “fairness” and “perspective” meaning that we should give full reign to a propaganda apparatus that none of the other human rights violators he mentions have at their command.

    So let me repeat in answer a point that has been made before:

    Arie Brand says
    February 1, 2009 at 3:26 AM

    Zionist apologists often come up with an argument on selective indignation. Why pick on Israel, they argue, whereas there are worse things happening elsewhere. In Darfur, in Congo, in Sri Lanka.

    Michael Neumann has come up with some excellent arguments against this type of defense, mainly having to do with the fact that high trees catch a lot of wind. Israel has set itself up as the only democracy in the Middle East and as belonging to the pinnacle of human civilisation. The discrepancy between these pretences and the actual reality of the place is just too flagrant.

    But I believe that something else is coming in here. And perhaps I can illustrate that with the French writer Julien Benda’s account of his main reason for becoming an active “Dreyfusard”. It was not, he says, because Dreyfus’ personal fate touched him very much. It was rather because he couldn’t stomach the fact that General Mercier tried to impose the “truth” “with his big sabre”.

    Something similar explains a lot of anti-Israel activism, I believe. What happens in Darfur is terrible and so is the mess in Congo. The Singhalese army is poised to eradicate the last of the Tamil Tigers. But neither the Sudanese nor the Sri lankan government, or one of the warlords of Congo, has set up a string of PR offices around the world and has thousands of pens at their command to ‘explain’ to the world that what they are doing is entirely justified and that, in fact, black is white.

    People get angry about human rights violations but they get even more angry about being systematically lied to. Human rights violations generally happen to other people and unless one personally witnesses one of these one’s concern remains a bit academic. But being lied to happens to (pre)activists personally and that arouses their rage and keeps it going. Mendacious propaganda, and being submitted to it, constitutes an assault on one’s personal dignity.

    That is why I believe Israeli propaganda to be in the long run quite self defeating. Those who have been lied to for years wake up one day and are enraged about having been fooled for so long. It happened to me and I don’t believe that my experience was unique.

    So let those hasbara warriors come. I have only one request: let them have a minimum of sophistication pullease because there is no satisfaction in rebutting the ‘arguments’ of the inept clods who seem to prevail in that camp.

  4. It was in fact Yehudah who came with this call for “fairness” and “perspective”. It is easy to get confused about the identity of these hasbarists because they all draw on the same handbook.

    1. They’re essentially carbon copies of one another, maybe with a few different “personalities”, all repeating the same boring, bigoted, debunked drivel over and over.

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