55 thoughts on “Death in Itamar – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Let us hope that some Israelis demand no more than “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. ” That is an ancient formulation INTENDED AS A HUMANITARIAN LIMITATION AGAINST the 100:1 ratio of death and injury (or is it 1000:1 ?) that the Israeli military often chooses to exact.

  2. Area C, the only territory the PA does control

    Don’t you mean Area A?

    I’ve had enough of this. Too much blood. Too much hatred. Let them fight to the death if they want. But I refuse to allow it to have anything to do with me.

    Amen & amen.

  3. Very few people were convinced of anything. The ones who are now crying for blood are the same people who always wanted to slaughter arabs. This incident is just an excuse. The settler leadership probably cheered when they heard of it.

    1. The settler leadership probably cheered when they heard of it

      That’s too harsh considering I’m sure they’re all wailing & ripping their clothing in traditional acts of mourning. As much as I disagree with the radical settler movement, their anguish is genuine.

  4. You say, “He killed because he has seen his own people slaughtered over the course of decades of Occupation; because he felt himself and his people powerless to do anything about it.” Capital O, Occupation? Please.

    You cannot actually be saying that you have entered into the psyche of a psychopath and know his sick motivations. Please, retract this statement. It demeans all civilized peoples of the earth. Powerlessness is not any remotely valid or understandable motive for the murder of children in their beds. Please correct yourself.

    1. You are right about powerlessness never being a reason for killing people. In fact, powerlessness is the very reason NOT to kill people. Palestinians have very little left but their power to forgive, and that’s something that can’t ever be taken from them at the point of a gun. It’s a form of freedom. It means acknowledging the possibility that people change, and that the person who assaults you today could one day be your friend. In murdering this family, the killer succeeded in furthering the occupation, which is all about keeping people separate and reinforcing the idea that hatred is inevitable. He let it take over his mind.

      The settlers at Itamar hold a violent ideology, and they themselves have killed and seriously injured people in the past. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that the murder of this family was a response to the way the settlers treat the local people (and the way in which that maltreatment goes unpunished). When people do terrible things, the reason why is rarely unfathomable. This should be a source of reassurance – if it can be understood, it can be stopped.

      Prayers for everybody involved.

      1. Vicky, I agree with all you said except this sentence:

        “The settlers at Itamar hold a violent ideology, and they themselves have killed and seriously injured people in the past”

        That is a libel and untrue!! Which Itamar settler killed or seriously injured anyone? You can’t just write things like this without substantiating it!


        1. How quickly we forget….How about this recent example:


          Itamar, its associated outposts, and the people who live there have a long and documented history of attacks against nearby Palestinian villages, property, and residents. Numerous complaints have been filed with the Israeli police, but they have been “unable” to solve over 90% of the cases.
          (see http://www.hrw.org/en/node/95059/section/8)

        2. I wish I could retract. Unfortunately, what I wrote was true. 0n 17th October 2000, a group of Itamar settlers murdered Farid Nasasreh as he was working in his olive groves with his family and other villagers from Beit Furiq. Five relatives who were working in the field with Farid were injured in the attack.

          Here is an excerpt from the testimony of one of the wounded men, Hasan Nasasreh:

          “When it started, Maleq Nasasreh was wounded, and Farid Nasasreh helped Maleq’s father evacuate him to the village by donkey, because there was no vehicle access from the direction of Beit Furiq. Maleq was then taken to the hospital.

          Five or six minutes after he evacuated Maleq, Farid came back. The firing continued and Hamdi Nasasreh, Farid’s uncle, was wounded. Farid returned to take him to the village by donkey, and when he was around 30 meters from Hamdi, a settler shot and wounded Farid in the chest and right hip. Farid fell immediately, grasping his hip, and lost consciousness.”

          Sadly Farid died of his wounds on the way to hospital because the ambulance was held up at the checkpoint.
          You can read the full testimony and a detailed description of the incident in this B’Tselem report, Tacit Consent.


          Two men from Itamar were arrested in connection with Farid’s death. They were released just five days later, with the police claiming that there wasn’t enough evidence to build a case against them. Compare this to the reaction to the killings of the Itamar settler family – the area declared a closed military zone, seventeen Palestinians arrested immediately, a wave of international publicity. Yet you hadn’t even heard of Farid’s death or of the spate of assaults that Itamar settlers have committed since he died – and why should you? Palestinian life is cheap and it’s not considered worth defending or documenting.

          In 2008 a shepherd named Yahya Minya was killed. Local people testified that he was last seen being chased by a group of Itamar settlers in a car. Others reported that they had seen a white settler-owned car in the area and heard gunfire, although they had not witnessed the shooting. Following an autopsy, the Israeli police declared that Yahya had not been killed by settler gunfire, but by shrapnel from a grenade. In the words of Micky Rosenfeld, the police spokesman: “Investigations at the scene confirmed that the young man was killed by the explosion of a rifle grenade which he handled and that he either found there or was given to him.” There was no further investigation, with the Israeli police choosing to believe that this man had ‘found’ a grenade (perhaps casually hanging from a tree?) and been blown up by it.

          There have been other assaults. At one point the Itamar settlers were releasing wild boar into the Palestinian fields on a fairly regular basis. Those animals are dangerous and have put more than one person in hospital with broken bones. The most recent hospitalisation I know of took place in October 2010, when Ismael Awad was attacked by boar as he went out to his farm. Both his legs were broken. I don’t know if the Itamar settlers still use the boar for this purpose, but in 2010 they were releasing them into the fields quite regularly, and the local people were absolutely terrified.

          After Ismael’s hospitalisation, the mayor of the neighbouring village of Awarta testifies that settler violence against property is also very common – smashed windows, torched olive trees, the usual sort of thing. That still goes on regularly. Itamar does have a genuine reputation for extremism and violence.

          I wish it didn’t. It doesn’t give me any pleasure to write these things.

          The reason I didn’t describe the incidents in detail in the first post was out of respect for the dead family. They were murdered. They may have chosen to live in a very ideologically motivated extremist community, but their lives don’t become any less sacred because of that choice. It does not matter what they thought of Palestinians, or what they did to them personally, or what violent activities they condoned in their neighbours. It was wrong for them to be killed. I was wary about writing the stories of murdered Palestinians because people might assume that I am trying to pit Palestinian deaths against settler deaths, when this is something I never ever want to do – any death in this conflict is part of the same tragedy. But you don’t start to understand the tragedy’s full extent until you look beyond these recent deaths to the incidents that preceded them.

          1. very good reply Vicky. I share your sentiments. Itamar may be chokeful of messianic extremists who look upon Arabs (and for that matter, upon most non-jews in general) as sub-human. They may even be rightly called “Jewish” Taliban, or terrorists, or ruthless colonizers. They may be misguided zealots and they may have even committed acts of terror themselves (as they did – which you pointed out). All of which would justify the harshest of criticism (and a lengthy jail sentence for acts of violence). None of which is a justification for murder. Not if one believes, as I do, that human rights top all other considerations.

            Unlike those in the settlers communities, now braying for blood and retaliation, calling for pogtroms to be perpetrated upon entire villages (“under the rubric of “price tag”), most of us on ‘the universal left’ do not believe in the death penalty, even when applied to clear-cut cases of purely criminal murder. Certainly an extra-judicial execution of for entire family has nothing to do with justice, no matter how extreme the anguish was that produced this act. If anything, we should use this as an occasion to clarify, to ourselves – as well as those outside our selves – just what it is we do and do not support. Acts of vengeance and terror committed as retribution for terror is never the answer. it doesn’t address or promote resolution of injustice, no matter how grievous. Executions are profoundly wrong, be they committed by soldiers, civilians, victims, persecuted natives, “jihadists” (Arabs, or jews), settlers or colonialists or however we call them.

          2. Are you completely insane? You grab a bucket of Palestinian accusations and treat them as G-d’s own truth? Here’s the deal – in October 2000, shoot-outs between the Arabs and the settlers were commonplace, the army was in disarray and couldn’t prevent them, the Palestinian spirit was “we gonna smoke the Jews out”, and the settlers defended themselves, sometimes more aggressively than required. To single out one Arab death, whose circumstances are unclear, and to claim that Israeli police has covered up the murder, is either bias or stupidity. Oh, and if you think that Palestinian tall tales about Zionist boars are true, you should be institutionalized.

          3. Are you completely insane?

            You have earned yrself instant moderation. Read my comment rules & read them carefully. Then after reading them respect them. If you don’t, you won’t be here.

            Here’s the deal

            You mean “here’s the settler deal.” Yours is a pro settler recitation of history which leaves out oh about 80% of the true facts of the situation. People who read this blog know this history far better than you. For you to claim for instance that settlers were merely defending themselves is not just a lie, but a stupid one. I personally know friends, Israeli and others who have been beaten up viciously for no other offense than attempting to allow Palestinians to harvest their own farm land. Far more than “one death” has resulted from settler homicidal rage in the W. Bank.

            you should be institutionalized.

            You use such terms again in an attempt to comment here & it will be you entering a special institution called “banning.”

          4. Arik, one of the settlers who was accused of shooting Farid Nasasreh bragged about his willingness to kill Palestinians in an interview with Keshev just one month before Farid’s death:

            “On Saturday, for example, Arabs came to pick figs in the field bordering ours. Of course, we threw them off. We annihilated them. They are not allowed to come up here. If they come nevertheless, we immediately call the army or the police. When the army’s out of the picture, our men take care of them. On Saturdays, we chase them by foot with hoes and axes.”

            If you had read the B’Tselem report (which details several violent incidents from Itamar, and not just the death of Farid) you would have found that quotation in there. It always puzzles me when supporters of the settlements try to make out that settler violence is just a myth, when the extremist settlers themselves talk about it. They’re proud of it. They don’t see a reason to hide it because they believe they are doing a good thing.

            I know that you won’t believe Palestinians, simply because they are Palestinians. That’s why I give you the settler’s own words.

            As for Palestinians trying to ‘smoke settlers out’, what they were trying to do was harvest crops on what remains of their land. There is an international presence here, organised by charitable organisations, that is designed to protect them as they farm and go about other activities of daily life. It’s gruelling and very upsetting work. I know people who are involved in it, and several have been physically attacked just for trying to escort Palestinian children to school.

            I see people who have been wounded and small children who are paralysed by fear, and I know what I see. That’s not insanity. It’s the evidence of my own eyes. I am a peace worker with an organisation that is 100% committed to non-violence. We want no harm to come to anyone – not Palestinians, not Israelis behind the Green Line, not settlers. But this doesn’t mean pretending that settlers are innocent and ignoring the damage and pain that they inflict on people. I work with some Palestinians who are seriously traumatised by all of this. There’s one teenaged girl near here who doesn’t talk any more because of the things that have happened to her. She has got no voice, so it’s my job to give her one. To you, stories like hers are ‘tall tales’; for her, they make up her life. And it’s a pretty crap life. Ordinary Israelis hardly ever hear about people like her, which is presumably why the reaction to such stories is, “Are you crazy?”

            No. I’m not crazy. You just don’t know the half of what is happening here.

          5. wow arik… that’s a whole lot of words for something as simple as “arabs are all liars”…

            Racist bastard.

          6. Vicky,

            I’d like to use this opportunity to say that each and every one of your comments is a pleasure to read. The work you do is extremely important and I’m happy to know that there is someone who is doing it.

            You just don’t know the half of what is happening here.

            I believe this to be one of the greatest, if not the greatest, problems of the conflict. Israelis either have no idea what’s happening or they want a Greater Israel. I’ve met no other types of people who support, or at least don’t strongly oppose the occupation.

            With idealists who believe they are entitled to the land I can’t argue, but the rest often admit their ignorance and are eager to learn. It’s best not be condescending and tempestuous while you do it because then you just lose your crowd. But I bet you already know that.

            Good luck!

          7. @ Vicky)
            Me too, I want to tell you how much I appreciate your comments. You really have to write that book one day. Don’t ever think of leaving us 😉
            sabr wa sumûd

        3. @Shmuel
          “That is libel and untrue”
          You need to be more careful about making such wild statements. If you want to know more about the violence perpetrated by Itamar terrorists against innocent Palestinians and internationals, follow this link:
          I realize it’s unlikely you are interested in any evidence that contradicts your racist views, but perhaps others here might want proof of Vicky’s claim.

          And while I lived to tell my story, I can attest to the fact that I was severely beaten and robbed at gunpoint by a gang of settler thugs from Itamar while I was helping half a dozen elderly women harvest their olives in Yanoun village, Palestine. My friend James Delaplain, a retired college professor from Wisconsin, was beaten so severely he spent several weeks in an Israeli hospital being treated for fractured ribs and a puntured lung. James and I, both grandparents, had not expected to be fallen upon and attacked by a mob of screaming fanatics young enough to be our grandsons.

          1. I remember that horrible incident & reading yr description of it. Shmuel, you owe Mary a big apology. And I’m frankly offended by yr holier than thou attitude toward Itamar. The truth is that the very existence of all the Itamars is what propels & fuels this conflict.

          2. The truth is that the very existence of all the Itamars is what propels & fuels this conflict.

            While I agree that settlements are the core of the conflict I find this statement to be extremely offensive. What if someone said that they very existence of all the Palestinian towns and cities to be what fuels the conflict?

            Actually, why if? There are people who do say that.

          3. It’s patently self evident to most people that Itamar, not only by its very existence, but by the particularly violent acts of its own residents, propels & fuels the conflict. The Palestinians long preceded the settlers in the W. Bank. So their existence can’t be the originating cause of the conflict.

          4. @ Shai)
            “What if someone said that the very existence of all the Palestinian towns and cities to be what fuels the conflict”

            There’s something that I’ve missed: Palestinian towns and cities are being imposed on the Israelis within the ’67-borders, and populated by Taliban-like fanatics, some of them recently arriving from the Palestinian diaspora in Brooklyn and Paris ???
            And as those ‘hypothetic’ Palestinians would be refugees returning home – we don’t have converted Palestinians – the comparison would still be invalid.

            Sometimes your “cultural relativism” goes too far and shows that you’re just another ‘faux’ liberal. Sorry, but that the way I read you, and this comparison of yours is just too far out.

          5. @Richard & Deir Yassin

            I did not mean to say that I agree with these accusations. I am merely playing the devil’s advocate here: saying that the conflict exists because the settlers exist is a flawed argument. It takes two to tango – of course there was no conflict when there weren’t two peoples. There would also be no conflict if the settlers eradicated every single Palestinian from the occupied territories.

            The real argument is that the settlers needn’t be there – legally & morally, and that if they would leave, the conflict would be solved (I very much hope so).

          6. @ Shai)
            “It takes two to tango”
            Well, I do love tango – a big part of my paternal family lives in Buenos Aires 🙂 – and though it’s a dance where the male is leading, even dominating the female, it’s hardly a metaphor to describe the settler-Palestinian relationship in the West Bank. I think “Danse Macabre” would be more appropriate 🙁

        4. Oh please. The settlers of Itamar hold the exact same racist, homicidal ideology of those of Yitzhar, Tapuach & other places whose residents have indeed murdered in cold blood.

          THat doesn’t justify murdering babies in their beds. But to claim or pretend that Itamar is a settlement of choir boys & girls is utter nonsense.

          And don’t you dare demand anything of anyone here. This isn’t your courtroom & you’re not facing defenceless Palestinian prisoners.

    2. If this Palestinian killer was a pschopath do you concede that the IDF soldiers who kill civilians are psychopaths as well? And that all the great Zionist leaders fr Ben Tzvi (who actually ordered the murder of Jewish opponents as well) Shamir who committed equally horrific acts of Jewish terror were psychopaths too? If not then you’re an ahistorical hypocrite. TERROR I’m sorry to say is very much a 2 way street as far as the I-P conflict is concerned

  5. Bibi has announced he will build 500 new settlement houses as punishment. I find this sickening and truly pathetic. What is the point of such a stupid retaliation move? Find the killers of these innocent children, punish them.

    1. It’s a good excuse to please the settlers, who have been criticizing Bibi a lot lately. Also Israeli public probably sees this as a “peaceful” retaliation, so most people are happy with it; it “reinforces” Israel’s determination not to give in to terror, etc.

      But yes, it is sad that an incident that’s harmful to peace by itself results in a decision that makes things even worse. Bibi probably wants to expand as much as possible before negotiations resume so whatever % of it the Palestinians agree to concede will count for more land.

  6. “It demeans all civilized peoples of the earth.”

    I can’t think of a civilization, certainly not an advanced capitalist one, where non-military targets are repudiated as a rule. There might be a cultural toolkit to talk ourselves into believing we’re civilized (i.e. respect human life more than “they”); when you kill people from the air and possess nuclear bombs, savagery starts looking attractive.

    1. Yes, civilized peoples can do evil, even great evil. We need to constantly seek civilized justice and diplomacy and not condone any culture of non-judicial retaliation, whether civilian or military, massive, precise, monetary or now structural. Retaliation outside of a justice system is not effective and even within a justice system it is rarely practiced today because it just does not work.

  7. [propaganda, point-scoring & grandstanding violates the comment rules–read & follow them or your privileges may be further restricted]

    1. Do not post grisly propaganda images here. Anyone here can post competing images of dead Arab babies. We’ve all seen ’em. It’s the pornography of hatred & blood vengeance. What does it prove?

      Again, read my comment rules so you don’t waste our time doing things that hundreds before you have attempted. No propaganda URLs (left or right) & no propaganda images.

  8. And lest the Israeli right think that tragedies like these will increase support for their nationalist cause, they are wrong. [..]But this will be followed by general revulsion by many moderate individuals

    I wish you were right, but people simply dont work this way. I’m 27, and i dont know anyone who didnt lost a friend or a relative in a war or in a terror attack, and this unfortunatly only has made israel what it is – a country which is dominated byavigdor liberman.
    What we see here is a snowball of people becoming more and more right winged, and selecting extremely right leaders, who convince their voters to become even more nationalist, and when people here wake up at the morning , to pictures of 3 dead children – it only makes them think bib and liberman are right, and theres no one to talk to on other side. Unfortunatly palestinian leaders contribute to this as well, when one of the hamas leaders tells the news any settle is a legitime target for such an attack.

  9. This is garbage!!! How can you compare? When do you find Jews invading the homes of sleeping Arab families and brutally murdering a father cradling an innocent newborn!!

    This is an evil act performed by an evil person!!!

    1. Actually, I’ve written about a number of attacks in which the IDF barged into an innocent Palestinian’s bedroom & murdered him in cold blood. Why do you not pay attention to these acts & only when Jews are killed in cold blood?

  10. I’d prefer not talking of a “terrorist” who killed the Fogel family. He (or she) is just a murderer. Thats the correct term for this appalling case.
    The difference is that the term “terrorist” is and was too often misused and effectually reinterpreted by the official israeli side by means of creating the notion that any violance stemming from palestinians is criminal, not justifiable and therefor terrorism.

    1. A person can be both a terrorist and a murderer, and this guy earned both titles. Are you insinuating the murder of 5 persons in their beds is not criminal and is justifiable?

      1. Anything is justifiable. Some people who don’t kill themselves make a living justifying the murder of others.

  11. So, five Jews are dead who were alive only the day before. And before that it was five Muslims and before that it was five Christians and before that it was five other people. If you look back along the wide curve of human history and count all those who have lost their lives in such a manner, you will see a line stretching as far as the very beginnings of time itself.
    Yet, why this should always be the case? Why can’t we seem to do anything to prevent that line becoming ever longer, ever more a reminder of how powerless we are in such circumstances?
    Is there some immutable law that says individuals and groups of otherwise quite ordinary persons are destined to end their lives in this way? If so, what is this monstrous law and who now subscribes to it?

    Well, we all do, actually.

    The law is called the Territorial Imperative; ‘what we have, we hold’ – and if we need more, we’ll find some way and, if necessary, any way to get it. This has been in operation for as long as mankind has walked this earth; a reflex action, common in everyone, a response to the fact of our being on this planet. At first it was confined to isolated sectors; families, small gatherings, tribes; then it went all the way up to principalities, states, whole nations. Even continents are not immune from this law; its hold has become too tenacious and too deep to allow for any means of successful release.

    How then are we to proceed?
    We cannot ignore the imperative, nor can it be removed. It follows then that all we can do is to follow its dictates, endure its consequences and try to make the best of a bad situation.

    But how can we ever do that if we cannot know or even sense what our best is?

    In this matter between Israelis and Palestinians, over six decades of deliberation have furnished us with nothing of lasting consequence. There has never been any feeling of real achievement, no end in sight to this constant war of attrition and violent death.

    Let’s admit we’re doing something wrong, that some aspect of this whole affair still eludes us and, until we find it, no chance to resolve the matter remains even remotely viable.

    As you all must know by now, three days ago, Japan suffered one of its worst nightmares within living memory. And it’s not over yet.
    The rest of the world has responded by sending aid and assistance to alleviate some of the massive tragedy but more, much more will be needed. It seems we all instinctively know what to do and what is expected of us when this type of scenario presents itself. Only three days have passed and all human and material resources that can be mustered are winging their way to the site of this disaster.

    Three days. More than sixty years have passed since another disaster made itself known to the world and what has been the world’s response?
    We vacillate, we debate, we temporise, we throw money at the problem, we have talks, we have talks about talks, we procrastinate, we dither, we make decisions to no effect and, what is worse, have become used to them producing only that same result.

    In some ways, a force of nature, one that dwarfs all others, is something we can handle or, at least, respond to as a race, with the full spectrum of humanity engaged.
    But if the subject is more intangible, a choice to be made between one side or another, a preference for this narrative or that, then somehow we tend to falter, to be unsure of what to do. Perhaps, we just hope that someone else will be around to sort out what it is we cannot.

    Unfortunately, no one else is available just now. Nor have they ever been. Nor will they. There is only us and, to date, our record here has not had all that much to commend it.

    Think of all this as a very big earthquake, bigger than a force 9, with lots of tsunamis in its wake, continually battering those populations in its path.

    Do we still dither about what action we should take? Are we hesitant in our haste to confront the danger? Will our response be adequate, effective? Do we have faith in our ability to get the job done?

    Well, whatever it is we do, it would be best to do it soon. And it would be best to do it BIG.
    Earthquakes, tsunamis and the situation facing all of us in the Middle East will not be deterred by the constant stream of small stuff that we appear ever content to throw at them. Big problems demand big solutions.

  12. Moshiach is ready to go to the Holy Land to usher in an age of peace but some groups don’t want him there because he threatens their power structures, thus the violence will continue.

    Prayers for the Fogel family.

        1. That is off topic, way off topic. If you want to comment here observe the commet rules.

          I’ll let you know when, if ever I want to discuss Maimonides 12 Articles of Faith. Till then stay on topic & no proselytizing.

  13. The pain in innocent deaths is so horriffic.
    One cannot even begin to digest what has happened, and what will happen as a result of the terrible murders of a
    Until two people of different beliefs are able to sit down
    together and “talk” . THe pain will continue. The results
    of fighting is nothing. It is not “the people” of the land who
    are mistaken, it is their governments.

    I pray that something will change.

    1. Again, totally off topic. I will NOT let you hijack the comment threads here. Once again you prove that you’ve neither read the comment threads nor respected them.

      You serve on the Detroit Jewish Community Relations Council, the pro-Israel political advocacy arm of the Jewish federation. All you’ve proven is that you can cut & paste items they give you picked up fr. all sorts of anti-jihadi sites like MEMRI & Palestine Media Watch or whereever. But that’s not considered a conversation here. That’s again considered point scoring and grandstanding. YOu don’t seem to understand the diff. bet. carrying on a conversation & engaging in political propaganda warfare. If it’s the latter you want, you’ll not find it here.

      There are plenty of commenters here who disagree w. my views but they’ve tried to absorb the style of the threads & adapted to them. You need to do more reading & absorbing & less pro Israel/anti Palestinian advocacy.

      And once again, as I’ve warned you–you will NOT post here in ways that violate my comment rules. Read the rules & you’ll understand the diff. between propaganda & political debate.

  14. Imagination is needed

    I can understand the settlers thinking it may be a Palestinian because of their limited sources of information (the army and their racist leaders) and (in general) their all embracing racism towards the Palestinians but I cannot understand writers and analysts jumping to this conclusion so readily.

    The settlers agenda for believing its ‘their enemy’ is obvious. It would be infinitely more disconcerting and frightening to their daily lives if it was not a Palestinian.
    Furthermore it strengthens their identity (unfortunately) to have an enemy. In other words they need an enemy to justify their communities being what they are – Military monitored fortresses.

    However the agenda of journalists and media contributors jumping to the same conclusion is signatory of ‘war journalism’ as opposed to ‘peace journalism’. It incites unrest in the paradigm of the conflict which should not be a priority but certainly seems to be.

    Of course it could be a Palestinian, but it also could not be!!

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