42 thoughts on “Wiesel: Goldstone Report ‘Crime Against the Jewish People’ – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. it has long been obvious that Wiesel is a fantical Zionist williing to excuse any Israeli atrocity.

    So why the surpise about his denouncing the Goldstone report?

  2. Wiesel is also a Nakba denier–you can find his denialism on display about halfway down in this 2001 NYT column. And by that time we already knew enough about the 1948 expulsions to make Wiesel’s column inexcusable–

    link

  3. First: al Mabhouh had a role in the capture and execution of two young Israelis in 1989. The world is better off without him.

    Second: there is not one shred of evidence against Israel. You say he was poisoned; that’s also not proven. Other accounts say he was strangled or electrocuted. In a recent account, Hamas itself blamed “agents of an Arab government” for al Mabhouh’s demise.

    Third: stop throwing around the word “Jewish” the way you do. Who cares of Madoff was Jewish? And explain how it’s the “Jews” who placed Wiesel on a pedestal. He’s a respected Nobel prize winner.

    1. The world is better off without a lot of people, Jacob, including some in the IDF–should they all be murdered in their beds?

        1. Way to avoid answering the question. I brought up the IDF to point out that the category of “people the world would be better off without” includes some people you may find more ideologically sympathetic than al-Mabhouh.

          1. OK. You bring me the names or faces of an IDF soldier or two who kidnapped two people in separate incidents, shot them in the head, and buried them. Then we’ll talk.

          2. How about the IAF pilot who dropped a multi ton bomb on a Gaza apt. building toppling it & killing women & children (18 in all) in order to kill a single Palestinian militant. Could the bodies being buried in the rubble count as “burying them” & satisfy yr conditions?

        1. actually, maybe at least due process like they have in Israel. Not for the perpetrators of the rachel currie murder and anderson’s maiming but for the settler thugs caught in the act of killing or beating up palestinians. At least israeli due process include house arrest for arsonists. that’s a start.

          1. I’m not here shilling for Israel. I’m just saying that this terrorist wasn’t about to be prosecuted for his crimes by any of the region’s backward governments. No one knows if this was the Mossad or not. If it was, the message was clear: mess with us, we mess with you.

    2. If the world is better off without mabhoud, then by the same token it is also beter off without bibi and most certainly without criminal junta figures like ashkenazi and barak. It is better off without the likes of the killer of rabin and also without the pilot who murdered an entire palestinian family. Why should one spend his life in luxury jail and the other run around between talk shows? Those are just a few known murderers, using your own reasoning. Now, if the arabs had an outfit like mossad, would they not be right to use the same tactics you advocate? what do we call such acts – extra-judicial assassinations – or mafia-style wasting of one’s opponents?

      BTW, jacob, what of the murder of the Iranian scientist recently, who apparently was not even a nuclear scientist, but more like a theoretical particle physicist? and a sympathizer with the reformists, no less. All indications point again to mossad. How charming….

      I wonder who’s next on their list – goldstone perhaps? oops, I forgot – jewish “mosers” do not need to be “eliminated” physically. They just need to be ex-communicated like they did to Spinoza – the greatest jewish philosopher ever (IMO), and to tony judt.

      It’s good that the world is waking up – as Richard points out. Once mafia tactics are acceptable (as they seem to be to israel) it will be difficult not to be regarded as mafiosi. Far from admiration and accolades, murders like this will only raise the ghosts of count bernadotte – a peace maker murdered by jewish zealots – an act that to this day is admired – and justified in Israel – and only there. darn, had the good count been jewish, we’d all be still reading the books he would have surely written in grand tribal exile.

      1. Oh, give me a break. It’s not Bibi or Barak or even Lieberman you hate, it’s Israel itself. Bibi’s not the same man he was ten years ago: he has repeatedly stated he is willing and ready to come to the table without preconditions (both with the Palestinians and the Syrians). He cares about his legacy and, as the leader of a strong coalition, he will take difficult steps for peace (ie evacuating the Golan). If only there was someone to talk to on the other side.

        And please, this isn’t a death penalty discussion. If it were, I’d agree with you that Rabin’s murderer should be dead. And what is your feeling about Samir Kuntar, the guy who smashed the little girl’s head in in Nahariya, shot her father, got married in Israeli prison, got a university degree in Israeli prison, and was released in a prisoner “exchange”–for a couple of corpses–in 2008?

        And you know what about the Mossad? Unlike the Arabs, they don’t go after civilians. They go after the real bad guys. The Arabs probably wish they had an organization that good. But they’re too busy fighting with each other to devote enough energy to killing all the Jews.

        1. Wow, a Bibi fan on Richard’s blog. This is going to be interesting. You don’t even realize how weak Netanyahu’s coalition actually is. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1138141.html

          And your remark about the Arabs – which Arabs are fighting with each other these days? And can you explain your remark about them not devoting “enough energy to killing all the Jews”?

          I think you were staring out the window thru most of your hasbara lessons, my dear.

        2. Sorry, but THIS IS a death penalty discussion. To be specific: it’s death penalty without due process discussion. Which is why I brought in the mafia, because that’s what mafia justice is: execute first, then pass sentence, then wring hands. I object to flaunting of law and justice done in the name of US imperialism ( whether it’s death by drone, or by n”special forces”). And I most certainly object when done by Israel. It is wrong because it serves no good purpose other than revenge. And it compromises the executioners as well as their apologists. By definition, Israelis care very little about “collateral damage” and US cares little about wedding parties shot to high heaven. Being an executioner means you don’t question what you do – simply assume it’s the ‘right’ thing to do – just as you have justified. This diminishes you as a person and as a citizen of the west.

          You just did apologize for murderers (mossad) who showed zero regard for ‘citizens” in the past. That makes you on par with suicide bombers of pizzerias – after all, if there was one soldier sitting there who was deemed an “enemy combatant” or just “enemy killer” then presumably it’s alright to blow up the entire place. In the end it’s about the magnitude of the collateral damage, right? and if that’s the case, then barak, livni and olmert are fair game for retaliation, no? how many innocent men, women and children killed in gaza? 1000? 900? lots more than all the suicide bombers killed combined.

          Another example: by your own reasoning the bomber of the cia agents in afganistan was a truly heroic individual – note that no civilians were killed – only agents who were themselves responsible for countless innocent deaths.

          As I said above: without respect for law and due process, what we have is mafia-style justice. If you agree with it for your side, then you agree with it for your adversaries and anyone else.

          Hope you enjoy gang warfare because that’s what you are advocating. I am merely holding up the case for consistency.

          1. The targeted killing of Sheikh Yassin also took out nine bystanders. Sheikh Yassin never personally killed anyone, yet he was deemed so dangerous that he was killed by a rocket as he was leaving a mosque after prayers. A nearly blind quadriplegic, and also elderly, he could have been apprehended (as he was on other prior occasions) and put on trial, but apparently the government of Israel thought better of it, and whacked him in the same manner as a mafioso would a don in a rival crime family.

            This is a prime example of the barbarity of “extrajudicial” acts, the kind of thing a rogue state would commit.

        3. “And you know what about the Mossad? Unlike the Arabs, they don’t go after civilians.”

          Funniest line I read today!

        4. Bibi’s not the same man he was ten years ago: he has repeatedly stated he is willing and ready to come to the table without preconditions (both with the Palestinians and the Syrians).

          He has done nothing that would give his potential peace partners (particularly the Palestinians) any reason to believe that he is actually willing to make peace and accept a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. In particular, he continues to support settlements, particularly East Jerusalem settlements, which is akin to one nation saying it wants peace with another – while busily grabbing as much land as possible from that second nation before any type of treaty comes through preventing it. The other nation (or in real life, the Palestinians) are right to point out that negotiations merely come across as diversions on the part of Bibi in such a situation, an attempt to stall time while he continues the agenda of invading Palestinian land.

          And what is your feeling about Samir Kuntar, the guy who smashed the little girl’s head in in Nahariya, shot her father, got married in Israeli prison, got a university degree in Israeli prison, and was released in a prisoner “exchange”–for a couple of corpses–in 2008?

          Perhaps you should ask the Israeli government, since they agreed to the trade.

          And you know what about the Mossad? Unlike the Arabs, they don’t go after civilians.

          Is that their justification for the Lillehammer Affair? And before you point out that that was a mistake, remember that whether or not it was their target, they still went after a civilian and his family in a foreign country.

        5. It’s not Bibi or Barak or even Lieberman you hate, it’s Israel itself.

          I’ll tell you what I hate. I hate cant, hypocrisy, lying, distortion, putting words in the mouths of others that they haven’t spoken themselves. So if you want to continue doing these sorts of things yr shelf life here will be quite short.

          the Mossad? Unlike the Arabs, they don’t go after civilians.

          You might want to rethink that. The Mossad killed a Palestinian waiter thinking he was a Munich terror suspect (he wasn’t). The targeted assassinations by the Shin Bet also killed significant numbers of civlians (collateral damage for you). And why restrict this to the Mossad, let’s include yr friends in the IDF who kill a significant percentage of civilians in virtually every operation they mount incl. the Gaza war.

          They go after the real bad guys.

          An ill wind blew you in here. You are about as lame as they come & don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

          I’m tired of yr laziness, racism & general insufferableness. You’re done.

    3. That’s why there are courts my friend. If Israel wants to be judge, jury & executioner w/o any trial then it will pay the price eventually before the ICC. This bullcrap won’t go on any longer.

      Ah, yes the “not one single shred of evidence against Israel” routine. We know it well. The fact that he was poisoned has been reported in every major article about the killing. He was provided a drug that would emulate a heart attack & so delay detection of the crime & allow the murderers to exit the country.

      stop throwing around the word “Jewish”

      I’ll make a deal w. you. You stop telling me what to do & butt out of my editorial decisions & I’ll do the same for you. You believe that Jews haven’t placed Wiesel on a pedestal? Ever since he published Night he’s been the vaunted Jewish moral conscience. You sound like you’re too young to remember this, but beginning in the late 1960s the Soviet Jewry movement & Holocaust awareness were his issues & he was idolized by the American Jewish community for those concerns. This was all BEFORE he won the Nobel.

      And DO NOT monopolize the discourse. I do not take kindly to new commenters esp. w. views like yours publishing 10 comments in a single day. This isn’t a grandstanding or debating society in which you score pts for yr side at the expense of the other side. If that’s what you’re interested in you may go elsewhere.

      1. I’m sure if I were a new commenter publishing 10 comments in a single day saying how evil Israel and the Jooooos are, you wouldn’t have such a big problem.

        1. Look, Jacob, go read a few books on the conflict, maybe even some written, by, gasp, Palestinians. You don’t know very much, and we’re tired of knocking you around.

        2. What about giving a serious and thoughtful reply to my post, Jacob? Surely your number of posts does not really concern you, seeing that you devoted your present post to well…nothing.

    4. There have been many cases where Israeli soldiers (and sometimes also settlers) killed innocent civilians, often children. These people have hardly ever been prosecuted, and if they were, they were often let off with a slap on the wrist.

      Palestinians have done the same. In their case however, they have often been wiped out (together with their families) in so-called ‘targeted killings’. When you visit the Haaretz website, you will see advertisements turn up on the side, glorifying the units that perform these extra-judicial killings. I find this shocking.

      Extra-judicial killings should be out of bounds anyway, but ESPECIALLY if you do not bring to justice people who have done similar things on own side.

  4. Goldstone????? Why single out the Goldstone Report when it is so obvious that Israel has no high horse to fall from. Its entire history is that of inflicting misery and persecution upon the Palestinian people. Fascinating, the level of denial and the extent of the rationalization I see coming from famous Zionists, not-so-famous Zionists, and the Israeli government, and also in many instances from liberal, “progressive” Jews. Where the hell have you people been since 1948? Pull your heads out of wherever you’ve been hiding them, and look at reality.

  5. Given the huge power wielded by Zionists in the US can anyone be surprised that our “leaders” takes take their cue from Israel on these matters and now also are engaged in large scale “targeted killlings (murder) of people deemed to be “militants.

    Can anyone doubt that these tactics will be applied right here at home and not just against Moslem “militants” if serious unrest ever breaks out in the US. The FBI/Police vendetta agaisnt the Black Panthers during the 1960s whuch saw many of their leaders killed is a grim warning in this regard.

    1. Glenn Greenwald has some interesting things to say”

      http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/?source=rss&aim=/opinion/greenwald/

      I’m not going to get into the rather paranoid wonderings of whether or not “these tactics will be applied right here at home and not just against “moslem” militants” – yeesh, you mean it’s not so bad if the government just goes after MUSLIMS and leaves “real” Americans alone? But on the other hand, by your statement regarding the Black Panthers you are asserting that they already have been applied in the US.

      In any event, the question is whether or not it is legal, ethical or moral to blow off due process and become judge, jury and executioner. I say it is not. It is becoming a world where we are sinking lower and lower towards becoming the very same kind of people we call our enemies.

      1. Actually, I confess i had Glenn’s article in mind when I made my comment above. He made the case for the rule of law better than I could, but I have been working on a little comparison with mafia style justice for some time now. Need just a few more spices – maybe jacob can be the inspiration I needed.

        Thanks for referencing, mary.

        1. I read the article yesterday and it stuck in my mind, as well as something else i read somewhere about how Obama can order the killing of an American citizen on foreign soil if he believes the person is a terrorist.

    1. I beg to differ. Goldstone did not denigrate Jews. He told the truth about the Israeli government and its armed forces. There is a huge difference.

  6. My point in warning that allowing government officials to order the assasination of people at their pleasure is extremely dangerous and that folks who think this will only apply to “evil” Moslem “militants” are extremely naive. As John Dunne said many years ago “ask not for whom the bell tolls it tolls for thee”.

  7. I’m always amused by your spin Richard. Let me enlighten you to a few facts.
    1 Netanyahu, Israel etc. is never going before the ICJ.
    2 There is not a shred of evidence linking Israel to the killing in Dubai. Hamas which should know states it was not Israel but other Arabs.
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1146944.html
    3 Calling most of the regions governments backward is not racist. It’s a fact.
    Your “rules” are your method of weeding out those who oppose your views.

    1. Netanyahu, Israel etc. is never going before the ICJ

      And you know this how? By being clairvoyant? An ICJ judge? Prosecutor? International law expert? Propagandist? Ah, the last one hit the mark didn’t it?

      There is not a shred of evidence linking Israel to the killing in Dubai

      You mean other than stories in all the world media including Haaretz which DO intimate a link to the Mossad, including statements by the authorities in Dubai itself? One statement was released by Hamas saying there MIGHT have been other suspects than Israel. MIGHT. An earlier Hamas statement blamed Israel. Another Dubai statement stated Bibi would be charged if Israel was responsible.

      Calling most of the regions governments backward is not racist

      Israel itself is backward compared to true western democracies, not least because it has racist defenders like you.

      Your “rules” are your method of weeding out those who oppose your views.

      Then why is it that there are many who oppose my views who manage to avoid racial stereotyping of the sort you lapsed into? Your future comments, if any, will be moderated.

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