42 thoughts on “Likud Lunacy: Goldstone Liable for Synagogue Shootings – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. I think that the general atmosphere of condemnation of Israel can in principle cause an increase in antisemitism, so I don’t understand why such thoughts are labeled as outright idiotic.

    1. RE: “the general atmosphere of condemnation of Israel can in principle cause an increase in antisemitism” – Dan

      SEE: “LAPD view of Israeli organized crime”, By Kevin Roderick, 11/02/09

      Israeli organized crime activity in Los Angeles has gotten “a little bit worse” recently, LAPD terrorism chief Michael P. Downing told the Jerusalem Post this week on a visit in Tel Aviv. He also alluded to “a little bit of convergence between terrorism and organized crime.” But what was really interesting was Downing’s comment about that Oct. 29 shooting of two rabbis at Adat Yeshurun Valley Sephardic synagogue in North Hollywood, initially feared to be somehow terrorist or hate-related.

      After arriving at the synagogue, Downing quickly realized it was not a terrorist attack.
      “The two victims had been kneecapped. That’s not indicative of terrorism. It resembled a targeted, surgical strike,” said the deputy chief.

      “Within a few hours we were able to say that this was in no way linked to terror,” he added.

      “They were targeted as part of a stern warning linked to a criminal organization,” Downing said.

      Do tell more.

      SOURCE – http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2009/12/lapd_view_of_israeli_orga.php

      ALSO SEE – http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1259243055940&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

  2. Perhaps the “general atmosphere of condemnation of Israel” has less to do with the Goldstone report than with the Gaza war itself?

    1. Perhaps not only the Gaza war but also the continuation of the occupation itself, the theft of Palestinian land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and – one of the most amazing cases of “blame the victim” I’ve ever seen – this week I actually saw someone blaming Hamas for the attacks by Israeli settlers and Israeli police on Palestinians worshipping at the Al Aqsa Mosque. I guess the moment the Palestinians try to fight back, they’re to blame for instigating the aggression in the first place.

      1. The so called “Palestinians” (a virtually non-existent national entity) attacked Jews since they realized that Israel will be created. Why hasn’t been a Palestinian state created between 48 and 67? And why Jordan and Egypt refused to accept those lands in the peace agreements? I have no answer to that except that the Arabs didn’t give up the hope to eventually destroy Israel.

        1. Dan, that is ridiculous. There is so much Palestinian history that it is nonsensical to repeat the old Golda Meir “no such thing as Palestinians” song and dance. You need to learn history, not the Zionist version but the real thing.

          1. Mary, please be so kind and provide a reference to the “true Palestinian history”. If you refer to the New Historians (like Benny Morris), I am aware of them.
            (Richard, this is a genuine question)

          1. I think what is shown here is the polarity of views where we can see the mindset of those who would somehow connect Goldstone’s criticism of Israeli policies to the supposed anti-Semitic attacks at the synagogue. It’s unfortunate that innocent people literally come under fire from extremists. It seems almost as though Dan is saying that the Palestinians are to blame for the shootings.

          2. Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, Alan Hart, Jonathan Cook, and there are many websites with excellent narratives and links to Palestinian history, such as PalestineRemembered. Do the work if you’re really interested.

      2. The “Waqf” has a slightly different view on what has occurred there:

        “Heads of the Waqf Department have quietly expressed their satisfaction with the Israeli authorities’ recent measures against Sheikh Raed Salah, leader of the northern branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel, and top Fatah operative Hatem Abdel Qader, a senior official with the Ministry for Internal Security said on Thursday.”

        They just afraid to admit it in public.

        1. Anything JPost writes isn’t worth the virtual paper it isn’t written on. The fact that they claim an Israeli Arab has “quietly” expressed satisfaction with an Israeli gov’t action attacking the Israeli Arab community makes no sense whatsoever. So if you can find a credible journalistic source that quotes an actual statement by a named source, then we can talk.

          1. They’re a very right wing, pro-Likud paper that is the government’s most loyal servant when it wants to disseminate propaganda to the people. Richard, you’re right. It’s inconceivable that any Israeli Arab would condone or be “satisfied” with seeing their own people get kicked in the teeth over and over. But there are so many Israelis, and Americans, who actually need the phony news to help them keep on believing in Zionism. If they can be persuaded that the Israeli government is good and “moral,” then they can continue to look the other way and ignore the abuses.

  3. RE: “the general atmosphere of condemnation of Israel can in principle cause an increase in antisemitism” – Dan

    PLEASE SEE: “Poll finds U.S. anti-Semitic views at historic low”, Reuters, 10/29/09

    (excerpt) NEW YORK (Reuters) – Anti-Semitic attitudes in the United States are at a historic low, with 12 percent of Americans prejudiced toward Jews, an Anti-Defamation League survey found on Thursday. The U.S. civil rights group said the level of anti-Semitism matched that of 1998 as the lowest in the 45-year history of the poll…When the poll was first conducted in 1964, it found 29 percent of Americans held anti-Semitic views…

    …The telephone survey of 1,200 adults, conducted between September 26 and October 4… [PLEASE NOTE THAT THE ‘GOLDSTONE REPORT’ WAS RELEASED ON 09/15/09 – J.L.D]…The survey has a margin of error of plus or minus 2.8 percent and relied on an anti-Semitism index developed by the Anti-Defamation League and the University of California more than 45 years ago…

    ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/10/poll_finds_us_anti-semitic_views_at_historic_low.php?ref=fpc

    1. Interesting.. I have encountered many “progressives” who say 9/11 was supposedly motivated by the “Palestinian problem” or “the settlements” or whatever, so that sort of accusation would be in the same league as Danon’s.

      Similarly, it has been stated that the Operation Oferet Yetzukah (the Gaza operation) also would cause blow-back by increasing antisemitism in the US and that is clearly not the case either, just as general support for Israel in the US has not been affected by it, either.

      1. No, not the same at all. The stalemate in the Israeli-Arab conflict is definitely a huge recruiting tool for Al Qaeda and is a major plank of its political platform of hatred for the west.

        Nice of you to try to find a semblance of legitimacy for Dannon’s lunacy, but I’m afraid his comment remains just that: lunatic.

        Cast Lead HAS caused a huge amt of blowback in the U.S. Why do you think J St. is enormously popular, raising tons of money, & succeeding in pitching its view to Congress? The bollocks that was Case Lead is one major reason (there are others as well).

        1. Richard, it also is a matter of whether or not you find the US government’s al Qaeda myth credible or not. If there is an Al Qaeda, they’re probably most busy in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and not paying much attention to what Israel is doing. The US presence in Afghanistan, and all those bombings of civilians, probably does more to bring extremists together than anything going on right now in the occupied territories. I can’t help thinking that if there is an al Qaeda, they exploit the situation in Gaza and the West Bank whenever it is suits them, but right now they’re concentrating on Afghanistan.

          Cast Lead was the stupidest thing Israel has done yet. There is nothing they can say to change the reality, yet AIPAC has probably been filling the pockets of the US Congress with crazy amounts of money in hopes of getting the Goldstone Report completely wiped out. The US looks absolutely ridiculous supporting Israel now; Israel is going to drag the US down, and the Congress and Obama will stupidly go along until they find they have lost all credibility. There will be no peace settlement brokered by the US, that is a certainty.

  4. I think that the barbaric actions of the right-wing Israeli governments (most recently Lebanon 2006, Gaza this past winter and the nearly 3 year blockade, Judea & Samara virtually every day for the past few decades) can “in principle” cause an increase in disdain for Israel by reasonably civilized human beings.

    1. ‘Samara’ should have read ‘Samaria’

      P.S. Netanyahu’s selection of Lieberman, who once stated that “minorities are the biggest problem in the world,” exemplifies Israel’s tone-deafness in a changed world.

      1. Apparently, those Israelis who voted for Lieberman (a large percentage) are getting tired of the unilateral concessions which are being called the peace process.

          1. You mean like the way Netanyahu agreed to freeze the settlements?

            Palestine doesn’t need to make any concessions. The fact they are occupied is concession enough.

    2. ALSO SEE: “A New Generation Rises at J Street”, by Britt Harwood, 10/29/09

      (excerpt)…The only story Jones, now 24, heard while growing up in her tiny community–a story she now calls “right wing”–was that Israel’s borders included Gaza, the West Bank and the Golan Heights, and that Jewish identity was staked on the country’s defense.

      Her transformation from a conservative Zionist to a J Street volunteer is a product of the two years she spent in Israel. “I came to it from such a place of love and admiration and desire, and I wanted to just be completely embraced by my homeland, and all these romantic and idealistic pictures of what Israel was supposed to be for me,” she said. But instead of finding her “homeland,” Jones found the 2006 Lebanon war. The violence she witnessed deeply challenged her religious faith and her confidence in Israel’s actions….

      …J Street has begun to embrace this changing definition of community, and it has already served as a forum to allow diverse people to meet and share ideas. To Rachel Jones, J Street felt like home. “This is definitely the first time I’ve felt embraced by a community that feels similarly to me,” she said, “about what Israel is supposed to be, about what it is now, and about what it can be in the future.” For young Jews sifting through the complex landscape of political identities, it can be good to have a place, physical or digital, to go.

      ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091116/harwood

    3. What about the barbaric actions of Hezbollah and Hamas? All reasonably civilized human beings are being ruthlessly murdered by them, so what should Israel do? Turn another cheek?

      1. RE: What about the barbaric actions of Hezbollah and Hamas?

        MY COMMENT: Perhaps Israel’s right-wing governments will be successful in exterminating them.

        RE: “All reasonably civilized human beings are being ruthlessly murdered by them…”

        MY COMMENT: According to your “logic”, either I will be murdered by them, or I am not a reasonably civilized human being. Fortunately, I am no longer consider myself a ‘human being’:
        “The Swamp is my world. It is who I am; It is what I am. I was once a man; I know the evil men do!”

        RE: “so what should Israel do? Turn another cheek?”

        MY COMMENT: How many “cheeks” do they have? They can start by taking the ‘Goldstone report’ seriously.

        1. What barbaric actions have Hamas and Hezbollah committed, especially when compared to the barbaric actions of the Israeli government?

  5. Even if there was a link (I haven’t watched the news and hadn’t even heard about this shooting until now), what follows from it? The problem is not that Goldstone reported on Israeli war crimes–the problem is that there are violent people in the world, some of them anti-semites.

  6. In this particular case maybe it is not. But in general, currently there is a campaign for Israel’s demonization ongoing , using Goldstone report.
    And like any other campaign of this sort, it will certainly bring to the increase of antisemitic incidents.

    1. I don’t see Israel being demonized using the Goldstone report, I see Israel’s actions being described realistically for a change.

  7. RE: “Is it paranoia, delusion, obsession, desperation–or a combination?”

    FROM WIKIPEDIA: Invasion of the Body Snatchers is a 1956 science fiction film…Set in the fictional town of Santa Mira, California (actually shot in Sierra Madre), the plot centers on Dr. Miles Bennell (Kevin McCarthy), a local doctor, who finds a rash of patients accusing their loved ones of being impostors. Another patient is a former sweetheart of his; recent divorceé Becky Driscoll (Dana Wynter), who tells him that her cousin, Wilma, has this same strange fear about Uncle Ira.
    Assured at first by the town psychiatrist Dr. Dan Kaufman (Larry Gates), that the cases are nothing but “epidemic mass hysteria,” Bennell soon discovers, with the help of his friend Jack Belicec (King Donovan), that the townspeople are in fact being replaced by simulations grown from plantlike pods; perfect physical duplicates who kill and dispose of their human victims. The Pod People are indistinguishable from normal people, except for their utter lack of emotion. The Pod People work together to secretly spread more pods — which grew from “seeds drifting through space for years” — in order to replace the entire human race…

    WIKI – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_the_Body_Snatchers
    IMDB – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049366/

    1. RE: “Is it paranoia, delusion, obsession, desperation–or a combination?”

      FROM IMDB: PLOT SUMMARY FOR “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” (1956)

      Miles Bennell returns his small town practice to find several of his patients suffering the paranoid delusion that their friends or relatives are impostors. He is initially skeptical, especially when the alleged dopplegängers are able to answer detailed questions about their victim’s lives, but he is eventually persuaded that something odd has happened and determines to find out what is causing this phenomenon. This film can be seen as a paranoid 1950s warning against those Damn Commies or, conversely, as a metaphor for the tyranny of McCarthyism (or the totalitarian system of Your Choice) and has a pro- and epilogue that was forced upon Siegel by the studio to lighten the tone.

      IMDB SOURCE – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049366/plotsummary

      MEMORABLE QUOTES for “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”

      > Wilma Lentz: “There’s no emotion. None. Just the pretense of it. The words, the gesture, the tone of voice, everything else is the same, but not the feeling.”

      > Dr. Miles J. Bennell: “This is the oddest thing I’ve ever heard of. Let’s hope we don’t catch it. I’d hate to wake up some morning and find out that you weren’t you.”

      > Dr. Miles J. Bennell: “Drugs* dull the mind – maybe that’s the reason.”

      > Becky: “Is this an example of your bedside manner, doctor?”
      > Dr. Miles J. Bennell: “No, ma’am. That comes later.”

      > Dr. Miles J. Bennell: “I never knew fear until I kissed Becky.”

      > Dr. Dan ‘Danny’ Kauffman: “Love, desire, ambition, faith – without them, life’s so simple, believe me.”
      > Dr. Miles J. Bennell: “I don’t want any part of it.”
      > Dr. Dan ‘Danny’ Kauffman: “You’re forgetting something, Miles.”
      > Dr. Miles J. Bennell: “What’s that?”
      > Dr. Dan ‘Danny’ Kauffman: “You have no choice.”

      IMDB SOURCE – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049366/quotes

      * Mooser’s “ziocaine”? – J.L.D.

      1. RE: “a pro- and epilogue that was forced upon Siegel by the studio to lighten the tone [of the movie]”

        FROM IMDB: Don Siegel (Director of “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”)
        Date of Birth – 26 October 1912, Chicago, Illinois, USA

        Date of Death – 20 April 1991, Nipomo, California, USA (cancer)

        Mini Biography:
        Don Siegel was educated at Cambridge University, England. In Hollywood from the mid-’30s, he began his career as an editor and second unit director. In 1945 he directed two shorts (Hitler Lives (1945) and Star in the Night (1945)) and won Academy Awards for both. His first feature as a director was 1946’s The Verdict (1946). He made his reputation in the early and mid-’50s with a series of tightly made, expertly crafted, tough but intelligent “B” pictures (among them The Lineup (1958), Riot in Cell Block 11 (1954), Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956)), then graduated to major “A” films in the 1960s and early 1970s. He made several “side trips” to television, mostly as a producer. Siegel directed what is generally considered to be Elvis Presley’s best picture, Flaming Star (1960). He had a long professional relationship and personal friendship with Clint Eastwood, who has often said that everything he knows about filmmaking he learned from Don Siegel.

        IMDB SOURCE – http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0796923/bio

        P.S. Writing credits
        Daniel Mainwaring (screenplay)
        Jack Finney (Collier’s magazine serial)
        Richard Collins uncredited

  8. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/10/lapd-has-strong-leads-in-synagogue-shooting.html

    After determining that the attack wasn’t a hate crime and ruling out terrorism, detectives are now focusing on other motives, Wheeler said.

    “We are working on some information but I am not prepared at this stage to share that,” he said.

    Soooooo, let’s see, if it turns out to be something totally personal, what is Danny Dannon going to have to say about that one? That’s the problem with using an incident such as this to bolster your own agenda, when it doesn’t fit aren’t you under any obligation to say you made a mistake? What about if there is another incident (God forbid)? Do you just keep on getting to shout ANTI-SEMITISM, GOLDSTONE REPORT? The whole thing is ridiculous. When someone is obsessed with something then they tend to blame that thing for everything that arises. What a twisting, this being said before the police even had any suspects. Couldn’t wait though, had to grab the iron while it was hot.

  9. “And we thought the Republicans cornered the market on such nuttyisms.”

    Well, I guess that just shows the Republican Party doesn’t hold a monopoly on irrational bigotry, doesn’t it?

    1. I think Likudniks & Republicans derive fr. the same political gene pool. So the bigotry is part of their genetic makeup. Though I do have to say that some progressives can have awfully nasty, bigoted views as well though it’s not nearly as common among our side.

  10. Are we talking about the same “progressives” who’ve left a hundred million innocent corpses in their wake since 1917?

    At any rate, I agree with the rational element here. It’s ludicrous to blame the Goldstone Report (itself pretty ludicrous) for the LA synagogue shootings. Nobody knows anything yet and the cops are staying pretty tight-lipped. The only thing they’re inferring is that one of the victims and this black shooter may have known one another and had business dealings. The second victim may just have stumbled into the picture -in the wrong place at the wrong time. If this whole episode turns out to be drug-related, there’s going o be a lot of pie on a lot of self-righteous faces.

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