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Israeli Intelligence Source Denies Jundallah False Flag Story

israeli false flag

Israel's 'false flag' operation

Amir Oren published today a story based on a senior Mossad official who flatly denies the truth of Mark Perry‘s false flag report in yesterday’s Foreign Policy.  The Mossad source (likely either Tamir Pardo or someone very close to him) called Perry’s report “absolute nonsense.”  The source continued by claiming that if the story was true then Meir Dagan, who was responsible for the operation as the agency chief at the time, would’ve been declared persona non grata and warned not to step foot in the U.S.  I always enjoy non-denial denials like this because they usually make a claim that goes like this: if story A were true, then B would’ve had to have happened.  When there is no reason whatsoever that A ipso facto must lead to B.

In fact, in Perry’s story the CIA sources make clear there was a furious debate within the administration about how to respond to the Mossad duplicity and the Cheney pro-Israel forces wore down those who were critical of Israel’s operation.  So no action was taken.  In that case, administration officials had to decide how important this event was in the greater scheme of U.S.-Israel relations.  Around this time (2007), Israel was lobbying intensively for permission to attack Iran and Bush was giving Israel the red light.  No doubt, Bush decided it was more important to get Israel to stand down from this plan than it was to take Meir Dagan to the woodshed.  In other words, we had bigger fish to fry with the Israelis than this false flag deal.

But what especially irks me about Oren’s report is that he adds a dig against Perry’s credibility that is gratuitous and deeply insulting.  Interestingly, the insult is only in the Hebrew version (wonder why hmm?) and not the English.  Dimi Reider, in his 972 report notes that Oren calls Perry, an “avowed supporter of the Arab cause.”  His Wikipedia article notes that Perry was an “unofficial” advisor to the PLO until 2004.  How does this fact impeach his reporting on the false flag story?  Because he had some informal involvement with the PLO ending eight years ago, that means he has it in for the Mossad on this story?  C’mon.  That’s bush league stuff.  But unfortunately, this is what Israeli intelligence people and their willing collaborators in the media stoop to.  And I say this as someone who’s admired all of Oren’s previous reporting.

Actually, there is nothing in Perry’s story that would give you the impression he was a pro-Arab partisan (and by the way Mossad source and Mr. Oren, Iranians aren’t Arab, but that’s beside the point).  It is a very carefully reported story that contains no animus whatsoever against Israel, nor any gratuitous partisan statements on Iran’s behalf.

As Perry notes in his interview with Reider, he researched the story for 18 months, had six major CIA sources at least two of which still are on active duty.  He also gave both the CIA and Israel an opportunity to respond formally before he published.  Neither chose to do so.  So who’s right?  My money is on Perry.

Another phenomenon I’ve noticed at work here is that most U.S. officials, if they have to speak to the media about a story, will generally try not to lie outright.  They will dance around the issue and make qualified denials.  But usually you can decipher what they’re truly denying and what they’re implicitly confirming.  With Israeli officials it is quite different.  On a subject like Iran, where they wish the Iranians to know what they’ve done and don’t feel they’ll suffer for it, they concede their involvement by bragging–though they do it implicitly, rather than explicitly.  So Ehud Barak said about the Iran missile base explosion: May there be many more.  They said something similar about Mahmoud al-Mabouh’s assassination.

When they are involved in something which, if known to the public, might do some harm to their interest, they clam up and refuse to say anything.  This was the case with the Dirar Abusisi kidnapping.  In this case, Israeli intelligence was duped by Hamas into believing the engineer knew Gilad Shalit’s whereabouts.  So it kidnapped him and found out it was left holding an empty bag.  For this reason, it has adopted a virtual Wall of Silence around the actual kidnapping (though it has falsely accused him of being a rocket engineer and other tall tales).

But when Israeli involvement in an incident could do grave harm to Israel’s military and security interests, then it flat-out lies and doesn’t give a crap who cares or who finds out.  Lying in these cases seems to be SOP.  This is what happened in the Eilat terror case when Ehud Barak, Bibi Netanyahu and the IDF spokesflacks offered flat-out lies in claiming the Gaza-based Popular Resistance Committees were behind the operation (in fact, Sinai Islamists were, having no known connection to Gaza at all).

This seems to be the MO behind the current story in which the Mossad upper echelon is lying about its Jundallah operation.  In fact, Meir Dagan himself told Nicholas Burns in a leaked Wikileaks cable, that Israel was recruiting Iranian dissidents for sabotage operations.  But he never spoke nor was asked about the false flag operation.  That’s the only part we didn’t have explicit confirmation about (until now).

As the photo and caption I’ve displayed here implies: are operations like this not just “false flags,” but false to the flag and ideals that Israel represents, and are they false to allies on whom Israel depends for so much, and possibly even its existence?

{ 19 comments… add one }
  • You are quite correct January 15, 2012, 2:33 AM

    The “denial” is actually a non-denial, because it is predicated upon this logic:
    1) IF the story is true
    2) THEN Dagan would be persona-non-grata
    3) BUT Dagan was never black-balled
    4) THEREFORE we can dismiss the story.

    The “logic” of that argument hinges entirely upon us accepting that initial assumption as self-evidently true, when we have absolutely no reason to do so.

    • Richard Silverstein January 15, 2012, 9:17 PM

      This is way too silly for its own good. Do you even follow yr own logic? Of course the story is true. If it is not prove it with real sources & real evidence as Mark Perry has.

      • You Are Quite Correct January 15, 2012, 10:05 PM

        “Do you even follow yr own logic? ”

        No, it ain’t MY logic.
        It is OREN’s logic.

        “Of course the story is true.”

        And I agree with you.

        What I’m pointing out is that OREN’s argument to the contrary is nonsensical, because it requires us to accept as a self-evident truth an assumption (the USA would blackball Dagan) that is in no way self-evident.

  • ProudZionist777 January 15, 2012, 5:18 AM

    Assuming Perry’s story is correct, what harm was done and how morally culpable was the Mossad?

    Firstly, no harm was actually done to the CIA apparently ( as far as we know).

    Did Mossad put CIA operatives in harm’s way? The CIA put it’s operatives in danger (their trade, really) when the CIA contacted and aided Jundallah starting in 2005.

    So Mossad may have subsequently endangered CIA operatives who’s already had endangered themselves by their prior dealings with Jundallah.

    This is false flag ‘lite’, if that much.

    • Richard Silverstein January 15, 2012, 9:16 PM

      Why in heaven do you think Pres. Bush “went ballistic” when he found out about this little Mossad charade? And the pt is the Mossad nor you get to determine whether they damaged U.S. or CIA credibility. The CIA does that & it’s operatives wouldn’t have told this story unless they were hellacious mad, & they were. False flag operations aren’t kids play. It’s not a game. They do very real damage & cause future real CIA operatives to be placed in danger at the hands of future agents we may be recruiting who may kill them believing them to be frauds. Not to mention Daniel Pearl. Have you forgotten that little episode? Do you think the next American journalist or tourist or CIA agent kidnapped will be believed when he claims he is who he says he is? Or will he be seen as a Mossad agent because that’s what all Mossad agents do, they pretend to be Americans.

      This is the 3rd time you’ve made a very thinly supported claim that has been rebutted by real CIA agents. If you make it again you won’t make any future comments here. One important comment rule is NOT TO REPEAT YOURSELF. Is that clear?

    • Proud Zionist can't take it January 15, 2012, 10:46 PM

      “Assuming Perry’s story is correct,”

      A wise assumption.

      “what harm was done”

      Iran is hoppin’ mad about its civilians being assassinated on the orders of a foreign country.

      Mossad is trying very hard to convince people that this foreign country is “the USA”, when in fact it is “Israel”.

      The “harm” might therefore be that the Iranians start killing American scientists in retaliation for something that the Americans (a) have not done and (b) do not approve of.

      And you’re OK with that, are you?

      “and how morally culpable was the Mossad?”

      Here’s a concept for you to mull over: IF the Mossad is responsible for these acts of terrorism THEN Netanyahu should have the moral courage to stand up and accept full responsibility for them.

      And if he isn’t then you and I should both agree that Bibi is a coward and a scoundrel.

      Fair enough?

      • ProudZionist777 January 16, 2012, 4:24 AM

        If native Iranians are killing these scientists at the behest of Mossad, then the assassins are not likely Baluchi-Iranians (Jundallah) but ethnic Persians, such as MEK.

        Many more people are involved in an assassination of a scientist then the two guys on the Vespa; a few dozen probably and a few dozen Jundallah Baluchis wandering around Teheran would raise some flags (no pun intended).

        To wit: Mossad-CIA-Jundallah connection has nothing to do with these assassinations and Iran knows it.

  • chet380 January 15, 2012, 11:51 AM

    Remember the USS Liberty.

  • DanS. January 15, 2012, 12:23 PM

    Perry has been an apologist and shill for Hamas, Fatah, false history, Jew hate for as long as I have hearing his radical chic crappola – maybe I’m even older than him. Like Helen Thomas, he is a revisionist liar -he’s Lebanese too, correct?

    Just maybe CIA spooks and some State factions unhappy with Jews (traditional with State) decided to plant false flag info about the Israelis to take the heat off the CIA/State when and if needed – look when all these “true” memos were posted and look at by whom…… right: blame the Jews – plausible deniability by State/CIA. brilliant – use the “info” when necessary, like lately.

    Perry is as credible as Hamid the Liar.

    This “assassination” of a Basiji chemical engineer/procurement guy (?) is more due to internal power struggles and trying to set off a war for distraction by one faction or another. Maybe even Mousavi or Karroubi – after all , they ALL support the nuclear option, just each one wants the power and the money – maybe even the IRGC – or MEK. Perry is way off and was sucked in on this one – maybe he’s being played as a perfect sap to peddle the misdirection intel.

    Makes a great book, eh?

    • Richard Silverstein January 15, 2012, 7:49 PM

      Your comment is a hopelessly confused mish mash that is embarrassing to behold. Plus Mark Perry Lebanese? Are you drinking or on drugs?

      As for credibility I’m afraid it’s you who have none. I have very little patience for this sort of hot air. So consider yrself warned.

    • Dans Can't Take It January 15, 2012, 8:56 PM

      “he’s Lebanese too, correct?”

      Well, I’ve listened to his interview on youtube, and he sounds like a denizen of North America to me.

      • Richard Silverstein January 15, 2012, 9:09 PM

        I’ve talked to him on the phone and he sounds that way to me too. I think Dan’s had some bad drugs or something.

        • Dans Can't Take It January 15, 2012, 10:57 PM

          “I think Dan’s had some bad drugs or something.”

          Well, maybe. Maybe not.

          But someone at Hasbarah Central really should take him aside and quietly point out where his “logic” would take him.

          After all, if he insists that we can blythly dismiss someone merely because of their ethnic/tribal affiliations then that would also instantly disqualify:
          Alan Dershowitz.
          Daniel Pipes.
          Dennis Ross.
          Anyone who works at WINEP.
          Anyone who works at the ADL.
          Anyone who works at AIPAC.

          Precisely because they all have an obvious ethnic/tribal “bias”.

          Personally, I wouldn’t say that their Jewishness automatically disqualifies them from contributing, but under the “Dans-Doctine” I guess we’d have to tell them all “thanks for coming, but no thanks – you’re too biased for our tastes”.

  • Kalea January 15, 2012, 3:45 PM

    You mean Israel actually represents “ideals”? A state built on the murder of Palestinians villagers, on burning of homes, groves, orchards and villages, plunder of land and ethnic cleansing represents ideals?

    Speaking of murder. Let’s take a look at the fruits of Mossad’s labor in this latest incident, shall we?

    Here we have a father, Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan and his son Alireza:


    And here we have what’s left of Alireza’s father:


    I’m not sure what’s left of him under that sheet: a head, a torso or maybe just a piece of his heart? But even that won’t console the son he leaves behind.

    Israel has created many orphans and grieving parents: Palestinian, Lebanese, Iranian and others.

    Unfortunately, we’ll never get to see their faces or remember them as human beings with families.

    Let go, let go of that fantasy (i.e. ideal) that Israel never was and is still proving never will be.

    • pea January 16, 2012, 12:30 PM

      You’ll find a better photo of Ahmadi-Roshan’s remains here: http://www.irna.ir/Display.aspx?NID=030759751

      The photo you linked to was described in The Mirror as “A policeman checks the remains of a bombed car belonging to Iranian nuclear scientist Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan”

      • ProudZionist777 January 17, 2012, 4:15 AM

        Dr. Roshan’s baby face notwithstanding, he was part of the Revolutionary Guard’s civilian ‘goon squad’ the Basij, better known for it’s activities in internal security, law enforcement, social services, organizing of public religious ceremonies, and, more notoriously, policing of morals and the suppression of dissident gatherings.

        • Richard Silverstein January 17, 2012, 3:04 PM

          The Basij is a very large complex organization some of whose members of militia thugs. Others of whom may be nuclear scientists, in just the same way that Mossad, Shin Bet or Unit 8200 personnel may be thugs like Doron Zahavi or advanced programmers preparing Stuxnet. There are differences bet. such individuals which should be recognized.

          And if you accept the assassination of Iranian scientists then I’m sure you’d concede that Israeli scientists too should be fair game for Iranian intelligence or any of Iran’s allies. Do you?

    • Aonee January 16, 2012, 8:19 PM

      Where does this love and compassion for a human being go when suicide bombers kill scores of innocent Israelis. Even those ppl have children, don’t they?

      If everyone start renouncing their ideals (which they believe it to be true) then the world will be ideal not real as it is now.

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