40 thoughts on “Darfur Refugee Beaten to Death for Trying to Consort with Israeli Girls – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
task-attention.png
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.
 

  1. There are many thousands of African ‘economic migrants’ living in Israel, and Israelis, by and large, leave the migrants alone. Very few incidents of harassment or abuse.

    The culprits have been arrested and and charged with Manslaughter.
    What more do you want, Richard, a ‘pound of flesh’?

    While there is undeniably a racial component to this crime, it needs to be pointed out that many Ethiopian Jews live in Petah Tikvah and proudly call it their home.

    1. Finster: What dreck/garbage. Africans are not “economic migrants,” they are refugees. The victim was mutilated during fighting in the Sudan civil war in Darfur. And you call him an economic migrant??! If you use that term again you will be moderated. It’s insulting and blatantly false. Israeli Border Police routinely arrest & harrass refugees. They capture them and send them en masse to Holon in the middle of the desert. They force them to self-deport & send them off to African countries where they’ve never lived & have no legal status. That violates international law. You seem to forget the African pogrom in Tel Aviv in which Miri Regev called them a “cancer.”

      Your memory is like a sieve.

      What more do I want? A murder charge. And I want them in prison for a few decades. Instead, they will get a slap on the wrist & a few months or possible 2 years in jail. With time off for “good behavior” they should be back smashing skulls in a year or less.

      How do you know what Ethiopian Jews feel about anything? Including Petah Tikva? You don’t get to represent them, buddy.

      You are an unbeleivable shill. Not to mention that you published your comment within 5 minutes of the publication of the post. What a hasbara shill!

      1. “How do you know what Ethiopian Jews feel about anything? Including Petah Tikva? You don’t get to represent them, buddy.”

        I’ve been to Petah Tikvah scores of times, and never saw a Jew raise his voice, much less his hand, to an African. I’ve taken classes in Petah Tikvah and got to know Ethiopian Jewish classmates.

        You’ve been to Petah Tikvah how many times? You’ve had coffee with Ethiopian Jews how many times in Petah Tikvah?

        I’ve been an eyewitness to crimes committed by Africans against Jews in Israel, but never the opposite.

        1. Hey Werner, I live in Israel as well and have never seen any crimes committed by Africans against Jews…but know of plenty of stories of Israeli’s cheating Africans out of money/wages (you know for the jobs that Israeli Jews are either too lazy to do and/or regard as beneath them)…and have heard plenty of racist/xenophobic comments made about these refugees…and out of 1000’s of applications (never mind the 1000’s more that don’t even get processed) for refugee status, the state of Israel has granted next to no one such protection/status…if I’m not mistaken, only 1 person has been granted it…pretty disgusting don’t you think, especially as one would think the Jewish people know a thing or two about persecution/needing some safe haven…not so with the narrow-minded/supremacist Israeli state and the majority of it’s citizens

        2. @Richard

          No, Richard. Your memory is like sieve. Or you don’t bother reading your own links.

          Richard said: “Though the crime happened two weeks ago, until Haaretz published a story about it no one had even been arrested. Curiously, two days later the two suspects were arrested. ”

          That’s not what your link, Times of Israel, said.
          The Times of Israel said:

          “The minor was arrested shortly after the attack and Bershevitz several days later after refusing to present himself for questioning.”

          1. @ Finster: So you’ve withdrawn your previous lie that relations between African refugees and Israeli Jews are peachy keen. And now you want to harp on the fact that I made an error in saying the arrests weren’t delayed. So let’s talk about why 2 hooligans who murder someone won’t be charged with the murder they actually committed. And you want to gloss over this racism by claiming it isn’t because they killed a low-life African, instead of a Jew. If they’d killed a Jew, they’d surely be charged with murder. But of course, they probably wouldn’t have killed a Jew since they’re programmed to hate Africans (and Palestinians). Jews, not so much.

          2. A murder charge requires pre-meditation – ie if the thugs in question set out to kill someone ahead of time (“willful and premeditated with malice aforethought”) or if in beating the victim in question, the intent was to kill him (2nd degree murder). In this case, manslaughter was probably a lot easier to prove, absent an admission by one or both of the assailants.

            As far as Israeli/refugee relations it’s a tough call. As Jan-willem noted there are definitely Israelis that are prejudiced against Somali and Eritrean refugees. No doubt about that. But there are definitely Israelis that pay them their fair wages and don’t countenance racism against them. Conversely, there have been incidents of crime, violent and otherwise by refugees against Israelis but according to the statistics I read, the crime rate among refugees is actually lower than the crime rate among Israelis and the fact is that one is much more likely to be victimized by an average Israeli than by an average refugee.

            I volunteered to teach English to refugees and I have witnessed both tremendous racism against refugees as well as tremendous kindness and empathy shown to them by Israelis. The situation isn’t as black and white as some would like to portray it but I do know that with almost no exceptions, the refugees would much rather be here than back in Sudan or Eritrea.

        3. Finster: You may’ve been to Petah Tikvah, but you didn’t see what the Haaretz reporter did. He noted the tinderbox nature of relations between Jewish residents and Africans. He also quoted the statement from a Jewish resident that was unalloyed racism. I guess you missed that.

          Crimes committed by Africans against Jews? Jews don’t commit crimes against Africans? Except for the pogrom in Tel Aviv when they trashed stores & smashed car windows & assaulted individual Africans. And the lye thrown by Border Police into the restaurant pots of businesses owned by Africans? Really. You are a charlatan & a fraud. Go back to Hasbara Central. You’re a pathetic failure as a hasbarist. You are skating on very thin ice, Finster my ‘friend’…

          IF there are crimes by Africans against Jews they are exceedingly few. And likely caused by the economic deprivation Israel forces upon them as undocumented illegals.

          As for the ‘Garden of Eden’ that is Petah Tikvah for Ethiopian Jews, you appear to have missed the racism by the local rabbinic court which refuses to register them for marriage. And the firing of the Ethiopian chief rabbi there for opposing such racism: http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Concerns-of-racism-in-Petah-Tikvah-The-Rabbinate-refuses-to-wed-Ethiopians-445696

        1. @Werner the whiner:

          Going to throw some canards about “Jew-hating Europe” around now?

          Face the facts: the only one apologizing for racism here is you.

          Presumably because the racists in this equation are Jewish and clearly by-products of the Zionist ideology.

          Your nay-saying and outright apologia is disgusting!

        2. I will try to explain this one last time to you, ‘Werner’: Trying to implicate me in anti-semitism, by constantly insinuating that I come from an anti-Semitic country is pathetic. You do not seem to understand that people’s attitudes and opinions are what you should address, not their country of origin. For instance, you always think you are scoring a point, by pointing out flaws in the US to Richard, when Richard is among the first persons to address and fight these flaws himself. This only makes your own failure to acknowledge flaws in Israel, stand out even more. But I guess this will be too complicated for you to follow.

  2. The Israeli law makes it very hard to get a murder conviction. Unlike in the USA, there is no first degree and second degree murder, there is only “murder” and “manslaughter”. To convict someone of murder you need to prove that he had intended to cause the death of the victim (and there few other elements that need to exist). When it comes to beating someone to death, a conviction is almost impossible. There was a famous case in Israel few years ago that is somewhat like this case: A 59 years old Tel-Aviv resident, Arye Karp, was walking near the beach with his wife and daughter when a group of drunk youngsters harassed them and then attacked them viciously. They injured the wife and beat the man to death. The court acquitted them from the murder charge and instead convicted them for manslaughter. Again, because the act was not planned and because it could not be proven that they meant to kill The victim. In this case, the killers were Arabs and the victim Jewish so one can not suspect racism was involved.
    https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%92%D7%AA_%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%A7_%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%A4
    It is a problem with the Israeli law. Because of this problem you should not be surprised that the prosecutor won’t even try to charge the killers of Bibikir Adham-Abdo for murder.
    And by the way, I don’t think anyone proved that the reason for the attack was racist. Such attacks happen in Israel quite often (particularly when alcohol is involved) with all people involved being Jewish.

    1. @ Amico: I’m sorry, but when you beat a man mercilessly for an hour you are intending to kill him. Hence it is murder. Just because you may not have originally intended to murder him, you stood there for an hour & beat him senseless. That hour standing there doing violence to a man which kills him–that’s MURDER.

      You’re claiming that Jews attack other Jews in drunken fits? And which ones have resulted in murder? Very few if any. There is a difference between a Jew beating a Jew and a Jew beating a drunken black man. You know it & I know it.

  3. Yardena Schwartz reported last year in Newsweek
    that Israel had granted refugee status to only 4 asylum seekers from Eritrea and none from Sudan. Seeing that between 2006 and 2013 almost 65,000 asylum seekers came to Israel this must be one of the lowest percentages in the world.

    Schwartz comments:

    “The irony here is that it was the international failure to assist Jews during the Holocaust that led to the 1951 United Nations Refugee Convention, the first international agreement addressing the rights of refugees and states’ obligations to them. Today, 148 nations are signatories to this legal document, vowing to never again turn their backs on those fleeing persecution and genocide.

    That tragic period also led to the establishment of Israel, a safe haven for oppressed Jews around the world. The Jewish state was among the first countries to sign the U.N. Refugee Convention, as its people, perhaps more than anyone, knew what it was like to be unwelcome.

    While Israel remains a haven for Jewish refugees (many of whom can hardly be called “refugees” AB), Israeli officials and the media routinely disparage non-Jewish African asylum seekers. In August, Israeli Interior Minister Silvan Shalom declared, “I will not relent until we reach a framework that will allow the removal of the infiltrators from Israel.”

    http://europe.newsweek.com/what-europe-can-learn-israels-refugee-crisis-334709?rm=eu

    “Infiltrators?” – that is the term for agents sent by a hostile power. Their legal status is that of “asylum seeker” until they are assessed – a process Israel is obviously not in a hurry with.

  4. Dennis Barshivetz, yet another sign that Israel is in a terminal state. Those who can leave Israel should go now, before the society collapses into a weird cross between a banana republic and a religious theocracy with racist religious gangs running wild in the streets.

  5. @Richard

    I never said that relations were ‘preachy keen’, I explicitly admitted to a racial component to this crime. I said that most Israelis leave the Africans alone, and I haven’t ‘harped’ on anything. I simply pointed out your mistake. You also just made a similar mistake when you said:

    “As for the ‘Garden of Eden’ that is Petah Tikvah for Ethiopian Jews, you appear to have missed the racism by the local rabbinic court which refuses to register them for marriage ”

    If you had read the article you linked, you would understand that most Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israeli), including those residing in Petah Tikvah, are 100% Jewish under the halacha. Some Falasha Mura (Ethiopian converts) are being given a hard time getting married by the Petah Tikvah rabbanate. Many diaspora Jews are also given a hard time when they try to marry Israeli Jews.

    As for the two criminal culprits, I lack you certainty that they should be charged with murder. Criminal indictments are sometimes complicated. Who struck what blow and when, and with what intent? On what do you base your claim that they should be charged with murder and not manslaughter?

    @Jann

    The granting of refugee status is complicated as well, though I concede that Israel is not tripping over herself to admit Africans. Tens if thousands of Africans have already been granted de facto asylum. They are working, sheltered and provided for. Statistics aside, if Israel’s treatment of the migrants violates international law, than please provide us a cite.

    Jann. Have you eyewitnessed any Israeli abusing or harassing an African?
    Yes/No.

    1. @ Finster:

      I never said that relations were ‘preachy keen’,

      Yes, you did say race relations were fine in Israel: “There are many thousands of African ‘economic migrants’ living in Israel, and Israelis, by and large, leave the migrants alone. Very few incidents of harassment or abuse.” And this: “I’ve been to Petah Tikvah scores of times, and never saw a Jew raise his voice, much less his hand, to an African.” You said of race relations for Ethiopians there: “many Ethiopian Jews live in Petah Tikvah and proudly call it their home.” Your own words betray you…

      I simply pointed out your mistake.

      Right back atcha, buddy. The mistake was all yours.

      Some Falasha Mura (Ethiopian converts) are being given a hard time getting married by the Petah Tikvah rabbanate.

      Indeed they are. Because of Israeli racism. I doubt very strongly whether the local rabbinic racists are distinguishing between various groups of Ethiopian Jews in terms of whether they’re born Jews or converted Jews. It’s the color of their skin disguised as a halachic dispute.

      Who struck what blow and when, and with what intent?

      So because two idiot Jewish terrorists jointly killed a man, we should let both off with a slap on the wrist (which you know is what they’ll get) because we can’t determine which brutes’ kick killed him?? And you dispute the intent was murder when they beat him mercilessly for an entire hour. Have you ever beat anything for an hour that didn’t die? What would you expect would happen if you beat a human being for an hour? That he’d get up and walk away unharmed? Or that he’d end in the cemetery?

      The granting of refugee status is complicated as well,

      IT sure is if you’re a racist ethnic supremacist country which derogates anyone who isn’t Jewish. Terribly complicated. So complicated that you ignore the clear protocols of international law which lay out how to treat such refugees.

      Tens if thousands of Africans have already been granted de facto asylum.

      What an interesting bogus quasi-legal category you’ve created. Does “de facto” asylum status mean they’re free from harrassment? From being cheated out of their wages by Jewish bosses? That they won’t be assaulted or killed at night by Jewish marauders? Did Abdo have “de facto” status as well? If so, a lot of good it did him. Oh & they’re “sheltered?” By whom? They live in slums & shacks 10 or 20 to a room. If you call that “shelter.” I dare you to spend a single night “sheltered” as they are.

      Jann. Have you eyewitnessed any Israeli abusing or harassing an African?
      Yes/No.

      Nope. We don’t do things like that around here. You don’t get to ask any yes or no questions. Go somewhere else for that. Or if you like I can do a poll of readers here: “Finster: Hasbara shill? Yes/No.”

      1. Richard

        There are about 150000 Israelis from Ethiopia and of Ethiopian descent – some of which claim Jewish heritage but are obviously not Jewish (a cross tattoo on one’s forehead is not a sign of being Jewish). Israel marriage law being based on religion (a problematic issue on its own) , makes everyone without “required” documentation suspect in the eyes of the Rabbinical court (even you – if you decided to try to marry here – as well as my totally Orthodox friend from Canada who had to locate his parent’s birth certificate – a challenge, as his mother was a “kindertransport” child in 1938). So doubt as you may – you are wrong.

        Murder is a very specific legal definition and being drunk is a mitigating circumstance – as is being a minor. Sucks, I’d like to see them get life in prison – but that’s the way it is.

        Being a refugee is also a very specific legal definition requiring the first country where the person claiming refuge to determine status – in the case Egypt (see the Dublin declaration). As the vast majority of the asylum seekers are in no immediate danger in Egypt (and can pay thousands of US$ to traffickers to smuggle them to Israel) – Israel in under no legal obligation to take them in. This, again, has nothing to do with the appalling conditions that they live in or the occurrence of wage theft or other rights violations that they suffer.

        As for the purported Lehava connection – Dennis Igor Barshivatz would probably be considered suspect by Lehava itself, which, as an equal opportunity racist group, would label him as Russian or Ukranian.

        So, a Russian or Ukaranian immigrant murders an African asylum seeker – and it’s Israel’s community fault.

        1. Stan: You are an especially artful form of hasbarist. Kudos to your controllers as Hasbara Central. You appear to agree with all of my points. THen proceed to raise fairly subtle, but nonetheless false, counter-arguments. You’re better than the other lot they send here. So I give you some credit for that.

          Now on to rebutting your claims: the rabbinate puts special barriers before Ethiopians because of their race. THey put up barriers they do not place before Ashkenazi or even Mizrahi Jews. That is racist plain & simple. You don’t hear anyone other than Ethiopians complain about being prevented as an entire ethnic group from getting marriage approval. That is racism.

          I don’t think you know Israeli law at all. But even if you are stating the law correctly, permitting a loophole so that if you are drunk you may be murdered without punishment is simiply gross & disgusting. FUrther, I’m virtually certain if you were an Israeli Jew & drunk and murdered, the charge would be murder. Again racism.

          As for the refugee definition, you’re full of it. When you don’t permit a refugee to register in your country as a refugee the problem isn’t with the refugee, it’s with the country refusing to comply with internatonal refugee/humanitarian law. As for Egypt, I can just see that lovely refugee registration office in downtown Cairo appointed with plush chairs and afternoon tea to make African refugees feel right at home. What do you take us for, fools? Do you think the Egyptians are interested in registering refugees in their territory? If so, it’s you who are the fool. As for refugees not being in danger in Egypt, what do you think it is–a playground? Of course they’re in danger there. Everyone from the police to the smugglers can prey on them as illegals & undesirable. A group of such refugees once protested there & were mown down with bullets like hay. Not so nice…

          Israel is under every obligaton of humanitarian law to take them in, contrary to your nonsense. It is under every obligaton of such law whether it agrees to do so or not. UNless it wishes to withdraw from the world & international organizations. That would be a far more honest response than to pretend it is compliant with international protocols.

          a Russian or Ukaranian immigrant murders an African asylum seeker – and it’s Israel’s community fault.

          Indeed it is. As for whose fault it is–is it the victim’s fault? I suppose hasbarists like you could argue had he stayed in Africa he wouldn’t have been murdered. At least you didn’t go there. Although that may be because you hadn’t thought of it yourself.

          1. I would thank you for a complement – if you didn’t think that every somewhat more nuanced view of a situation that is different than your own is automatically propaganda.

            Don’t put words in my mouth – the killer was drunk and hence it would be difficult to convict him of murder – no blame is set on the victim.

            The are NO barriers on Mizrahi Jews with the Rabbinate – as no one believed that there are/were non Jews in Mizrahi Aliya. There are many issues with Ashkenazi immigrants (especially from the former USSR) as many, if not most, of the immigrants are not Jewish according to Halacha (and the Rabbinate is an Orthodox Hallachic court – sucks, but that’s the way it is). The vast majority of Ethiopian Falash Mura are Christian converts and if they want to marry in a Hallachic court – yes, they jump through hoops (as does every convert from outside of Israel of any color, including some Orthodox converts from the US).

            IHL and Refugee Law are relevant to refugees, not to work migrants. As in Europe, the vast majority of the asylum seekers are young men – which makes their claim to refugee status suspect – which is why your entire paragraph on IHL and RL is irrelevant.

            As for communal fault – is a drive by shooting in LA, LA’s communal fault? No, it the gang member’s fault. Since you are so sensitive to various other statements concerning group blame for other heinous crimes – you may want to retract that statement.

          2. @ Stan:

            Don’t put words in my mouth – the killer was drunk

            Actually, it was you who didn’t make clear whether you were speaking of the victim (who the article said was drunk) or the killer (who the article didn’t specify was drunk). I took you to mean, quite reasonably, the victim. I am glad to hear you are not blaming a murder victim for being drunk at the time of his murder.

            As for the marriage issue: you again misread the story. The Orthodox rabbinate would not marry Ethiopians, period. Not that they put the Ethiopians through excessive hurdles. Theyw wouldn’t marry them at all. That was what the racism complaint was about.

            Neither Israel’s African refugees nor Europe’s are “work migrants,” an offensive, dismissive phrase. I might move to Canada or Europe were I to get a terrific job offer. Then I might be a “work migrant.” But someone fleeing starvation, ethnic cleansing, civil war, etc. is not a “work migrant.” He is a bona fide, legitimate refugee under international law. As another commenter correctly noted in reply to you–you don’t flee hundreds of miles across barren desert at the prey of smugglers to find a better job. You flee in order to survive because you either would starve to death of be murdered in your home country.

            the vast majority of the asylum seekers are young men – which makes their claim to refugee status suspect

            Howso? Young men can’t be subject to starvation, ethnic cleansing, racism, etc.? Further the reason women & children may not accompany young men in as great numbers if that they would more likely perish on the journey as have thousands of children & women (& men) making the desperate trip from the Middle East to Europe.

            As for communal fault – is a drive by shooting in LA, LA’s communal fault?

            Certainly. When a nation violates international law in treating refugees, then discriminates against them, herds them into detention camps, deports them with barely a shirt on their back, assaults them in their Israeli slum/hovels, then kills them–the nation is at fault. And when the nation refuses to prosecute its own citizen-murderers to the full extent of the law–they’re also at fault as a nation.

            you may want to retract that statement.

            I retract nothing.

            You are done in this thread. Do not reply. Move on.

      2. @Richard

        “I dare you to spend a single night “sheltered” as they are.”

        My mother-in-law rents a flat in South Tel Aviv to an African family.
        That arrangement is quite satisfactory to both landlord and tenant. I helped refurbish the flat just before the family occupied it.
        There are no slums anywhere in Tel Aviv or Petah Tikva.

        Whether it’s housing conditions, international law, English Commonlaw or the Jewish halakha, you’re way out of your league in this article, and, reducing your comments to a shrill diatribe, including puerile name calling, only makes matters worse.

        1. @ Finster:

          There are no slums anywhere in Tel Aviv

          You either don’t know Tel Aviv or you’re flat out lying. THe very south Tel Aviv you claim has no slums, is one according to no less a source than Ynet. The Tikvah neighborhood is the slum where most African refugees are forced to live. And your anecdotal evidence that one Israeli landlord treats one African refugee family decently proves nothing. Not to mention, we don’t even know if your claim is true unless we ask the family of its own view of the relationship.

          1. That’s right, there are no slums in Tel Aviv.
            My wife was born and raised in Shapira, near the Old Bus Station. That neighborhood is not now, and has never been a slum. Several years ago, Finn Street looked like a slum street, but Finn Street has since been cleaned up.
            I’ve walked and shopped on Levinsky Street one hundred times. Either the Ynet article is dated, or exaggerated, or the author doesn’t know what a slum is. Why didn’t Ynet publish photos of the ‘slums’?
            And BTW, all the neighborhoods mentioned in the Ynet article, Neve Shaanan, Shapira, Florentine etc., are currently undergoing gentrification and urban renewal.

            There should be some contemporary pics or videos that show the ‘slums’ of Tel Aviv and Petah Tikvah. I defy anyone to show pics.

            Bring ’em!

          2. @Finster: wishing doesn’t make it so, buster. Every major Israeli newspaper & news channel regularly chronicles the abject poverty & slums of Tel Aviv, including this Google search which features scores, if not hundreds of online sources rebutying your narischkeit). This Google image search features similar numbers of images of the hovels in which Tel Aviv’s poor live.

            Israel has the highest poverty rate in the developed world (according to OECD statistics).

            You are an ignorant fool to deny the obvious. I have a comment rule that prohibits lies published here (even if you claim or believe them to be true). You will within 24 hrs admit your error. If you do not you will not publish here further.

            To all and sundry: I deeply regret that poor Meister Finster (“The Dark One” I called him in Yiddish) is no more. He reacted to my challenge with a bout of ugly salaciousness and so met his end here. There will be a short memorial service for our beloved Hasbarist at 0700 hours on the Mount of Olives where his body will be interred for blogging posterity. After, we will retire to the TEmple Mount for a bit of schnapps and murmured prayers calling for our beloved Moshiach to smite the Amalekites and tear down their heathen temple.

          3. Richard, ‘Werner’ will be out of that grave faster than Lazarus! Expect a ‘new’ commenter (possibly in female guise again) in the next 48 hours.

          4. @ Elisabeth: “Stan” appears to be the new guy on the hasbara block here. Don’t know if there’s any connection between Finster & him. Stan appears to be a class slightly above Finster in hasbara capabilities.

        2. Well Werner The Window in Tel Aviv are plenty of African diplomat, business etc “legal” persons and families. And plenty of illegal imigrants. If your fictious Mother in law rents a flat to a rich African family working there as diplomats what on earth has it to do with those hundreds of illegals cleaning your toilets for laughable salaries and their living conditions?

          Werner your propaganda making skills are really astonishing. We readers deserve better quality and argumentation in the Israeli defense propaganda.

    2. @ Werner
      as a humanitarian and non-Jewish citizen of Israel I guess I’m biased to give asylum status to do those that warrant it, no matter the colour, religious affiliation and/or origin of the individual/s
      in defence of the state of Israel, I remember a time where virtually all East Europeans (Hungarian and Romanian mainly) living and working here illegally where ’rounded-up’ and deported…clear ‘economic refugees’ in those instances
      and that goes to the main reason (notwithstanding the clear racism by some in the present Israeli government and society) in my opinion as to the actions of the State in not granting asylum refuge to any Sudanese and Eritrean asylum seekers (bar the 4 that Arie has mentioned), demographics…the ‘fear’ and obsession to remain a Jewish state (no matter whether fully democratic/just and/or humane) trumps all other considerations/acts of kindness so to speak
      as for the 2 thugs who basically kicked that man to death, anything less than life in prison is not justice no matter how one likes to ‘spin’ it…far too many murderers (of Palestinians by soldiers from the IDF mainly comes to mind) walking the streets of Israel

  6. @Stan

    You wrote:

    “Being a refugee is also a very specific legal definition requiring the first country where the person claiming refuge to determine status – in the case Egypt (see the Dublin declaration). As the vast majority of the asylum seekers are in no immediate danger in Egypt (and can pay thousands of US$ to traffickers to smuggle them to Israel) – Israel in under no legal obligation to take them in.”

    I don’t know why you came up with the “ Dublin declaration” (i.e. Dublin Regulation). Look at this:

    “The Dublin III Regulation (No. 604/2013) was approved in June 2013, replacing the Dublin II Regulation, and applies to all member states except Denmark.[10] It came into force on 19 July 2013. It is based on the same principle on the previous two i.e. that the first Member State where finger prints are stored or an asylum claim is lodged is responsible for a person’s asylum claim”.” Wikipedia

    This clearly applies to member states of the European Union. Egypt is a different kettle of fish altogether. Often asylum seekers have no chance whatsoever to apply for refugee status there. Also they always run the risk of being forcibly returned to their country of origin.

    Cp.this from Human Rights Watch:

    “In response to a petition by Israeli refugee rights groups, on September 4, Israel’s state attorney claimed Israel had no obligation to consider requests for asylum by Africans arriving at Israel’s border fence because they could claim asylum “in Cairo.”
    UNHCR’s Executive Committee has stated in its Conclusion on International Protection No. 15 (1979) that, “Asylum should not be refused solely on the ground that it could be sought from another state.”

    “Building a border fence does not give Israel a right to push back asylum seekers,” said Gerry Simpson, senior refugee researcher and advocate at Human Rights Watch. “International law is crystal clear: no summary rejection of asylum seekers at the frontier and no forcible return unless and until it is established that their refugee claims are not valid.”

    “Israel has no formal agreement with Egypt governing the return of third country nationals – including asylum seekers – at the Sinai border, and Egypt has never made a commitment to Israel that it would allow asylum seekers among them to claim asylum.

    Furthermore, Egypt systematically refuses to allow UNHCR to visit sub-Saharan nationals detained in police stations across the Sinai desert. Since UNHCR is solely responsible in Egypt for registering asylum claims, this practice prevents them from seeking asylum there and means Israel cannot claim that Eritrean asylum seekers refused entry to Israel at the Sinai border or returned to Egypt receive adequate protection.

    Eritrean refugees and asylum seekers remain at risk of forcible return to Eritrea from Egypt. As recently as October 2011, Egyptian prison guards at the al-Shalal prison in Aswan beat 118 Eritrean detainees– including 40 registered refugees – to force them to sign papers for their “voluntary” return to Eritrea. Human Rights Watch has documented other cases in which Egypt has forcibly returned Eritrean refugees, registered asylum seekers and would-be asylum seekers to Eritrea.”

    https://www.hrw.org/news/2012/10/28/israel-asylum-seekers-blocked-border

  7. The story of the Africans in Israel is much more complex than some would like you to believe.
    Many of them are legitimate refugees but many others are migrants that seek to better their lives economically (which is fine but Israel doesn’t have to accept it). This can explain the disproportional number of young men among them and relatively low number of children and elderly people. Violence and crime are not uncommon among these young men. It is very interesting to read an article written by an Israeli journalist named Adino Abbaba. He himself is an immigrant from Ethiopia (and an outspoken critique of the Isreali government and society). Abbaba disguised himself as a newcomer form Eritrea and spent some time among the African community in south Tel-Aviv. His report is, again, very interesting.
    http://article.yedioth.co.il/default.aspx?articleid=5932
    He reports harassment by the police and terrible living condition he had to endure. On the other hand, he also reports that other Africans there had advised him about how to lie in order to be considered a refugee. He witnessed a lot of violence within the Africans (particularly when alcohol was involved) and racism between the different ethnic groups, which also leads to violence. He states that while many Africans told him they experienced verbal and even physical assaults by Israeli citizens, he himself did not experience it even once. Anyway, I advise anyone who can read Hebrew to read his story.

    1. @ Amico: I strongly object to repeating the same points other commenters have made in the same thread. Do NOT do this. It bores me to tears and also conveys the impression of ganging up or collaborating on your messaging. You don’t want to convey the impression that Hasbara Central has coordinated your talking points here, do you?

      Further I find a number of the points you attempt to make not just false, but racist. That is absolutely prohibited here. Do not convey false generalizations about entire groups or ethnicities here, ever.

      Violence and crime are not uncommon among these young men.

      Actually, crime among these refugess is lower than among Israeli Jews.

      He witnessed a lot of violence within the Africans (particularly when alcohol was involved)

      You Israeli apologists are amazing. You criminalize a human being, take away his dignity after he’s nearly lost his life traveling to your country, you treat him like dirt, beat the shit out of him, refuse to allow him to work or live in decent housing–then you complain when all he can do is get drunk.

      Done in this thread, my friend. Move on.

  8. “Israel under its far-right government has much in common with the incoming Trump administration. Woe betide us all…”
    I have abstained from commenting on this thread in an attempt to avoid repeating previous arguments. But I cannot help but notice that in the post you lump all people who are to the right in one steaming big pile. Lahava, ignorant bigots, Netanyahu, violent criminals, the police, the courts, the media and prosecutors–they’re all in one big basket of rotten Israelis. The failure to make distinctions not only fails to properly understand the problem, but brings you further than ever from actually bring about constructive solutions. Furthermore, you imply a correlation between specific crimes and a specific government, which is a fallacy of its own, as though there were not bigots or ethnically motivated crimes under previous more liberal governments.
    “A nation seething with hate,…”
    What a crock of ridiculous horse manure. It sounds very hyperbolic and poetic, but fortunately has nothing to do with reality.
    Your description conjures images of walking down the street and everywhere seeing angry violent white ashkenazi Jewish men ready to pounce on innocent people. That’s very, very, far from a true picture.
    Kind of like me trying to characterize Chicago by reading the police crime ledger.

    1. @ yehuda:

      The failure to make distinctions

      This is a flat-out falsehood. THere are nearly 6,000 posts in this blog comprising millions of words. Each post conveys nothing but discrete facts, nuance, detail, and analysis of each individual incident I portray. This blog is precisely the opposite of what you claim. If you want to read a blog that has trouble making the distinctions you claim go read Mondoweiss.

      brings you further than ever from actually bring about constructive solutions

      No, it’s not my job to offer you “constructive solutions,” whatever that means. Regardless, I’ve offered them. But again, Israel has all the constructive solutions it needs. It just refuses them all.

      But I have little interest in leading the balky Israeli horse to water & trying to persuade it to drink. That’s not my job. My job is the portray the problem so that those who wish can see it clearly.

      as though there were not bigots or ethnically motivated crimes under previous more liberal governments.

      Another falsehood. I have always blamed all Israeli governments for the problems of the State. I have never let Labor governments off the hook.

      Your description conjures images of walking down the street and everywhere seeing angry violent white ashkenazi Jewish men ready to pounce on innocent people.

      To Israeli Palestinians, African refugees and even to Israeli leftists in certain circumstances, this is precisely what they see & feel. And if you either were one of these or had an ounce of real empathy you would understand that. You would understand that as an Israeli Jew (Ashkenazi I presume) you suffer none of this.

      Done in this thread. Move on.

  9. @Stan

    You wrote:

    “IHL and Refugee Law are relevant to refugees, not to work migrants. As in Europe, the vast majority of the asylum seekers are young men – which makes their claim to refugee status suspect – which is why your entire paragraph on IHL and RL is irrelevant.”

    “Work migrants.”? Are you referring to the Eritrean and Sudanese asylum seekers? You must be joking. You seem to think that by finding a different term for them you can declare the whole body of international law having to do with refugees and those who apply for that status ()i.e. asylum seekers) to be irrelevant.

    “Work migrants”. Officially they are not even allowed to work – their visa states this. This gives their employers plenty of scope to exploit them.

    Most of them are young men you say “which makes their claim to refugee status suspect.”. Fleeing a place, leaving everything behind and putting up with the hardships of that type of movement requires courage and strength – young people are generally more endowed with those qualities than older ones. The mean Israeli suspicion of them has not played a role internationally. Worldwide the great majority of Eritrean asylum seekers (some 84 %) have been recognised as genuine refugees. And this was also the case with more than half of the Sudanese.

    Israel has been the meanest of their judges and has hardly recognised any request for refugee status. The general strategy seems to be to make their life unbearable so that they will leave “voluntarily”. See;

    http://972mag.com/israel-doesnt-need-to-deport-asylum-seekers-to-make-them-leave/108123/

    Israel has long experience with such strategies.

    Its practices on this score were even deemed unacceptable by its own Supreme Court:

    “The Supreme Court of Israel has, in two distinct decisions, affirmed that the State’s treatment of African asylum seekers is unacceptable and violates fundamental laws concerning human dignity and liberty. The Court insisted on a comprehensive policy that seriously tackles this issue, but the government remains noncompliant.”

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Share via
Copy link