24 thoughts on “58% of Israelis Support Firing Palestinian Workers According to News Poll – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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      1. I’m not defending racism, I’m explaining it’s possible cause.
        Understanding the root cause of racism goes further to eradicating it than does a reflexive condemnation.

        1. @ Red Eft: No you weren’t explaining any cause of racism. You were pointing out that Palestinians kill Israelis and that this justified Benayoun’s hatred. Can you point to a single word you wrote in your execrable comment that criticized Benayoun?

      2. What a nasty manipulation, Richard.
        You give a title “Israeli Jewish bus driver killed a Palestinian boy” while the source didn’t mentioned “Jewish” driver.
        Hmm… it’s smells like….

  1. Its only about fear from Arabs. Not racism.
    People are afraid a random Arab will stab them or run them over.
    How do you prevent those fears?
    If you came to live in Israel, maybe you would experience these fears first hand and be able to relate to them better.

    1. @ frank: I HAVE lived in Israel jackass. Maybe you should live in Yemen or Pakistan and know what it is to worry daily that you, your children, your wife & parents could be blown to bits by an Obama drone.

  2. why would this be considered racism when when there have been so many incidents concerning arab employees?
    ‘in fear’ of you ‘mandating’ me i will not elaborate. Benayoun is Moroccan and knowing many Moroccans they have no love for Arabs.
    As far as Rivlin goes he is just posturing and is still a staunch right winger but for the public he ameliorates ‘situations’.
    whether it is germane or not his family was from the ‘olei haGra’ over 200 yrs ago and it was definitely a messianic movement.
    if someone wants to say that it is now turning into a religious war that is absurd because that is what it has always been about entwined with cultures which will never integrate.
    according to your CV your time in Israel gives you very little grasp of what goes on בשטח

    1. @Red Eft
      it may not be germane to your specific family but Jer is heavily populated with olei haGra and their progeny in the thousands.
      but my main point is that Sephardim in general despise Arabs. i have lived and learned with Sephardim for over 40 years and many of my neighbors are North African and aside from the cultural similarities because of geographical circumstances they are not interested in integrating with them here in Israel.
      aside from that, leftists dislike the Arabs more than any other group and want a separation in whatever form they can achieve.
      the cultural diff is too great to bridge so the talmudic rule applies here כל דאלים גבר

      1. @ noach: More specious racist nonsense. Claiming that all Mizrahim feel one way or another on any subject, but especially about their ethnic origins is stupid.

        leftists dislike the Arabs more than any other group and want a separation in whatever form they can achieve.

        Now I know you’re a total moron. You may not spread noxious opinions here w/o supporting them with evidence. For that reason, you’re now being moderated. If you try to publish such crap here again, you’ll lose your privileges entirely.

    2. @ noach: THis is utter nonsense. Israeli Jews as a whole whether Mizrahi or Ashkenazi have deep hate for “Arabs.”

      As for claims by Israeli rightists that Jews and Arabs can never ‘integrate.” I think rather than Israeli rightists will never integrate. Perhaps it is they, rather than Palestinians who should be “invited” to leave Israel. They can move to Texas, Russia or any number of places which would welcome fellow racists like them.

    3. Jews lived for many hundreds of years under Arab rule in Morocco. I am not aware of any incident of their maltreatment.
      They, certainly. did not run scared.

      1. @ Victor Nicola

        I posted this earlier but it remains relevant especially in view of the anti-Arab hysteria in Israel.

        As far as Morocco is concerned I will quote some statements from Professor Pinto, a Jewish Dutchman of Moroccan origin, who was then (and perhaps still is) president of the European Federation of Moroccan Jews. The quote is from the Dutch paper “De Telegraaf” of 9/20/2005.

        “Many young Dutch people of Moroccan origin don’t realise, according to Pinto, that Morocco was for a long time a quite pleasant land for Jews to live in.” In my time there were 300,000 Jews living in Morocco” said the Professor who moved to Holland in 1963. Jews could function in all sections of society, he said. There was absolutely no question of discrimination.

        Pinto refers to the adviser of King Mohammed VI, A.Azoulay, as an example of the fact that Jews and Moroccans can live well together.”

        Thus far Pinto. (regrettably Pinto himself is not exactly an example of enlightenment on the matter of Israel – recently he couldn’t come up with any better argument against ex-Prime Minister Van Agt”s open letter to Frans Timmermans than by calling him an anti-Semite).

        Adding to Pinto’s information: when in 1940 the German controlled French Vichy government issued racist laws excluding Jews from public functions and obliging them to wear the yellow star of David, Sultan Mohammed V refused to apply these laws in his country, then still a French colony, and made a point of inviting Moroccon rabbis to the enthronement celebrations.

        It is true that after the foundation of Israel there have been locally some anti-Jewish riots but it is to me an open question to what extent the migration of the Moroccon Jews was a matter of the push from Morocco or the pull of Israel.

        At any case, according to Job Cohen, then Mayor of Amsterdam, who visited the place six or seven years ago, the remaining Jewish population there is doing quite well.

        Also, King Hassan II issued invitations for the Jewish migrants to return. These seem not to have been taken up.

  3. Noach wrote about Richard:

    “according to your CV your time in Israel gives you very little grasp of what goes on בשטח”

    I take it that you assume that Richard has not lived there long enough to have the “insider’s perspective”, and that you by contrast have a superior vision by virtue of living there.

    The view that one has to live within a situation to adequately describe and analyse it leads to absurd consequences. To begin with it would make most of historiography impossible.

    There is of course not one insider’s perspective, there are quite a few depending on the position in which one is or was placed. Living within a situation does not necessarily give one a superior vision – on the contrary, it generally tends to limit that.

    The historian’s vision, and that of the informed outside commentator in general, is at any case not limited by having a specific position within the situation s/he is describing. He is confronted by different perspectives though and sometimes he needs to make a choice. If you know anything about modern historiography you must be aware that there is now a definite preference for what with a fashionable term is called the voice of the “subalterns”, the forgotten voices, the voices that were drowned out by the “hegemonic discourse” prevalent at the time studied.

    Why is that? Well the “forgotten voices” speak of things that were definitely there but not observed earlier because of the loud voices of the dominant strata.

    Is there a “hegemonic discourse” on the present Israeli situation? There certainly is. It is the discourse in the American mainstream media. The US is the main enabler of Israel and its mainstream discourse is therefore what counts.

    As I have remarked earlier on this blog, some twelve years ago the columnist Eric Alterman drew up a list of American commentators on the Israeli situation, subdivided by those who were “reflexively pro-Israel” , those who were sometimes critical of Israel and sometimes of the Palestinians but when it came to the crunch preferred Israeli security interests above Palestinian rights (this is the category Alterman placed himself in), and those who were reflexively pro-Palestinian. The list of the reflexively pro-Israel types was as long as your arm whereas in the last category, that of the defenders of Palestinians, only five persons were listed of whom four have since died.

    Unfortunately, as far as I am aware, Alterman has not updated his list and though there have been some changes I assume that the relative proportions of these categories have not changed very much.

    What Richard and some others on this blog are trying to do is to listen to the voices of the “subalterns”, the oppressed, the “humiliated and insulted”, the voices of those who are disregarded in American and Israeli “hegemonic discourse”. I think some general values are served by this: to begin with those of fairness and truth. I also think that you are unable to do that exactly because of the fact that you are living within this situation, which doesn’t give you a superior perspective, as you fondly seem to assume it does, but rather prevents you from looking beyond the circle of your own interests.

    1. Arie, why such a long argument? Israeli right wingers deploy the argument that people not living in Israel are ignorant and cannot understand the stuff there while commenting at length, and ignorantly, about Arab countries. To give a tiny example, they refer to “22 Arab countries”, as in “why should Palestine become a state while there are already 22 Arab countries”. While non-sequitur, this count is the membership list of the Arab League that includes Comoros, Djibuti, Somalia (three non-Arab counties) AND Palestine. And yet, one does not have to live in the region to know the correct count, or to know that Lebanon and Tunisia are democratic and so on.

  4. @Arie

    “I take it that you assume that Richard has not lived there long enough to have the “insider’s perspective”, and that you by contrast have a superior vision by virtue of living there.

    Noach does have the ‘insider’s perspective’, and to a lesser extent, so do I.

    I visited Israel several dozen times before I made aliyah, and believe me, burning your bridges and actually living in a place is a completely different experience to visiting a place. It’s like night and day, and to be quite honest, I liked visiting here, and I don’t like living here.

  5. So Noach does have the (or rather;”an”) “insider’s perspective. My letter was about the possible limitations of that.
    I would like to know why you liked visiting but don’t like living in Israel.

    1. I don’t like the stress, the people, the culture, the food, the politics or this government very much.
      Did I miss anything?

      1. @ Red Eft: Interesting that there are so many things you don’t like about Israel. I generally like the culture. I didn’t like the food much when I lived there but it’s improved markedly I understand. I’m mixed about the people. There are many Israelis I love and some I detest.

        As for “burning bridges,” when I considered making aliyah, you almost literally did have to burn bridges. You couldn’t afford frequent flights and there was no regular, inexpensive means of communication with the Diaspora. So you were “all in” with Israel. I couldn’t make that leap given that I’d be adopted a permanent war state, one that would constantly be threatened by war & instability.

  6. In conflict between Israel ppl and palestine ppl it is a lot about conflict between religions.

    If there would exist a god, would it be God approve to people killing innocent people.
    Would it be eternal hell for those ordering those decision ?

    Would the Israel leaders believe in God taking those premises into account ?
    I think nope. It is just fun to show that you can do what ever you want. If you are leader.

    On both sides they are too many times mentioning the GOD. The principle what God says, IMHO. is how you make your life.
    The same is how Muhammed teached ppl to life. Live like me… (not like me, like Muhammed)

    And also in Christianity is the same. I don’t know how the religion in Israel goes…

    The war is people with high power (leaders) looking for self esteem. The war is not between people.

    If people would start understanding each other it would be much more easier..

    Doesn’t people ever learn…………………………………………………

    The current situation in Israel reminds me from what I have looked in book, the situation for Jewish ppl in many contries during WW2.

    Where are the differences when Palestinian people compared to those what Jewish people suffered during those times ????

  7. I saw a film shot in Beit Jann in the Galillee which concentrated on a Druze family. A young, male, member of the family who served in the idf said that as soon he was discharged from service he became just an Arab: no account was taken of the fact that he sacrificed his life for the State.

    1. @ Red Eft: Sorry, not impressed. This is the same justice ministry run by Tzipi Livni, who refuses to resign despite the fact that Bibi is planning to pass the most racist laws in the history of Israel. This is too little, too late.

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