45 thoughts on “Gaza War, Day 23: Nearly 1,300 Gazans Dead; IDF Soldiers Killed Yesterday in Hamas Attack Were Asleep, IDF Lies About Their Deaths – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. The IDF has lied many times. Israel has lied about what happened to the three teenagers who died. http://www.bhol.co.il/article_en.aspx?id=70446

    Thanks to people like Richard, the truth ultimately is revealed. Unfortunately, it is too late for the 800 Palestinian civilians murdered by rampaging Israeli terrorist soldiers.

    1. Yes, but why is RS so apologetic about bad-mouthing the IDF? For sure, a counterpart in Israel would not hesitate to bad mouth Hamas, making up things in the process. I know RS is accused of just “running down” little Israel on every pretext, something that might be unseemly were Israel a normal state trying to settle its difficulties in a rational way. This is not the case. Furthermore, it is useful to disabuse everyone of the mythic IDF, that “most moral” army. These are just kids hyped up with racist ideology and state lies and as vulnerable as any kids, high tech extraordinary weapons notwithstanding. As long as the IDF engages in asymmetric battles like the current one, they are not entitled to any benefit of the doubt. Let’s face it, the whole invasion is a mistake as it solves nothing. However, it drives Israelis further off into the ozone where they have virtually no company anywhere. Its fate is the fate of South Africa and other reactionary regimes attempting to hold on to fantasies about themselves and others. Someday I am sure there will be tribunals before which these kids will be dragged and charged. No doubt they will claim they were just followng orders, doing their duty for the state and “their people.”

  2. This is an IDF staging post. The IDF is attacking Gaza.

    Hamas is perfectly within its rights under the laws of war to launch an attack upon that staging post.

    In no way, shape or form can this be claimed as a “terrorist attack”, because to do so is to suggest that shooting at Israelis soldiers on active duty during an armed conflict is “terrorism”.

    Which, obviously, is a nonsense.

    1. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
      “Hamas is designated as a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan. However it is not considered a terrorist organisation by several other states, including Iran, Russia, Turkey, China and many Arab nations.”

      Look at the list of states and decide on which side you are?

  3. This is a perfect illustration of why Netanyahu made a dreadful mistake starting this conflict.

    He was certain that the IDF would be able to stand off at a distance and pummel Gaza without Hamas Being Able To Do Anything About It.

    The result: next-to-zero casualties amongst the IDF…. queue the cheers from the Israeli presstitutes…..

    And as for those rockets, well, gosh, Iron Dome will deal with those and, heck, if any get through then a swift and brutal carpet-bombing of some Gaza suburb will be the appropriate response…. queue the cheers from the lounge-chair ghouls sitting on those Sderot hilltops……

    But these tunnels have upset all those calculations, because these tunnels allow Hamas to launch attacks on IDF staging posts inside Israel itself.


    Bibi can’t possibly let that stand, because it means his soldiers are going to get hurt, as happened here.

    So he has to send those soldier into Gaza to hunt out those tunnels, which means…. his soldiers are going to get hurt.

    Oh, dear, either way IDF soldiers are going to get hurt, and that’s not in Bibi’s script.

    Quick! Better carpet-bomb a few more Gaza suburbs!!

  4. I don’t know why you would care that IDF lies. They always lie. Let them cook in their own stew. Also, I don’t see anything more legitimate than an attack on soldiers. Israel calls these “terror tunnels” while these are very legitimate fighting tunnels, in fact, the only thing at the disposal of a poorly equipped militia facing overwhelming odds.

    In a way, it is good that Israel gets humiliated and surprised by Hamas – Israelis typically think of Palestinians as untermensch so when Palestinians show fighting skills they are in complete shock. Just like with Hizbolla, Israel will learn to respect them because the only language that a bully understands is force.

  5. There is every justification for attacking Israeli soldiers inside Israel. From inside Israel, Israeli soldiers are massacring Palestinian civilians. Only the most delusional zionist could attempt to argue that point.

  6. [comment deleted–lies, opinion devoid of evidence, Islamophobia & racism are not acceptable here. You’ve been moderrated. If your future comments violate the rules you may lose your privilges entirely.]

    1. Hamas is waging war for independence, for real, this is why people support them, even though they act like a dictatorship. This is very similar, from the point of view of Gaza, to Vietnam war. And they are approaching 1% of their population dead in 1 month. It’s likely way more will die due lack of electricity, lack of health care and a lot of things.

      This is not like ISIS (which is not about a religious war anyway), they are trying to implement an absolutist monarchy, like in Saudi Arabia. They have eyes in oil (Iraqi), money and power.

    2. Yair. This is how oyu and the Israeli propaganda machine, lose credibility, oyu make idiotic claims that only the delusional can believe.Hamas is an elected representative of Palestinian people, quirte like Likud, Labour and other Israeli parties. We don’t have to like or support their (Hamas, Likud, Labour, Yisrael Beiteinu etc.,) religion-based policies that they impose on people, but they ARE the representatives of the people. Al-Qaeda is a loose group of organizations, not really guided by a center, who are self-imposed on the people whom they believe to be supporting the West. ISIS is (for now) a small group of incredibly britual people who want access to absolute control and power and they have decided to call themselves a Caliphate. In this, ISIS is no different than Israel because both of them believe they are nominated by God and that gives them the right to slaughter all the “Unbelievers” around them. Which one is the greater butcher is yet unresolved because the competition between them is on-going.
      Finally, the Palestinians cause is NOT a Shia or a Sunni issue for Muslims, both groups solidly support them. There may be regimes that want to get US money and weapons so they mouth Israel-US language against Palestinians, but in NONE of the countries will the people will be standing against the Palestinians.

      1. Not that i care one bit what you think of me, but i am deeply saddened by the situation in gaza. I am a staunch supporter of the two state solution, including the dismantling of all settlements. I know though that until hamas is gone, there is no chance and civilians on both sides will pay the price.

        Now that i said that, enjoy your hatred. I am done talking to the deaf for today.

        1. Yair, you reminded me of the poem, “Tha Walrus and the Carpenter”:
          “I weep for you,’ the Walrus said:
          I deeply sympathize.’
          With sobs and tears he sorted out
          Those of the largest size,
          Holding his pocket-handkerchief
          Before his streaming eyes.”

          You should read it and think about how it applies to Israel. As for “Hatred”, you should re-read your own comments and consider who is showing “Hatred”.

        2. I find Israeli poseurs like you to be repulsive. Your purported support for 2 states or settlement withdrawal is meaningless, worse than meaningless since it posits a reasonableness which is utterly fake. You are moderated as a hasbara semi professional.

          1. Richard,
            You make me sad!…..how do you expect the state of Israel to be tolerant toward the Palestinians if you not able to be tolerant toward Yair (whom I find to be genuine) .
            So many self righteous critics of Israel post comments here, I wonder if their comments are a genuine reflection
            of themselves. If so, I have a lot of self improvement to do.
            Richard, I have two small children (G6&B8) and then can fight like cats and dogs ( must be their Israeli temperament! ).
            Rarely do I find that it is solely due to one or the other. Could the Israeli-Palestinian conflict be somehow similar.
            Is it really helpful to criticize Israel so vigorously and might that one-sided criticism do more harm than good.

          2. Israel is the sole aggressor now and is acting as deadly as the Nazists in the Eastern from considering the size of Gaza population.

          3. Eastern Front, by considering the size of Gaza’s population and the duration of the attack.

          4. Daniel F. I find Yair to be full of hate towards Muslims. In case you did not notice, Yair kept referring to “Sunni” and attributing ‘Sunni” with all kinds of generalized evils which, if someone else were to say similar things about “Jews”, you and a whole lot of people whoud scream “anti-Semitism” in a heartbeat.
            I don’t question Yair being “Genuine”..I just think it is a case of Genuine, bigotry and hate.

            There is a huge difference between you two children fighting and Israel fighting Palestine. This could be seen as a case of a small cat being targeted by a bull mastiff, one does not say the cat should not have scratched the dof especially when the dog steals the cats food, one stops the mastiff from going nuts and killing the cat.

            How do you have a two-sided criticism in a one-sided situation? Should one be noting the justifications on the sides of Nazis, Serbs, Hutus, Pol Pot or, should one be noting the horrors perpetrated in the victims? Should one be looking through history to see who started the situation or, should one be condemning the genocide?
            There are more than enough people and countries of wealth, influence and power, who side with Israel without regard to truth, a little voice of justice from Richard, cant not be so serious that you would feel the pain.

  7. For me the real sad part is “… end of the crippling Israeli siege, they’d end it and recognize Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital and concede the Right of Return. Short of this, the bloodshed can only continue.”
    Past bloodshed is sad, but future bloodshed is sadder.

    For the majority Israeli population (As far as I see it), the right of return is maybe the only thing that is not negotiable. (For transparency sake ill say that it is my opinion as well)
    So does that mean we are destined to keep killing each other or is there another way out?

    1. @ noam: There can be nothing that is “non-negotiable” except “non-existence.” Saying ROR is “not negotiable” is stupid & yes, it will guarantee the conflict will continue it is satisfactorily resolved for Palestinians.

    2. Noam. Why is ROR “non-negotiable” when applied to Christian and Muslim Arabs, who are barely one generation away from their land, but ROR is sacred for Jews who haven’t been to Israel for 2000 years?

      What if ROR were acceptable for all three but in proportionate numbers?
      Let us suppose there are 40% Jews, 40% Muslims and 20% Christians in Israel and the (currently) Occupied territories. What if 10,000 people were permitted to ROR (an arbitrary number, for discussion) per year, in the same percentage proportion….with one proviso. That they would be coming under probation for two years and they would swear to live peacefully in the country and would reject discrimination on religion. If they break their promise, in a serious (criminal) way, they would be deported. This would prevent a demographic take-over.

      Could you live with this?

  8. [comment deleted–You’re already moderated. The next offensive comment from you will result in losing your privileges entirely.]

  9. Since you are interested in words and their value ( like “terror tunnels” and death tunnels” -Netanyahu is now using) especially in times like these it seems that the use of the name “pro-Israel” is jarring. I wonder why you and others, critical of Israel, have not found another name to use unless Israel has already morphed into something other than what some of us keep supposing it should be. Maybe that is so,sadly.

    Also, regarding Israel invading a foreign country. Aren’t they invading land that they are occupying, not a foreign country with sovereignty. Aren’t Israeli’s legally responsible for the people within this territory that they are occupying and now destroying? These fighters are resistance, not soldiers.

  10. Hey, where did I hear about kneecapping before? Oh yes, it was in that testimony of one of the co-founders of Breaking the Silence (I put it on this blog not long ago). He told us that their orders were to shoot at the legs of srone throwing children (possibly also kneecapping them) and when the stone was heavy enough to be lifted with two hands to shoot to kill.

    Stone throwing children Yair. Don’t come with horror stories about Hamas because the brutality of the IDF is far better documented.

  11. Richard, it’s not that they were sleeping. If you watch the video with attention, by the end, you will see that soldiers came to rescue from somewhere in the crop beside the security outpost. But these guys were completely untrained. Noticed that the person with the camera put at least 5 soldiers running careless in a straight line coming towards him, which means that their rear and flanks were completely defenseless.

  12. And another thing: why would people of that Shejala neighbourhood protest against Hamas about the ruins they were left with? The IDF did reportedly not bomb it because there were Hamas militants there. You think people don’t know who is inflicting this on them, after having maltreated them for years on end? This is of course what Israel wants to achieve – blast everything in sight and the people will for the sake of dear peace give up on Hamas.

    And about that execution of Fatah supporters: there was a brutal struggle for power there incited by the US and Israel. So accordingly we were fed horror stories about people being thrown off roofs and, in your version, balconies. There might have been some incidents like that (on both sides) but that struggle was not taking place on roofs of course. It wasn’t a Hollywood action film.

    The fact remains that Hamas was democratically chosen – a fact not accepted by that great would be spreader of democracy in the Middle East: the US.

  13. The IDF lied and I realized it very early yesterday. They also lied about the fact, that the Hammas fighters were heading towards kibbutz Nahal Oz (before being stopped by the soldiers), which they weren’t.
    However, I knew before visiting your blog today, that you will have it as your main topic. It obviously makes you feel good.

    1. Chanan. I have known Richard personally for some time and have grown to not only like him as a friend, but to respect him very much. I am pretty sure it is a source of pain for him to see Israel in the role it is and has been in and that his voice is a scream for Israel to be better than it is. He is not among the many misguided people who believe they must conceal the wrongs of “their side”, but among those who believe (like I do) that the greatest loyalty and love one can show for “their side” is to expose the wrongs they commit and to then help them back on the right path.

      Your bash at him (“It obviously makes you feel good.”) is a desperate attempt to justify Israel, it doe not work on preople who use their brains.

  14. This forum is like walking into a nest of hornets. It is all hate from all sides.
    It is a back and forth of diatribes.

  15. “They will say there is no justification for attacking soldiers inside Israel. While I might agree with this under normal (non-war) circumstances…”

    Why no justification for attacking inside Israel? What is this? Surely Palestinians have the right and duty to attack any part of the state and the people who are decimating them. I think this right of resistance extends to a “non-war” situation with Israel, if there was ever such a situation.

  16. It’s beginning to look as if the White House has decided that it cannot excuse more than a certain level of civilian deaths, and the school shelling was too much to excuse.

    But if the objective of all the killing is to stop the tunneling, then I am afraid that the perfection of soil conditions for the task of tunneling is the real enemy. The only way to change that would be some kind of civil engineering project which raised the water table in the affected areas. Otherwise, it’s always going to be possible to dig a tunnel.

    1. This talk about finding tunnels is nonsense from IDF. They knew how many they had (which means they knew the entrance or exit), so it would be a matter of 1 or 2 days to them all.

  17. I’m still a bit puzzled as to how any of Hamas’s actions are the equivalent of the Blitz: typical civilian deaths there were in the order of 300-800 a night for an extended period and the property destruction was very widespread though some effective shelters kept the death toll down. The Blitz hit many large cities, including neutral Dublin on two occasions. (Oh yes, Dublin!) (And still the IRA and De Valera managed to be pro German till the bitter end.)

    It was a different sort of thing, in a different age. It only makes sense to compare the rocket attacks to the Blitz, if one is planning something like the Dresden firestorm in retaliation, which one would hope is not the case.

    One would hope that the comparison was made out of ignorance and we shouldn’t read any meaning into it at all.
    Because the notable thing about both the Blitz and the British response, was how expensive both campaigns were in terms of aircrew. The Germans had an airforce optimised for tactical battlefield air support and they spent months hurling this at an increasingly well defended strategic target. The RAF did build a force suitable for strategic bombing of cities, but lost more than 50,000 men using it. IDF loses of around sixty men as I write seem very small by comparison, but these loses are much more than the IDF has lost for quite some time and I can’t help feeling that by the time this is over, the IDF death toll will be sobering, while the Palestinian civilian death toll will be heavy enough to be enraging.

    If none of this leads to a permanent solution, and I’m pretty sure it won’t, then the sacrifice will be hugely pointless.

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