Terror and the Murder of the Good
The series of terror attacks in Toulouse over the past two weeks have proven several truths. First, that terror is the enemy of reason, tolerance, childhood, and almost everything that allows human civilization to flourish.
It’s important to note that Al Qaeda, whom the French terrorist claims to represent, targeted Muslims and Jews in his murderous spree. That means that, contrary to the message of far-right pro-Israel supporters, it is not Islam that is the enemy, but extremism. Extremists can be adherents of any religion: Islam, Christianity or Judaism. They can be citizens of any country including Norway, France, Palestine or Israel.
The heinous acts of the shooter in these attacks betrayed his cause, his religion and his country. He betrayed the values of tolerance and love inherent in all the major religions, including his own. Now in the minds of many ignorant bystanders he has brought his religion into disrepute. He has immeasurably heightened the level of hate, fear and hostility toward Islam.
There can never be justification for killing children, whether those children are French Jews or Palestinian Muslims. If we want the world to believe in the justice of our cause, whether it be Israel or Palestine, we have to denounce the murder of both.
That’s why the pro-Israel supporters who are clucking about this latest round of Islamist terror are dead wrong. They are hypocrites because they only care about children with Jewish blood in their veins. You never heard any of them cry for the two Palestinian children killed in Israelis attacks against Gaza. Nor did they cry anything but crocodile tears, if that, for the 300 children killed during Cast Lead.
The EU’s foreign minister, Catherine Ashton Taylor unleashed “fury” in Israel with her apt analogy (though much less forcefully made than I have) between the child terror deaths in Gaza, Toulouse, Norway and elsewhere. She said:
…When we think of what happened in Toulouse today, when we remember what happened in Norway a year ago, when we know what is happening in Syria, when we see what is happening in Gaza and in different parts of the world — we remember young people and children who lose their lives.”
Israelis of course refuse to concede that the children they kill in Gaza are killed in anything other than a pure and just cause. Listen to this rhetorical flatulence from Netanyahu:
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said earlier that he was “infuriated” by what he called “the comparison between a deliberate massacre of children and the defensive, surgical actions” of the Israeli military that he said were “intended to hit terrorists who use children as a human shield.”
Calling an attack that kills children “defensive” and “surgical” seems to absolve it or any of the moral considerations that enter into other acts of war and terror which kill children. The fact that the children killed in Gaza were NOT being used as human shields by any militants is also deliberately obfuscated by the pro-Israelists. Will no Israeli leader ever cry for any child he kills? Of course not. He’s too busy orchestrating the hasbara to mute the moral opprobrium of his next attack.
Let’s be clear: children are the victims of this awful conflict orchestrated by their elders. The children of Palestine are just as much victims as the Jewish child victims of Toulouse. Their deaths are equally troubling, equally heinous.
Finally, there is only one way to end the worst of this mayhem: Israel and Palestine must resolve their conflict. Israel must return, or be forced to return to 1967 borders, Jerusalem must be shared, and refugees must return.
Figures as eminent as current CIA director David Petraeus have conceded that the intractability of the conflict is one of the most incendiary elements that fuels terror and radicalism in the Middle East. Israel’s most extreme supporters bristle and snarl when such comparisons are made. But if Israel continues killing Muslims (and Christian Arabs as well) at the rate it has, hate of Israel (and of Jews) will fester and burst out into similar acts of violence.
No less an Israeli journalist than Akiva Eldar wrote the same sentiment in Haaretz, when he noted that if Israel attacks Iran it will increase precisely the sort of anti-Semitic fervor that Israel was meant to protect Jews from suffering. Eldar says we can expected more Toulouses in that case:
…An Israeli attack on Iran…would be seized [upon] by by right-wing extremists…Thanks to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s babble in Washington…the bill will (also) be submitted to Jewish communities abroad. The State of Israel, which was established as a haven for Jews from those who hate it, may instead wind up becoming a threat to Jews.
Returning to the theme of our respective child terror victims: if we care only for our own dead and shrug our shoulders at the dead of our “enemy” then we betray our humanity.
75 thoughts on “Terror and the Murder of the Good – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم”
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.
“Extremists can be adherents of any religion: Islam, Christianity or Islam” is it double words or double meaning?or simply just typo?
If that was your way of noting a typo, thanks. And corrected.
I think you’ll find that was a hilarious Freudian slip in which the writer displayed his true opinions on both Islam and the impunity of Judaism.
I think we’ll find that you’re a troll and an idiot.
It’s not just simply typo, double meaning, or double words. It’s true.
The killing of children is an indefensible act. The French message at this time is one of unity, and since this was an act of terror against France, I defer to their lead.
Sirhan Sirhan’s reasoning here is absurd: to restore the dignity of a religion that does not even allow you to take your own life much less someone else’s, he publicly executes children? What’s next? Tear a puppy’s head off on live TV while shouting VIVA PALESTINE — I REPRESENT THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE (AND IRANIANS!!!)? I don’t believe anything I read in the news anymore, or the people that call in the hearsay quotes the journalists print.
The Israeli government shouldn’t have used this situation as a means to forward their “stop living in the diaspora” agenda. I find that act to be deplorable and refuse to insult my own intelligence by ignoring the transparencies. For the French, it is dually noticeable that there are many Israeli flags waving in their country and that the victims have been evacuated to Israel for burial.
That said, it was great to see Fayyad deploring the act as well and distancing the Palestinians from this heinous individual.
Why do you mention Sirhan Sirhan. He’s a Christian ….
I would note that this murderer is a Salafist who killed several Muslims as well. I don’t know if the values of “tolerance” and “love” are particularly central to Salafism.
The majority of his attacks (the ones he carried out and the ones he planned) appear to have been against French military personnel. The alleged shooter expressed his opposition to France’s involvement in Afghanistan and to the recent French headscarf ban as being the primary causes behind those actions.
It also seemed that he targeted Arab soldiers in particular because of the perception of them being “traitors” to the cause by fighting on the side of Western armies.
That he could also kill children so ruthlessly – allegedly holding a little girl by the hair and shooting her at point blank range, shooting three and six year old boys in the head – and then film the murders and threaten to post them online, suggests a deep depravity of spirit.
I am sadly reminded of the horrific killings conducted by an American soldier just over a week or so – where innocent children, nine of them, were slaughtered by one man’s hand.
Perhaps the worst of the mayhem won’t end until there is some kind of just and fair resolution in Afghanistan.
These four cruel murders in Toulouse demonstrate, in very graphic detail, how death can come suddenly out of a clear blue sky and there is very little anyone can do to prevent it.
Naturally, security will be tightened, extra protective measures put in place and, for a while, no further such incidents are likely to occur.
But this scenario cannot continue indefinitely. At some point in the future, something of a similar nature is fated to happen to someone else; the same tragic circumstances, the pain, the grief and the desire for justice and retribution will be repeated then in much the same manner as they are now
That adds an extra dimension to the tragedy; the belief that it forms just one small part of an endless chain of violence and hatred, each new link forged from the general mass of all those preceding it. Death’s stride here seems remorseless, each pace measured by the time leading up to the next act of barbarism and outrage. Which comes soon enough.
What real and lasting protection can ever be given to those innocent people caught up in such a random sequence of such lethal events?
When you have to fight a forest fire, it can be done in two ways. Fire-breaks can stop the contagion from spreading, hence the expression ‘fighting fire with fire’ but the danger of igniting more fires is always present. Dowsing the affected areas with sufficient quantities of water is a better method insofar as it quenches the flames directly and minimises further damage to the forest. By making the ground seriously waterlogged, all fire hazards very soon start to disappear.
But the volume of water generally required and its delivery system have to be more than adequate for the task.
”Inter arma enim silent leges’ (In times of war, the law falls silent) But other kinds of law do exist – and it is not beyond the myriad mind of Man for some of these to be made very unforgiving indeed.
Do you think the (now dead) terrorist knew the ethnic background of the soldiers ? or do you think he was targeting the soldiers for being soldiers ?
In the case of the Jews. He knew their ethnic background, he went to into a Jewish School.
I saw a long special news on the French national television last night, and also an interview with the female journalist from France24 whom Mohamed Mearh called on Monday night:
It’s not clear whether he targeted the paratroopers because of their ethnic background or not. He surely targeted them for being soldiers as he claimed to protest against “French intervention in Afghanistan” but did the “Arabs/Muslims-Who-Betray-Their-Own” influence his choice or not wasn’t mentioned.
According to French Minister of Interior, Mohamed Merah explained to the ‘profiler’ or whatever who talked with him on the phone during the siege that he only decided to target the Jewish school, close to his home, when he didn’t find another military target.
So base on the information you provided i think it is accurate to say that the following statement Richard’s made “It’s important to note that Al Qaeda, whom the French terrorist claims to represent, targeted Muslims and Jews in his murderous spree” is wrong.
The terrorist targeted French soldiers who happened to be Muslim, and Targeted the Jews for no other reason then being Jews.
Wrong. Not to mention that you’re splitting hairs. He deliberately targeted Muslim French soldiers. Again, Jews & Muslims were both deliberately chosen victims. You can’t get around it as hard as you try.
You don’t know that, Richard. I don’t have to try hard to get around it. Don’t pay attention to the BS you read in the NYT. Their agenda is to feed the anti-Muslim rhetoric! Read Tariq Ramadan’s article on the events at http://www.counterpunch.org.
I read that he targeted the Arab soldiers because he saw then as “traitors” to the cause of radical Islam.
To be honest, this man exhibited the pattern of a spree killer, with the political/religious message more or less as an afterthought. He appears to have obtained training from a terrorist group, but in the end reverted to attacking targets of opportunity on ground that he knew well from his activities as a petty thief.
His definition of “military target”: off duty soldiers using ATMs, could not possibly have been any softer and scarcely required any more courage than killing the headmaster’s little girl. As with the killing spree in Norway, the ideological justification is cobbled-up and so full of holes that in the end you’re really left with a killing spree done out of pure self-aggrandizement.
(Anders Brevik claimed to be inspired by the British extreme right, but appears never to have heard of Troy Southgate and Richard Hart, quoting some lunatic fancy-dress wearers instead. The EXTREME right do not want to curb immigration by Muslims, they want to reduce the world’s entire human population to around five million people living in permanent social and technological stasis. The term “extreme right” is often thrown around by people who would NEVER get their heads around what extreme right actually entails. Put it this way, out of the entire Nazi Party leadership, probably only Himmler might have agreed with Southgate’s agenda.)
Toulouse is a predominantly N. African community, hence the soldiers he attacked would likely be Arab/Muslim. The shooter was Arab & could easily identify fellow Arabs.
Stop splitting hairs. It’s unseemly.
I am not splitting hair.
Based on the logic you presented, all the soldiers stationed around Seattle are from Seattle. All the soldiers stationed around NYC are from NYC.
The ethnic background of the community of Toulouse has nothing to do with the ethnic background of the soldiers.
You are bending reality to fit into your narrative.
Nonsense. Toulouse is a largely N. African/Arab/Muslim community. The killer was same. Most soldiers serving in Toulouse would be same. Killer could see his victims & knew their ethnic origin when he attacked them. Killer said explicitly that he attacked Arab French soldiers because they were traitors to their religion. THis is self evident. That’s enough in this thread for you. Move on.
Toulouse is not a largely N. African/Arab/Muslim community. It is a largely white, non-Arab, non-Muslim community. Where are you getting your information from?
According to INSEE, the National Institute of Statistics, Toulouse has a population of North African citizens (Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia) of 15.000 and including French citizens of North African origin approximately 26.000 out of a total population of 450.000 inhabitants.
The first killing took place in Toulouse, but the second didn’t. It was in Montauban, the headquarter of the French paratroopers, 50 kilometres from Toulouse.
The three paratroopers were all of North African origin, but one was a Catholic Berber who physically might as well have been Portuguese or Italian. The one who survived was a Black guy from Guadeloupe.
I still haven’t seen any declarations from Merah stating he chose Arabs or Muslims deliberately. When he killed the first paratroopers he yelled: “You kill my brothers [in Afghanistan where Merah spent time in a military training camp] I kill you”.
I think the “targeting-Arab-Muslims-for-being-traitors” was speculation by the media.
This is not so. Toulouse is not a predominantly N. African community. I am curious to know why you would think that it was. Maybe 1/10th of the population is of North African origin. The vast majority of the people living in Toulouse are not Arab and not Muslim.
But Merah chose to attack Arabs, most of whom were Muslim, not whites.
How certain are you that this is the case?
Could it be that he chose to attack French soldiers, and the ones that he killed happened to be of North African origin?
Is there any evidence to suggest that these particular soldiers were specifically targeted because they were or appeared to be Arabs and/or Muslims?
Yours is the 5th comment on the subject & the last. This is from the NY Times coverage:
The French authorities now appear not to believe he targeted the French soldiers as traitors to Islam, though this has been contended earlier in the media. Regardless of that, the soldiers murdered were Arab and in most cases Muslim & so Muslims & Jews were the killer’s victims.
Again, I’m tired of the argument & don’t want you or others to continue harping on it.
I’m sorry but you are wrong on this one as on the population of Toulouse, one of the “Whitests” town in France. I’ve followed this case since long before the NYT ever mentionned it. Nobody outside France heard about it before the killing at the school, I guess.
This case has been 24/24 in the French media, we’ve heard his lawyer, social educatores, the journalist whom he called Monday night.
The ‘Arabs/MUslims being targeted for being Arabs/Muslims’ is coming from the media and specialists on radical Islam such as Gilles Kepel who have been asked – even before knowing the identity of the killer – what could eventually be a motivation.
There simply is no evidence that Merah mentionned he targeted those people because of their ethnic origin.
I’m not going into an argument with you, I know it’s useless.
@ Deïr Yassin
I appreciate your honesty.
Can you explain the comparison of children murdered in cold blood to those that are killed but not actually targeted?
Yes, ANY child being killed is a very sad event. But these situations are completely different.
There is no difference between one who bombs recklessly knowing children may become collateral damage and one who does knowingly.
I agree with that statement.
I also think that the IDF doesn’t bomb recklessly- they target terrorists and murderers.
IDF does bomb recklessly. They know when they target alleged militants that they will likely kill innocent women and children. This is a war crime. In any case, Palestinians killed by IDF invariably become “terrorists” or “militants” after the fact, and because Israel has such a long record of lying about everything, few people trust them to tell the truth about anything.
How does the IDF know that when they target terrorist murderers that they will likely kill innocent women and children?
They didn’t target a murderer. They targeted a poor sap who wasn’t planning any terror attack as they initially claimed. They stopped claiming that immediately after they killed him & never offered any evidence that he was planning anything. Read Neve Gordon’s Al Jazeera English story. It’s very important.
The Gaza attack was entirely premeditated on Israel’s part and entirely unprovoked.
No, it seems like the Palestinians are the ones who recklessly fire hundreds of Kassams and Grads indiscriminately on a civilian popluation. They seem to have no regard for human life and care less if they damage property, maime or kill children, old men or women- this is evident by the simple fact those bombs are not accurate.
These terrorists aim for populated areas- they are not specifically trying to hit any military targets in these barrages, other than striking fear and terror into thousands of citizens. THAT is a war crime. THAT should stop and THAT should be condemned.
And while I don’t like or condone the killing of any innocents-Palestinian or Israeli, there are militants running around Gaza who are planning these reckless strikes on israel and other violent attacks (they ain’t planning the next social tea party!). They aren’t stationed in militant locations nor to they steer clear of the civlian poplulation.
Whether you agree with their tactics or not…. the IDF are NOT specifically targeting civilians or are making a concious effort to kill civilians.
There have been missions they have accomplished without the death of innocents… but with the death of militants who have been implicated in carrying out attacks/murders on Israelis or involved with a future imminent attack on Israel.
Perhaps if the Palestinians really wanted not to have innocents killed, their leadership would put a STOP to attacks on Israel and promoting hatred towards Israelis. Then maybe the IDF would STOP targeting these (now former) militants and STOP the accidental killing of innocents. Maybe then BOTH sides would come to their senses and realize the loss of innocent life is a tragedy.
Maybe that would start the ball rolling to move towards some non-military agreement and steps towards a peace between the two sides.
I know in reality it isn’t that simple and neither side trusts each other and there are issues neither agree upon… but if both sides were to give up violence and trying to kill each other, it would be a step in the right direction.
This is a rehash of 100 previous hasbara comments here. Please don’t rehash past material & come up with something new & improved over the past propaganda.
Israel rains terror down on Palestine to a greater degree than Palestinian militants do on Israel. No Israelis were killed or wounded in Gaza last week. 26 Palestinians were including 6 civilians & 2 children.
You can’t aim Qassams. You point them in the general direction you want & (if you’re a militant) hope they land somewhere & do some damage. You can’t “aim” it at a population center or elsewhere. That’s why the rockets have killed 30 people in 10 yrs. while the IDF has killed many times that many Palestinian civilians over the same period.
There are 1.5 million civilians living in Gaza & any attack on Gaza most certainly IS targeting civilians, contrary to yr false claims. Approximately 30% of all casualties in IDF attacks are civilians.
Enough with the hasbara. If you continue mouthing such platitudes, there will be no place for you here. Say something new we haven’t heard before or don’t say anything.
Perhaps if Israelis really wanted to stop their innocents being killed their leadership would put a stop to attacks on Palestine and promoting hatred toward Palestinians. Then the militants would stop targeting Israelis & stop the killing of Israeli innocents. You’re a friggin’ hypocrite. I’ve turned the tables on yr nonsense.
When you support an immediate return to 67 borders, sharing Jerusalem & an equitable resolution of the Right of Return then we can talk. Till then everything you write above is useless claptrap. Stop wasting our time & your own energy. You’re a faux lib fake & fraud.
I agree with you that the murder of children is indefensable and unexcusable, especially in such a horrific fashion as done in Toluse, in Itamar last year or even at a public high school as also happened recently…. ANYWHERE for that matter where children are specifically and intentionally murdered.
Yet, I do see a difference… it just isn’t the same in my mind…. It is in now way any less a tragedy and loss of human life, but the imagery of somebody personally, face-to-face murdering a child is on such a lower and different level.
I say this regardless of the religion of the murderer or the vicitim… it is just such a henious crime in that it I put it in a sick category all by it’s pathetic self. This type of act is like no other and cannot be compared.
Yes, it takes a special kind of killer to slaughter a child while looking into its eyes. So often this has happened in Palestine, and I am always horrified when I read of IDF soldiers firing bullets into the head of an innocent Palestinian child to finish her off. And then to always be absolved of responsibility. It amazes me that the Palestinian people don’t resort to counter terrorism more often, considering how their lives have been destroyed by occupying forces. And of course it’s far easier to kill children by remote control, as Israel does in Gaza, as the U.S. has done for years in Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan. All of it senseless.
Then I presume you’re equally disgusted at IDF soldiers who’ve killed Palestinian children as Mary describes quite accurately?
Yes I do. The loss of an innocent child’s life is tragic matter where it occurs or by whom.
And I’d like to see a link to Mary’s proported soldier “finishing off” a Palestinian child. Prove to me this soldier sought the child out and specifically targeted that child. If it is true, I’ll bring it to the IDF’s attention myself if it hasn’t been done yet. Show me where the soldier hunted this child down an specifically killed… yes even murdered the child. That is not warfare… that’s murder. Just as bad as the Palestinian terrorist who hunts down and kills Israelis in Yeshivot, public places and in their private homes. In that I see no difference.
And as to your comment above about my early comment-there was no reply button. Your comments about my thoughts and remarks are fine and welcome. But do yourself a favor. Keep your friggin’ insulting comments about who I am to youself. There is nothing fake about me, nothing I am hiding and you have no right to say such things. If you think you do , then you are running your website like a bully…. anybody who doesn’t agree with you or say things that don’t fit your formula you try and bully away. I like your last line… basically put: “if you don’t agree with what I think is right, you have nothing to say here”. And to think you once complimented me about having “Derech Eretz” too bad I can’t say the same about you.
There are a number of instances of IDF soldiers killing children at close range & several which involved “kill shots” (or “confirm the kill” in Hebrew) to children who were already wounded. This is only one example:
Must’ve missed that one, eh? As for bringing it to the IDF’s attention–the killer’s been exonerated, and promoted, and received $20K for his trouble from the govt. Only you seem not to have heard…And yes, it IS murder. Committed by the IDF. Yet no one has been punished for it. Care to speculate why?
You forget that I’ve read 50,000 comments here from hundreds of pro-Israel apologists. So I’ve read every argument that can be made to defend Israel’s bad behavior. So when you regurgitate arguments already made here not once or twice but 10 or 20 times, it gets a bit old. So you can dislike what I say, how I say it or whatever. But I’m afraid I’m not interested in those who regurgitate & my statement stands: come up with original thoughts if you want to defend Israel.
The girl whom you speak off, was as you stated on a no-men zone, to get there she had to walk about 400 meters from her home in a southerly direction (if memory serves me well) passing via a 250 m’ stretch of dirt clear of structures, while the school she was going to was positioned north of her house. She walked in the opposite direction of her intended destination. She appeared in the early morning sunlight next to the vehicle route leading to and from the military post, holding a backpack, close to the time in which a routine morning patrol was due back.
You didn’t mention that during the time of her approach a sniper opened fire from the city of Rafah from which one of the officers was wounded.
Though the results are no doubt tragic, the officer in charge capt. R had no other choice but to act the way he did.
I know, you are not going to believe me, you are going to call me names etc. seen it before. There is an aerial picture of the area here http://www.latma.co.il/Image/large/5795-1.jpg. That will show the path at which she walked in related to her school. The part with the sniper appeared at the supreme court documents – look it up, and you do know that Capt R’ is not Jewish right ?
The Israeli supreme court invented a new term by debating the subject “The truth of the moment” the court ruled that considering all the information available to Ilana Dayan when here piece was aired she spoke the truth, even though that truth was found to be not the truth later when all available information was provided.
You should be outraged, at those who sent the girl to the outpost on a recon mission. I know i am.
I’m personally morally offended that you would defend the horror of an IDF commander emptying his gun into the lifeless body of an 11 yr old girl. You are truly depraved & I no longer want you here. Good riddance.
Once again no reply button to respond to your comments made to me below.
The fact that you have to respond to numerous comments with many repeating themselves in different threads goes with the territory of running a blog… especially one like yours.
It is ridiculous to expect people who comment here to review everything that everyone says to not repeat ideas and comments. My comments were a reply to Mary’s comments about the IDF’s actions in Gaza. I responded and added MY thinking about stopping the cycle of violence… I saw if from MY perspective. You tried to turn it around from a different perspective and then without even a chance to respond, YOU have the gall to call me a hypocrite. BTW “turning it around” works for me as well… let’s just STOP THE VIOLENCE. That was my point.
I’ve seen many comments that are repeated that disparage Israel… yet you never call them unoriginal or repeated. It appears you reserve your comments for those who make comments contrary to your line of thinking.
And again- how dare you call me a hypocrite or a fraud with no proof of such. You want to comment on what I say… no problem, makes interesting reading. You comment on who I am, you cross your own line. Your own comment rules suggest as much. You would certainly warn, moderate or ban me if I said the following about you:
“You’re a friggin’ hypocrite. You’re a faux lib fake & fraud.”
That’s a personal attack on me unprovoked and untrue. If you claim it as much, prove it or retract it.
Stop your internet bullying! Stick to the comments and facts and not the person. I stand up for your rights of free speech, not your right to ridicule or bully (especially if unprovoked… I did not attack YOU) the people who comment here.
Bibi CREATED & initiated an unprovoked attack on Gaza. He did so deliberately knowing militants would respond w rocket fire & he could test Iron Dome & beat the crap out of Gaza, as he did. He did the same after the Eilat attack when no Gazan had any involvement with the attack, despite Israel’s lying claims to the contrary.
Attacking a country based on contrived pretences is terror pure & simple. The innocent children killed are victims of terror.
“Finally, there is only one way to end the worst of this mayhem: Israel and Palestine must resolve their conflict. Israel must return, or be forced to return to 1967 borders, Jerusalem must be shared, and refugees must return.”
You have not “proved” this point, but I endorse the sentiment with all my heart, mind, and soul.
And since it is overwhelmingly clear that Israel will not agree to this, the emphasis must be — for the foreseeable future — on finding a way to “force” Israel to do these “removals”: remove all the 650,000 settlers, remove the wall, end the siege, and quite possibly — unless the PA wants them — dismantle the newly-built (i.e., non confiscated from Palestinians, as in occupied “Jerusalem”) settlement buildings.
The EU, Turkey, Brazil and other Latin American states, Egypt (?) must begin co-ordinated BDS-like activities, shutting down diplomatic contacts, travel, trade, cultural and sports contacts — all with a clearly stated purpose (and end-point!) of requiring Israel to do the ‘removals” listed above.
The EU appears to be getting closer to opposing the USA (this time on the World Bank) and may be readying itself to do so on I/P justice and human rights as well.
I don’t see how you can defend religion in this article, resolve it from all responsibility and claim that it was betrayed.
The very problem with religion is that it creates extremists which feel justified in their actions by a superstitious, irrational belief. The news reports say that Merah taunted the police by saying that he will go to paradise when he dies, but they will not. This is not an extremist belief; it is a very foundational tenet of the three Abrahamic religions.
You say that religion has a message of love and tolerance and you may say that, for that can be found in all three religions. However, it depends on who is looking; anything can be found in these religions. Who can deny that the Israel-Palestine conflict is now being driven by religious settlers who justify their actions – with a good argument if you accept the truths of the texts – on scripture.
Just because Muslims were killed as well in these attacks, doesn’t mean it is not a religiously motivated attack. Yes, saying it was Islam as a whole is generalizing, but it was some sect of it. Then again, aren’t all religions split up into many sects and groups that – once the out-groups of other religions are removed – don’t really see eye to eye?
Religion is the root of this evil. Superstitious belief that there is a sky-being that has specifically singled you out to be special is the problem.
Just ask yourself what the Israel-Palestine conflict would look like with religion removed? Would it even exist? What if there were no promised lands or holy sites?
I’m not naive. Religion is with us and people will always believe irrational things. But the extremism that you call the enemy is propped up by religion, created by religion, justified by religion.
I don’t mean to hijack your article, as it is clearly about much more and something else entirely than religion. But I just can’t take the romanticized ‘he is a fanatic and acting against all religious beliefs’ intro to your otherwise very sensible piece.
For all the tragedy of the slaying of the school kids and soldiers, whatever their ethnicity or religion, what pisses me off most about this case, is the election theater Sarkozy and his henchmen made of it. They had known about this guy for a long time and they could have moved in on him from the first day. But no, we had to watch the sleezy TV series stretch out for days (I live in next door Switzerland, and it was daily fare 24/7). Just to give Sarko face time, while shutting out ,for the most part, his rivals. I hope and pray this tactic backfires on the right-wing, anti-immigrant racist that Sarko is.
Too funny. You want the Turkey, Brazil, Latin-American states and Egypt to force Israel to return to 1967 borders and remove all settlements. Why on earth would Israel take the lead from these countries.
I’m all for removal of the settlements, but honestly, expecting the high road to be taken by countries with a human rights record of those you call out, or by a toothless and struggling EU, borders on the absurd.
The only people who will dismantle the settlements are Israelis themselves. And the way that the right-wing here continues to succeed by playing on Israelis’ worst fears – that might be a long time coming.
What a hypocrite! You’re all for removal of settlement except you refuse to offer any reasonable way in which it can happen. Who’s going to remove settlements & return to 67 borders? No Israeli leader will do so. So how else will it happen? You and I both know it has to happen by international mandate. The UN or NATO or some other body will have to impose a settlement or there will be none. If you deride such an option you sentence your nation to unending slaughter & being a permanent war state. Plain & simple.
I’m not a hypocrite. I’m an Israeli who firmly believes that a) we need to leave the occupied terrorities b)international mandate will never make it happen, c) the only ones who can make it happen are the Israelis and the Palestinians.
I don’t claim to have an answer. Though I don’t agree with you that no Israeli leader will remove the settlements. History shows that the act of removing settlers from their homes is a possible one. Whether that will happen of free public will here in Israel, or because of some “black swan” none of us can foresee is another matter. Even with all evidence to the contrary I can only hope it’s the former, though I fear the latter is more likely.
You sure don’t have an answer. Palestinians are ready to make it happen. ONly ones who aren’t are your side. Your people. Your politicians (saying you don’t agree no Israeli leader will remove settlements is silly because you & I both know that no current Israeli leader or anyone likely to have a chance of being one would remove settlements & return to 67 borders–so expecting Israeli leaders to make this happen is a pipe dream). THis can’t go on forever. Since Israel is unwilling, someone will have to do it for them as has happened in numerous other times & places in recent history.
History shows only one uniquely positioned Israeli leader was willing to remove a very few settlements from Gaza. No other Israeli leader past, present or future will remove settlements & return to 67 borders. BTW, removing settlements is a vague locution. What will be necessary is a removal of all except a few major settlements & return largely to 67 borders. NO Israeli leader is willing to do this. Another BTW, Sharon is brain dead. He was the only one who could do anything like this if he chose to. Now he can’t.
“Hope” I’m afraid is useless in this situation.
Israel evicted Israeli citizens from places Israel gave for peace. So the record shows that Israel can do so.
The only long term solution is a one state solution between the river and the sea, the road there passes via a two state solution with security mechanism that will appease the state of Israel, including the denial of the ROR. Integrating the one state solution should take place over the next 100 years in which some form or another of the ROR will be implemented.
The one state would always be a Jewish state, the flag would be the Israeli Flag national anthem would be hatikva, any Jew will be able to immigrate. other then that all citizens will have equal rights and duties.
this is the only long term solution.
When did Israel ever “give” anything for peace? Israel occasionally — very occasionally and only if it profited Israel — returned a small portion of what it had previously stolen.
As for the one state, I agree it is inevitable. But 100 years is too long to wait. The Palestinians have waited nearly 65 years for justice, and time is running out. And of course the one state will not be a Jewish state. It must be a secular state. The flags will be both Palestinian and Israeli, and Hatikva will not be the national anthem. And as far as any Jew being allowed to immigrate, any Palestinian or descendent of Palestinians will be allowed to immigrate too. There can be no other solution.
Due to the Jewish unique History, the Israelis will not give the right for a Jewish state, whether it is under a one state solution or a two state solution.
Nationality is something nations are going to war over, those who don’t understand the situation will bring more bloodshed to a region filled with it already.
Insisting Israel be a “Jewish state” is not an issue of “nationality,” but of religion. You’re insisting Israel be a religious state. There are Israelis who are not Jews who are part of the Israeli nation.
I fear there may be more of these type of attacks.
It is worth mentioning that this guy was a petty criminal then became radicalised through internet forums, which is where extremists get to vent their hate. Much like Anders Brieviek.
Anybody who hasn’t should read Max Blumenthal’s latest, about the nazi salafi alliance…just like the Zionist fascists who have nazi ties, so these f*** have found common ground with the far right to vent their hate.
I wonder how far gone this movement is in the USA, as nazism is rising in the USA, and they are desperate for allies.
One of the biggest hyprocies arising out of this Rabbis murder, is that the character callled Sultan Knish who was recently put on the SPLC hate list, wrote a blog today called ‘The New Nazis’, whilst he himself supports neo nazi’s like Gates of Vienna and Fjordmann. Several other Kahanists have done the same thing.
How can these characters complain about Muslim-far right alliance when they embrace it themselves?
France’s #Toulouse killings and the Salafist-Far Right alliance
Marine Le Pen, the far-right National Front leader vying for the French presidency, is apparently seeking to ride the tragedy all the way to victory. Today, she declared, “The Islamic fundamentalist threat has been underestimated in our country and political-religious groups are developing due to a certain laxism.”
But a glance into the recent activities of Forsanne Alizza exposes the irony of Le Pen’s words. Indeed, Forsanne Alizza has been engaged in an open alliance with neofascist figures and extreme right-wing Catholic groups who emerged from the core of Le Pen’s National Front party and who comprise some of her most loyal supporters.
The de facto Salafist-neofascist alliance was forged in October 2011 when two right-wing Catholic groups, L’Action Francais (French Action) and Renouveau Francais (French Renewal) staged a morality crusade against a performance in Paris of Romeo Castallucci’s play, “On the Concept of the Face of God.” At first, the rightists tried to halt the performance of the play on the anti-religious discrimination grounds. Th
Thanks for the news about the SPLC adding anti Muslim blogs to its hate list. Here’s the full list.
Thank you Richard, the SPLC has a very useful role to play in all this.
You said there is no other option to settlers being evicted. There is another solution. The settlers can take up Palestinian nationality in the new state. Those who do not want to (kahanists and other extremists) should be given a one way ticket to Israel. They can settle in Tel Aviv, let’s see if the secular Israeli’s tolerate them better than the Palestinians.
Settlers may take Palestinian nationality perhaps, but Palestinian state will review their rights to properties they occupy using methods copied from Israel. I guess most will get evicted.
I read a summary of “unique Jewish history” that went like that “Palestinians invoke 2000 years of uninterrupted habitation, and Jews invoke the Bible in which God promised that land to them.” This was a pretty shallow article, but it shows what a journalist from a country where neither Palestinian nor Jewish movements are present can sift from the conflicted claims. Jews are unique in invoking religious texts to support claims to real estate.
“Jewish unique History” means nothing to me. We all have unique history, including Palestinians. I have no problem with an Israeli state, but a Jewish state is an apartheid state and can never be a democratic state. Frankly I don’t care what the Israelis are willing to do. The world community is becoming increasingly tired of Israeli intrasigence and warmongering, and it’s just a matter of time — and not 100 years — before everybody sees that it’s already one state, controlled by Israel, and all that will be left to do, though it will take some time, is to get rid of the apartheid and the Jewish supremacy.
1. It’s meaningless to you, because you are not an Israeli nor a Palestinian. With all due respect, since you will never be part of the solution, no one really should consider what is it that You want, the agreement will be made between us Israeli’s and the Palestinians. what matters is what we would agree upon.
2. The international community will do nothing. It’s enough to observe the inactivity of the international community in-front of the mass murder in Syria to realize that the international community will do nothing. At the end of the day, your voice the movement you represent, your wishes and goals are insignificant.
3. Any solution ignoring the Israeli / Jewish narrative will fail, and will not be implemented.
4. As Israel being an apartheid state..no more then any other state with an ethnic minority around the globe.
Maybe you wish to get familiar with the Belgium anthem and flag for example, i do not see Muslim immigrant’s demanding the change of both.
I find this profoundly disrespectful & unacceptable. Mary’s views are indeed profoundly important to me and this blog. If you speak that way again to her or any other commenter you won’t be commenting here. Contrary to yr view, Israelis who are part of the problem as you are matter very little in terms of helping find a resolution to the conflict. A solution will be found against yr will I’m sorry to say.
As for the international community, that’s what the killers said in Serbia & Rwanda before the UN & other parties did just what the genocidaires were confident they wouldn’t do.
Again, this is so disgusting, so offensive a comment that you are now moderated. You may be unmoderated if you wish to communicate privately after reading the comment rules & telling me you can respect them.
Any solution that adheres slavishly to the Israeli Jewish narrative will fail.
An outright lie. American, Canada, Switzerland, Britain & almost every other large country around the world has ethnic minorities. But few are apartheid states as Israel is.
You believe that Israel is an apartheid state? I don’t know that I’ve ever seen you make that assertion before.
I also am not sure what you mean when you say “a solution will be found against your will” with respect to the person you responded to.
There are aspects of historical South African apartheid that apply to Israel’s treatment of its Palestinian citizens. The analogy isn’t exact, but it’s suggestive & useful.
As for Palestinian non-citizens, apartheid would be a perfect term except that they aren’t Israeli citizens, but rather a conquered people. Blacks in South Africa were not such. So the apartheid label is anomalous in the case of the Territories. If Israel ever annexed the Territories, then the apartheid label would be perfectly apt.
You as i have seen you do here
took my statements out of context. though directed at Mary, i wasn’t talking to Mary personally.
I am sure you know that your standings on the Israeli – Palestinian conflict, though must matter to you, is irrelevant to the solution unless one of the sides would like to adopt it. to make it a personal attack on Mary as you did. that is twisting my statement to fit your reality.
Mary, Regardless, if you were offended, i do apologize.
“Belgium” is not a religion, and Belgium is not a religious (apartheid) state. Belgians, like Americans, are Christians, Jews, Muslims and people of other religions or none at all. Why would Belgian Muslims want to be singled out from their fellow Belgians? Only Israel thinks it is possible to be a democracy and a theocracy.
The above is post directed to Oded Rozen.
Funny how when he was looking to kill ‘Jews’ to punish for the Israel government’s activities he picked the Ultra Orthodox. Bibi isn’t religious. Barak isn’t religious. Ulmert isn’t religious. Livni isn’t. The majority of the army isn’t.
I know why he picked the Ultra Orthodox. Um, he thought they were more…J type…
I have no reason to believe that Otzar HaTorah is an ultra Orthodox institution. In fact, a picture I saw of an adult comforting a child appeared to indicate neither was Haredi. He likely picked that school because it was the only Jewish one in Toulouse or in the neighborhood near where he lived. Your anti Semitic fantasies are entirely uninteresting & unconvincing.
Mary Hugh Thompson
Jews are unique in invoking religious texts to support claims to real estate.
Not really, The Quran does affirm that God gave the land to Jews and there are Muslim Zionists, however, Jewish rights to live there do not necessarily mean forcible eviction, oppression and the other baggage that accompanies Zionism as practiced by the state of Israel.
Chayma, not sure why you’re addressing your comment to me, since the sentence quoted wasn’t written by me. I kinda like it though, because I agree with it. And I don’t care if it’s in the Bible or the Quran or any other holy book. I still don’t accept it as a basis for claiming land anywhere by any group.
However sympathetic one is to the children who are bullied on their way to school, there’s something a bit troubling in this lady’s inability to see why trouble in Manchester could be linked to trouble in Gaza.
Neither does she associate the bullies with any specific ethnic group. Does she mean that native English people are abusing her children, or does she mean that recent East European immigrants are doing it? Experience of UK police reactions suggest that they would jump on the former like a ton of bricks, but might use kid gloves with the latter for fear of being labelled racist themselves. I would be interested to know how hard this lady and other parents have actually complained to Greater Manchester Police, because I’d find it surprising if they continued to tolerate this if complaints continued to be registered. In any case, the Home Secretary has recently directed that if the police take no action by the third time a household complains of harassment (racial or not) an independent inquiry into why no action was taken should be automatic.
The message from the Home Secretary (and her immediate predecessors) couldn’t possibly be any clearer and talking to, and trusting, the police would seem wiser than going into laager behind barbed wire, which will only widen any social rifts.
One of the things which has depressed me in recent years, is how one hears much more vitriolic racist language from people who are recent immigrants themselves, than one ever does from those who have been some years, or have been born in the UK.
At the moment, the Home Office gathers data on the ethnicity of victims of racist incidents, but not on that of those who commit them. Gathering this data might give some people the idea that committing such acts themselves could undermine any claim they might make to be victims of such abuse.
And if the bullies appear to be muslims, having a polite word with the local iman might work a lot better than most contributors to these pages would expect it to.
French police now say there’s no actual evidence of links with any terrorist group, despite Al Qaeda having claimed, well after all the reports were beamed round the world on TV news, that the killer was acting on their orders.
This is probably why the man’s previous activities weren’t taken seriously, and therefore why he “escalated” into actual killings. He’s a spree killer: actual Al Qaeda members tend to be too submerged into the group’s loyalties and purpose to be quite as self-aggrandising as this man was.
It could be a new trend: serial and spree killers claiming to be master terrorists rather than a reincarnation of “Son of Sam”.
I believe the number of children killed in Gaza was over 400 and 300 is what the Israelis would have us believe it was.
“Returning to the theme of our respective child terror victims: if we care only for our own dead and shrug our shoulders at the dead of our “enemy” then we betray our humanity.”
“OUR HUMANITY” cannot be overstated. Best sentence in the whole piece!