23 thoughts on “Ayalon: Cyberattacks on Israel Are ‘Act of War’ – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Israel is at a state of war with Iran. I thought you realized this. Iran’s leadership is calling for the destruction of Israel on a daily basis.

    I fail to see how a violent response to the organization or individual calling for your destruction, or is financing and supplying arms to groups that call for your destruction (the case of Iran and Hizballah, and Hamas), or is attacking your countries financial sector ( in the case of the hacker) – is bullying and not SELF DEFENSE.

    Self righteous as usual Richard. Wait until your credit card number gets stolen, and the insurance hikes up as a result.

    1. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I’m so damn tired to rebutting this anti-Iran nonsense. You’ve been reading the hasbara press too long to understand what Iran has said & hasn’t. I don’t have the patience to go over this ground again. Before you proclaim lies about Iran you must actually make factual claims. If you comment here again offering false, unsupported claims you may not comment again.

      1. Well – I don’t know Persian, so I rely on English written media bringing the information. Naturally, some of these are associated with pro Israeli organizations, but of course this does not take away from the argument that Iran’s leadership has and is calling (and taking action in form of funding and training of terrorists) for the destruction of Israel (and please save me my time by not going and searching for the ties between Iran and Hezbollah, or Hamas).
        Examples:

        1) http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/rumor-of-the-century/ – where the quote ‘wipe off the map (of Israel) is questioned, but of course the ‘the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time’ is not. And to my knowledge, Israel is currently in control of Jerusalem. I have deliberately brought forth this website – as it does NOT have to do, to my knowledge, with the so-called hasbara campaign.

        2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
        This wiki page summarizes it all for you. The ‘he said, didn’t say’ arguments about several speeches, and the no argument about other statements.

        What can I say, if you don’t perceive the current Iranian leadership to be anti Israeli existence, than you are most welcome to that point of view. In any case, Israel considers Iran an enemy. All actions (including violent ones) against any Iranian target of interest, be it military, infrastructure, or financial are legitimate in such a case.

        As an ‘average Joe’, I am definitely for a peaceful middle east, including a sovereign Palestinian state, but don’t expect me (or Israel for that matter) to apologize for winning past and current wars, including the current one against Iran.

        Hope you post this. My ‘sources’ are as legitimate as the majority of the ones you have…

        1. Sure you don’t know Persian. But some who read this blog do & have addressed your false claims & refuted them. Relying on hasbara media to determine what Iranian leaders have or haven’t said about Israel is a fatal error. It will get you into trouble, at least trouble with the facts if nothing else.

          You have for the 2nd time stated a lie. You have also for the 2nd time violated the comment rules which I directed you to read. Next time, if you do write further comments, you violate the rules you will be moderated. Take the rules seriously as I do.

          As for yr sources, do you understand the diff. bet. a “regime” and a “state?” Israel is a state, not a regime. The current Israeli gov’t or if you want to stretch it the current Zionist philosophy of Israel might be said to be a regime. But Israel is not a regime. So no Iranian has called for the destruction of Israel. Further, saying that something will “vanish” is not the same as “destroying” it. The Iranians have said that ZIonism will vanish, not that it will be destroyed. Further still, nowhere in any of these statements is one saying the Iranians themselves will destroy Israel. They’ve said the regime will vanish, not at whose hands this will happen if indeed it will happen at anyone’s hands aside from the Zionist who run the “regime.”

          Finally, we’ve been over this ground before many times. One of my rules is once we’ve been over ground like this a few times, we’re done. We’re not going to rehash the issue ad infinitum.

          Just because Israeli leaders are ruled by the delusion that Iran wishes to destroy Israel doesn’t mean Israel may do whatever it wishes to destroy Iran. We don’t have to share in Israel’s delusion thankfully.

          1. Israel has been seeking war with Iran (or better, seeking the US to do war with Iran!) for some time. The “delusion” about Iran is strategy and Israel’s need to be unchallenged in the neighborhood. Israel’s aggression is funded by the US, so what is the point of even mentioning Iran’s funding of Hezbollah and other groups? Israel has made no accomodation with anyone in the neighborhood and so fighting and resistance continue and will continue forever, until accomodation is made, reparations paid to Palestinians or the Israel we all know and despise “vanishes” through the magic of history.

    2. @Jericho Siemens: “Iran’s leadership is calling for the destruction of Israel on a daily basis.”

      As Richard says, “Wrong, wrong, wrong.” Did somebody tell you that if you repeat a lie often enough it will eventually become truth?

  2. World of Bullycraft 2.0.

    aka realpolitik.

    Welcome to the world, Richard. Right makes might is a pollyanna concept that has a hard time gaining traction.

    That’s why the visions of Occupy, “Arab spring,” and Mubarak kissing a noose for what he has done are so appealing. I just can’t decide whether they are the antithesis of realpolitik or its evolution.

    Maybe someday Pollyanna will kick some butt.

  3. RE: “We never declared any policy remotely close to what Ayalon claimed. But why let facts get in the way…” ~ R.S.

    NOTE: “Sticks and stones may break our bones, but facts will never sway us.” ~ Neocon Creed

  4. Hi Richard

    Following your blog for a long time, I wonder. You say that you are a friend of Israel. Being Jewish, you must must have some feeling or some affinity to the Jewish state, unless you are a lunatic (which I don’t think so) like Noam Chomsky who is a complete Anarchist and anti anything that is pro America or its allies (including Israel).
    On the other hand, I’ve never found even one of yours blogs praising Israel. Is it such an evil state, that you cannot find even one good thing about it? Even such a simple and trivial things of the credit cards hacking- nobody is even thinking of waging a real war on any state or an individual. If you read carefully what Danny Ayalon says, there is no mentioning of any war. He refers to some sort of retribution- cyber one or any other type. This is fully legitimate even for an Israeli supporter like you.
    By the way, are you sure that the Stuxnet attack was staged by the US and Israel? Do you have any proof? I can give you plenty of theories who did it, but not even one proof.
    Having such friends like you, who needs enemies?

    Joshuaar

    1. If you can’t find anything positive, constructive I’ve written about Israel you haven’t read my blog closely enough. But 2nd, my job isn’t to be Israel’s cheerleader. There are thousands of others to do that job. Nor is it to measure out in teaspoons the positive & negative I write about Israel or gov’t policy & ensure balance. 3rd, Chomsky is neither a lunatic nor an anarchist. If you’ve read him as poorly as you’ve read me no wonder you don’t understand what I do here. 4th, I’ve never said that Israel was evil. I’ve said that Israeli policy is evil and those who implement it sometimes engage in acts that are evil. But that’s not the same as saying Israel is evil, which I would not do. 5th, I don’t think you’ve been following my blog “for a long time,” or at all. You know as much about my blog as I know about ancient Mesopotamian culinary practice.

      For a nation to take retribution against a script kiddie is truly deviant behavior. It’s not a nation’s job to do that. It is a company’s job to protect its online security & perhaps a nation’s job to help indirectly in this process. It is the police’s responsibility to apprehend anyone who violates a nation’s laws. But Israel as a nation exacting punishment for economic crimes & doing so as a matter of policy? Sorry, that’s bizarre.

      I’m not interested in theories about Stuxnet. I’ve read far more than you on the subject & assure you know more than you. Your theories don’t interest me in the least.

      1. Of course, now that you say that the company is responsible and there are police etc. it makes sense. But why not to Ayalon? I suggest that he sees the state as prior to any other activity, instituion, set of principles, etc. If a private credit card company is cyberattacked, it is an attack on the state. The citizen is not sacrosanct in Israel, certainly not any more, but the state is. This is standard blood and state right wing garbage, and we’ve heard it before.

        BTW, Chomsky is a brilliant guy who documents his telling of history, as does Finkelstein. There are lots of nice things about Israel but they are all devalued by the vicious racist militarist state, a state that has lost touch with real people and with reality. The world as a whole has had enough of Israeli doubletalk and bullying: It is time for real change. Maybe Chomsky should run for PM? Ah — but he can’t get into Israel. How’s about Finkelstein? Is he “allowed” into his land, the land created for him? I wonder.

        1. Dear David, or shall I call you dear Ayatollah David as a token of respect for being the mouthpiece of Iran. Your words (I quote) “until accommodation is made, reparations paid to Palestinians or the Israel we all know and despise “vanishes” through the magic of history” are identical to Achmadinazad words about Israel. He also wants to annihilate Israel or that Israel will vanish through history.

          Obviously, mutual respect between people doesn’t apply to liberals or those “liberal supporters” of Israel like you. I shall not dare to say that you are evil or a thug. You say so without proving it about Lieberman. The same apply when you accuse the IDF in lying without any proof. Can you prove that they are lying? Do you have any real proof about their lies? Same accusation without any proof about the killing of the Iranian scientist by the Mossad that you and Richard “know” from the horse mouth, that even the Iranian themselves don’t think so. They accuse the Americans in the killing, (http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/6259910/Iran-sends-rare-letter-to-US-over-scientist) but you and Richard know that the Mossad is involved. Can you prove it? Well….. sort of. A highly Israeli source (who- the Mossad itself? The PM or the defence minister?) that can be anyone in Israel told you? You don’t need any proof. It’s enough to say “from an Israeli source” and it become the truth. Give me a break.

          You write that Israel is ethnocracy. Prove it. Read my feedback from January 10th. I’ve already proved that Israel is a true democracy. To write cliché about Israel as an apartheid state is old stuff and shallow. You have to do your homework before writing about Israel. By the way, for your knowledge- “on Palestinians whose land they occupy”- go back to the history books and learn whose land it was pre 1967- just a hint- part of the land belonged to a country that starts with the letter J and another part with a letter E.
          Are you anti-Semite like your friends the Ayatollahs? I don’t think so. Being a liberal and from the left, you have a visceral hatred to anything that have to do with the Israeli establishment, although that establishment has the full mandate of the citizen of Israel through the ballot box. As I understand, your vision of Israel is of a non Jewish state where Jews are only a part of the population, with all the refugees returning back to their homes and financial compensation for the “suffering”. Not a word for the Jewish refugees from the Arab countries that were expelled and were fully integrated in Israel (on the contrary to the Arab refugees). Obviously, they are not important as they are only Jews. Well Ayatollah David, this will not happened. Read again my feedback January 10th. Israel was established (whether you like it or not) as a Jewish state and it was enshrined in the Declaration of Independence. It cannot be changed.
          Going back to the question of anti-Semitism- the liberals and the left cannot see themselves as anti-Semites as it contradicts their beliefs on racism and human rights. So they are convinced that they are not racists while those from the right are racists by default. Why? I don’t know. What weird is their association with all the states that are really anti-Semite, racist and abuser of human rights like Iran, Egypt etc. There is a complete abuse, rape, killing and persecutions of Christians in the Arab world. Just read what’s going with the Christians in Egypt, Iraq, Iran even Turkey, not to mention Pakistan. Christians are being driven out of all the Moslem countries. Nobody says a word. Not even the Liberals and the left who are so sensitive to any human right abuse or violation. Why? Are Moslem countries immune to any criticism from the left because of mutual interest on other issues? Can you or Richard explain this to me? I would really like to know why all the left from Chomsky to you, never raise the plight of the Christians communities in the Moslem world and they are biased only against Israel.

          1. I am not opposed to a Jewish state: I am opposed to a Jewish state that takes and takes and gives nothing, a state that has crushed indigeous people without shame, and one that claims to represent Judaism and does not. I am opposed to expansion by military conquest. Don’t try to make me the fool about Jordan — the point is that someone Arab lived there and does not live there now. Israel is an ethnocracy as it exists for the Jewish people by its own pronouncements and self-definition.

            I am opposed to the slur of anti-semitism and the connection with the Ayatollahs. I do, however, understand their outrage.

            I believe that the forces that dominate Israel now will disappear and a new state will arise. Hence “vanish”.

            I am opposed to injustice and what has been done to indigenous Arabs by exploiting Jews is a grotesque injustice. If you can’t feel that, then I am opposed to you as well.

          2. Israel touts itself as a civilized democracy in the Western mold. This is why it is attacked for its hypocrisy and abuses and lies.

          3. I find this comment offensive and it violates the comment rules. You may not hurl gratuitous insults at others here. Read the rules & do so carefully. You ESP. May not call anyone here “evil,” nor may you call anyone an “anti-Semite” unless you can prove they’ve actually written something that is factually verifiable as anti-Semitic.

            You also may not lie about Iranian statements about Israel, which has NOT said it planned to annihilate Israel. You’re skating on very thin ice.

            The Iranians have explicitly blamed Israel and the U.S. for the assassinations & claiming otherwise is a bald faced lie on your part.

            I have writtten thousands of words about Israel as ethnocracy. No one needs to prove Israel is one as I’ve already done so. Further, if you think you’ve “proven” Israel is a democracy you’ve been afflicted with a serious delusion. You’ve proven no such thing nor can such a thing be proven since it isn’t true.

            Hey, btw I’ll give you a hint about who the West Bank belonged to. Country “J.” you mentioned actually formally gave up its rights to the West Bank to country “P.” Or did you forget about that little historical fact? Hmmm, seems you did.

            No one here is talking about Israel as a “non-Jewish” state. In fact, the very idea is nonsensical. What we’re talking about is Israel as a state in which they are Jews with equal rights to those who aren’t Jews.

            You haven’t presented any evidence that any Jews were expelled from Arab lands as nearly 1 million Israeli Palestinians were expelled during the Nakba. Do you have any credible evidence from credible sources? I’m not arguing that there may be some true Jewish refugees who were actually physically & violently expelled from Arab countries. But I’d like to see very specific evidence to support the claim. Not Jews who chose to leave or Jews who deliberately chose to make aliyah. But Jews who were forcibly expelled. Do you have any such evidence?

            BTW, Jewish immigrants from Arab lands were not “fully integrated” into Israel. In fact, they faced almost the same level of prejudice as Palestinian Israelis. They’ve overcome a good deal of it, but Mizrahim still face racism inside Israel.

            Israel was not enshrined solely as a Jewish state. It was enshrined as a state that offered equality for its Jewish & non-Jewish citizens. It doesn’t offer that. So it hasn’t realized that vision in its Declaration of Independence. Why not?

            Your comment is largely off-topic, another comment rule violation. For all of the ones I’ve listed, you will be moderated until I’m confident you’ve read the rules, understand them, & will follow them.

          4. It’s interesting that your defense of Israeli inhuman policies is to point to other states in the ‘hood and their abuses. But, Israel does not claim to be another MidEast state, but a Western state and yet you cannot point to Western states in defense of racist policies, brutal human right abuses, illegal occupation, illegal settlements etc.

            Also, Israel is an Apartheid state (though different in many ways from South Africa). It has violated the Apartheid standard (I forget what organization and what states signed on). And it is “old stuff” just as you say. And still indefensible.

  5. I’m not going to argue with you whether I follow your blogs or if Chomsky is a lunatic anarchist or not. This is not the point. The point is the depiction of the Israeli policy as evil. Israel is a true democratic state, unlike other people/Islamic/autocratic “democratic” states. Israel is the only true democratic state in the Middle East who respects human rights and the rule of law. Bibi Netanyahu and his government was legally elected and has the mandate of the majority of the people of Israel to rule. He implements the mandate given to him by the people. Whether you like it or not is immaterial. The majority of the Israeli citizen support him and you, as a non Israeli citizen (neither am I), are entitled to air your opinion the same as I am entitled but you cannot (neither can I) make derogatory comments on the Israeli policies, the government etc. You have no right to say that the IDF are liars, or to imply that they are engaged in war crime. You have no right to call Israeli ministers in derogatory names, You don’t need to like Avidgor Lieberman (neither do I) but to call him “Moldovan Kahane muscle” implying he is a thug- This is Evil.
    Richard, discussions whether Iran wants to annihilate Israel or not, or if the settlers are wrong or not, the talk about a hacker and a cyber war are not the issue. You were not elected and nobody gave you a mandate to criticize Israeli policy, the Idf and the Israeli government in a derogatory way. To imply that they have some evil agenda, implying war crimes and human rights abuse is a complete lie which backfire badly on yourself. It also contradict your assertion of being a supporter of the state of Israel and indirectly assisting the Israelis enemies in their de-legitimization campaign against the state of Israel.

    1. OH, boy . . . here we go.

      First, the old any-criticism-is-“de-legitimization” crap. After that we get the “existential” argument, which will be followed closely by “anti-Semite,” just watch.

      To American Zionist Jews, like this guy and Abe Foxman, the U.S. Constitution and, specifically, the 1st Amendment comes in a distant fourth to these three arguments against free speech.

      Richard can certainly handle this rabble on his own, but I think it is absolutely imperative that those of us who are Americans — as opposed to Zionists living in America like this guy, apparently — make the point that America and its principles come first. Always.

      And that includes our 1st Amendment and the right to criticize Israel, its policies, and its politicians.

      1. What a crap. Nobody is talking about “anti Semite”. Richard is definitely not one. He is not evil either, only the way he writes is evil. I don’t condemn him as a person, and he has the right to write whatever he thinks and about any topic he thinks. This is his democratic right. What I condemn is the way he writes and the insinuation he make about Israel that is helping indirectly to the de legitimization campaign against Israel. At the same time, he profess to be a supporter of Israel and I struggle to reconcile his assertion with his way of writing.
        What this has to do with America and the 1st amendment? Nothing. An American can decide his own fate and future in the ballot box as an Israeli can in his own country. An American Zionist is first of all an American and than a Zionist or like Richard and probably you, first of all an American and than an anti Zionist. I have no problem with that. Everybody is entitled to his belief. This is democracy. I have no problem with anti Israeli or pro Palestinian groups who write all sort of thins or campaign against Israel. This is their democratic right. I have a problem with one who says that he is a supporter of that state, but his writings are the opposite. I wonder what a word Webster dictionary will give to such a behaviour.

        1. “You have no right to say that the IDF are liars, or to imply that they are engaged in war crime. You have no right to call Israeli ministers in derogatory names, You don’t need to like Avidgor Lieberman (neither do I) but to call him “Moldovan Kahane muscle” implying he is a thug- This is Evil.”

          These racists aren’t evil ? Kahane was not a thug? What did I miss?

          I have every right to say that the IDF are liars because they are, and yes it has committed innumerable war crimes and will someday be held to account in a court. Israel is not a democracy but an ethnocracy and being feigning democractic institutions in the middle east is not much of an achievement for a state that claims to have “common values” with the West. It is the failure of democracy in Israel that is most telling, the failure to stay the course but rather to have succumbed to the temptations of power and victory through fear mongering and a discredited ideology. Israel has been tested and it has failed big time by silencing dissent, intimidating citizens, treating one race different from another and making continuous war on Palestinians whose land they occupy.

          Many nice things about Israel but the IDF, and its deluded ideologues, are not among them. Netanyahu is not one of them, nor is Adelson, Barak and the rest of these people stealing land for their fellow Jews. Such noble purpose! I can tell you — world jewry is so proud of these thugs. We are proud of the IDF pushing around unarmed people, using phosphor bombs on civilians. Damn proud, I tell you.

          Bulldoze some more homes belonging to others, “Judaize” (sort of like “Aryanize”) the Galilee by “transfers” (sort of like “resettlement”, eh?). Lots to like about Israel but not the state, the military, laws and policies…just for a starter.
          No Israeli supporting that state would be welcome in my home.

    2. You claimed you were a regular reader of my blog & that Chomsky was a lunatic anarchist. Now you claim that’s “not the point.” If it isn’t then why waste everyone’s time by making these false claims to begin with? The rule here is if you betray yr ignorance you’ll be called on it. So if you aren’t able to defend a claim don’t make it.

      Israel certainly is NOT a democratic state in the sense of a European or western democracy. It is a state with nominal democratic rights for Jews & far less rights for non-Jews. That’s ethnocracy, not democracy. Turkey and Lebanon are also ME democratic states which, while both challenged, are at least as democratic as Israel.

      I could care less about what you believe I do or don’t have the right to say. You aren’t my arbiter of what’s appropriate. I have a “mandate” and it is this blog & i will use it as aggressively as i can to promote a vision of israel that is democratic, tolerant & egalitarian for ALL citizens.

      And for calling what I write “evil” & violating the comment rules (yet again) you will be moderated.

      You are truly naive, very poorly read & a neophyte at this. You should sit back & read more & comment less. Your simplistic views don’t do you or yr cause any favors. If you’re a college student yoyu have slot more reading & studying before your views become credible. If you’re not then the same holds true, except I wonder what you did with your college education.

  6. Israel is a true democracy. Its declaration of Independence which serve as a foundation of its future constitution (Israel has no constitution at present) clearly states that it is a Jewish states and as such was accepted in the world and endorsed by the UN in 1948. The declaration gives full rights to non Jewish people. Jews and non Jews have the same rights, can vote and be elected to any office. Arabs are serving as MP, judges and head of departments in hospitals etc. I don’t see any reason for you to say that Israel is ethnocracy. This is a distortion of the truth. How can you compare the democracy in Israel to the ones in Turkey and Lebanon. 128,000 prisoners are in Turkey, of whom 42% are in jail without any trial. They have just incarcerated 450 officers on the pretence of trying to overthrow the government. In Lebanon, Iran and Syria through its proxy Hezbollah, control the state. How you can even compare these “democracies” to Israel’s one.

    What you want and I quote : “to promote a vision of Israel that is democratic, tolerant & egalitarian for ALL citizens.” Well, Israel is exactly that, but within the boundaries of the declaration- A Jewish state. What you want is a non Jewish state, which is in contravention to the declaration and to the wish of the majority of the citizens of Israel. This cannot happened and you as a non Israeli citizen, can write blogs as much as you want, but cannot change the nature of the Jewish state.

    A note- I’ve never said that what you write is evil. Read carefully what I wrote- the way that you write is evil. You are entitled to write whatever you want, even if I disagree with you. This is your democratic right. But, to call the IDF liars or to hint that they may commit war crimes, to hint that Lieberman is a thug and so on, is evil and unacceptable. This is my democratic right to say. I shall never write in such a way against you, although I disagree to everything you write. I shall always respect your thoughts and will never depict you the same way you do against the IDF or the Israeli ministers. I’ve the feeling that you are writing in such a way in order to try and capture more readers. If this is the case, I wonder how successful you are.

    About your last paragraph- read my previous one. Being an amateur politician and blogger, doesn’t make you an expert. You are still a blogger that writes his thoughts, waiting for feed back. Well, I write feed backs. I am not a blogger, but I have my own ideas and thoughts and expect to be respected as I respect you.

    1. IDF has told tall stories for decades. And Lieberman is a thug and a poor statesmen (as virtually no civilized state will receive him!). I don’t think Richard “hints” at any of this. He is not indirect or disingenuous at all. He tells it straight, citing sources as he is able. As for being “for Israel”, I was “for Israel” until the last two years when I began — just began, mind you — asking some hard questions. I am still “for Israel” but not its government, policies, military and some of its racist laws. That is my perogative as a thinking person. Richard’s work is very valuable because the Big Media are unable to report criticisms of Israel for some bizarre reason. Richard provides an alernate voice reporting events from an angle not envisioned by Big Media. I am pleased to have discovered this site and a handful of other sites dedicated to reporting Israel events that other media won’t touch.

      Keep it coming, Richard.

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