Yoav Yitzhak reports (Hebrew) in News1 that despite a police appeal for dismissal of the gag order in the case of Yoav Even, Channel 2 TV news reporter accused of brutally raping a women at the end of February, the judge has extended it. Noteworthy in his decision, which balances the need for “respecting the good name of the suspect” against the public’s right to know, is the omission of the interests of the victim. Which of course leads one to the conclusion that she has none, at least in the eyes of the court and this judge.
The judge, Benny Sagi, also makes clear that he is troubled by the fact that the suspect may, somehow, not have understood clearly the wishes of the victim. This somehow works to Even’s favor and creates a need, in the judge’s mind, to protect the suspect’s identity:
The central claim of this case is rape. The damage likely to occur to the accused if such an accusation is published is of the gravest sort. In noting the strength [i.e. “weakness,” he just didn’t want to use the political incorrect word] of the evidence to which I related in my decision to free the suspect, I do not think such damage is warranted.
In other words, this judge has implied he is so troubled by the issues raised by the defense (that the victim was allegedly “sexually aggressive,” liked “rough sex,” and had two drinks offered by the accused) that he thinks the defendant might not be convicted. For this reason, he continues to protect him.
And let it not be said that Sagi protects dashing journalists accused of rape alone. He also, and again against the will of the police, offered a senior Israeli attorney, accused of embezzling massive sums from businessmen, a similar gag order. In this case, the judge accepted the defense’s argument that publishing the lawyer’s name would break the very heart of his ailing 84 year-old mother. Let it not be said that Israeli justice shows any deference to the rich and well-connected.
I continue to be deeply disturbed by the underlying sexism expressed in both the judge’s language above, and the clamoring of an almost universally male Israeli audience for maintenance of the gag. I find it astonishing that the judge makes no reference whatsoever in his decision to the victim. It’s as if she doesn’t exist. If she doesn’t exist for the judge, imagine how much less so she might exist for the police, prosecutor who will have to bring the case to trial, or for the alleged rapist on the night of the attack.
Further, the judge appears to be judging, even before a decision on whether to try the case or not, what is the likelihood that Even can be convicted. And this seems to be the sole criteria he uses to extend the gag and protect him. Funny, now I thought judges were meant to hear all the evidence before determining guilt or innocence. I think basically, Sagi is telegraphing to the prosecution that he thinks they have a losing case. Would it be any wonder if the State drops the case? Though let’s hope it will not.
I also note the judge has confirmed that Hadas Shtaif’s claim that the case has been dropped is wrong. The judge made clear that the case is now with the prosecutor who will make the decision on whether to prosecute.
Alas, Even’s Facebook page is no more. But an enterprising Rotter member appropriated these images from it before the account expired. The caption for another image (not displayed here) of Even in cut offs drinking a brew with a tall comely blond wench by his side said:
At the birthday party for one of the finest blondes…
Photos do not convict anyone of a crime. But clearly the man thinks highly of himself, his body, his magnetic charm, and his way with the ladies.
A society where OJ Simpson is declared not guilty, lost the right to critisize Isreal Justice system. You’d better look much closer to your home.
Talking about “deeply disturbed by the underlying sexism expressed in both the judge”, ye, right.
I am not a society and OJ Simpson is so far off topic I think you’ve just left the solar system. Stay on topic.
Sometimes a gag order is just a gag order.
I think you may not realize a few fundamental things about the administration of justice in a criminal prosecution. When a person is charged with a crime, what usually happens is that it is the State that undertakes the prosecution, not the victim. As such, the accused is afforded certain rights, like the presumption of innocence etc. Why? Because the accused is up against the relatively limitless resources of the state. Even the wealthiest people do not have at their disposal a police force, a team of investigators and lawyers. While you carefully craft your words, the contempt you have for the Israeli justice system and the accused in this case is clear. I can understand taking issue with security and politically motivated gag orders but this campaign of yours is craven beyond words. Individual lives are being affected and you don’t care about the repercussions and feel you know better than duly trained and qualified jurists. One can’t help but be taken aback by your venomous contempt and your desire to gain publicity for your blog regardless of the consequences. I am simply appalled. And no, I am not a macho man defending institutional sexism. I am a woman who is concerned with the proper administration of justice and individual rights.
Yes, if someone is a rapist I do have contempt for him. But I don’t know for sure that he is, so I don’t have contempt for him yet. As for the justice system, I think your judgments are far too sweeping. When I criticize the justice system I do it citing chapter & verse. I certainly criticize it in security cases & in this case as well.
What about the victim? What about her life being affected by this, by an alleged rape. You claim “lives” are being affected but there is really only one life you care about, his. Only one set of repurcussions you care about–those affecting him.
As for Sagi, the “jurist” as you call him in such dignified terms, his decisions merit criticism and he will get them from me. Apparently, the police agree with me since they support removing the gag order.
That is such a stupid lie. At least four others like you have made the same annoying, offensive claim. My blog gains nothing here. It is not my blog that is important. It is an idea, a set of values that is important. The values and idea are lost on you, but not on the thousands of other Israelis who have visited and read about this case in the past days because a judge sought to protect the powerful instead of the victim; and because they cannot freely read about a case that is important to them and their society. If the court system was more open & transparent in Israel no one would need to read my blog and I wouldn’t care a whit, because it would mean Israel had the kind of justice system in these particular cases that it needs & should have. Till that happens, I’m afraid you’ve got me.
YOu’re a woman concerned with protecting Yoav Even’s rights to be more precise. The rights of an alleged rapist. Sure, he DOES have rights. But his rights don’t trump the public’s or the victim’s. You seem to have missed that lesson somewhere along the line.
I would also like to know why you are submitting comments using the same IP address as the commenter, Pea. If you are the same person please decide which identity you wish to maintain. I don’t allow commenters to maintain two separate identities. Others have done this and it’s a very bad idea.
Don’t argue with Richard. He knows what happened even though he is thousands of miles away from the events. He even posted a whole blog dedicated to hating Yoav Even, mocking him, making fun of his Facebook pictures, and labelling him as a rapist because, you know, Israel is a mysognist place and anyone who accuses anyone of rape is automatically right. What’s the point of investigating the allegation? Just lock Even away. Justice, Richard Silverstein style! yeee haw
First, Rotter got there well before me & everything I wrote was pretty much already published there. I could be more explicit because unlike Rotter, I could explicitly name what he was charged with. Second, you have lied about my supposedly labelling Even a rapist as I always call him “alleged” or “suspect” or “accused.”
I never said this & this is yet another lie about what I believe or have written.
This is a formal warning that the next time you violate my comment rules in any way you will lose yr privileges.
Your first post on this subject is tagged “Yoav Even Rapist” though latter ones are tagged “Yoav Even accused rapist”
Mazel tov, in the 50 diff. instances in which I connected his name to the term “rape” or “rapist” you’ve found one instance in which I left out a qualifier.
And add a few pictures of his, mocking his appearance, because you clearly dislike him and everything he represents (zahals uniform). You never called him rapist, you only implied u believe hes one. Big difference, right?
If so many people who read ur blog came to this conclusion – maybe you dont know how to express ur thoughts very well, Richard?
You also never said anyone accusing anyone of rape is automaticlly right, you only dedicated 3 or 4 posts to implying this is the case, and that “powerfull” men of israel can rape whoever they want, and that women here wont complain as no one would care anyway.
That is an outright lie. I never commented on his uniform or disparaged him because of his IDF service. So I’m offering you a choice here: you will apologize for this outright lie or you will lose yr privileges. If you do not apologize for this distortion you will. I expect to hear from you within 24 hrs. or you will have made your own bed.
Where did I imply I believe he is one??
Right, im terribly sorry. It wasnt the uniform. it was him standing next to an army vehicle. That changes the whole picture
YES, GODDAMNIT, EXACTLY!
The same “archetype” you blame for being non senstivie towards women, and generally violent. The same “archetpye” which represents the male-army-dominated israeli society.
What *is* so archetypical in this picture to you? The muscular frame? Or the armored vehicle behind him? Or the combination?
You’ve been writing dozens of responses in the last few days about the non senstivie israeli men, and then u claim hes an “archetype” for us. Doesnt this mean u dislike him if u clearly dislike his type?
Whereever u wrote about the abysmall chances of the alleged victim lying, and mocked smeone for finding a story where the accused person didnt actually rape as someone who uses “g. bush version of the internet”. You’re trying to convince us time and again theres almost no chance he didnt rape, you bring statistics to prove we’re sexually violent here, you make all kinds of claims about the judge. Whats the point of all that? Unless there is NO point, which also might be the case – you show ur position in this case very well.
So what should i apologize for ? For reading line after line *exactly* what u wrote and making the simple logical conclusions?
Anyway, dont even bother. I know ur atomatic response will be writing for the 5000 times how i dont understand what u really mean, and that ur full of love and respect to mr even and everything he represents.
Have a good luck with your hunderd of thousands of imaginary followers in israel, and keep on thinking u represent the israeli mainstream, which u bash and mock in every possible post.
No, it wasn’t. It was the naked torso which he flaunted in multiple pictures on his FB page.
Wrong again. Just tonight I wrote about a Border Policewoman who tortured a Palestinian boy. Unfortunately, Israeli women torture as well & males don’t have a monopoly on this in the IDF. I’m so glad I banned you because your arguments get more & more dopey and beside the point.
Wong again. I’ve been writing very specific replies to the specific Israeli men like you who’ve come here abusing the victim in the Even rape case. I’ve noted correctly that they are Israeli men and that their gender & the society in which they were raised has influenced their moral obtuseness. This is self-evident to all but you, Judi, Mia & a few other pro-Israel stragglers.
You claimed I implied he was a rapist. I asked for proof. And instead of bringing any specific proof in which I said or implied very specifically that he was a rapist you provide absolutely no proof of this specific claim. Again, I NEVER said that there’s “almost no chance he didn’t rape.” I simply never said it. Period. And this is yet another reason I’ve grown tired of your boring repetition of distortions & lies passing for truth in your sorry brain.
There is a big difference between “disliking Zahal’s uniform” and disliking public people showing off their half-naked tatooed bodies in sexy poses in half-uniforms or next to armored vehicles.
It is the posted picture which equates macho masculinity and sexist erotic undertones with Zahal, a connection which I find very distasteful, even in a personal fb page, and especially when concerning a public persona.
Precisely my view. Thanks.
I was commenting from a wifi hotspot at Cafe Aroma in Jerusalem. Now I am enjoying lunch at Pasta Basta, another open wifi hotspot. Hope that’s ok. I don’t know Pea but if she’s reading this I invite her to say hi. I have short red hair.
Your contempt for the accused is readily apparent, and this post is no different from the others based on your comments, the photos you posted and your choice of clever captions. You asked “What about the victim?” and the answer to that is as follows.
The alleged victim benefits from having at her disposal the combined resources of the State’s investigative and prosecutorial entities. The victim also benefits from the protection of her anonymity because this is a case of alleged sexual assault. The victim also enjoys certain advantages regarding the admissibility of certain potentially exculpatory evidence, by sole virtue of this being a sexual assault case. These special benefits accorded only in cases of alleged sexual assault are the result of hard fought reforms to western judicial processes that used to be systematically disadvantageous to rape victims and I support them wholeheartedly. I know first hand how difficult it is, even now, for victims of sexual assault to report the crime – and this is the case in all western countries, not just Israel.
However, as a believer in due process, I retain my faith in the judges and their informed decisions. You have issues with gag orders and I understand that. You don’t however seem to feel that the alleged victims name should be released even though in doing so, it might, hypothetically, lead to the revelation of information that might exonerate the accused. There’s a flaw in your expressed desire for openness for the sake of justice and one can’t help but wonder what is at the root of this logical inconsistency.
Is it an innate sympathy for the victim that causes this inconsistency? I suggested the irresistibility of cementing your position as the “Wikileaks of Israel” even though this case has nothing to do with your usual beat. You say this is a “lie” but it remains a reasonable supposition.
I don’t know Yoav Even from Jack. I don’t even own a Television. My sole concern is the protection of individual rights and the delicate balancing act that is required in the case of accused and accuser. My position here is nuanced, informed, free of political considerations and rigorously consistent. That’s mire than I can say for you in this case.
Wow. I haven’t posted from Aroma in like, forever. Plus on Friday it’s a mad house. But I’ll keep my eye out for a red head with a laptop, although the spelling error on your last sentence suggests an iPad or iPhone with wonky spell check! I think you meant “more” instead of “mire.” Your perspective is interesting and I’m sure we can discuss it if we ever meet.
This isn’t your Facebook or Twitter account nor your social networking site. Don’t be cute. Stay on topic.
The state’s investigative and prosecutorial entities (not to mention judicial) would much rather have a beer with yoav than protect the rights of women. This is doubly true for well connected people in places of power. Power over information, might I add.
People who care need to be on guard even when the system doesn’t fail so fantasticly as it did here. The (alleged) rape victim is always terribly disadvantaged. I this case, it’s perfectly reasonable to aggressively side against the accused.
Btw, this has everything to do with other gags israel suffers. Only in an environment of complete and blind “the state knows best” can these things go under the public radar. Only when enough arabs, and then leftists, are damaged by gags, can jewish women be victimised by them. I’m guessing next would be seular jewish men. Freedom of information is even more important then the rights of both the victim and the suspect.
Your comment reminds me of that famous Martin Niemöller (German pastor) quote:
“First they came for the communists
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t one.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t one.
Then they came for the social-democrats,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t one.
Then they came for the Jews
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t one.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak out for me”
Niemöller changed the order on various occasions, and included Catholics, the Witnesses of Jehova, the mentally sick, but his denounciation is still valuable.
That was intentional, and, I think, appropriate. I think it’s very relevant for israel, especially these days. The treatment to which arabs have been subjected for decades has become almost normalised for leftists, and is slowly spilling into the “general population”. Gag orders for the highest bidder is just one symptom of that.
Could we please clone you? The Israeli peace movement needs multiple ducks for it to get anywhere.
The correlation between the dispossession/occupation and misogyny and violence against women is a very interesting one. Both misogyny and military occupation require you to have an entrenched and selfish sense of your own entitlement, no matter what the personal cost to others. It’s easy to see how one fuels the other.
Thanks, but ofc, duck genes don’t splice.
There is nothing like serving an immoral army to teach you the “true” meaning of “bad”, “good” and “no”.
Get a few things straight here. If you want to be cute & witty, do it somewhere else. I have absolutely no interest in you recoutning to us your culinary or social life or choices. Nor do I want to know what you look like or hear you give shout outs to anyone. If you want to do that do it elsewhere.
And if you repeat your baseless, lying claims portraying my attitudes to Yoav Even you will be moderated. I have contempt for rapists & I think there is a reasonable chance that Even is one. I don’t find him to be a rapist & make that clear in what I write. If you wish to smear and act in bad faith you will not be here long doing so.
This victim does not have the benefits you claim. She has a judge who has already before trial expressed grave doubts about her claims & case. She has a police force and prosecution which historically shows undue deference to powerful males accused of rape. The combined resources of the State are NOT at her disposal, again as you falsely claim. That’s why it’s so important that the playing field be levelled & the gag be dismissed.
You retain your faith in a judge who, in this case, has already shown a predisposition to side with the defense & with Even. I don’t share your faith.
As for releasing the victim’s name: I’m in favor of doing so if she wishes to do so. You don’t seem to realize that unlike the accused, the victim is protected by law from having her identity revealed. She must in fact reounce her privacy before a judge before it is legal to name her publicly. If she doesn’t want her identity revealed it shouldn’t be. And if you don’t understand why this all should be so then you really don’t embrace the reforms in rape trial procedures you claim to. And in fact you are a hypocrite because you claim to embrace these reforms but just for the sake of arguing with me you wish to abrogate them. This is argument in bad faith, something that seems to characterize you to a T.
Absolutely false, It only has nothing to do with my “beat” in your limited conception of my blog, which by the way isn’t MY conception. Considering I’ve enumerated very clearly the reasons this case is important in the context of all my previous reporting on government secrecy and democratic values & due process, again, you’re either acting in bad faith or you just don’t bother to read. Which is it?
That’s remarkable since you’ve just said that the victim’s identity should be exposed. So once again you prove that you only respect the individual rights of accused male rapists, but not potential female victims.
I’m going to ask a personal question which I only want you to answer to yrself & certainly don’t wish you to answer publicly. Have you ever been raped? Assaulted? I doubt it. If you had you wouldn’t engage in the outrageous rheotrical games you have here.
And this is not a game for me either. Several women who are very dear to me have been both raped and assaulted. I know, second hand, the very real suffering of this act. It is a good part of (though not by any means the sole) the reason why I’m especially interested in the issue.
And you’re a legend in yr own mind as well.
I never suggested that the complainant’s name should be released unless she decided to do so. Maintaining a complainant’s anonymity in a trial for sexual assault is essential in order to facilitate the reporting of sexual assaults. I am all in favor of this for it’s obvious public policy benefits even as it makes it that much more difficult for a defendant to discover exculpatory evidence. The combined resources of the state are indeed at her disposal. The complainant is not the one conducting the investigation. The complainant is not the one hiring lawyers to prosecute the defendant. You may claim that these efforts expended on her behalf are colored by the underlying institutions’ systematic and historical misogyny but the facts I stated still stand. My preference is to work within the system. The system has evolved and become more attuned to the interests of victims of sexual assault and I’d like that progress to continue. I don’t see anything positive developing from the creation of a lynch mob mentality in such cases. Given how difficult it is, even under the best of circumstances, for a woman to report a rape, I tend to sympathize with the victim right from the get go. False claims of rape that make it to a judge are extremely rare and I prefer to see these cases prosecuted by the book so as not to give any extraneous ammunition to the defense. That is what lies at the root of my issue with the way you are handling this gag order. As to your question, it’s offensive to the extreme. I can’t even begin to address how horrifically offended I am right now. And if you don’t want me to be cutesy or whatever, please don’t even hint at my IP address. You could simply have sent me an email if you were so concerned.
That is a completely false portrayal of what you actually said. What you actually said was that if the accused’s name should be revealed why not the victim’s? You made no mention whatsoever of exposing her identity only if she wished. In fact, I was the one, not you, who pointed out that under Israeli law, there is only one legal way to reveal her identity & that is if she not only wishes it, but appears before a judge to demand it. Now you are changing yr tune once I’ve pointed out to you the hypocrisy of yr past position on these two matters.
I don’t only “claim” it, most Israeli women esp. those who have suffered through this process will tell you, if you bother to take the time to ask them, that this is indeed what happened to them under the Israeli system. So your claim that it is a fact that the entire resources of the state are at her disposal not only doesn’t stand, if falls. Those resources are entire behind her only if the state is behind her and in far too many cases of this kind the state makes a partial or half hearted effort. There may be some cases in which an esp. diligent prosecutor or police officer may make a personal, individual difference & do an esp. thorough & diligent job representing the victim’s interests. But this is by no means guaranteed & in fact happens in the breach rather than routinely.
More meaningless hyperbole. What I’ve advocated would do nothing of the sort. You’re beginning to sound like Clarence Thomas & actually yr positions on these matters prob. have much in common. Congratulations on that.
You’ve expressed no sympathy whatsoever w. any rape victims in this thread & most partiuclarly w. the victim in this case. Instead, you’ve attacked my position which is the only one which has expressed real sympathy for her.
Here too you’ve implied that this case is one of a false claim since this is a case that you’re demanding be “prosecuted by the book.” You’ve joined the judge in suspecting that our victim is a liar.
My, my we’ve touched a nerve haven’t we? Clearly, your answer once again explains your entire lack of sensitivity to anyone who may’ve experienced this horrible crime perpetrated upon them. Clearly, you can do so in vague general & theoretical terms. But in a specific case involving a specific woman, you lose your empathy & the consistency of any principles you might have. Do you have any?
Mia,
Why do you find Richard’s question so offensive? He didn’t ask you to give an answer to anyone, just to consider it privately. I think it’s important that people do this whenever they talk about an emotive topic – it’s good for us all to reflect on how our personal experiences shape our views.
As a woman who has been sexually assaulted and who knows women who have suffered much worse, I have been wary about visiting Tikkun Olam for the past few days because of the comments on these Yoav Even posts. I got back from Jordan yesterday, exhausted after two solid days in a bus and feeling ready to sleep for a fortnight. I decided to check my e-mail and my usual blogs before I went to bed. Big mistake. After I saw the rape apologia that was going on here, I spent a large part of the night pacing my roof, trying to get the anger and anxiety out of my system. I’m at peace with what happened to me, and it doesn’t really affect my life any more, so I can only imagine what it must be like for a woman who is still suffering to read some of these comments. Comments claiming that half of rape allegations are made up. Comments suggesting that putting the name of the accused in the public domain is the same as vilification. (It’s not – you can share such knowledge in a neutral way.) Comments that prioritise the privacy of the accused above the accuser’s need to make her voice heard in a secretive system that is already weighted in favour of powerful males. If you are fortunate enough never to have experienced sexual assault, please try and imagine how these things look to those of us who have.
Thank you, Vicky. But I am very sorry to have spoiled your sleep for the night.
Reading these posts is no problem. They don’t bother me. It’s the comments about false reporting rates and the what-about-the-men sentiments that get to me. When somebody is accused of mugging or armed robbery, nobody feels the need to come along and talk about the false allegations that are made – this scepticism only appears to surface when it’s rape. No wonder so few women report it to the police.
I’d like to direct my first comments to Vicky. You asked why I found Richard’s question so offensive. Without revealing anything personal, I’d like you to reflect for a moment on being a victim of sexual assault, hypothetically, ok? Don’t you think that a victim reflects and relives that experience over and over in her mind? And that such reflection can be at times quite traumatic? Do you think that if I were so victimized I would need anyone at all to urge me to contemplate that?? On the other hand, the problems associated with reporting sexual assault are immediately relevant to women but every man has a mother and many have sisters, wives, girlfriends etc. Injustice towards women ought not be framed as a uniquely female problem. Such injustice ultimately affects an entire society. This lesson is a hard fought one and all the changes that we have worked so hard for have been incremental and have required having to educate people, both men and women, about the pernicious and complicated nature of sexual assault. We still have a way to go and I don’t feel this series of posts help improve the situation. Of course Richard is opposed to rape and misogyny but he has other agendas as well and thus has colored the debate here in what I believe is an unproductive manner. He’s also quite the bully, telling me what I really meant to say despite my clear and unequivocal statements to the contrary. I do not believe a complainant in a sexual assault case should have her name released against her will. Reporting a rape is already traumatic enough. But if an accused convinces a judge to issue a gag order, that too ought to be respected. You can’t try to both benefit from and subvert the justice system at the same time.
Richard: whatever progress victims of sexual assault have made over the last few decades, there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. Misogyny runs deep and the fight is a difficult one. The issues that we struggle with in the Israeli justice system are difficult enough and are unfortunately not unique to Israel in the context of Western democracies. You don’t know me and you have no grasp of my nuanced position. Your criticism of me is colored by disagreements we’ve had in the past and your tone is both dismissive and insulting. But it’s your blog. You want to distort my comments and belittle me, go right ahead.
“I do not believe a complainant in a sexual assault case should have her name released against her will. Reporting a rape is already traumatic enough. But if an accused convinces a judge to issue a gag order, that too ought to be respected. You can’t try to both benefit from and subvert the justice system at the same time.”
I think the point is that gag orders are already a subversion of the justice system. They are not the same as a law that applies equally to all: they can be issued at the discretion of a specific judge to specific people. Duck summed it up aptly when he said that they go to the highest bidder. This demonstration of power at work is particularly worrying when the accusation itself is about one person’s power over another.
“You asked why I found Richard’s question so offensive. Without revealing anything personal, I’d like you to reflect for a moment on being a victim of sexual assault, hypothetically, ok? Don’t you think that a victim reflects and relives that experience over and over in her mind?”
I made it plain in my comment that this is not a hypothetical for me. I was a victim of sexual assault. If you are asking me to reflect on a victim’s perspective, I think you must only have read the first paragraph of my comment.
I would like to make a distinction between personal reflection and intrusive memories. As the name suggests, intrusive memories are uncontrollable. They also tend to impair your functioning to some degree. Reflection is something different. “How did that experience affect me and shape my thoughts on this issue?” is a constructive question over which I have control. They aren’t the same thing.
Sorry, I just don’t buy it. As I wrote, women near and dear to me have suffered the ultimate in such circumstances & they contemplate this virtually every day whether they like it or not, & whether someone brings up the subject or not. Someone bringing up the subject as I did would not likely threaten such a person. However, bringing it up to a person who simply doesn’t like my politics & is looking for an argument–that person might be offended on behalf of her imaginary hypothetical rape victim. Since you’re speaking in hypotheticals yr argument also holds very little weight.
Funny, but you & poor Judi who is no longer with us were the only women commenting here & virtually the only Israeli women I’ve read in all the Hebrew language blogs I’ve read on this subject, who seem obsessed by the very slim possibility that this is a case of false rape. I wonder why you’re more concerned with this prospect than you are that a potentially guilty man might not be tried. Methinks you have a case of misplaced priorities.
So we should sympathize will accused male rapists because they have female relatives who might suffer with them through a rape trial?
Note, dear readers how this person claiming to have such deep sympathies for Israeli women in general has no sympathy whatsoever for the alleged individual rape victim in this case.
Do tell what changes have you in particular worked so hard for & what have you individually done to bring them about? I’m just curious…
Ah, you mean the “pernicious & complicated nature of false charges of sexual assault,” don’t you? I haven’t heard you express a word of concern for a rape victim here except in terms that are quite vague and general.
This cuts to the quick knowing as I do that you are a leader of Israel’s feminist movement and champion of the rights of victims of sexual violence.
Oooo, yes so true. Before, it was my blog I was pimping by taking up this story. Now there is some pernicious unspoken “agenda” that I’m advancing like a kidnapper offering candy to a baby. Be careful everyone, I’m going to slip that agenda between the lines here & before you know it you’ll be powerless in the face of it.
Yes, the bad, bad man. Big bully. And did I not say I was a man? And a bully? And that poor Mia was a woman, and a defenseless one at that?
You stated quite clearly & unequivocally that if the accused should have his identity exposed why shouldn’t the accuser. YOU wrote that, not I. I didn’t put words in your mouth. Then when that proved a rather inconvenient statement for you, you returned & complained that what you really meant to say was that of course the accused shouldn’t have her identity revealed. Well, which is it? Do you now wish to renounce what you said originally? And doesn’t it look a bit fishy to argue something one way and then turn around and argue almost the reverse?
What I am trying to do here is precisely the OPPOSITE of “subverting” the justice system. I, and tens of thousands of Israeli activists against sexual violence are trying to get the justice system to work better for victims. Amazing that you would call this “subversion” of justice. And this is a term I find offensive as well.
I’ve gotten quite a gander at your “nuanced” position. It has so many nuances I can’t begin to make heads or tails of it. I guess the subtleties of it can be understood by you alone.
Precisely the opposite. I didn’t seek YOU out for this disagreement. You came here to begin this fight because of your own previous political disagreements with me. I only responded to the actual words you wrote on this issue which were entirely motivated by yr political disagreements with me. You’re quite the hypocrite not to recognize how this disagreement originally began regarding the Even case.
I looked and looked and couldn’t find any instance of Mia stating that she believes that a complainant’s name in a sexual assault case should have her name revealed against her will. Maybe you were confused by the following paragraph:
“However, as a believer in due process, I retain my faith in the judges and their informed decisions. You have issues with gag orders and I understand that. You don’t however seem to feel that the alleged victims name should be released even though in doing so, it might, hypothetically, lead to the revelation of information that might exonerate the accused. There’s a flaw in your expressed desire for openness for the sake of justice and one can’t help but wonder what is at the root of this logical inconsistency.”
I don’t see any inconsistencies between that paragraph and Mia’s insistence that she does not believe that a rape victim’s name should be made public against her will. I think all she’s saying is that the gag order should have been respected.
Sorry, but when you state that someone is being inconsistent because they don’t demand the exposure of the victim’s name, that implies that you believe the same thing yrself. You can’t excoriate me for not being consistent & then turn around & say: well, I’m entitled to demand that YOU support exposing the victim’s identity, but I don’t support this myself. Sorry, that doesn’t work for me. It’s hypocritical.
No, she’s also saying I should demand the exposure of the victim’s identity. I find this demand noxious & hypocritical.
Uhm. Yeah. That’s not my reading at all. Anyone else think Mia was demanding that Richard insist that the alleged victim’s name be revealed? Anyone?
Sorry, but this isn’t a game of keeping score. You have your say & someone else has theirs. If you want to pile up points for yr side go somewhere else to do it.
I frankly don’t care what you or anyone else thinks about what I said or how I interpreted something. You make yr pt. & move on. This isn’t a basketball game nor even a debate tournament.
I’ll just point out a few things from Yoav Yitzhak’s article. The same judge released the accused from house arrest after which an appeal to higher district court was made which upheld the accused release until the prosecution makes a decision regarding the case. So two judges from two courts, at least, reviewed the case and found that the accused did not pose a threat to the public.
Second, in his decision to uphold the gag order the judge states that the gag order is extended until a decision to prosecute is made, if it is made. In other other words if the state prosecutor decides to press charges, then his name will be revealed to the public. I see absolutely no harm being done to the accuser if the accused’s name is not known to the public for the few months it takes to decide if there is a case. (why do these things take so long anyway?)
Now lets look at a different scenario. What if a rape wasn’t committed and the accuser, for whatever reason, is trying to harm the accused?
My point is precisely that the accused’s identity should be available to the public BEFORE a decision to prosecute is made. If the prosecution fails to prosecute then the damage is done & the public cannot weigh in with its own view on the matter, which it has every right to do in a democracy & has happens in every democratic country in the world. If he is not prosecuted then harm has indeed been done to the accused, especially if the rape suspect has committed a crime but the prosecution decides not the go forward.
If the accused is trying to harm the accused, her testimony to the police will make this clear & they would not recommend going forward w. prosecution. Liars rarely get away w. it in such cases and are often not credible witnesses.
How can the public weigh in with its own view on the matter when only the identity of the accused is known and not the accuser? A true judgement can only be rendered when ALL the facts and evidence are examined. Only a court of law has the capability to do this and still protect the accusers identity and therefore in a functioning democracy it is the one assigned this task. Not the public. This is precisely why the identity of the accused should not be made public until a decision is made to prosecute or not. Not only in this case.
Dubi,
you need to bare in mind that in the US once a criminal case is brought to court, it is preformed in-front of a jury. so the public has the opportunity to opine.
the problem here is that Richard puts himself above law because he believes that a grave injustice is being done to the victim. and he may be right.
however Richard in my opinion should have checked some data before trashing someone’s reputation and good name in such way.
according to the police statistics from 2007 50% of all sexual sexual harassment / rape complaint filled are found to be fraudulent.
hhttp://kr8.co.il/BRPortal/br/P102.jsp?arc=130475
http://www.kdb-law.co.il/rec/56-%D7%94%D7%A0%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%94%D7%9F-%D7%9C%D7%90-%D7%A6%D7%93%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%AA
i don’t know Yoav Evan. i do know that Richard violated his rights. for no good reason.
Judi, you posted the false 50% statistic on another blog post on this subject, and Richard pointed out there that it makes no sense to amalgamate harassment claims with rape claims. ‘Sexual harassment’ could mean anything from unwanted and invasive touching to being heckled from a passing car. It’s an order of magnitude away from rape. According to research conducted by Rape Crisis, done in close collaboration with the police, false reporting rates for rape are no higher than they are for any other crime.
To add to this, I would like to point out that there is a world of difference between declaring a claim to be fraudulent and stating that there is not enough evidence to bring a charge. As a teenager, I was interviewed by police about the sexual abuse suffered by a close friend. I know for a fact that she was raped, and raped repeatedly. Had the case gone to court, I would have been a key witness for the prosecution. However, once the dossier was compiled it was decided that there was not enough evidence to prosecute. This doesn’t mean that those rapes never happened. It just means that there is no way we could have proved them.
I will be very surprised if the Israeli police did actually say that 50% of rape claims are fraudulent, as such a pronouncement could only be made by a judge. It’s far more likely and logical that they were speaking about the percentage of cases like my friend’s, the ones that never even reach the prosecution stage. However, there is no way of verifying that from the article you link to, as it doesn’t quote the police directly. That alone would be enough to make me suspect the motives and research capabilities of the author, even without the disturbingly misogynistic tone. According to Rape Crisis research, only 15% of rapes are ever reported to the police, and only 6% of those reports lead to a conviction. In a world where 40% of victims never tell anybody about their ordeal, and the conviction rate is far lower than it is for other violent crimes, it is frankly irresponsible to write articles that further undermine the credibility of rape victims, beginning with, “As a woman, I’d like to believe that all women are pure and right…” That is manipulative and deeply sexist, making it sound as though rape allegations do not deserve to be taken seriously until all women everywhere learn to be perfect in every respect.
Then yr beef is w. the Israeli legal system which by law (not gag) bars revealing the victim’s identity. Why don’t you advocate changing this law & see how far you get. It would be very popular among convicted & accused rapists I’m sure & their attorneys. Not sure who else would support it.
Funny, but most higher Israeli courts completely disagree w. you as they almost routinely dismiss such gags & view them with suspicion when appealed from a lower court when an appeal comes from a disinterested party like the media. In this case, no journalist has had the balls to do this for some odd reason which I’ve critiqued here.
RE: “Photos do not convict anyone of a crime. But clearly the man thinks highly of himself, his body, his magnetic charm, and his way with the ladies.” – R.S.
FROM “Importantitis, Hubris and the Entrepreneur”, by Tim Askew, 09/21/10:
SOURCE – http://thedigitalnirvana.com/2011/04/importantitis-hubris-and-the-entrepreneur/
You are lynchmobing the suspect, even before you heard his version, and you are assuming the judge is an idiot. You are causing grave injustice to the man, and try to hang him in the square before trial. This is populism at its worst.
That’s only true if you assume that a judge who harbors male chauvinist views of women and their sexual practices is “an idiot.” I didn’t say he was. You did. I only said he seemed to have already made up his mind about the case, which is diff. than calling him an idiot.
I’m amazed by how much fire this story is drawing.
I guess misogyny runs as deep as racism in the holy land.
Everyone step up to defend state and gender!
Excellent observation.
Both sides here inadvertently agree on one point: In Israel, an awful lot happens before the trial, indeed, before the decision whether to proecute or drop the case. The police, the state attorney and even the judge all have a say in whether or not there is a chance of conviction, and their evaluation is a kind of pre-trial, since A CASE WITH LESS THAN CERTAIN CHANCES OF CONVICTION cannot be pursued. I assume this exists to some extent in every legal system, but it is my (unprofessional) impression that the entrance-level probablity of conviction is high here.
As I have said in a previous comment, in rape cases, this is especially problematic, because it is not so much the concrete “evidence” that determinces the outcome as the whole process of reviewing, questioning, and yes, to some extent the public scrutiny the gives the picture. The judges themselves said this in the Katzav case regarding “the whole process”.
In addition, as I have mentioned in a previous comment, the need for a chance for other previously silent victims to speak up is often essential, because of the vast underreporting of rape, and because of the high factor of “credibility” as opposed to “findings” in such cases.
This is why the Katzav case was such a zig-zag melodrama. Prosecution, State Attorney, police, Supreme Court – all tried to determine before charges were placed, what the chances of conviction would be, and if charges SHOULD be placed!!! This was a trial before a trial.
Now, imagine all this taking place without public scrutiny? This would mean that the most critical part of the trial, the decision whether to even place charges, is carried out in secret.
If suspects of rape were tried even when conviction was not certain, and the court, the public and the victim had the benefit of the proceedings in order to determine whether there was a crime, the demand for a gag until charges might make some sense (There would still be considerations to the contrary). But in the present situation, where 90% is decided before a trial ever begins, without the victim having the right to appear before a judge, this is such a shoddy trial before a trial! Based on second-hand protocols, away from the public eye, in secrecy… Is this a way to determine the truth? Do rape victims have any fair chance of bringing out their truth? Is it a wonder that rape is so under-reported?
We all experienced this in the Katzav case, when the number one victim was denied a chance to tell her truth before a court, and where the whole case was almost dropped – even though in retrospect the conviction was so loud and clear. We should have learned something from this!
This is so self evident to me (& you) but there are legions of Israeli men here who don’t have a clue about why this is an important & integral part of what should be happening in this case.
“At the birthday party for one of the finest blondes…”
If this is a quote from YA, then it’s not only the photos, but the phrasing – “one of the finest blondes”?
I do not like this practice of grading “blondes” – it makes it sound like a horse-race or a dog-show, where hair color is some kind of a pedigree, or a definition of the whole person, and something to be graded and rated on… And I do not like the person who places himself on the throne of Judge of the Blonde Contest.
Yes, this is perhaps mighty little to be griping about, but unfortunately I am denied more directly relevant information him due to the gag order.
Richard,
I admire your passion for justice and your courage to be politically incorrect in pursuit of justice.
what is finished with this case ?
I just saw him reporting on TV ..
You should be ashamed of yourself Richard,
I just read his book and your accusations have caused a lot of harm to an innocent man, maybe next time before you jump on someone who is only accused of rape by a mental case you would trust the wisdom of the Israeli court about the gag order.
@Yuval You read a self-published book by an accused rapist defending his crime as consensual & you believe him implicitly & call the victim a “mental case.” I find this comment so disgusting that you will not collect $200 nor will you pass Go. You are banned. Now go back to the mysogynist cesspool from which you arose.