48 thoughts on “Hamas-Fatah to Form Unity Government, Israel Angered, U.S. Taken by Surprise – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Obviously judging by the statements made by the Mahmoud Azahar who stated no for recognizing Israel no for Negotiations
    Obama will be on Israel Sides not on yours.
    Finally the side that you are on is well known through your support of the action accompanied by the statements of Azahar.

    oops, you will claim i lie. whatever.

    1. You’ve as usual misstated what Zahar said. He said the interim government, which will rule for approximately a yr. does not have a mandate to negotiate a peace settlement. He didn’t say any of the things you stated in the terms you claimed. Of course, the eventual elected gov’t will negotiate for peace because it will have a mandate to do so or will assign a body to do so on its behalf as the PA did when Hamas won the 2006 election.

      You don’t lie, you just don’t have the intellectual capacity to understand my views or else you willfully distort them.

      1. Mr. Silverstein
        Abu Mazen stated today during an interview on channel 10 news that the intermediate government will not handle anything but gearing up for elections in the PA.
        he stated that he’s the one who will decide on the political agenda of the government and they will execute his directives / policies.
        seems to me we already seen this particular movie and the difference between Hamas and Fatah especially on the negotiation with israel subject, cause many fatah members to fly down from Gaza’s roof tops.

        This move by Fatah, actually serves Bib’i better then it serves anyone else in the middle east.
        Hamas will not change it charter (as it is a religious document) and will not gain world support.
        Bibi will.

        1. Nonsense. We’ve exhausted the Hamas Charter meme ages ago & it is irrelevant to political reality. I do so enjoy your predictions of what will happen based on nothing except your own right wing political prejudices & divorced from anything close to reality or common sense. I’m betting the Palestinians will prove you wrong and I’d say there’s a 60/40 chance there will be a Palestinian state in September.

          1. My statement is based on a minor factor – History in this case even a recent one.
            But your statement shows how little you know of Hamas.
            Hamas is controlled by the Shura Council, which is controlled by the religious committee; the identity of the religious committee is classified and is not published. They control the path the Hamas follows.
            Similar to Iran in which the real controller is the ayatollah and not the president, Hamas has it’s own version, who dictates everything.
            If you wish to know more about Hamas, and Ahmed Yasin may I suggest you’ll do some real reading ?
            Start with this:

          2. I’ve never heard of the Shura Council and it’s never been mentioned in any major media publication I’ve read. It sounds more like a hasbara version of the Protocols of the Elders of Hamas.

            I don’t accept propaganda sources here as credible. Look at the comment rules & you’ll see which sources are credible & which not. Do not, as I wrote, try scoring pts by seeing who can bring the best propaganda to smear one side or the other.

          3. depending on what you mean by ” a Palestinian state in September”, people might want to know what it is that you’re willing to bet.

            60-40 seems like an awfully optimistic and rather unlikely estimate of the chances of something real.

            perhaps you aren’t meaning something real but something more theoretical.

          4. Mr. Silverstein.
            First, i don’t understand the propaganda comment, are you saying that that the Hikin Geo-Strategic Cathedral in Haifa university is considered Propaganda ?
            did you even looked at the link ?
            ok, how about haaretz and Reuters ? is that propaganda to ?
            this is not Hasbara, you just don’t really understand the culture you are trying to analyze. typical american approach.


            בתוך כך, סוכנות הידיעות רויטרס דיווחה אתמול כי חמאס ערך באחרונה בחירות חשאיות להנהגתו ברצועה – “מועצת השורא”. על פי הדיווח, מאות מחברי חמאס בחרו את המועצה וכן את הוועד הפועל, שאמור לממש את החלטות מועצת השורא.
            בתוך הוועד הפועל מונתה אף קבוצה קטנה יותר שמשמשת ההנהגה הישירה. בין הנבחרים שמות מוכרים כמו ראש הממשלה איסמעיל הנייה, שר החוץ מחמוד א-זהאר ושר הפנים, סעיד סיאם.
            בנוסף, דווח כי כמה מהבכירים בזרוע הצבאית של חמאס, עז א-דין אל-קסאם, הצליחו להשתלב לא רק במועצת השורא אלא גם בגוף המבצע של הארגון, הוועד הפועל של חמאס ברצועת עזה.
            מקורות פלשתיניים הזכירו את שמו של אחמד אל-ג’עברי, ראש הזרוע הצבאית של הארגון, כמי שהצליח להיבחר לוועד הפועל, יחד עם כמה בכירים נוספים מהזרוע
            Meanwhile, Reuters reported yesterday that Hamas had a secret election and elected a new leadership to its a secret council in Gaza – the “Shura Council. ” According to the report, hundreds of Hamas members chose the Council and the Council should exercise the decisions of the Shura Council.

          5. First, I’d like to see the original story in Reuters. Second, you haven’t clarified what this Council does. You CLAIM it’s the top secret governing council of Hamas. But that’s ludicrous because everyone who knows anything about Hamas knows that its Politburo is in Damascus, not Gaza. Khaled Meshal & several top leaders there are the ones who make the big political decisions. I’ve never heard of a SHunra Council playing any major leadership role in such matters.

            The University of Haifa is known as extremely right wing in a number of its departments. I’ll take a look at yr link when I can.

          6. Please,
            here is the Reuters original

            Second, It’s Shura, not Shunra.

            Third, the Shura is the highest council, they decide on everything, all decisions are religion based and based on Islamic law – and that is way the charter is extremely important, as it’s set the way and the tone.

            and last – i had a good laugh reading your claim about Haifa University, can you back that assertion with anything ?
            You know about Haifa university las much as i know about Washington State University.

          7. The charter is of NO importance. We’ve been over this 30 times already before here. I’m sick & tired of this nonsense. The charter is not read, studied or acted upon by anyone in Hamas. The only people who read the charter are hasbarists like you. You won’t find a single senior Hamas official ever refer to it. The Shura is not bound by the charter at all.

            The funny thing about your claim about this top-secret organization is that it is actually a political convention at which delegates are democratically chosen to determine the movement’s strategy & positions. Yet you turn it into a secret conclave out to destroy Israel.

          8. and last thing
            the identity of the member of the religious figures within the Shura is kept secret.
            some past figures you heard about . Ahmad Yassin, Salah Shada and others.

          9. an article written by By Kifah Zaboun (asharq alawast – 14/02/2009) Titled Hamas: Who is in Charge states:

            Strategic decisions are made by the politburo which is headed by Khaled Meshaal, after consultation with the Hamas Shura Council

            same as in Iran. President doesn’t decide on anything the religious ayatollah do.
            like mother Iran, Like Hamas.

          10. Again, you’re grandstanding. You don’t seem to understand that spouting slogans is not argument. It’s point scoring. That isn’t what commenters do here. This is the 2nd time today I’ve had to say this to you. And if you try this too many more times your time here will be short.

            Khaled Meshal determines Hamas policy. I don’t care who or what he consults with, HE determines policy. Consultation means just what it says. Consultation is not dictation, it’s advice. And he’s neither an ayatollah or a Muslim cleric. He’s a political leader. Your knowledge of Iran and Hamas is abysmal.

          11. Mr. Silverstein
            the fact that you still insist on arguing over a matter you have no knowledge (by own admission) is beyond me.
            the fact that you discussed it many times on this blog is meaningless because obviously the knowledge level you demonstrated in your arguments wasn’t that impressive.
            denying the role of the Majlis-ash-Shura in dictating Hamas daily activities and political standing is beyond me.
            and where did you get the notion that there is anything democratic about the Shura ? the Shura is a body of 20 Islamic clerics, there is no democracy there. the democratic part reffed to in the article refers to selecting the members of the General Council who carry out the Majlis-ash-Shura policy.
            i am sorry you see this as grandstanding and point scoring, this is not the case at all.
            Your claim the charter has no importance isn’t being refereed to and is not being mentioned by anyone is simply not true.
            in an interview given to haaretz said Mahmoud al-Zahar that Hamas will stay faithfuls to it’s principles will not recognize the state of Israel, will not accept 1967 borders etc. etc. etc. The only document defines Hamas principles is the charter.

            this is a deaf man argument, you are presented with facts, links supporting those facts etc.
            you try to dismiss those facts, as propaganda, you try to stop any real debate from happening, almost as if you are afraid of the facts and the truth.

          12. denying the role of the Majlis-ash-Shura in dictating Hamas daily activities and political standing is beyond me.
            and where did you get the notion that there is anything democratic about the Shura ? the Shura is a body of 20 Islamic clerics, there is no democracy there. the democratic part reffed to in the article refers to selecting the members of the General Council who carry out the Majlis-ash-Shura policy.

            You are as usual wrong again. The religious Shura does not set policy for anything or anyone. As you yourself wrote, the Damascus Politburo, led by political leader Khaled Mashal CONSULTS with the shura. A consultative role does not dictate anything.

            in an interview given to haaretz said Mahmoud al-Zahar that Hamas will stay faithfuls to it’s principles

            Quote me where Zahar has referred specifically to the Charter. I dare you to do it. The Charter has absolutely no standing, power or meaning for determining Hamas policy on any contemporary issue. I dare you to prove otherwise.

          13. and last words on the subject
            in 1999 the CFR published a document titled : The Foreign Policy of Hamas
            written by Muhammad Muslih who stats the following about the role of the Shura: Hamas has a unified consultative council (majlis shura) that makes policies and oversees the work of the administrative, charitable, and military subdivisions of the movement.

            and you claimed no foreign msm outlet ever disclosed the existence of the Shura ? its all over just search.

          14. I have no idea whether your paraphrase of this article is correct & I’m certainly not prepared to concede that it is. Regardless, what you claim isn’t true as Khaled Meshal is Hamas supreme leader & not any Shura.

          15. How come Judi Cohen is capable of reading Arabic but not capable of spelling some very basic names correctly. He makes exacly the same mistakes as a former propagandist here.
            Salah Shehadeh, and not Shada. Or Shehada, the final ‘h’ is transcribing the ‘ta marbûta’ but is not obligatory.

            Al-sharq al-awsat or ashsharq al-awsat (phonetically).

            Could you, please respect if not the Arabs at least their language, min fadlika.

        2. Cohen, your links and statements dont hang together. The Reuters link you provide speaks about a election process within Hamas for its parlament (shura). You claim that this is some topsecret cabaal of religious leaders, well, how come they are up for elections?

          1. Judi Cohen is spinning, but he has no wool to spin, only hasbara:
            “Majlis al-Shûra” is the Parliament in modern Arabic (Egypt’ Algeria etc) and as you say nothing secret about Hamas’ Majlis al-Shüra:

            I wonder if these guys get an x-traday off from service after a days work at Tikun Olam 🙂

          2. You say nothing secret ?
            ok, let’s play a little game would we ?
            name the members of the Shura.
            as for the name of mr. Salah Shada i thought the name was صلاح مصطفى محمد شحادة and not shada or sheada or whatever other version. an Hebrew word translated to English can be written in many ways, same in Arabic.
            العالم باعتباره الخيار في يدك ومرة أخرى مؤخرتك

          3. Anyone who knows anything about Hamas & its leadership & who writes in any language knows that his name was Salah Shehadeh. I’ve never seen his name transcribed in Hebrew or English the way you did. His name cannot be transcribed properly into Hebrew the way you did. I doubt you can find any published spelling of his name in Hebrew that corresponds to yr error. But if you can it too is a mistake.

          4. If you know the name is Salâh Mustafâ Muhammad Shehâdeh/Shehâda, why did you then write Shada in your first comment and now again ?
            Though Arabic can be transcribed in various ways, there are some strict rules to obey: you NEVER leave out a consonant, particularly not a strong ‘H’ with a alif, in the middle of a word. I don’t know about Hebrew, and it’s none of my business. I write Hebrew words as I read them in English, and you’ll never find ‘Shada’ in English. Only you, and some former propagandists did that. You might be acquainted !

            I see you have some conspiracy theories about Majlis al-Shûra and Hamas. Well, I’m not a member of Hamas, but here some informations available for everyone. Doesn’t really look like the ‘Grand Lodge’ or some other Freemasons, does it ?


          5. Dear Dyier Yassin
            i see you compare me to other propagandist, should i be honored ?
            as for spelling, i spell arabic names as i read them in hebrew, in hebrew it’s שחדה and that can be translated to schada, shada etc. no disrespect. i guess other israelis to it to. we write names usually in Hebrew not in English.

            as for the secrecy, issue, you still didn’t answer the question who are the members of the Shura ?
            and did you notice that even in the maan translation it states that the elections were secret and the results are secret ? and they name only Mashal and few other prominent figures who were elected to the political bureau in Damascus, but the Shura covers more then politics, Religion, Security etc. I can tell you that Ahmed Jabari was elected to the security one, but I invite you and anyone else to find the other names of those elected to the different comities of the Shura.

            oh, and last thing, last i looked in the mirror was about 5 min ago, i am happy to report that i am still a women, and a nice looking one. Thank you.

          6. it’s שחדה and that can be translated to schada, shada etc. no disrespect.

            Of course it’s disrespectful & disingenuous. You & I both know Hebrew and there’s no possible way to transcribe those Hebrew ltrs. in the ways you claim. I would ask you to present any credible Israeli English language media publication which spelled it the way you have.

            i am still a women, and a nice looking one.

            If this is indeed true (& they say beauty is the eye of the beholder), then I wish your rhetorical style was as attractive as your physical one.

          7. @ Judi Cohen
            Well, my pen name is not written neither in Arabic nor in Hebrew but in English, and you’re still not capable of writing it correctly. It’s may the Israeli school system ….

          8. Der Yassin
            It was a typeo, דיר יאסין is the way you write it in hebrew, so your statement is not entirely right is it ?

            other then snarky comments, do you have an answer to the simple question i asked ? who are the member of the Shura council ? you claim it is not a secret, then it shouldn’t be a problem for you (or anyone else) to list the names.

          9. @ Judi Cohen)

            Once again: I don’t care how you write Deïr Yassin in Hebrew. This is an English website, and my pen name is transcribed in English from Arabic and not from Hebrew. I don’t write Judy Koen, do I ?
            You didn’t even bother to read the ‘maan’- link, did you ? You’ve got most of the names of the Polititburo, and a statement why you don’t get the rest:
            “The Hamas source would not name members of its Politburo from the West Bank and Gaza fearing that the Israelis might assassinate them”.
            That seems a wise decision to me !

            Another wise statement from Hamas:
            After Bibi’s “the PA has to choose between peace with Israel and peace with Hamas”, Nabil Abou Roudeina’s response that “Bibi must choose between peace and settlements”, Ismail Haniyeh said yesterday (Friday) that the PLO should not only demand that Israel choose between peace and settlement, but also withdraw its recognition of the State of Israel.
            That would be a very wise thing to do. That 17-years-old recognition has bought nothing but more settlements. And if the Egyptians made an end to the Peace Treaty too, that might get things moving..

          10. @ Deïr Yassin
            so you took your arguments from nothing secret to its secret because…..

            @ Richard, only yesterday ismail haniya gave a speach in which he stated that all the land from the jordan river to the sea is a Palestinian land, bla bla bla. (channel 10 news)
            that idea comes straight from the Hamas charter, and that is the importance of the document.
            the Hamas terrorists do not quote from that when they fire upon Israelis the same way american soldiers do not quote from the constitution when they fire on the Taliban.

          11. Haniya’s position does not “come straight from the hamas charter.” Did he quote it? Refer to it? Even implicitly? Hamas’ beliefs on any subject have nothing to do w. the charter. And again, when you paraphrase the views of people you detest you simply don’t have any crediblity here. If you wish to characterize Hamas’ positions & be believed you’ll have to quote verbatim statements along with the Hamas source. Also, authenticting the accuracy of the Arabic translation would be helpful as well since people like you tend to like to use the most damaging MEMRI-type translations you can find.

            But at any rate, Hamas isn’t negotiating peace deals w Israel, the PLO will do that. Hamas has already stated it will follow the will of the Palestinian people as expressed in a peace referendum after an agreement is reached. I have little doubt that a reasonable peace deal would be approved overwhelmingly by Palestinians & that Hamas would not stand in the way. In fact, being a movement willing to test its popularity at the ballot box, they’re aware that opposing an overwhelmingly popular peace deal would be suicide.

            Using the term “Hamas terrorists” to refer to all of Hamas is a lie, prejudicial & a violation of the comment rules. Would you like me to allow a commenter here to refer to all Israelis collectively as “the Israeli terrorists?” I don’t allow this phrasing fr. the far left nor will I allow if from you on the far right.

  2. nobody is angry and nobody is caught flatfooted as of yet.

    when and if the details of the deal are published, perhaps then there will be cause for emotional reaction, but jeepers, Richard, they’ve been under pressure to work out a deal, and attempting it, for about two years.

    they even announced a deal back in 2009 that Hamas never got around to signing.

  3. C’mon, Richard, gimme a break here. I was asking for a clarification of what you meant by a Palestinian state coming into existence in September, not looking to own your house or possess your child.

    I’m sure our children have enough to deal with and don’t need any additional craziness from their parents.

    1. If this was an attempt to be witty, leave it as I tell my dog. Not funny. Not even close. If you knew what a stalker is doing to my children online you wouldn’t even attempt to make a joke out of that.

      1. Richard, accept my sympathy and concern for your children, and remember that I didn’t bring them into the conversation. you did, for some reason.

        what I WAS asking is what you meant by a Palestinian state coming into existence in September.

        answer if you will or not.

        in any case, may your children be safe and well.

  4. Richard, you seem to think that your own ignorance is Judy’s responsibility to correct. It isn’t. The fact that you know so little about Hamas is your problem, not hers.

  5. “…These are fateful days, Mr. President. Which side are you on, tell me which side are you on.”

    He’s on your side Richard. He gave it a shot early on, but as you well know Obama picked a fight he wasn’t ready for, suffered humiliation and further complicated the loss of US prestige and influence in a region vital to US security and national interests. Current domestic politics aren’t quite ready yet for what the US will ultimately be forced to do regarding the Israeli/Palestinian question.

    Personally, I would have much preferred Obama pressing the Israelis after he had secured his second term than stirring up rabidly racist, Islamophobic Zionists in an all out effort to see him denied a second term. They never liked or trusted Barak Obama in the first place. He has to neutralize the arrows he filled their quivers with by making Netanyahu and fellow travelers smile at all opportunities. In other words, eat crow when necessary and bide his time playing a double hand with Israelis and Palestinians satisfying neither.

    I believe he will defeat the Republicans and Zionists come the next election. I’m however not sure that he can reclaim the US role over the Israeli/Palestinian question. As you and others have observed that issue has now become internationalized. And with the inevitable emergence of Palestinian unity and an Egypt more in tune with the popular beliefs and demands of its peoples, an infinitely far worse development is evolving internally and on Israel’s borders than a nuclear armed Iran and Hezbollah.

    Slowly but surely US support, the last redoubt of Israel is cracking and withering away as it had previously waned and perished for white-racist Rhodesia and apartheid S. Africa. Israelis being racist and committed to apartheid is an accident begging to happen. The day is coming, sooner or later when Israel stands alone and discovers its jingoism and hysterical rants are nothing more than bluster and empty threats as Zionist wet dreams of a greater Israel give way to Olmert’s living hell of a unified Palestinian civil rights & liberties campaign in Israel proper, WB and Gaza.

    The Zionists can’t win Richard. Their only hope for a Jewish home in Palestine is the two state solution, but the sweet heart deal Netanyahu could have struck with Mahmoud Abbas is gone forever. It will now require great pain to accomplish a life saving bargain with the Palestinians today. And every day that passes that pain will become ever greater until its not what Israelis want anymore that matters, its that Palestinians are getting stronger and smarter and will ultimately realize they can have it all, not a miserable slice.

    Its not the gun that will decide Israels fate.

  6. you say that the charter is meaningless. why don’t they annul it then? it’s pretty obvious that the existence of said charter acts as a great factor in the HASBARA campain of delegitimizing hamas. wouldn’t you agree?

    1. We’ve discussed this very question in the threads before a number of times & I hate repeating things. I want them to annul it & you want them to & every hasbarist around uses the charter as a hammer against Hamas. But neither you nor I are members or supporters of Hamas & it just may be that they have other things that are more important to do than concern themselves w. this meaningless document. I don’t make decisions for them.

        1. I don’t ban people outright w/o warning though I was sorely tempted in your case. If you make further such lame, lying attempts at wit in future you will immediately lose yr comment privileges.

          1. thanks for the warning oh, liberal, enlightened, cognative dissonant, confermation biased, one.

            ban away!

          2. Mr Silverstein
            how come you ban every Israel who dare criticizing you ?
            On this thread you criticized me because i spelled the name shada the way i hear it claiming i was being disrespectful.
            but you said Nothing to another commenter who referred to me as a he ?
            Yes it is your house and your rules, but from someone who writes so many words on how the Israeli gag orders are intended to shut people off, i expect to let people to express their standings.
            herenot wasn’t being rude.

          3. Actually, I ban people who consistently violate the comment rules whether they’re Israeli or not. And I ban individuals who are pro Israeli & pro Palestinian. But I only do so after pointing out what rule they’ve violated & warning them, often several times.

            You “heard” the name “Shehadeh” pronounced “Shada?” Now that’s a new version of what you claimed before. Before you claimed “Shada” was an entirely legitimate Hebrew spelling, which I disputed asking you to present any credible source which had every spelled his name that way. Now your story is that you “heard” the name that way. You know, we can’t be responsible for everything you hear. You clearly hear what you want to hear & disregard the rest.

            herenot wasn’t being rude.

            Actually, I’m the one who decides whether someone has violated the comment rules, not you. I’d suggest that the 2 of you go write yr own blog together & set up yr own rules & watch how many readers come to visit.

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