14 thoughts on “Shabak Charges Imam With Supporting Terror, Inciting Murder – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. During the Shah’s reign, the SAVAK, trained by Mossad, would charge, abduct and imprison people similarly. Now, SAVAMA, basically the successor of SAVAK (same people, bigger organization under Khomeinists and so on) does the same thing by throwing people in Evin without charges.

    How is Shabak any different?

    1. Only one major difference, in Israel they have an investigation, legal representation for both the pre trial custody hearings and for the actual trial, an indictment, a trial and right of appeal. Also there is the press and blogs like this that report and criticise freely.

      Just because the accused, in this case or others, happens to be a Palestinian Israeli doesn’t necessary mean he is automatically innocent as is assumed on this blog whenever someone like this is even found guilty by admission by the courts. Can’t you ever accept that some of these being investigated or accused actually committed some crime? Not all have to be peaceful “political” prisoners that are dragged off the streets for no reason other than their ethnic origin.

      1. legal representation for both the pre trial custody hearings and for the actual trial

        Leaving out a few things, aren’t we? The torture? Wiretapping of conversations bet. lawyer & client, refusal to allow client to consult w. attorney, incarceration of virtually unlimited duration. Complicates things a bit doesn’t it?

        Just because the accused, in this case or others, happens to be a Palestinian Israeli doesn’t necessary mean he is automatically innocent

        You’ve got it backwards. The Israeli system dominated by the secret police presumes guilt in security cases (whether victims are Jews or Palestinians, but esp if the latter). I don’t presume Abu Salim is innocent. But I do presume fraud on the part of the Shabak & demand that it prove its case transparently, which it never does.

        Can’t you ever accept that some of these being investigated or accused actually committed some crime?

        You know, I’m funny that way. I’d rather a guilty man go free than 1,000 innocent ones go to jail. In the Israeli system priorities are entirely diff. YOu get the conviction at all costs whatever it takes even if it means trampling over rights & individuals. That isn’t kosher. But Israeli largely accept this legal mayhem as a Faustian bargain w. the secret police because they think it buys them peace & quiet. It only buys them deep injustice & temporary peace, which is a false peace.

      2. Shmuel,

        Shabak has plenty of charges against it in the same regard – lack of due process, etc. But to say that Iran has no legal system is also propaganda mythology. There is legal representation and a right to appeal. Press and blogs, like this, criticize Iranian policy freely. I bet if Richard was a Gazan in Gaza writing this blog he would have already been snuffed.

        Shabak and Savak sound alike, too. Next thing you know, the settlers will form militias that sound like Basiji to enforce the law as they see it fit.

        1. Next thing you know, the settlers will form militias that sound like Basiji to enforce the law as they see it fit.

          They already have paramilitary security squads, but their jurisdiction is only for their own settlment. It’s possible at some future pt the IDF will privatize settlement security at which time you can look for Basij type paramilitary groups to reign.

  2. There’s a Jewish proverb saying “Doing what Zimri did, and asking for Phineas’s reward”. It means – You do something bad, and you’re asking for a reward. There’s also another proverb saying “Dina Demlahuta Dina” which means “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”

    Muslims must separate their Mosques from political activities if they want to gain the protection afforded to places of religion. This is what the Jews always did – Synagogues were for worship (and usually – for sharing the woes and troubles of living in the Galout) but always “Dina Demlahuta Dina” – Synagogues were never used to incite revolt.

    Religion should be separates from politics and national struggle; especially it should be distanced from terrorism.

    If the Muslims do as Zimiri did (i.e. use their Mosques as places for recruiting terrorist, for inflaming the masses, for storing explosives) they can’t ask for a reward such as Phineas’s.

    1. Muslims must separate their Mosques from political activities if they want to gain the protection afforded to places of religion.

      But you’re observing 2 standards aren’t you, one for Jews (settlers in this particular case) & another for Muslims. Extremist hotbed yeshivas, synaoguges & settlements get a pass while egregiously violating yr prohibition on political incitement, but Muslims get hammered for doing precisely the same thing. I know what that’s called where I come from: hypocrisy.

      Synagogues were never used to incite revolt.

      You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. What about the synagogues used to store Lehi munitions? And the ones where Kahane’s grandson congregates planning their next outrages on W. Bank mosques in places like Tapuach?

      Religion should be separates from politics and national struggle

      Good luck on that. When Ovadia Yosef takes yr advice then we can talk as you’ll sound a bit more credible.

      they can’t ask for a reward such as Phineas’s.

      Why does Yosef get his reward in the form of the chief rabbinate??

      1. Excuse me, is this a blame competition? How is the Lehi’s alleged behavior sixty years ago relevant to what I’m saying? Are you saying that Muslims today in Israel, Gaza, Germany, London, Scandinavia and the States should use the Mosques as safe houses for terrorist activities? Or perhaps you opinion is that in Israel and Gaze it’s allowed but elsewhere it’s not? Or maybe you claim that indeed they shouldn’t use Mosques for terrorist and subversive purposes but I, as an Israeli, is not allowed to make this claim?

        Re Israelis planning attacks on Mosques –

        1. Mosques are being used today for the purposes I’ve already mentioned

        2. Palestinians physically attack our holly places: Throwing stones on people praying at the West Wall, preventing access to holly places in Hebron and Beit Lehem, inciting terror preventing Israelis from visiting heritage monuments such as Herod’s tomb. Remember that they’re dwelling on the birthplace of OUR heritage.

        3. Palestinians attack our holly places politically (like that ridiculous statement by UNESCO claiming that the Tomb of Rachel is a mosque, a statement that totally disqualifies this organization).

        4. Palestinians cause much suffering to Israelis living in the Judea and Samaria, which makes “hitting back where it hurts” kind of logical.

        Regardless of the above I’m totally against partisan attacks on Mosques (or any “taking the law into one’s hands”, for that matter). That’s what a state is for. We built Israel so that the Israeli Jews living here will have the same level of state protection as they do in other advanced Western Democracies and one should leave to the state what’s the responsibility of the state.

        And exactly for this reason – to prevent Jewish extermist from wrong-doings – we have the “Jewish Division” in the Shabak.

        1. You were the one who claimed that Muslims use mosques for terror. I merely pointed out that Jews do the same. Where do you think Meir Kahane learned his ideology? In a yeshiva of course. Jewish sacred spaces are used in precisely the same ways as mosques. They educate, but often indoctrinate. And they are equally political.

          Palestinians physically attack our holly places

          Good Lord, do they? I’m sure they have absolutely no reason to do so & such attacks are unprovoked. I seem to recall a visit by Ariel Sharon during which he stuck his tongue out at worshippers at the Dome of the Rock. Or was I imagining this?

          they’re dwelling on the birthplace of OUR heritage.

          Gosh darn it, I forgot about that. I was under the mistaken impression that it was Israel throwing Palestinians out of their homes in East Jerusalem and elsewhere.

          that ridiculous statement by UNESCO claiming that the Tomb of Rachel is a mosque

          God yes, that was so ridiculous for UNESCO to acknowledge that the Tomb is also a mosque. How foolish of them to try to describe the actual reality of the site. BTW, you don’t seem to have things right. UNESCO didn’t call it a mosque, it said that it was both a mosque and a tomb.

          Palestinians cause much suffering to Israelis living in the Judea and Samaria

          Damn, you’re right. And all for no reason. No provocation.

          I’m totally against partisan attacks on Mosques (or any “taking the law into one’s hands”, for that matter). That’s what a state is for.

          Yes, instead of having Meir Kahane’s grandson burn down mosques and fail miserably, we should recruit the ILA & Border Police to do the job properly. That’s what a state is for isn’t it? A little state sponsored anti Muslim pogrom?

          We built Israel so that the Israeli Jews living here will have the same level of state protection as they do in other advanced Western Democracies

          Didn’t work out quite so well though, did it? Jews are much more secure and protected by western states than are Israel’s Jewish citizens. Ever wonder why it’s more dangerous to be a Jew in Israel than anywhere else in the world?

          to prevent Jewish extermist from wrong-doings – we have the “Jewish Division” in the Shabak.

          And they did a bang up job on the Chaim Pearlman case, didn’t they? Murdered how many Palestinians and walks out of prison without any charges being filed? Look how they got Jack Teitel as well. Murdered God knows how many Palestinians and Israeli gays & then gets declared cuckoo so he won’t have to serve time alongside a ‘real terrorist’ like Marwan Barghouti. Yes, the Jewish Division of Shabak is, if it’s possible, even more competent than the rest of that bunch that persecutes Palestinians.

          1. I seem to recall a visit by Ariel Sharon during which he stuck his tongue out at worshippers at the Dome of the Rock.

            Never heard of it, and would be MOST interested if you could provide a (reliable source, non-Palestinain/ Photoshopped) photo.

          2. One could add that Sharon’s visit to the Al-Aqsa Mosque took place just ten days after the eighteenth anniversary of Sabra and Shatila. That significance did not go unnoticed among Palestinians although Israeli media did its best to disregard it. I seem to recall Sharon hinting that the timing was not accidental although in official interviews he denied it with a smile and a wink.

  3. And now they have arrested another Imam and trashed his place up:
    http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3982444,00.html

    This is really going to blow up in our faces. First the Supreme Court upholding the decision by a right wing judge to allow settlers to settle in the middle of Ajamy because it was a “done deal”, and now this. As I also live smack in the middle of Ajamy I’ll have a firsthand view on how it develops.

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