12 thoughts on “Obama: Being Pro-Israel Doesn’t Mean Being Pro-Likud – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. I think you are being naive if you don’t think people, particularly Israelis, are not going to view this as direct interference in internal Israeli policy. I believe you are going to see a strong reaction to this. Most Israelis, as you yourself have admitted, do not view your ideas for what Israeli policy should be as representing their viewpoints, and if Obama is adopting them, as he is indeed adopting your “progressive” phraeseology, then he should not be surprised if there is a lot of anger and mobilization against his campaign. Rosner is no “right-winger” and if someone like him is concerned, then that shows something.

    I am becoming more convinced daily that Obama will not be able to win against McCain. His wife’s comment (and, yes, what his wife says can not be excluded from the campaign) that only now she is “proud of being an American” shows a lot of arrogance, that somehow the American people are morally bound to elect Obama as President. I see how Hillary also criticized him for apparently saying that he was “unconditional engagement” with countries like Syria and Iran. This just shows that he is going to carry out a Jimmy Carter-like policy of appeasement of hostile regimes. Again, that may be what you want, but I don’t believe the American people want a reply of Carter’s disastrous foreign policy (and I am NOT referring to his involvement in the Sadat-Begin talks which he initially opposed, according to a new biography of Begin), I am referring to his general foreign policy . (Americans look at things beyond the Israeli/Arab conflict).

  2. As a counter point, please note that AIPAC is actively interfering in American politics and elections, including the presidential election now, and has been for decades.

    However, this pro-Israel lobby heavy involvement in American INTERNAL politics is par for the course and acceptable to Americans, chiefly because most Americans do not know about it and AIPAC and the lobby….

    Nothing wrong with a foreign government interfering in a nation’s elections, lobbying to pass laws that will benefit the foreign nation, change a foreign policy….

  3. Speaking has a member of aipac I’d like to point out something to American Goy ( a term which nobody that I know uses btw ) AIPAC is made up of American citizens. And believe me nobody takes direction from Israel. If you think that American Jews have no right to participate in American elections say so. But don’t put out outright lies.

  4. Did you see the debate last night on MSNBC? You can watch it in full or by segment on NYTimes’s website. i was incredibly uncomfortable with Tim Russert lumping all American Jews together with Israel supporters (it was insinuated that American-Jews stand by Israel 100% and believe it is right all of the time… ie. right-wing zionist mentality). The way the question and discussion went made it seem like American-Jews would drop Obama in a second if he showed any wavering on being Pro-Israel… it was really awful… and dangerous in my humble opinion. when are American-Jews going to be seen for the politically diverse group that they are (some Jews couldn’t care less about Israel *gasp!*)… oh, and that they don’t control American politics!!!!

  5. Speaking as a Jewish-American with a great interest in politics – I really lilke what Obama said. I agree with Bill to some degree – AIPAC has every right to lobby and strong arm politics as they wish. It’s not interference – it’s the American political system. However, I put them on par with the NRA. They are bullies and a great deal of time their blind pursual of their agenda makes them miss the forest for the trees and work against what I ultimately believe to be their own interest.

    Obama clearly understands this – as do progressives like Richard and myself do believe that the end to a safe secure Israel is through negotiations and peace. The neo-con idea of eternal war – particularly with Iran will only add to more bloodshed, and insecurity.

    I would expect that many Israeli’s understanding of the nuances of American politics, and AIPAC’s role in it have as deep un understanding of my own understanding of the nuances of Israeli politics (ie I don’t feel that I do have a deep understanding). It doesn’t surprise me at all that they would misunderstand Obama’s comments.

    But Obama has worded exactly what I feel. Too many American Jews are EXTREMELY ignorant of the most basic elements of Israeli politics and easily buy into the pro-Likud=pro-Israel arguement. I’m sick of what the neo-cons have done to US foreign policy the last 8 years – and the only hope for all of us is to find someone with the guts to un-do it. I think Obama is the most likely candidate for that. Clearly McCain is the opposite (and Clinton probably somewhere between the two…)

  6. Seeing as how two of AIPAC’s high ranking members will soon be tried for espionage, I think American Goy may have some legitimate concerns about this treasonous organization and its treasonous membership. There is no doubt that money and particularly Zionist money has become too important in our political process. Especially without any real srutiny from our Zionist/Corporate controlled media. This Lobby is why there was no meaningful investigation of the Mossad spies that followed the hijackers around the United States in the year before 9/11. 9/11 of course made the Iraq war for Israel all possible. Had Iraq gone alittle better I’m sure we would already be at war for Israel in Iran. Did you see all those yapping Zionists talking heads on cable news after the NIE report was released. Those were all Zionist members of AIPAC also. I sure of it.

  7. Re: ethnic lobbies in USA.
    I have spoken to Mr. Silverstein re: my views of ethnic lobbies lobbying for the benefit of a foreign government.
    Let me just say that we have agreed to disagree 🙂

    And by ethnic lobbies, I do not mean just AIPAC – there is the very powerful Cuban Exiles lobby which has been exerting very effective pressure on US politics about their single issue interest – Cuba economic blockade.

    While it is true that it is legal, and Mr. Silverstein and Mr. Scott Ritter believe in the freedom of speech taken to the extreme of lobbying on behalf of a foreign government, I do not.

    My personal view.

    Re: AG
    AmericanGoy is my calling card – *I* call myself that.
    Feel free to google me.

    Cheers everybody!

  8. two of AIPAC’s high ranking members

    They were staff members and not the highest ranking though not the lowest either.

    our Zionist/Corporate controlled media.

    Oh God…must we go there? This borders on hysteria.

    the Mossad spies that followed the hijackers around the United States in the year before 9/11. 9/11 of course made the Iraq war for Israel all possible.

    How dreary. Are you channeling Ward Churchill?

  9. I believe you are going to see a strong reaction to this

    Indeed there will be…fr. you, Rosner & the Likud. That’s it. No one else in Israel will give a crap, nor should they.

    Most Israelis, as you yourself have admitted, do not view your ideas for what Israeli policy should be as representing their viewpoints

    That’s preposterous & I’ve said just the opposite. The majority of my views are accepted by the majority of Israelis.

    if Obama is adopting them

    I assure you Obama is not “adopting my views.” His views are his own & influenced by his own view of the conflict. As president, he will implement a policy close to Bill Clinton’s with some nuances perhaps. This will annoy you no end no doubt. But you are a supporter of the settler movement & yr views are by no means representative of the avg. Israeli. Obama’s policies will be acceptable to the majority of Israelis.

    I am becoming more convinced daily that Obama will not be able to win against McCain.

    Being the respected political observer you are I accord you utmost deference & whatever you predict will undoubtedly happen. From yr mouth to God’s ears, as it were (!).

    Hillary also criticized him for apparently saying that he was [sic] “unconditional engagement” with countries like Syria and Iran.

    As usual, you mangle reality. What Obama said was that he was in favor of talks with Iran & Syria “without preconditions.” He did not say he was in favor of “unconditional engagement” & I don’t even know what this means.

    a Jimmy Carter-like policy of appeasement of hostile regimes.

    Aw c’mon. You’re full of hot air. His policy will be similar to Clinton’s as I already wrote. Except for a few disastrous mistakes like Rwanda & not pursuing Bin Laden muscularly, Clinton’s foreign policy was first-rate; as will be Obama’s if he is elected.

  10. believe me nobody takes direction from Israel.

    AIPAC certainly doesn’t take direction fr. the Israeli gov’t. But it is profoundly influenced by certain sectors of the Israeli political scene–the far-right nationalists & Likud which are farther to the right than the Israeli gov’t–at least the current one. If Netanyahu wins the next election then AIPAC WILL be taking direction fr. Israel; or at least doing Netanyahu’s bidding.

  11. Richard,

    I heard a poll reported on Israel radio (the “Hakol Diburim” show) yesterday where they asked Israelis “who would you rather have as President-Hillary or Obama?”. (I imagine the polling was done before Obama’s remarks about the Likud). The results were
    Hillary 62%
    Obama 22%

    So apparently Israelis ARE concerned about Obama.

  12. I don’t trust polls unless I know who did them; what the questions were, etc. All I can say is that I’m glad Americans are voting for U.S. president rather than Israelis. As far as I’m concerned Israelis haven’t voted right since they elected Yitzhak Rabin.

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