10 thoughts on “Saudis Shocked, I Say SHOCKED at Houthi Cruise Missile Attack – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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    1. @ Eunice Kearnes: that’s a lie. There are CLAIMS it was an Iranian missile by the U.S. and its allies. There is no proof whatsoever that this is what happened. There is circumstantial evidence. This may be what happened. But until incontrovertible proof is offered, this is but one among several theories.

  1. Yoni
    Alawites are a break off from Shia i.e. they drink wine and have diff texts than the Twelvers. They broke off from the name ‘Nusạyriyya” to ʿAlawiyy. Nusạyriyya was originally Ismai’li and they have a belief in some sort of ‘triad’ in the Godhead and were loners and not greatly accepted by the major trend Shia, the Twelvers.
    In Yemen almost half are Zaidiyyah who broke off and do not believe in the infallibility of the Imans, a staple by the Twelvers
    It may just break down to ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
    Maybe a little like Lebanon where the Islamic majority is Sunni but the Shia are in power.
    In any event since the death of Mohamed they have called one another heretics and spilled a lot of blood along the way aside from destroying holy sites like Karbala, Basra and the like.
    It seems in the end Iran would like to have regional hegemony which would include being the guardians of ‘Maccah’ which obviously worries the Saudis.

    1. @ natasha: I find everything about this comment demeaning and offensive toward Islam in general and Shia Islam in particular. I put you on notice that your next comment rule violation will lead to moderation.

      the Shia are in power.

      No, the Shia are not “in power” in Lebanon. Hezbollah is part of the government. But it does not control the government. There is a political power sharing agreement that has existed for decades and it shares power with other religious groupings in the country.

      they have called one another heretics and spilled a lot of blood along the way aside from destroying holy sites like Karbala, Basra and the like.

      I don’t know who “they” is. If you mean Shia, most definitely not. The bombings of mosques in Karbala was an act of terror by Sunni Iraqi militants.

      But regarding Muslims engaging in sectarian violence…that never happened among Jews in our history did it?? Except for the mass murder of Benjaminites portrayed in the Bible. And the assassinations by Sicarii of Temple priests and other Jewish notables they despised. And the declaration by Jacob Frank and Shabbtai Tzvi that they were the messiah. Not to mention Orthodox Jewish thugs leaving knives as threats outside Reform synagogues in Israel. Nope, no Jewish sectarianism whatsoever.

      It seems in the end Iran would like to have regional hegemony

      “Seems???” Seems to whom? To anyone other than you and the Iranophobes prowling the internet looking for reasons to go to war??

      Major comment rule: you offer your own personal opinion about something; you offer credible proof that your claim is true. If you offer unfounded claims which are insulting toward ethnic or religious groups, I will moderate you.

  2. “I find everything about this comment demeaning and offensive toward Islam in general and Shia Islam”

    Actually you misinterpretated me to an extreme. Personally I am preferential to Shia over Sunni and have spent quite a few years studying their philosophical and metaphysical doctrines. I don’t think my observation about hegemony and al-Maccah is anything but obvious and given what is going on in the world the friction between the two divisions has in modern times become more ‘global’ because of the media available.

    “the Shia are in power.”
    Before the 2006 war they were a separate entity and not officially part of the government which limited Israel’s possible general attacks on the Lebanon. Now since they are officially part of the government if they choose to go to war they are representing Lebanon as a whole.

    “they have called one another heretics and spilled a lot of blood along the way aside from destroying holy sites like Karbala, Basra and the like.”

    I obviously meant it was the Sunni doing the specific destruction I mentioned.

    “But regarding Muslims engaging in sectarian violence…that never happened among Jews in our history did it?? “etc.

    Of course I am aware of that but not a the level of Sunni/Shia. 20-30 years ago in Williamsburg competing sects in Satmar ran over and killed a child of the opposing group. In the 1870’s some Chasidic Jew one killed a person on the way to Meron whom he believed to be the Shinover rebbe of Sanz-these things exist and always have existed. But an interesting point is that in the Tanach all these things were recorded and not deleted something you don’t find in the Quran and Hadith e.g. the Moslems consider Lot to be a saint whereas Jews don’t and to express this opinion is ‘kafir’; vide the interesting story in ספר גן השכלים edited by R. Yosef Kapach, one of the greatest Yemenite scholars of the 20th century.

    “It seems in the end Iran would like to have regional hegemony”

    So let me re-phrase it. Looking at the state of affairs between Sunni-Saudi and Iran one could justifiably reach the conclusion that Iran has an agenda for regional hegemony even if it has not been officially ‘chartered’ and published.

    In as much as I have almost quotidian contact with Arabs whenever I mention Shia they always say ‘kufur’.Maybe it does not mean anything because the average Muslim doesn’t usually continue his religious education past 12-13 yrs. old as they usually go to work.
    In addition to that there is not one Shia community in Israel today. About 50yrs ago there was one village on the Lebanese border that had good relations with Israel but I assume they either disbanded or joined a bigger community.

    You can call me what you like but in truth I am much more an Islamophile than an Islamophobe.

    What I said in my last post about the Alawites, they are considered kufur. They are only %11 of the Syrian population and since 2011, the time of the “Arab Spring”, which seems never happened, Assad killed over 500,000 of his fellow Arabs and probably wounded close to 1 million aside from destroying a number of very ancient sites just to remain in power. The Assad family is hardly democratic as there is basically only one candidate if and when they have elections.

    Seeing that your are a scholar all these doctrinal things can be read in depth in Marshall Hodgson’s 3vol “Venture of Islam and his ‘Secret order of the Assassins ” and to trace back all the complex divisions of the Shia/Isma’lis Farhad Daftary’s “The Isma’lis” {all 800 pages of it} will dispel the misconceptions concerning the Alawites et al.
    سلام

    1. @ natasha:

      you misinterpretated me to an extreme.

      No, I pinned you right on the money.

      I don’t think my observation about hegemony and al-Maccah is anything but obvious

      “Obvious” to you. But not to anyone else except Iranophobes and pro-Israel apologists.

      Personally I am preferential to Shia over Sunni

      Gimme a break. You’re an Israeli Jew pretending to be an expert on Islam. What a sham!

      Before the 2006 war they were a separate entity and not officially part of the government which limited Israel’s possible general attacks on the Lebanon. Now since they are officially part of the government if they choose to go to war they are representing Lebanon as a whole.

      First, you falsely claim that Hezbollah and Lebanese Shia control the Lebanese government. Then you drop that claim, but add one that if there was a war between Israel and Hezbollah it would be a war against (and by) the State itself. A lie. Each time Israel invades Lebanon it fights Hezbollah and it alone. It never fights the Lebanese army and the entire Lebanese state and nation never participate.

      20-30 years ago in Williamsburg competing sects in Satmar ran over and killed a child of the opposing group.

      I don’t know what you’re talking about. I lived in and grew up in NY. What you are probably referring to was a car accident in which a procession which included one of the grand rebbes struck and killed a Black child. This caused riots by the Black community and great hostility with the Hasidic sects in the neigbhorhood.

      in the Tanach all these things were recorded and not deleted something you don’t find in the Quran and Hadith

      The Quran doesn’t discuss religious/political dissension within the pre-Muslim and Muslim world? Are you daft? Not to mention that the sectarian splits occurred after the Quran was written. So of course they’re not recorded there.

      one could justifiably reach the conclusion that Iran has an agenda for regional hegemony even if it has not been officially ‘chartered’ and published.

      No, one couldn’t. Only you could and the other Iranophobes you frequent.

      the average Muslim doesn’t usually continue his religious education past 12-13 yrs. old

      Where did you learn this? How the hell does an Israeli Jew like you blathering on about Islam claim to know what the average Muslim does or doesn’t do. Spare us the pontificating. It’s ignorant and offensive.

      I am much more an Islamophile than an Islamophobe.

      My ass.

      Assad killed over 500,000 of his fellow Arabs and probably wounded close to 1 million aside from destroying a number of very ancient sites just to remain in power.

      Utter nonsense. While Assad is certainly a butcher, there are many butchers to blame. YOu conveniently omit ISIS and al Nusra which killed at least as many Syrians as Assad. As for the ancient sites: again, the Sunni Islamist fighters destroyed at least as many of them as Assad.

      You are done in this thread. Do not publish again here. I have moderated you because everything about you is suspicious. I don’t trust you. I don’t know who you are. You certainly aren’t most of the things you claim to be. If you do publish in future, I will approve comments I don’t find offensive or violating the comment rules.

  3. P Spot
    Yes, there were. At the time of the
    Fatamids and after. There were probably many but the Ottomans were Sunni so one would have to do the research until its total dwindling to none at the present time.
    But it seems more like legend that Ali died in Karbala and they took his head to Ashkelon.
    There is something slightly similar in Judaism that Esau, brother of Jacob, head is buried in the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron at the feet of Jacob[if I remember correctly}

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