21 thoughts on “Israel and Iran: Where are We Going? – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. “In short, there is no hope whatsoever that Israel can end Iran’s presence in Syria.”

    Israel may not be able to herself, but tight economic sanctions on Iran may do the trick.
    Economic sanctions brought Iran to negotiate its nuclear program, economic sanctions will cause her to rethink her military presence in far away Syria.

    BTW, Israel has not demanded Iran leave Syria, Israel has only made the modest demands that Iran stay away from Israel’s border and stop arming Hezbollah with sophisticated offensive weapons.

    1. @ Elena:

      tight economic sanctions on Iran may do the trick.

      Yes, and the moon may be made of green cheese. But it’s very likely not. Nor will sanctions achieve anything. Iranians will not blame their leaders for their misery. They will put blame squarely where it belongs. On the shoulders of people like you & Trump.

      Economic sanctions brought Iran to negotiate its nuclear program

      Spoken like a true neocon. Sanctions did nothing to bring Iran to the table. Nothing.

      You know nothing about Iran. You don’t understand the country, the people, the policies. Why do you spout endlessly and ignorantly on a subject you know nothing about??

      Israel has only made the modest demands that Iran stay away from Israel’s border

      And the Palestinian people have only made the modest demand for their sovereignty and return of their lands. But somehow it doesn’t achieve the desired effect. And Iran has only made the modest demand that Israel adhere to international law and give Palestine its freedom. Somehow Israel doesn’t see those demands as modest. Nor does Iran see Israel’s demands as modest.

    2. How about Israel leaving Syria, i.e. the Golan Heights, which it occupies contrary to International Law.

  2. ‘Iranians will not blame their leaders for their misery.”

    Iranians took to the streets earlier this year protesting their government. Thousands were arrested.

    Iran’s economic problems are many, in spite of the fact that she is an oil exporter. Iran’s short-sighted economic policies, like pegging the Ryal to the Euro, and not the Dollar, are causing her economy to falter.

    The ‘Iran nuclear deal’ freed up billions and billions in cash already, but the average Iranian doesn’t see any of it. That’s why they protest, and that’s why Iran is beset by labor strikes.

    Khameni’s IRGC (Praetorian Guard), hordes Dollars and siphons cash, which undermines the policies of the ‘reformers’.

    Blaiming Israel and Trump and me for Iran’s problems is not an answer.

    1. @Elena: That’s rich. Now you’re an Iran expert AND an international economist. Congratulations on those advanced degrees. Where did you earn them? Trump University??

      First, Iranians protested about matters having little to do with sanctions. And those protests were initially ginned up by hardliners seeking to smear Rouhani. Curious how you left out that context.

      Iran’s economic woes have everything to do with extrtnal external factors. Of course there is internal dysfunction created by hardliners themselves and corruption. But that has nothing to do with Rouhani and the people don’t blame him for that.

      You don’t have a clue why Iranians protest so don’t even go there. Iran hasn’t seen 10% of the amount it was supposed to see relieved by removing sanctions. Not to mention that much of this is actually Iranian assets which were frozen by the U.S. Their own money!

      The IRG no more hoard cash than the Israeli defsense ministry does. And they horde far more than the Iranian military does.

      I do blame you, Israel and Trump for your hatred of Iran, deservedly so.

  3. Has Israel produced any proof that Iran fired any missiles? Given what is happening what could Iran possibly have to gain? And yet potentially much to lose.
    A story produced by Israel makes sense.

  4. ‘…But now Trump has let loose the Furies and anything can happen. We saw that, only an hour after Trump rejected the nuclear deal, when Iran launched 20 surface-to-surface missiles from Syrian bases targeting Israeli military bases…’

    Oh dear. This just goes to show how effective propaganda can be — it worked on you.

    ACTUALLY, it was Israel that launched a raid — killing nine Iranians — immediately after the announcement.

    That was obviously intended to provoke the barrage which you were loudly told about — and which has been successfully presented as if it wer an unprovoked attack — with the still larger Israeli response defined as ”retaliation.’

  5. Aside from all the other aspects of it all, Israel’s Iran games have pushed Murderin’ Fridays right off the front page.

    Yep. The weekly event is happening as scheduled. Israel’s still shooting down unarmed demonstrators that aren’t even in Israel in the first place. So far (and the dead always go up, thanks to those dum-dum bullets), the score is one dead, seven hundred wounded.

    I doubt if we make those special bullets (or at any rate, I doubt if we would admit making them). Israel should bear in mind that if she runs low, she can’t ask us for an emergency airlift of them or anything. It won’t be like ‘cluster bombs for children’ in Lebanon ’06. No free refills.

  6. ‘…In short, there is no hope whatsoever that Israel can end Iran’s presence in Syria. The former is there to stay. The question is whether the two states can develop a modus vivendi that tacitly accepts the presence and interest of the other. Bibi Netanyahu appears unwilling to do so…’

    I’m unconvinced Israel’s aggression towards Iran is inspired by Iran’s presence in Syria — or indeed by any rational consideration. Israel was conducting assassinations, sponsoring terrorist bombings, and so on in Iran long before the Syria Civil War broke out — and I imagine Israel’s aggression will continue long after the Syrian Civil War ends, too.

    It’s my belief that Israel needs an enemy at the gates. Absent such a threat, she simply lacks the glue necessary for an authentic national identity. Even aside from the gentiles, the various Jewish groups in Israel share remarkably little. They won’t even go to the same schools. There has to be an external foe for ‘Israel’ to define herself against. This can be seen to have driven Israeli behavior for at least the last fifteen years — and perhaps the last seventy.

    Jordan and Egypt have been suborned. Syria’s been reduced to blood-soaked anarchy. Lebanon is able to keep Israel at bay thanks to the Hezbollah porcupine. Iraq’s still evolving from Israel’s 2003 attempt at a remodel.

    Israel needs an enemy she can wage war against. Iran!

    It doesn’t really matter what Iran does. Pending the establishment of a friendly authoritarian regime, or alternatively, Iran’s descent into Syria-like anarchy, Israel is going to pursue war with her. Ideally, it’ll be war involving the US.

    That would be best.

  7. You really can see how Israel has cultivated a succession of enemies. Perhaps unconsciously, but she has cultivated them.

    In the beginning, Egypt was the great Satan. Israel kept that fire alive with first 1956 and then 1967. Finally — and Israel was conspicuously reluctant about it — this was quenched with Camp David.

    Within four years of Camp David, Israel was engaged in a full-blown invasion of Lebanon — an invasion undertaken on spectacularly specious grounds. A group opposed to the PLO had attempted to assassinate an Israeli ambassador. So…Israel had to destroy the PLO. At any rate, she had to destroy sumpin’.

    That all kinda died down into a nasty hangover in the nineties. Iraq! Remember those letters to Clinton? The overwhelming need for an invasion of Iraq? People recall coming into the White House the morning after 9/11 and hearing the Neo-Cons already promoting an invasion of…Iraq. Why?

    Israel’s latest project, of course. That at least notionally was settled by 2003. Of course, like most of Israel’s exercises in total military supremacy, she wound up worse than she was before — but hey. None of this is rational.

    That brings us to Iran…and if history repeats itself, Israel won’t let go until Iran has been reduced to either anarchy or some form of American-sponsored dictatorship.

    Anything at all can happen in Syria. This will continue.

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  9. It’s also possible Israel may find out its eyes were bigger than its stomach

    ‘Israel looks to Palestinian Authority to Prevent Total Anarchy on Nakba Day.’

    All that and Iran too. You know when you’re in the Chinese restaurant and you order one too many courses? Poor Israel…

    1. Shouldn’t it be “It’s also possible Israel may find out her eyes were bigger than her stomach”?

      1. You seem to have a need for consistency. Just remember: the road to hell is paved by little hobgoblins.

  10. ‘(CNN)Almost two-thirds of Americans — 63% — believe that the US should not withdraw from the agreement made with Iran to prevent the country from developing nuclear weapons. Only 29% believe the US should withdraw, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.’

    Considering the extent and intensity of the propaganda, that’s an amazing figure. That we went ahead and withdrew anyway is also testimony to the power of the Israel lobby.

    1. DonaldTrump has been boasting about how good the economy is and about the reduced unemployment. I actually believe that real unemployment is much higher than what the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics reports. With the rise in gas and oil prices as a result of Trumps pullout from the Iran Nuclear Deal and any US supported Israeli invasion of Iran or a direct invasion by the US will be very harmful to our economy. Trump’s doing this at the behest of oil corporations, the military-industrial complex and Israel may very well promote anti-semitism. The same if Netanyahu invades Iran himself with the support of the US. It is so very important that there be a massive movement to stop Trump from waging yet another war, as this will be so disastrous for our country! We must not allow for the destruction that will take place and for young Americans to yet again be killed and maimed for the benefit of the oil corporations, the military-industrial complex and for Israel. It is utterly disgusting that our country allows Israel to decide what our policies are. We also must not allow Trump and big oil, the military-industrial complex and Israel to undermine our economy.

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