13 thoughts on “The Delusions of Washington-Riyadh Ruling Elite and the Journalists Who Feed Them – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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    1. @ Zionauts: I’ve given you many warnings and you’ve ignored them all. This is off-topic. The next time you violate the comment rules in any way you may be banned. I’m damn tired to having to make these warnings & have better things to do with my time.

      Just by the by, the Saudis have only themselves to blame. When you become the aggressors and destroy another country the inhabitants tend not to take it too well and seek revenge. Especially when you are of one Muslim sect and you’re murdering women & children of another sect you hate.

      Similar circumstances in Israel.

      Everyone, I have a feeling Zionauts is not long for this world. So wish him well while he’s still around. His flight is about to land at Ben Gurion.

      1. I am on point, as usual. A Israeli-Palestinian peace deal is not a Saudi priority right now because the Saudis are surrounded by Iran and her proxy armies, and Iranian and Hezbollah missiles are being continually fired at Saudi Arabia by Iranian backed Houti rebels in Yemen.

        Pushing Iran out of the Arab world is the number one Saudi priority. If the Saudis thought that Jerusalem was the key to stopping Iran from encroaching into the Arab heartland, than the Saudis would be begging the parties come to the peace table, but, the Saudis know better.

        And why on earth would the Palestinian leadership make a peace deal now when they don’t even know who will prevail in this Saudi-Iranian face-off. The juggernaut is gaining speed, not slowing down.
        Right now, the smart money is on Iran.

        1. @ Zionauts:

          I am on point, as usual.

          You’re an annoying chutzpan, as usual. Nor are you “on point.” Ever.

          the Saudis are surrounded by Iran and her proxy armies

          Really? Surrounded? How do you figure? A U.S. Navy fleet in ally Bahrain. U.S. ships & jets patrolling the Persian Gulf to encircle Iran. Friendly Gulf states next door and fellow Sunni states throughout the region. Where are they surrounded? Oh, you mean the starving Houthi army in the battered state of Yemen? And you mean the few Shiites activists in Bahrain who oppose the Sunni minority king imposed on them by the House of Saud? And you call these a “proxy army?” Really? More like a militia, if that. Get real. Saudi Arabia is no more surrounded by armies than Seattle is surrounded by rivers of fire.

          Iranian and Hezbollah missiles are being continually fired at Saudi Arabia

          You are very good at regurgitating hasbara. Usually hasbara buttressed by little or no facts. There has been an accusation supported with no evidence that SOME Hezbollah engineers have helped with the firing of the missiles. And that makes them “Hezbollah missiles?” As for Iranian? Possible, but again not fully proven. And claimed is not the same as proven. But what’s missing is the outrageous war crime by the Saudis against Yemen which precipitated these missile attacks. Curious why you neglected the precipitating act?

          Pushing Iran out of the Arab world is the number one Saudi priority.

          That’d be a nice trick if they could do it. But they can’t & won’t. And that another reason the Saudi policy, such as it is, is doomed to abject failure. Iran has as much a right to pursue its interests in the region as Saudi does. If the Saudis constrain themselves the Iranians would do the same. IF they don’t, the Iranians won’t. Just that simple.

  1. “if the Saudis wish to betray the Palestinians and abandon their role as guardians of the region’s Muslim holy places”. This is ambiguous: it seems to imply that the Saudis are the guardians of the Holy Places in Jerusalem. Not so, they are guardians of Medina and Mecca: historically the Palestinians have been regarded as guardians of the Holy Places in Palestine – see the book “Remembering and Imagining Palestine”.
    There was never any possibility that partition of the land would solve the conflict. The intention of the Mandate was to produce an independent State of Palestine which would be the “common home” of “two nations”, Jewish and Arab, with “perfect equality” between them, in the words of the 1921 Carlsbad Resolution of the World Zionist Congress. The present situation is that both the States of Israel and Palestine exist as legal entities. Neither is going to allow itself to be absorbed by the other. A one-state solution can only come about by a union of the two existing states, and to be acceptable to both peoples it must be a union in which each preserves its national life and identity – see “The One-State-Two-Nations Proposal” for ideas on how that might work in practice.

  2. “historically the Palestinians have been regarded as guardians of the Holy Places in Palestine ”
    not exactly. specific Arab families passed down the upkeep and not guardians as in the military sense.
    there was never a central government nor a{P} Falastinian army as they were ruled by the Ottomans from the 15-16th century until about 100 years ago when the European countries divided it up.

    1. Marty: caretakers, guardians, protectors – all mean the same thing, more or less. According to the book I mentioned, their role as guardians of the Holy Places played an important part in the development of a distinct Palestinian national identity.

      “There was never a central Palestinian government”: correct, but that is not relevant to Richard’s post.

  3. The Trump move, even if delayed or even just verbal, may be a wake-up call to those Palestinians and Arabs, Muslims, that understand that they are in the process of losing Jerusalem, even a shared Jerusalem. The two-state solution was and is fantasy given Israel’s hegemony, might, hold over the US.It’s harder now to get people to seriously believe that we are honest brokers if we ever were, but there are those…

    We were not; it was sold that we were. Which is why there was never a deal. What was offered never served justice EVEN after Palestinian acquiescences over time to less and less and obvious acceptance of Israel.The Israeli-US goal seems to be, or was in essence, playing for time as Israel settled and claimed more land that was to be a Palestinians state. Each protestation, intifada, violent, non-violent, only sealed the opinion amongst enough folks internally and abroad here in the US that Palestinians are restive, terrorists, rejectionists, want it all, and don’t deserve a state.

    And so time goes by and Israeli’s buy this, the peace movement implodes, and they sell it to their supporters. The goal: to get quiet and normality as they spread out to the West Bank, East Jerusalem, make two states impossible. The wall and the “operations” (“mowing the lawn” periodically) serves this purpose too. It’s “necessary” this military occupation. It justifies occupation for 50 years.

    Palestinians,if so abandoned by the Arabs, may turn more to real terrorist tactics as opposed to mere resistance ( including the non-violent sort) in their desperation.

    Or will they give up? I don’t know. But this latest brings more reality home to them, a depressing reality if one believed the fantasy. . Or so one would think. They have lost so many to this struggle. We will see.

    I want to see the uprisings. I don’t like what Israel has become, not good, not sustainable. for Israel, not a healthy state of being with this original sin magnified many times over.

    Future Israeli generations might ask, as we might well here now in the US, “how did we let this happen to us”?

  4. ‘The end of Israel as a Jewish state.’

    This is what comes of conquering your neighbors. They become your subjects, and subjects become citizens. Israel chose this fate.

  5. Can’t understand the delusion of the far left which refuses to see this as a major Muslim issue. Why is this important? B/c it means many Muslims will never accept Israel with Jerusalem as its capital. Not much to do with Palestinians but rather a religious principle.
    How else can one explain the reaction of Muslim countries on the other side of the globe? https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/1.4675922

    All these countries with terrible record of human rights become light-to-the-nations all of the sudden. Does anyone buy it?

    1. Human rights? Even as it pertains to Israel as well? Muslims have a right to access and jurisdiction or sovereignty of their holy sight/s. If they don’t accept Israel’s sovereignty of the whole of Jerusalem,that’s defensible. Jewish claims of all of Jerusalem as it’s capitol is what is being intimated or said. The reaction to the latest Trump announcement is an indication of the sensitivity of this issue and that Muslims everywhere are not going to just roll over… nor would Jews or Christians if Muslims claimed all of Jerusalem.

    2. @ Ginger: You prove the concept that a tiny bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. There are many issues here more than just a religious one. There are political ones too, such as Israeli sovereignty over Jerusalem. By recognizing this, Trump & Bibi have opened a can of poisonous worms. THEY are the ones who’ve brought the religious issues forward because they knew that offering Jews sovereignty over Jerusalem and its holy places is precisely the sort of thing which would cause this explosion.

      If the U.S. had offered Jordan sovereignty over Jerusalem and control of the Kotel, the Jewish Diaspora would’ve reacted almost the same way. Not to mention all the lunatic Israeli settlers who would’ve started killing Jordanians right & left.

      Yours was an Islamophobic comment. That violates my comment rules & I won’t permit any more from you.

  6. ‘Mr. Erekat’s change of heart is unlikely to change Palestinian policy. The dream of a Palestinian state is too deeply ingrained in a generation of its leaders for the Palestinian Authority to abandon it now. Israel would be unlikely to accede to equal rights, because granting a vote to millions of Palestinians would eventually lead to the end of Israel as a Jewish state.’

    Why don’t we change a few words in the last sentence?

    ‘ South Africa would be unlikely to accede to equal rights, because granting a vote to millions of Black Africans would eventually lead to the end of South Africa as a White state.’

    Now I think I understand

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