22 thoughts on “Oh the Joys of Dimona! – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. I took a peek at the websites of the DOE, LLNL, LANL (all organizations that were (or their predecessors were) setup for nuclear weapon research and production) –

    It seems that they are there for general PR, feel-good, and attracting candidates. Mention of offensive weapons is scant to non-existent. At most defense and “security” are mentioned.

    1. @ lepxii: A simple Google search on the DOE website proves you wrong: http://energy.gov/public-services/national-security-safety/nuclear-security-nonproliferation This web page clearly acknowledges one of DOE’s roles is managing our nuclear weapons cache. But the Dept of Energy was not set up solely for nuclear weapons research & production. So you’ve gone a-cropper right from the start. IT has far more functions than just that. As for the other agencies, I’ve never heard of them & don’t know what you’re talking about. I assure you that if I tried, I could find thousands of references to WMD & nuclear weapons on U.S. govt sites.

  2. I attended a youth competition held in Dimona several months ago. The locals were very warm and friendly to everybody. Jews, religious and secular, Israelite and Bedouin children all came together in a friendly competition. The good people of Dimona made everyone feel like winners.

    Richard. You should visit Dimona one day.

    1. It appears from this website that Richard’s view of Israel is refracted through a series of funhouse mirrors, while on LSD. Seriously Richard, you just need to visit Israel and see the reality. I spent time at Bar-Ilan a few years ago, Jews and Arabs together on the campus sitting on the grass, in the classes etc. you appear to have built your vision of Israel entirely off of the Internet and books and articles. Your view of Israel is simply not reality.

          1. It certainly doesn’t prove your point; a professor who got into problems for the mere facts of expressing equal sympathy to ALL victims, and the reactions by the staff, students and other professors undermine you BS about Richard not seeing the Israeli reality. Everyone except Ziocaine-addicts see the reality !

    2. @ Abby: When you can assure me Shabak won’t arrest me the moment I step foot on Israeli soil, then possibly. But as Yossi Nakar says: I’ll bring my iodine pills!

      Did you ask how many of those whose family members work at the nuclear facility have developed cancer? Or when was the last time they were directed to take or maintain a supply of iodine pills? I didn’t think so.

      1. Richard. When Israel’s secret nuclear program was in it’s infancy, mistakes were made.
        Since that time, technology and knowledge have reduced the ‘human factor’ with it’s propensity for error. It’s called a ‘learning curve’.

        But, why miss an opportunity to shame Israel?

        As far as Shabak goes, why don’t you hire a Israeli lawyer to facilitate your visit? He/she can investigate, beforehand, whether your fears of arrest are genuine.

        1. @ Abby: Oh my goodness. The fact that the water, air & ground in & around Dimona were contaminated & continue to be; along with the fact that thousands of workers got cancer & continue to do so…all that indicates mistakes were made long ago in the deep dark past. But today everything’s honky-dory. Not a trouble in the world.

          As for shame, the Israeli nuclear weapons industry and the toxic impact it’s had on the country is what is the real shame. Not my writing about it.

          I didn’t ask for advice about hiring a lawyer. I asked you to guarantee that I wouldn’t be arrested. If you can’t, then don’t invite me to visit a country in which my freedom would be jeopardized.

  3. I understand you prefer the dimona industry not exist. In other words , you prefer Israel not exist. Why don’t you just come out and say it?

  4. With this terrible deal with Iran, this new Dimona website could be meant for the Iranian public to let them know that any aggression on the part of their government would be met with their own destruction. Its called nuclear deterrence and mutual assured destruction, a policy that has worked well during the Cold War and which is still keeping the peace between the US and Russia.

  5. From an interview with the author Amos Elon who lived in Israel for seventy years (possibly longer than Abby and John F. clocked ujp together) and finally left it in disgust to settle in Italy:

    “And the result is that this place has corrupted itself?

    “The occupation certainly corrupted Israeli society. There is no dispute about that.”

    Has Israel slid into a situation that places it in a category other than the democratic Western nations?

    “Without a doubt. And I’m still wracking my brain wondering what those people were thinking after the Six-Day War. How did they think they could keep it? What did Dayan think? Did he really think that if we just treat them nicely, everything will be fine? What provinciality it was. What historic ignorance. Had this ever happened anywhere else in the world? From this perspective, the Israeli occupation is perhaps the least successful attempt at colonialism that I can think of. This is the crappiest colonial regime that I can think of in the modern age.”

    How is it worse than French or British colonialism?

    “In the French and British colonies, there were mixed marriages. In India, for instance. But especially with the French. They’re freer than the British are in bed, that’s well-known. But both the French and the British tried to co-opt the elites. As a rule, whenever a European nation took over territory in the Third World, it tried to embrace the elite. Here there was no such attempt. There were no mixed marriages, there was no significant commercial cooperation. The only human partnership was in the lowest dimension of all: crime.”

  6. @Arie

    If every Jew suddenly packed up and fled the Occupied Territory, do you really think that would mean the end of the 100 year I/P conflict? What ‘liberal, progressive, enlightened Palestinian political entity, would fill the power vacuum?

    Arie. Look at the examples you cited.
    Britain and France gave up their colonial enterprise, and lo, they’re still having problems with absorpsion.

    Maybe if Alon had lived longer, he might have noted this.

    1. @ Abby:

      If every Jew suddenly packed up and fled the Occupied Territory, do you really think that would mean the end of the 100 year I/P conflict?

      Do I believe that if the moon were made of cheese astronauts could enjoy Brie & toast there? C’mon. If you want to create hypotheticals at least make them somewhat reasonable.

      But if we pursue your ridiculous hypothetical–if settler abandoned their colonies yes, the immediate problem would be ended. However, the Israeli government would still have to recognize Palestinian rights including establishment of an independent state along with ROR for ’48 families & their direct descendants.

      So you think that if Israel miraculously abandons its colonial enterprise it should magically have no further problems? You think after 70 years of injustice & theft that Israel will suddenly become “normal?” Why would you think such a ridiculous thing? South Africa still reels from the results of apartheid decades after it abandoned it. The U.S. still suffers from the toxic effects of slavery & racism centuries after we freed our slaves. These are stains that linger unfortunately.

      Alon would never have agreed with anything you believe. He was far too smart for that.

  7. @Abby

    You make it appear as if Britain and France voluntarily gave up their colonies. And subsequentrly had to cope with the consequences of that unwise dewcision.

    This is of course not what happened. They were forced to decolonize even though as colonial administrators they were far more enlightened than the Israelis. But Israel has the illusion that with its repressive policies it can hang on to territories that don’t belong to it.

    That is what Elon means when he refers to Israeli “provincialism” and “historical ignorance”.

  8. This Dimona story again raises a question that occurred to me a few decades ago. The European zionists decided to build a new country inside Palestine. This could only been done through war. And not a war that could be won in any single engagement but one that has been going on for decades will will likely last centuries.

    They then decided to settle 80% of all Jews in the greater Tel Aviv area. That is an area that can be covered by the blast radii of about 6 or 8 moderately sized atomic bombs. One would think that any sensible person with a long range strategic vision would work very hard to restrict those wars to the use of conventional weapons. But no. The Israelis decided to introduce nuclear weapons. So the question is: What were Perez, Dayan, etc thinking when they made that decision??

    Anyone who thinks that Israel is a safe haven for the world’s Jews has to be stark raving mad.

  9. @Abby

    You make it appear as if Britain, France and other colonial powers voluntarily decided to give up their colonial possessions and then were faced with the consequences of that decision.

    That is of course not what happened. They were forced to decolonize even though they were better and more benevolent colonial administrators than Israel is. Israel, by contrast, has the illusion that it can keep millions of people subjected to colonial rule by repressive measures. That is what Amos Elon was referring to when he talked of Israel’s “provincialism” and “historical ignorance”.

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