Bibi’s New Faux Peace Initiative
I would call Bibi’s and Yvet’s latest quasi peace initiative an act of political theater, except that it does an injustice to real drama, which may move humanity to powerful action. This plan announced by Bibi today is more like performing anesthesia on a corpse (the peace process, that is).
Israel’s leader dredged up a second-hand peace plan he’d previously trotted out when he thought Bougie Herzog was going to be his dance partner in forming a new government. He and Bougie jointly announced with great fanfare they were responding positively to a supposed peace feeler put out by Egypt’s military junta leader, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi. The new Israeli political Bobbsey Twins were to travel to Egypt to open the door to this new peace initiative with an immediate trip to Egypt. Except a funny thing happened on the way to Cairo: the Labor Party’s rank and file MKs revolted against Bougie’s rank attempt to aggrandize himself with the foreign ministry portfolio at their expense. Herzog had to flee the ball before he could try on the golden slipper Bibi offered him and before he turned into a political pumpkin.
Unfazed, Bibi turned to a new Cinderella, Avigdor Lieberman, to be his new dance partner at the ball. Apparently, despite his rather large oafish feet, Yvet’s fit the glass slipper perfectly. But the two had a problem: the new government Bibi formed was even more right-wing than the last one. Lieberman, has a rank reputation as a Palestine-hater and Arabophobe. He even once threatened to bomb the Aswan Dam if Hosni Mubarak didn’t play nice with Israel.
Despite past history, Bibi’s friend in Cairo was willing to let bygones by bygones. Al-Sisi reportedly continues to hold the olive branch out for the new Bobbsey Twins. All they have to do is endorse the 2002 Arab peace plan proposed by Saudi Arabia and the Arab League. It called for a two-state solution and return to 1967 borders in return for mutual recognition.
Here’s what Bibi the Weasel had to say about it:
“I remain committed to making peace with the Palestinians and with all our neighbours, as the Arab Peace Initiative includes positive elements that can help revive constructive negotiations with the Palestinians,” he said.
“We are willing to negotiate with the Arab states’ revisions to that initiative so that it reflects the dramatic changes in the region since 2002, but maintains the agreed goal of two states for two peoples,” he added.
Do tell me, dear reader, what any of this gibberish means. So the Arab plan contains “positive elements” and Israel is willing to negotiate with the Arabs using it as some sort of basis. The goal of all this is two states, supposedly. But just what has Bibi said or offered? Precisely nothing.
Nor does al-Sisi expect Bibi to offer anything because he cares about the Palestinians as little as Bibi does. In fact, the very idea of these two jackals deciding the fate of Palestine is a joke too dark to utter.
So if this gesture is as empty as it appears, what’s its real purpose? To discover that you have to go back to the formation of the new Israeli government. The government that preceded it was widely labelled the most right-wing in Israeli history. The current one is even more rightward-leaning. So how best to offer the world a show of moderation without expending any real political capital? Embrace the will ‘o wisp offered by al-Sisi.
The Egyptian doesn’t mean what he said. Bibi doesn’t mean what he said. But for the price of a few empty speeches, all of them come out smelling, if not like a rose, then at least like a cheap carnation (which doesn’t have much smell at all).
To show how empty this gesture is, Naftali Bennett, leader of the Bayit Yehudi (Jewish Home) Party, the third-largest grouping in the government, immediately dismissed the chance there could be any Palestinian state on his watch. If Bennett pulls his eight Knesset seats from the governing coalition, it will fall unless Bib can replace them with another willing victim. So there will be no Palestinian state. I was going to say, “until this government falls.” But the chance of there ever being a Palestinian state are next to nil unless and until the international community steps in and forces the issue (and that may mean never) at the rate things are going.
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Clearly, it is Abbas, who doesn’t want to dance.
“It is not just that Abbas and the PA turned their backs on any peace talks with Israel — a position they have hewed to ever since” turning to the international community for unilateral actions, wrote David Pollock, the Kaufman fellow and director of Project Fikra at The Washington Institute. “It is also that they had decided thenceforth to seek independent statehood for themselves without paying any price at all to Israel — neither the end of claims and conflict, nor a compromise on refugees, nor formal agreement on any other issue. In other words, their objective was land without peace.”
@ Abby: Seth Klarman’s lying, hoaxing Times of Israel, and the Likud Lobby’s JPost & Aipac’s WINEP all agree its Abbas’ fault. If wishing & hasbara only made it so.
What reason on God’s green earth does Abbas or any Palestinian have to engage in this charade. None. If they did participate they’d be even more collaborationist than they already are.
1. It is obviously in the Israeli interest to appear to be holding an olive branch, so making such a statement is close to a no-brainer. It is also in the Israeli interest to discuss the two-state issues with Egypt, Jordan, and the gulf-states (given that there is no one to discuss with in Syria and Iraq at the moment due to chaos) – as opposed to an Obama or French initiative.
2. While “Jewish home” (Bennet) might pull out if a two-state solution were to emerge – it is unlikely this in and of itself would fell the coalition as “yesh atid” and Labor would come barging in in to support the government this highly unlikely event. Bibi’s political problem in such an eventuality would be rebels inside the Likud who could potentially topple him (an issue face both by Begin and by Sharon – with different political outcomes (Sharon left the Likud to form Kadima).
3. Lieberman (who admiteddly also supports using force with lesser restrications than today) is actually quite pragmatic on the two-state front. His long-standing position has been a willingness to form a Muslim entity in the Muslim populated zones in the West-Bank and “the triangle” (Wadi Ara, Tayibe, Baka, etc.) – not based on the 1967 lines, but rather on demographic lines (including returning area that was ceded to Israel (with Muslim population) in the 1950 armistice, and possibly other Muslim populated localities adjacent to the Muslim state, while retaining areas populated by Jews or that are vacant).
4. Israeli intransigence aside, closing a deal with the PA is practically impossible as long as Abu-Mazan is in place. Abu-Mazan is currently unelected (his term ended in 2009 – no election were held since), and he is 80 years old. As long the succession issue is resolved, there is a problem here.
@ lepxii: When the hasbara brigade here argues that Lieberman is “quite pragmatic” about 2 states despite the face that he seeks to ethnically cleanse Israel itself of a good portion of its own citizens, you know they’re pissing on our backs & telling us it’s rain! It’s also hilarious to hear locutions like “Muslim entity” (whatever the hell that means).
Abu Mazen ain’t your problem, buddy. Look in the mirror. That’s where your problem lies.
While Lieberman has a public image of a bully, he is definitely to the -left- of both the Likud (Bibi supposedly says he supports two states – most of the rank and file definitely doesn’t) and Jewish home (against a Palestinian state. Pro annexation) on the peace process. He’s also definitely on the liberal side in Israeli politics on religion&state.
The combination of -bully- and relatively (to Israeli right-wing parties) left-leaning public policy is similar to perhaps Chris Christie (“Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee”) and Trump.
Coverage of his past “peace plans” (obviously a wish list) are here –
For the most part, (in 2014 he suggested economic incentives for migration in addition) – he’s suggesting moving Israeli Arabs into Palestine by drawing a border line that includes Israeli Arab towns (e.g. Taibe which is Adjacent to Tul-Karem) – people residing in this towns would not move.
Territory-wise – he is statedly wiling to give up most of the occupied territories, including most of east Jerusalem (in addition to Muslim dominant areas inside the 67 lines). In the Israeli political spectrum – this falls between Likud and “Yesh Atid”.
Of course – he is a bully (at least in what he says).
@ lepxii: Bibi has a “public image as a bully.” Meaning, that he really isn’t one? Are you daft. He beat up a 15 year old who insulted his son & was only not prosecuted by dint of his political connections.
It doesn’t matter whether Israeli Palestinian citizens will have to “move” or not. They will lose their citizenship by force. This is ethnic cleansing. And calling Lieberman to the “left” of anything in this government is a bit of hocus pocus.
…”Abu-Mazan is currently unelected (his term ended in 2009 – no election were held since), “…
Utterly irrelevant. Abbas is the unelected President of the Palestinian Authority, true enough, but the PA is not the negotiating partner to any final-status talks with Israel. The PA has no role to play in that farce, and has never once had representation in those talks.
Since the exchange of letters between Yasser Arafat and Yitzak Rabin then only – repeat, the one and only – Palestinian organization that is recognized as having the authority to negotiate a final-status deal with Israel is…. the Palestine Liberation Organization.
Not the PA.
Your confusion stems from the fact that the current – and quite legitimately chosen – Chairman of the PLO is…. Abbas.
In short: Abbas owns two hats, one of which he is perfectly entitled to wear, and the other one he wears simply because nobody else wants it and nobody has earned the right to take it from him.
Pointing out the latter is pointless when discussing final-status issues, precisely because Abbas dons the former whenever he enters the negotiating tent.
And……he’s perfectly entitled to wear *that* hat until/unless the PLO declares someone else to be their Chairman.
One of your best, Richard.
What does this gibberish mean? On the face of it, it sounds as if Bibi ( royal ‘we’) is now willing to consider the Arab Peace Initiative, since it has been revised to accomodate the ”dramatic changes in the region since 2002″ . Like, changes that occurred naturally (hey, what can you do?), not as a result of his administration’s expansionist policy . I’d bet they are getting more and more dramatic with each passing day.
He probably means that he is not going to give the Golan back for starters, because of ‘changes in the neighborhood’….
…”On the face of it, it sounds as if Bibi ( royal ‘we’) is now willing to consider the Arab Peace Initiative, since it has been revised to accomodate the ”dramatic changes in the region since 2002″ . ”
No, it doesn’t mean that at all.
There has been no “revision” of the Arab Peace Initiative.
Its text *today* is exactly the same as it was when it was offered to Israel in 2002.
What Netantyahu is says is that **he** wants to sit down with the Arabs and have a hand in revising what is in **their** offer to **him**. Then – and only then – he is saying that he might be interested in entering into negotiations.
Think about that, because in effect Netanyahu is demanding that he have a seat on both sides of negotiating table.
Imagine if Ali Khamenei had insisted that he be involved in US Cabinet discussions regarding their position prior to the negotiations on the Joint Comprehensive Plan Of Action.
Imagine if George H Bush had insisted that he have a hand in deciding what the Kremlin would table at the beginning of the SALT talks.
In both cases the answer would have been the same: No, you stick to **your** side of the table, buddy, and let us handle **our** side of the negotiations.
What Netanyahu is claiming is beyond chutzpah. It is so utterly ludicrous that not even Donald Trump would propose deal-making on those terms.
It’s Avigdor Liberman and not Avigdor Feldman.
@ Moe: Right. I was reading an e mail sent to me with Feldman’s name in it & had a momentary slip.
bibi dreads the french naive plan. they’ve inserted the word “deadline” here and there to spice it up but the fear is that the US may think it’s interesting and back it up. now you have a whole bunch of countries supporting what bibi’s worst nightmare will be.
his will be the last finger holding the dike before it explodes, for explode it will and no benett nor livermans racist laws will resist the imposition of a disaster
abbas has nothing but wait, this time HE HAS TIME on his side, up until now bibi cemented the status quo to build a whole israel now a silly idea will be our doom
i have a question, how stupid does bibi think the world is when he says ‘ I AM READY TO SIT DOWN RIGHT NOW AND DISCUSS A PEACE AGREEMENT WITH ABBAS “WITHOUT” PRECONDITION “EXCEPT” for himm to accept the existence of a religious state of israel” isn’t that a PRECONDITION IN AND BY ITSELF.
There already is a Palestinian State, in Gaza, it just happens to be ruled by terrorists. As to the West Bank, its getting smaller and smaller for the Palestinians due to their unreasonable demands: East Jerusalem, right of return and 67 borders. The sooner they come down from these ridiculous demands and agree to live in peace with the Jewish state, the sooner they will get some independence of their own. The main problem is that world, such as the French and naïve bloggers living comfortably in Seattle, continue to encourage the Palestinians to hold on and continue to press their ridiculous demands. The poor Palestinians in the meantime suffer, but they are the true victims of the world’s campaign against Israel and the world’s anti-Semitism.
@ Gaby: Look, this blog is not a playground for yr Likudist delusions. If you wish to speak offensively about “unreasonable Palestinian demands” like statehood, a capital in Jerusalem and the right of return, then you simply won’t comment here further. These are totally reasonable & legitimate demands to eveyrone in the world except you & the hasbara brigade.
I don’t have to encourage any Palestinian to do anything. They are actually grown adults and have their own views and interests which need no amplification from me. What you are really saying is that what I believe offends YOU, which is another issue.
I find your use of the term “poor Palestinan” both racist and offensive. You don’t give a crap about Palestinians. YOu’re a concern troll. A faker.
You are not long for this [blog’s] world I’m afraid. Say your goodbyes, your flight will be departing Ben Gurion shortly.
Isn’t it more offensive to the Palestinians to tell them that they should stay in the overcrowded refugee camps and wait forever for Israel to let them in? I doubt that you are naïve to believe Israel will ever let them in, so if we know that will never happen why not ask Europe and the rest of the world to absorb them like they did a million Syrians last year? Why would a Syrian refugee have more rights to live in Germany, Norway, or France than a Palestinian who’s been living in a refugee camp in Lebanon for the last 70 years? So no, I am not a faker when I say “poor Palestinian” being victimized by a world who cares more to make Israel disappear than the well-being of the Palestinians themselves. More “fakers” are those continuing to blame Israel instead of actually helping those Palestinians to get to Europe, the UN, the US to take them in. And no, there was nothing racist nor offensive in my term “poor Palestinian”. I used “poor” as in being victimized by a world that uses them as bargaining chips in their grand anti-Israel scheme.
Oh and I don’t know why you keep departing me to Ben_Gurion? I told you I am not Israeli, not a hasbara person either as I do not work for the Israeli government. I would have been proud if I was, but I am not. I am just pro-Israel and that’s it, which I hope its not enough reason to be banned from this site. Now, that would be racist.
@Gaby: Ah I see. You are motivated solely by compassion & fellow feeling for Palestinians. How noble–mighty white of you.
As for Palestinian refugees: no one has to “tell” them to remain in camps. They have no choice. Where can they go? In a leaky raft to Europe?
As for doing them justice, of course they will end up in Israel if that’s where they wish to go. And I know this will happen for one reason alone. Because Bibi & his successors will ensure it. Their intransigence & homicidal rage against Palestinians ensures the “worst” possible outcome as far as Israeli ultra nationalists are concerned.
As for absorbing them. The world owes Israel nothing in this regard. Israel created the mess through mass expulsion/ethnic cleansing. Now it will have to live with the consequences of making it by accepting refugees via Right of Return.
You don’t want to “help” Palestinians. You want to get rid of the problem. You can’t do it by mass extermination (that’s been tried before). You can’t do it by mass expulsion (also already tried during Nakba). So you trot out a desperate new theory: the world owes it to Israel to solve the problem. Well, no it doesn’t.
We have trod this ground before here & you’ve forced me to repeat arguments I’ve already made. I strenuously object to doing this.
Do NOT go over issues/arguments that I’ve already dismissed in the past. It wastes my time. If you have any doubt, Google the comment threads or ask.
You are an agent of Israeli hasbara. Either paid or not. Doesn’t matter which. But I wouldn’t believe any claims you make except if you confessed to being a paid agent.
Banning you wouldn’t be racist. It would practically be divine justice.
You must be nuts Gaby Miliki as a Zionist propagandist to demand Europe to take responsibility of Palestinian refugees outside Israel’s control. It is a fast way to loose the last remaining support Israeli Jews have in Europe when such demands get more public,. Haven’t you seen the aggressive and increasingly hostile reaction what those 1,2 million refugees (or better said economical immigrants, less than 30 percent of them were Syrians) had last year in Europe? Taking several millions of Palestinians would create an instant “cultural/religious explosion”. Equally difficult it would for Europe be taking “back” millions of in panic fleeing Jews and those returning some day in future is highly likely.
When we speak about the amount of Palestinians as Israeli citizens, under Israeli control (the occupied) and those in neighboring countries the numbers are so huge, that there is no real solution for Israeli Jews to keep long their dominance. Jews can not deport those Palestinians under their rule, they can not kill them or put them in small Gaza type ghettos and exploit them again for decades. The only solution is giving the equality and citizenship now when there is no possibility to 2-state solution. Palestinians know perfectly well that the numbers (=the real majority) and time are on their side, so why should they waste again a couple of decades in idiotic nothing producing negotiations while settler-Jews take the little what is left of West Bank and Jerusalem.
So Israel continues to build, expand its population and grab more of the West Bank, and walls continue to get erected leaving all the largest Palestinian population on the other side of the wall, like it was done with Gaza. The population within Israel including the largest West Bank blocks is likely to remain at a healthy 75% Jewish and 25% Muslim. The Palestinians on the other side of the wall, this State of Palestine, which is Gaza and a reduced West Bank, either capitulates and abides by the security demands and terms dictated by of Israel or Israel continues to exercise some control ie borders, land, air etc. If you call that “time is on their side” of Palestinians, hey, continue doing nothing, which is what Palestinians have been doing with great success. There is a saying that says “possession is nine tenths of the law”. And in case you didn’t notice, Israel has possession.
@Gaby: Undisputed possession may be 9/10 of the law. But disputed possession is not. And Palestine IS disputed. From Day One.
Conquest is not 9/10 of the law. In fact, it is illegal under international law.
The notion that a Palestinian majority would be “unhealthy” is racist and anti democratic. But get used to it because you are about to have precisely that. And your faux “Jewish democracy” will be in the crapper.
GM: “There is a saying that says “possession is nine tenths of the law”. And in case you didn’t notice, Israel has possession.”
Richard is perfectly correct, Gaby, and you are utterly wrong.
International Law has an entire branch devoted to situations where a nation comes into “possession” of territory via force of arms.
Under those circumstances the territory comes under “belligerent occupation”, and “the law” spells out in some detail that for the duration of that occupation the occupying power is obliged to do some things and is utterly prohibited from doing others.
And…… one of the things that an occupying power is prohibited from doing is colonizing that occupied territory.
And…. one of the other things that an occupying power is prohibited from doing is claiming that territory for itself.
The law is quite explicit about this: the occupying power is a custodian, and no matter how long it remains a custodian it is not allowed to claim ownership of the territory that it occupies.
Sorry, but if you want to talk about “the law” then you really should know what you are talking about.
You are also simply nuts: The world uses the poor Palestinians as bargaining chips in their grand anti-Israel scheme. Yeah, right.
This is classic Netanyahu. His talk about peace is just reaction to events, as usual. I agree that it is empty talk, to try to reduce the pressure on him from international initiatives. The Arab states are not interested in changing things with Israel either. The French initiative won’t go anywhere either, but it will generate more negative diplomacy for Israel, and this is what Bibi is trying to fight with his hints and promises to pursue peace. It is transparent to anybody who has the slightest understanding of politics here. It is against his DNA to actually initiate anything. “Change is bad. The world hates us no matter what we do. The do-gooder Europeans don’t have a clue about this region. We have to defend ourselves”. That summarizes Bibi’s strategic thinking. He is too cynical to think otherwise, and believes he is acting in Israel’s national interest.
you are ALMOST on the ball.
bibi doesn’t believe in the chip on the shoulder guilty feeling, not by a million miles
bibi is like is father – GREATER ISRAEL and nothing else
so whatever the salad du jour or from wherever it comes then we present another dramedy in order to STALL
that’s it. on the ground fait accommpli, done and over, only left are those pesky palestinians
I have three comments to make about this:
1) Interesting indeed that Netanyahu is floating this nonsense at the same time as Hollande is convening his mini-summit.
Pure coincidence, I’m sure….
2) Interesting indeed that Netanyahu insists that peace can only come about through direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians…. except when he has Sisi to talk to.
Because – apparently – if he has Sisi to talk to then it’s A-OK to talk to the Egyptians and leave those pesky Palestinians out of the picture.
3) I’d like to point everyone to this stunning concept: “We are willing to negotiate with the Arab states’ revisions to that initiative”.
Note that he isn’t talking about “negotiating a final-status deal”.
He’s actually talking about having a say about what the Egyptians are (and aren’t) allowed to take into the room with them if/when the two sides finally do enter that (hypothetical) final-status negotiations.
In effect he wants final-status talks to consist of Netanyahu on one side of the table facing off against a hybridized (or is that bastardized?) Netanyahu/Sisi tag-team on the other side of that table.
To understand how ludicrous that is, imagine if Anwar Sadat had insisted on joining the Israeli cabinet as they deliberated what red-lines Menachim Begin would take with him to the Camp David Summit.
Menachim Begin would – quite rightly – have told Sadat what he could do with any such offer of help.
Why does Netanyahu prefer to deal with Sisi? One thing is certain: he has not the slightest interest in the Arab Peace Initiative. That has been on the table now for fourteen years and during all that time Israel’s main interest has been to keep it out of sight.
But is Sisi interested in that initiative? He has to pretend he is to get the ball rolling but why would a tyrant,who is not the least bit interested in justice and democracy for his own country, want to assure these for the Palestinians? It is far more likely that he is willing to do Israel’s dirty work under the guise of serving Palestinian interests so he can have full relations with his Northern neighbour without incurring too much opprobrium from the Arab street.
Part of the game might be to get Dahlan, the corrupt former Fatah leader in Gaza and according to Alan Hart almost certainly an Israeli and American intelligence asset, to succeed Abbas. And why would Sisi and his Israeli brothers under the skin want that? Hart has the following suggestion:
“The short answer is that they hope and perhaps even believe that he would be prepared to use force to compel the Palestinians to accept crumbs from Zionism’s table – isolated Bantustans on 30-40 percent of the West Bank which they could call a state.
My speculation is that even if Sisi-led Arab plotting and bribery did result in Dahlan replacing Abbas as president of the PA, he would almost certainly be assassinated if he tried to impose Zionism’s surrender terms on the Palestinians.”
“Why does Netanyahu prefer to deal with Sisi?”
He doesn’t want to clinch a “deal” with anyone, least of all with Sisi.
Who do you think he is, Donald Trump?
Netanyahu is floating this idea for one reason, and for one reason only: the French have convened an international meeting to discuss Israel/Palestine, and Bibi wants to distract everyone’s attention away from it.
For that singular purpose he has floated the idea of talking with Sisi.
Q: Why Sisi?
A: Well, who else is there…..
“He doesn’t want to clinch a “deal” with anyone, least of all with Sisi.”
I didn’t say “clinching” a deal – “dealing” i.e. giving the impression that he is doing something on this might be enough for Netanyahu. Having said that dealing with Sisi might entail a bonus for Israel. This latter day pharaoh seems to have been pally with Netanyahu for quite a while now.:
This dates from more than a year ago:
“Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi has revealed that he talks with Israeli prime minister Benyamin Netanyahu “a lot”.
“I just want to reassure him that achieving peace [with the Palestinians] will be a historic deal for him and for Israel, and that we are ready to help reach this peace,” Sisi said.
The Egyptian president revealed his close relations with the Israeli leader in an interview with The Washington Post.
Sisi said that Egypt had been “honouring” its peace treaty with Israel since it was signed in 1979.
A sign of Tel Aviv’s trust in Sisi, he said, can be shown in Israel allowing Egyptian troops to enter central and eastern districts of the Sinai, despite this being against the peace accord…”
It stands to reason that Israel is thinking about a successor for Abbas (who is eighty) and could they find a better scoundrel for the job than Dahlan? And since they have to pretend, in the face of international activism, that they are still interested in “peace talks” why not deal with that other scoundrel who might deliver them Dahlan into the bargain.
This too dates from more than a year ago:
“Top Israeli minister met with Abbas rival Dahlan
Netanyahu has assured PA president that he did not sanction meetings with banished Fatah strongman, sources say
BY AVI ISSACHAROFF January 4, 2015, 6:30 am 10
A senior Israeli minister held several meetings recently with the ostracized former Palestinian Authority official Muhammad Dahlan, a bitter rival of PA President Mahmoud Abbas, Israeli sources, and Palestinian sources close to Abbas, have revealed to The Times of Israel.
The meetings between Dahlan and the unnamed minister took place in at least two European capitals, the sources said.”
OK, I’ll point out something that you appear not to know: the negotiating partner in any final status deal with Israel is…. the Palestine Liberation Organization.
It is not, and never has been, and never will be, the Palestinian Authority.
Your confusion stems from the fact that Abbas is both President of the PA and also Chairman of the PLO.
So even if your conspiracy theory comes to pass and Dahlan becomes President of the Palestinian Authority it will chance absolutely nothing, precisely because the PA has no representation in any final-status talks.
Dahlan would have to be parachuted into the Chairmanship of the PLO. Care to suggest how Netanyahu arranges that?
“OK, I’ll point out something that you appear not to know: the negotiating partner in any final status deal with Israel is…. the Palestine Liberation Organization.”
I find it easy to forgive you for your pedantry because it comes in handy with the hasbarists from time to time.
Where did I (or Hart) confuse the PLO and the PNA? And where is it stated that Israel would only seek for Dahlan to replace Abbas as President of the PNA? Why wouldn’t they attempt to keep the power in both PLO and PNA in one hand, as it was with Arafat and is with Abbas.
But even if Dahlan was only pushed into the function of President of the PNA, the suggestion that in that role he couldn’t influence final status talks sounds bizarre to me.
“Although many in the PLO opposed the Oslo Agreements, the Executive Committee and the Central Council approved the Accords. It marked the beginning of the PLO’s decline, as the PA came to replace the PLO as the prime Palestinian political institution. .. “ (Wikipedia) This is not obvious now because of Abbas’ double function.
Furthermore you can hardly expect me to provide a precise scenario for that elevation of Dahlan. One thing is certain: Netanyahu’s hand in it would have to be most carefully hidden. He might have hopes that Sisi can manage that for him.
“I find it easy to forgive you for your pedantry because it comes in handy with the hasbarists from time to time.”
I point out that it is the PLO, not the PA, who negotiates final-status issues with Israel, and that is dismissed as “pedantry”.
No, it’s not. The Palestinians are perfectly well aware of who represents them, even if you are not.
“Where did I (or Hart) confuse the PLO and the PNA?”
You conflate them, out of ignorance.
Please, be honest with yourself even if you can’t be honest with the rest of us: until I pointed this out you were under the impression that it was the Palestinian Authority that negotiated final-status issues with Israel. Correct?
“And where is it stated that Israel would only seek for Dahlan to replace Abbas as President of the PNA?”
I’ll ask the question again: how do you propose that Netanyahu parachute Dahlan into the position of Chairman of the PLO?
“Why wouldn’t they attempt to keep the power in both PLO and PNA in one hand, as it was with Arafat and is with Abbas.”
Ladies and gentlemen, our weasel words for today are “keep the power”, which is as meaningless a phrase as you are ever likely to read.
“But even if Dahlan was only pushed into the function of President of the PNA, the suggestion that in that role he couldn’t influence final status talks sounds bizarre to me. ”
And…. your puzzlement is meant to impress me is some way, is it?
WIKI: “Although many in the PLO opposed the Oslo Agreements, the Executive Committee and the Central Council approved the Accords. It marked the beginning of the PLO’s decline, as the PA came to replace the PLO as the prime Palestinian political institution. .. ”
Ladies and gentlemen, our second weasel word of the day is “prime”, which means…. well…. nothing.
It’s meaninglessness is highlighted by a single observation: Saed Erekat is the main Palestinian negotiator in final status talks, and has been for a very considerable time.
Q: Is he an office-holder in the PLO, or in the PA?
A: He gets to sit in the negotiating tent in his position as chief of the Steering and Monitoring Committee of… the PLO.
“Furthermore you can hardly expect me to provide a precise scenario for that elevation of Dahlan”
It is a legitimate question, because if you can’t answer it then your proposal is, indeed, nothing more than a wild conspiracy theory.
Dahlan is a waste of space **unless** Netanyahu can shoe-horn him into the position of Chairman of the PLO.
Your job, should you chose to accept it, is to explain how Netanyahu can accomplish that task.
If you can’t come up with a credible explanation then, so very sorry, your original post does indeed amount to nothing more than an outlandish conspiracy theory.
You have a strong desire to ‘win’ an argument. I have seen that often in your posts, and yes, you do get pedantic, condescending and overly pugilistic in those cases. I just would not do that to Arie if I were you, as he is in a different league than you (and than most of us).
I am afraid the “ladies and gentlemen” are not impressed. Well, I am not. Sleep well.