115 thoughts on “Breaking: Palestinian Youth Kidnapped, Murdered by Three Suspected Israeli Settlers – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Kidnapping Details Being Released

    Information about the kidnapping is slowly beginning to be released.

    Among the items found in the burnt out car involved in the kidnapping, according to a Channel 10 report, were 8 bullet shells, blood, a shirt, a Hassidic music disk that did not belong to the boys, and kipot that also did not belong to the boys.

    1. Fascinating, but grim, details, Oui. So little is known about this kidnapping, and from the start, there was the obvious possibility that there might be people from the settler community involved. But who owned the burned out car? It is amazing that this was not announced as soon as it was found.

      1. No proof either way, fascinating to read the comments though. Items could have been planted as the kidnapping was well planned in advance. When the kidnappers found out about the phone call made by Gilad Shaar, they must have panicked expecting IDF military swarming across the northern Hebron area. This sealed the fate of the three teens. Getting a 5 hours headstart due to incompetence, enough time to vanish.

        I couldn’t find any more details or sources. Must be under gag order, perhaps RS can find out more.

        1. Very true that those objects could have been planted. They may have been “props”, to get the teens into the car, things to make it appear to be an Israeli vehicle. But I don’t understand why there has been no statement about who owned the car. This could be a valuable clue, and there may be members of the public with information.

          1. @ LittleBat: There are members of the public with information. Palestinians who witnessed the kidnapping in front of the boy’s home. But they’re telling you something you don’t like hearing so you refuse to concede it has validity. Which is shameful, but to be expected.

      2. More of Shaer’s police call revealed: Gunfire and exclamations of joy

        Up until Tuesday, the police tried to diminish expectations from the recording, implying not much can be understood from the recording. Police top-brass claimed the words “I’ve been kidnapped” were not said, or not clearly heard, but the recording shows that even if these words were only whispered, the rest of the call – like the terrorists’ shouting – should’ve alerted the police that something was out of the ordinary.

        In the background, a man shouting “Head down! Head down! Down!” with an Arabic accent is clearly heard.

        It is possible one of the terrorists is heard saying “take it (the phone) from him.” This is followed by a scream, a gunshot, another one and then what appears to be a series of gunshots. Then a soft cry of pain, and gunfire again. And then silence. Estimates are that these were lethal shots. The call appeared to have disrupted the kidnappers’ plans, who had to shoot the teens immediately, while still in the car.

        1. Actually, RS, I am commenting on details from a story about the burned out car which was involved in the abduction of the three Israeli teens. It is in the context of that case, that a cd of hassidic music “not owned by the boys” makes sense. It is in this case that there has been a puzzling news blackout and no proper police investigation or call for witnesses.

          I don’t know what your blather is about my point of view being “shameful” but I have often noticed a lack of sense in your feedback.

          1. @ LittleBat: My apologies. I don’t read the comments in the threads themselves so I sometimes don’t follow the context or see the comment to which you were replying. I mistook your comment for a reference to the Jerusalem kidnapping & murder, rather than the Hebron one. Sorry.

  2. You jumped the gun. It seems definitely an honour killing according to police. But of course you won’t believe that because it doesn’t fit your theory that Israelis must be at fault.

    And trashing a railway station based on rumour is a newsworthy item. It’s baseless vandalism which ought be reported like other newsworthy items of extremists shouting ‘death to Arabs’ or ‘slaughter the Jews’. Sometimes we wish the news was different but we don’t control what happens in the real world.

    1. There is another rumour – printed in an ABC news story – that the Israeli police believe that there may be a family feud, and that a different relative had been subject to an attempted kidnapping some time earlier. This is different from the honor killing story (unless all the men in that family are gay), and slightly more imaginable.

        1. Seems like a red herring, because there has been no arrest. If it were a family feud, then the parties to the crime would be known. It is now being reported that the boy was burned alive. If true – how horrific.

    2. The murder of Jacob Israel de Haan was also portrayed as related to his being gay. (They said he was killed by some Palestinian man or boy with whom he had sex.) In reality he was shot by the haganah on order of Yitzhak Ben-Zvi.

          1. Haha, Hasbara Central is working overtime these days, they’ve even canceled summer vacations, me think !
            Noam Sheizaf wrote an article a couple of years ago about the Ministry of Hasbara having a situation room working in five languages, with 100.000 hasbaristas around the world available in time of crisis. This must be such a time.
            I think about the grief of this family, and how they have to deal further more with such disgusting rumours. The father of Nadeem Nuwarah, one of the youngsters killed on Nakba Day, mentioned this in an interview: that the claims of his son’s death being a fake/result of a Palestinian sniper or whatever hasbara invented made the grief even more unbearable.

    3. It is definetly a very strange interpretation of Tikkun Olam to write such an incindiery article before all the details are available.

      1. Sanych. Did you make such criticisms about the blame that is being laid on Hamas for the killing of the three Israeli Settler kids or, are you quite satisfied that the “Usual suspects” should be lynched by the ever-accomodating Israeli forces?

      1. Yes Richard- It was extremely bias. Starting with your contradictory header–Palestinian Youth Kidnapped, Murdered by Three Suspected Israeli Settlers- Second- You condemn Israel– “The perpetrators of this new crime will be apprehended. Not because Israel wants to solve the crime–it doesn’t. Most Israelis will feel justice has been served–the old fashioned way.” For a country that doesn’t want to find the perpetrators, arresting 47 people just last evening alone is a funny way to show it. There were all these witnesses, conveniently Palestinian, to the kidnapping yet they all stood idly by and did nothing– timid bunch that they are. You clearly have no idea what goes on in the Liddle East do you? The fact that the boy was gay — IS an automatic death sentence in Palestine- Read it yourself from a Palestinian writing on what goes on in Palestine—Words worth a lot more than your judgmental hypotheses based on bias rather than fact.

        1. @ Cindy Novak: My headline was not “contradictory.” As for the arrests, they had nothing to do with the murder. These were arrests of the lunatic pogromist shouting “Murder” last night in the streets of Jerusalem. Not to mention that arrests mean nothing. The IDF arrested 500 Palestinians in the W Bank after the Hebron murders. It hardly helped them solve the crime & they still don’t have the perpetrators.

          As for blaming the Palestinians witnesses for the crime, this is a heinous case of displacement. The Palestinians are victims in this murder yet you expect them to provide their own security & prevent settlers from plucking their own children from the streets. You are odious.

          There is absolutely no proof that the victim was gay. None.

          You are moderated. If you do publish another comment here, any violation of the comment rules which you must read, will lead to losting your comment privileges.

        2. ” The fact that the boy was gay — IS an automatic death sentence in Palestine”
          Bullshit ! And there is no mention of gays in the article you linked to. That’s typical Hasbara: claiming that an article deals with something that it doesn’t even mention, counting on the majority of the readers not to read it. The linked article deals with the rise in deadly violence, particularly in Gaza. You know what ? That’s due to decades of dispossession, killings, rise in poverty, and a population that is traumatized.

          1. [comment deleted for comment violation–homophobia is not permitted here. Read the comment rules. If you violate them again you may be moderated]

    1. I see now that this is the same video that was publicized today, showing the faces of the kidnappers.

    1. @ Lou: I didn’t hear you remaining cautious earlier when the Jewish boys were kidnapped. You knew what happened as soon as it happened. Yet now you refuse to believe Israelis are lunatic enough to take revenge in such an odious way. The Jerusalem Post is a worthless shmatteh. Do not use it here if you want to be considered credible.

      1. I knew what happened to the Jewish boys because I believed the story that said that gunshots had been heard on the tape recording. It was you who disregarded that leak.

        1. @ Lou: That’s nonsense. That rumor, which turned out to be true, was given to me by an Israeli on June 25th. I tried to document through a source I knew and trusted (the source who gave me this story was not someone I knew well) and could not, so I didn’t report it.

  3. “But the settlers are far more dangerous than the Qawasmeh family, since the fourth most powerful army in the world stands behind them and enforces their interests on both the rest of Israel and the Palestinians.”

    Save that there is no scintilla of evidence to support the alleged Qawasmeh’s involvement (or any other “suspect”. If the Israeli security agencies know so much there must be some blood on their hands for not thwarting that which they are possessing so much information about) there is a connection between the hideously besmirching “information” disseminated by the police regarding the boy Mohamed Hussein Abu Khdeir (the police, as per usual, get free also with it) and the fact that the settlers are an integral part and parcel of occupation agencies along side the army, the police etc.

    Not only that the transferring of civilians into occupied territories is prohibited by the law but also that could not be materialised but for the cooperation or eventually the assimilation of the settlers and the army and vice versa. In short, two branches of the same poisonous occupational tree. Hence, the murders of the Abu Khdeir are just the messengers of policies, spirits and ideas which are the raison d’être of the army, the police or succinctly, the Israeli government throughout the ages and despite its façade to be a democratic state.

  4. I got past the YouTube with no problem. It doesn’t show anything discernable.

    Don’t see why you’re so disgusted by the theory that it may be a criminal act and not a retaliation. You didn’t seem to mind at all when commentators openly assumed that settlers had invented the kidnapping of the 3 kids and M Torres has still yet to apologize for the filth he wrote after the truth is out.

    1. Shmuel.
      You never seriously thought that M Torres was going to apologize, did you?

      If Jewish settlers committed this heinous crime, than I guarantee that they will be arrested quicker than the Arab kidnappers will be turned in by their hamula.

      1. @ Lou: We’ll be waiting to see how long it takes to find the Jewish terrorists.

        As for your gratuitous racist snark about “hamulas” that’s it, you’re moderated. Next comment violation after that & you’re gone for good.

    2. @ Shmuel: I never believed, nor did I ever credit any commenter who said the kidnapping hadn’t happened or that Palestinians weren’t responsible. I challenge you to find a single word I wrote that supports such a claim by you or anyone. One commenter’s comment even merited an ironic dismissal from me. You apparently missed that.

  5. The police don`t need to solve the crime because it appears that you have already done that for them .

    1. @ angela: The police couldn’t solve the crime even if they wanted to. The Shabak could if they wanted to, but unless there is an outcry from abroad, they won’t. Israelis clearly don’t want, or don’t care for the crime to be solved.

    2. In the special reality of this blog, RS is prosecutor, judge and executioner. Questioning it will only lead to your own ‘modetation’.

      You see, challenges need response.

  6. “Most Israelis will feel justice has been served–the old fashioned way.”

    I work with many settlers in a hi tech company in Jerusalem all I have heard is shock and disgust.
    The people I spoke to were praying/hoping that this was not carried out by Jews.

    The Fraenkel family statement is more representative of the sentiments of the majority of Israelis.

    Meanwhile, less than 24-hours after burying their son Naftali, the Fraenkel family issued a statement saying it would be “horrifying and despicable” if the Arab youth was killed due to nationalistic motives to avenge the murders of the three murdered yeshiva students.

    “There is no difference between blood and blood, murder is murder,” read the statement from the bereaved family, who said they patently condemned murder in any form.

    Will you dismiss the following as just for show or propaganda purposes?

    In a statement issued by the Jerusalem Municipality Wednesday morning, Mayor Nir Barkat also condemned the “horrible and barbaric murder.”

    “This is not our way, and I am fully confident that our security forces will bring the perpetrators to justice,” he said. “I call on everyone to exercise restraint.”

    Construction and Housing Minister Uri Ariel (my insert an extreme right-winger) also came out harshly against the killing of the youth.

    “The murder of a young man and burning his body is a disgusting act,” he said in a statement. “I hope the police use all means to find the murderers as quickly as possible and to bring them to justice.”

    1. @ jip: Spare me the self-righteousness. It doesn’t play here. Uri Ariel is almost as responsible for these murders as the killers themselves. He single-handedly torpedoed Kerry’s peace talks. Barkat is an ultra nationalist supporter of the settler enterprise. His statements have no meaning and in fact are an insult to the memory of the Palestinian boy. He doesn’t give a crap about Palestinians, dead or alive. The comments from the Fraenkel family are significant and worthwhile and heartfelt. I do appreciate them.

      Don’t tell me about the moderation of the Israeli public. It’s a lie. And even if the Israeli public is generally moderate, they allow the extremists to speak for them and do nothing to stop them. So they are accessories to this murder as are you by your self-righteousness. You point the finger everywhere but yourself. You are not responsible. You did nothing wrong. No one did anythign wrong except perhaps a few loonies. That line of reasoning doesn’t play at all here.

      1. @Richard

        ” Uri Ariel is almost as responsible for these murders as the killers themselves. He single-handedly torpedoed Kerry’s peace talks. Barkat is an ultra nationalist supporter of the settler enterprise.”

        Oh please. The man clearly and unreservedly condemned the murder. Supporting the settler enterprise has nothing, I repeat nothing, to do with the cold blooded murder of innocents.

        1. @ Lou: If you believe Uri Ariel shed even half a tear for the Palestinian boy who was murdered you’re out of your mind. As for supporting the settler enterprise, it is directly related to expulsion, racism, hate, murder and all sorts of violence (both literal & figurative) against Palestinians. You are blind and if you do go as promised, no one here will miss you.

          1. Richard is right here: The settler enterprise is the whole case, it goes to motive. So how can you say it has “absolutely nothing” to do with the case? Are you perhaps skimming over the confiscation of property, the squatters sitting on other people’s land, the oppression and tormenting of people just because they are not Jewish?

          2. @David

            During the intifadas, the Arabs warred against Jewish civilians within the Green Line. Not Jews living in the settlements.
            Before Israel’s independence, in Mandatory Palestine, Arab and Jew fought a nasty, reprisal for reprisal, civil war.

          3. No one said he ‘shed a tear’. He did his duty as an MK and publicly condemned the murder.

            As you know, I’ve been commented here a long time and I’ll leave here whenever I see fit.

          4. @ Lou: Uri Ariel does his duty as an ultra-nationalist settler to sow death and destruction in Israel’s present and future. He is one of the worst members of the current cabinet. He only condemned this because he had no choice. Behind closed doors he’s celebrating it.

            I’ll leave here whenever I see fit.

            No you won’t. You’ll publish here when and if I see fit. And when I don’t, you won’t. Don’t get into a power play with me. I hold the cards and you don’t. Like it or lump it.

          5. @Lou

            That’s not the relevant case here.
            As to the other “warring,” Jews came to Palestine to displace the Arab population. Protecting home and hearth, resistance, is recognized by Geneva as legitimate struggle. But, this is not relevant here.

    2. I will believe in Jewish Justice when I see the perpetrators “liquidated” like Palestinians are and when I see Jewish homes destroyed by bulldozers as a “deterrent”.
      until then, oyu are simply a propagandist for an Apartheid state.

    1. We have to remember that when we say “settler” we mean people who are squatting illegally on land appropriated illegally, not law-biding good citizens but a biased sampling of people who are willing to steal land and rights from others who happen to not be Jewish.

  7. ני הקליפים לא מראים דבר. בראשון רואים רכב לבן שחונה ליד המדרכה. וואו. ובשני, תאונת דרכים, כנראה וילדה בבית חולים. הלוואי שתהיה בריאה. היכן בדיוק המכונית שדרסה אותה? בהכל אשמים הישראלים? גם בסוריה? גם בעיראק?

  8. Wow dude, you really hate us..
    Don’t know of any Arab youth murdered for being gay?! So, explain the huge community of gay Arab youth in the streets of Tel Aviv claiming they live in the streets because they risk death if seen in their villages.
    Your self hate blinds you. I will be the first to condemn the terrible killing if it is discovered that the perpetrators are far right Israelis. And I assure you they will be jailed for life and will be condemned by a huge majority of the Israeli public. Whereas if the terrorists who killed the three Israeli youths are caught and jailed, they will get a pension for life from abas and will be hailed as heros. The saddest thing is that you will immediately start supporting their release in return for futile “peace” talks.

    1. @ Itamar: There is no “huge community” of gay Arab youth in Tel Aviv. First, if you mean Palestinian youth you’re dead wrong. If you mean Israeli Palestinian youth, then of course they’re citizens and entitled to live where they like. You have no way of knowing whether they’re running from murderous family members. As for self hate, my only “hate” if that’s the world for it is for odious, racist, Arabophobia such as you represent.

      Your snark about Abbas and the pension is truly stupid and disgusting & violates my comment rules for racism. You’re moderated. I don’t like people defecating hate in my comment threads as you have.

      1. There is a substantial (not huge, a few hundred) PALESTINIAN gay youth community in Tel Aviv (not Israeli Arab – Israeli Arabs do not live in hiding in Tel Aviv, they can live where they wish).
        The facts are the Arab murderers receive PA pensions during and after their prison sentence.
        It’s not Arabophobia when your choice of neighbors includes Hamas, Hizbullah, Bashar El Assad, ISIS and the Muslim Brotherhood (or is pointing out the proliferation of genocidal groups in the “neighborhood” racist and odious as well).

        1. There is no more genocidal group on the planet than IDF, no state more emphatically racist than Israel. But, it’s always Jews as the victims, the targets, forgetting the deadly intent of Zionist Israel which kills and/or oppresses, humiliates and abuses anyone who is not Jewish within its sphere of control, period. The IDF rampages in the WB looking to abuse gentiles….isn’t that it?

          1. Surely even you can see how ludicrous your last statement is.
            The number of casualties in over a century of Jewish / Arab conflict is smaller than that on 3 years internal warfare in Syria.
            Israel is not perfect, far from it. It is trying to survive in one of the crappiest neighborhoods on the planet – and yes, it was a crappy neighborhood before we Jews came along to join the fray.
            Learn some facts and perhaps your unadulterated Judenhass will be restrained.

          2. @ Mikizo:

            The number of casualties in over a century of Jewish / Arab conflict is smaller than that on 3 years internal warfare in Syria.

            That is a false yardstick. The comparison should not be to a failed state run by a tyrant like Syria (unless you believe Israel should be in that category), but rather to a western democratic state, to which Israel wishes to be compared. Even if you compare Israel to a troubled state like the UK during the Troubles, there were 3,500 murders over a 30 year period. That doesn’t compare well to the 20,000 Palestinians Israel has killed.

            I’m repelled by fake Nazi-era terminology like “Judenhass.” Don’t use these terms again and read the comment rules.

      2. @Mikizo
        I said “genocidal” and that is what I meant. The destruction of Palestine life and culture goes on apace, the slo mo eradication of an undesired population of gentiles.

        Second, the Jews (Zionists) chose to situate their “villa” in that neighborhood and have no standing to complain about it as nobody forced this decision. Maybe they should situate the “villa” somewhere else where they might be more welcomed, say Florida?

        1. So when David makes (and continues making) obviously slanderous and baseless statements claiming that the IDF is the “most genocidal on the planet” (while the population of by David’s definition “unwanted gentiles” has grown from 2 million to over 5 million over the 47 years of the “occupation”) and that Israel is the most empathically racist state – is fine. Calling him out on those statements (and on his claim that Jews have “no standing” in their historic homeland) – is illegitimate?

          False yardstick indeed – Iraq war (US and UK ) – at least 150000 (some count over 1 million) at least 66000 civilians dead.
          Afghan war – 18000 to 20000 civilians
          French/Algeria – 350000 civilian (some count as high as 1.5 million or more than 10% of the population).
          Serbia (NATO bombing) – around 2000 civilians in 6 weeks.

          Vietnam ? Korea? Libya? Shall I go on?

          By any yardstick – Israel’s wars have been the least costly and had the lowest civilian/combatant ratio since the invention of modern warfare.

          Richard – how many British civilians did the IRA deliberately murder during “the troubles” ? How many buses, malls. night clubs, restaurant did they blow themselves up in? How many rockets did they fire into London? Yardstick indeed.

          1. I believe the IDF is genocidal, informed by a genocidal government and ideology. It is not about other conflicts but other “race” based conflicts. Second, the appeal to other murderous stats is disingenuous: What license is provided by the existence of other criminals and other crimes. What murderer ever got off because he defended: “Others do it?”

            I am amazed that the “unwanted gentiles” have expanded in number despite the effort to slowly erode their basis for life in their own land. If you mean this stat as a counter argument to “genocide” it does not go to the behavior of Israel but the endurance of Palestinians. It also argues that the Iron Wall doctrine is a fallacy.

        2. If you believe that the IDF where Jews, Arabs, Druze , Bedouins, Chriistians amd otehrs serve side by side is genocidal – you’re either misinformed or maliciously biased.

          The list proves a simple fact – when compared to any other conflict, the IDF’s behaviour is much less devastatingand costly than that any other military, including the “western democracies” that Richard referred to.

          Your amazement at the population statistics prove the same. I agree that living as a Palestinian under IDF control is unpleasant (and yes, this is an understatement). It is definitely better tahn liveing under PA control, Hamas control, Syrian, Lebanese and just about everywhere in the region with the possible exception of Jordan. This is the only area of conflict in the world where one side sends food, water, fuel, power and medical care to the othe side, while being shelled.

          You may believe that Israel has no right to exist in the ME (as your suggestion that we move the villa to Florida indicates). My grandparents came here precisely because Florida (or anywhere else) was closed to refugess from Germany in 1938 . Unfortunately your offer comes 80 years too late .

          PS Why should the Seminole pay for the crimes of the Arabs? Or the Germans?

          1. Why should the Arabs pay for “anti-semitism” in the European world? I do not believe the IDF has armed Arabs and Bedouins. I know there is ONE Arab woman in the IDF as Israel has publicized this like crazy. Even if so, they are not represented proportional to population are they? IDF is not 20& Arab, is it. Arab and Bedouin are unwanted identities.

            Not interested in how gentle Israel has been with its enemies. This propaganda point is most loathsome of all, and there is plenty to choose from: It is always how decent Israel is. The truth is anything but. For decades, Palestinians have been tormented, excluded, disallowed, cheated and denied. Israel has elelcted to demolish Palestinian homes in large number, jail Palestinians in large number, torture, kidnap, murder and control Palestinians who are relatively defenseless. (Don’t tell me about homemade rockets and stones!) This is decade after decade as Jews worldwide parade around as the innocent “victims.” This is outrageous.

            When the first armed Zionist landed on those shores intent on chasing out the population, Jews lost all innocence and all claims to victim hood. They became perps. And, yes, I do not believe Jews have anything that could resemble a claim on land they themselves failed to populate for two millennia. Twenty centuries is a very long time to stay away from “home.” Any claim to that “home” is highly dubious as it is based on ancient stories and little else.

          2. [comment deleted–I don’t publish anti-Palestinian propaganda in the comment threads. This is a comment rule violation. Read those rules carefully if you decide to comment here again. Your next violation may led to moderation.]

          3. @Mikizo I’ll be brief. For more detail see Greta Berlin’s comments.

            I do so love it when colonizers explain their good intentions in taking over a land from the inhabitants, how they mean well, are within their rights, won’t use guns, and expect to live in peace. Zionists came to Palestine intent on living side by side with Arabs and creating a state in which all inhabitants would be equal. The Arabs living there just didn’t understand. Darn.

            And it is informative to now learn that Palestinians are exempt from military duty, no doubt a reward for that population for serving as a beachhead for the Jewish immigrants.

          4. @ Mikizo:

            the IDF where Jews, Arabs, Druze , Bedouins, Chriistians amd otehrs serve side by side

            You live in cloud-cuckoo land. There are almost no Palestinian Israelis serving in the IDF.

            I agree that living as a Palestinian under IDF control is unpleasant

            Gee, dya think??

            It is definitely better tahn liveing under PA control, Hamas control, Syrian, Lebanese and just about everywhere in the region

            You’re only the 30th hasbarists who’s tried to make this dumb claim, which is also off topic. Israeli Palestinians don’t want to be treated better than citizens of other countries. They want to be treated equally to their Jewish fellow citizens, which is their right under your so-called democratic values & Declaration of Independence.

          5. Mikizo. Before you get too rattled about Israel being the genocidal state that it is….and yes, that includes the Israeli Jews who permit the genocide of the Palestinians…you should read UN Genocide Convention http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html which was originally promoted and campaigned for by a Jew.
            then come back and tell us why you still believe Israel is not perpetrating genocide on the Palestinians. I would be most interested to learn from your then-enlightened comments.

    2. This is a diversionary argument. Even if Palestinians have killed someone in the past, for being Gay, is that any better than Palestinians who have been killed by Isrealis Jews for being Palestinians?

      1. the IDF where Jews, Arabs, Druze , Bedouins, Chriistians amd otehrs serve side by side

        You live in cloud-cuckoo land. There are almost no Palestinian Israelis serving in the IDF – by delteing my comment – you too have show your true face.
        The was nothing in my comment that was not factual – your continued consorship of facts that do not contribute to your worldview is pathetic.

      2. Because if it were commiting genocide, there would not be 8 times as many Arabs in Israel than there were in 1948 .
        On the other hand, care to read the Hamas charter ? There’s a genocidal document for you right there.

        1. @ Mikizo: READ THE COMMENT RULES. The Hamas charter has been discussed to death here. That’s noted in the comment rules. There is no more discussion here about it.

          But there might be 20 times as many if Israeli Palestinians were equals to Israeli Jews. In fact, that may be what Israeli Jews are afraid of!!

        2. Mikizo. You obviously chose not to read the Convention on Genocide therefore you live by the “Ignorance is Bliss” principle.
          Population growth is NOT a negater of genocide. I will no longer argue this fact, just READ the four standards of Genocide and reflect on how they match with what Israeli Jews are doing to the Palestinians.
          Maybe you will still not wish to acknoledge the stark fact because it is too close to the past…

          1. Article 2
            In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

            •(a) Killing members of the group;
            •(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
            •(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
            •(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
            •(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

            You claim that Israel has commited ” acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group” – where and when ?

            What nation has Israel commited to destroy? If anything, it is guilty of “creating” the Palestinians as a “nation” . Prior to the 1960’s they saw themselves (and many still do) as “Arabs”
            What “ethnical group” has Israel commited to destroy? The same one that has more rights then in any Arabs country?
            What “race” has Israel commited to destroy ?
            What “religious group” has Israel commited to destroy? The only religious group in danger of destruction in Israel and the PA, are Palestinian Christians, and this is being done by Muslim Palestinians.
            Read the convention on Genocide yourself.
            There are several genocidal groups in the Middle East.
            Israel is not one of them.

        3. To start on a positive note with Miziko: You are absolutely right, there are many genocidal groups in the M-E.
          Sadly and I do mean sadly, Israel IS one of them.
          Yes, Palestinians do see themselves as a nation especially since Israel was and is, bent on destroying their identity. Yes, maybe prior to 1960, while they were still shell-shocked by the birth and oppression of Israel, they may have said they were Arabs, but how is that any different for you?
          Prior to 1949, Jews said they were Jews, now most of them say they are Israelis.

          Articles ‘b’ and ‘c’ of the Genocide Convention.
          When Palestinians are continuously terrorized by Settlers, soldiers and civilians alike, when they cannot set up their own businesses, when they cannot build their own homes because they cannot get permits, when they cannot do business overseas, when school admissions to Palestinians are restricted to only a few areas and their numbers are restricted, when they cannot travel even a few miles without humiliations and massive delays while Jews fly past, when their homes are bulldozed, while Jews’ homes are constantly being built and expanded, when their residencies in cities like Jerusalem is always in jeopardy, when they are not allowed to bring their spouses to join them from another area, when they are forcibly kicked out of their homes, when even Israeli Arabs are not permitted to return to their villages while Jews get to build homes right on or beside those vacated villages…
          When, when, when, when….
          Just how much of a list do you require or, are you simply arguing to divert attention from the evils of Israel?

          Oh please,do not burden me with demanding proof of what I say. You know and anyone else who is half-way intelligent, knows thjis is true and can find it with a few clicks of the keyboard.
          The fact is that if Israel did not have the blind protection of Uncle Sam, most Israelis would be on the dock for Crimes Against Humanity.

          I think Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel, that is not a call to genocide. Yes it is a clumsy way of saying they want what is going on in Israel to stop, perhaps not as elegant as saying White rule in South African must be destroyed. Of course, the new narrative of the Blindly Pro-Israel groups is that ANY attack on Israel is “anti-Semitic” and ANY call to destroy the current Israel (end the oppression) is a call to genocide. These re-statements of what contitutes Anti-Semitism and existentialsm for Jews, places anyone who opposes Israel and its policies in a no-win position. This is good short-term gaming, but a terrible long-term outlook.

          1. By the way, I believe Hamas can temper its position, it is too far to the intolerant side for my liking, but it is not a terrorist organization to me. I believe Israel is bt far…by FAR…a more terrorist organization than Hamas and Hizbollah put together.

          2. Read Article 7 – it calls for the killing of the Jews – not just the destruction of Israel.

            It is the equivalent of “White South Africa should be destroyed and all whites in and out of South Africa must be killed in the process”

            If you believe that calling for the destruction of Israel and the killing of its inhabitants in not genocidal, whereas fighting against that call is genocidal – you need some serious reality training.

            End of debate.

          3. @Mikizo I don’t condone mass murder or genocide, but I do understand. Jews continue to build a state intent on removing Palestinians who live there by whatever means. The travesties of justice regarding the killing of Palestinians derives not from the judicial system itself, the laws and such, but from the understood intent of eliminating Palestinians. Likewise, the massive slaughter of innocents in operations like Cast Lead. A dead Palestinian man, woman or child is one less to deal with about land and rights.

            That said, it is not hard to understand how the Charter of a resistance organization, “resistance” meaning the defense of home and hearth, might wish to counter unwritten Israeli policies of genocide with more explicit combative statements, a signal that Palestinians understand the intent of the Jews working to build their state, i.e. that they are not fooled by the facade of “democracy” and “equal rights.” It’s like Chris Rock said of OJ Simplson’s murder of his ex and her boyfriend, something about how he doesn’t think it is right to kill these two, but he understands.

        4. Miziko, you are a close-minded idiot and oyu seem to work off what YOUR fantasies tell you rather than read and understand fully before you shoot to kill…like Israelis are prone to doing.

          I read article 7 of the Hamas Charter and at the end, it quotes a saying from the prophet MOhammed about how Judgement day will come when Jews are killed everywhere (by whom?).
          First of all I have seen Hamas move from what was an organization that people could work with, to a more and more intolerant organization. This happenes when people are beleaguered and when they are being killed left, right and center and their very existence is in question. I do NOT support this intolerant behavior on their part or, on anyone’s part. Still, instead of loking to “liquidate Hamas” as the Israelis are doing, they would be better off talking with them. You cannot reduce or eliminate their massive support by killing and oppressing more and more Palestinians, but clearly, the only solution Israeli Jews know is to get a bigger hammer, then they wonder why Palestinians want to kill them all.

          Secondly, the so-called Hadith of the prophet is open to question and open todiscussion as to whether it is acurate, but such a discussion again, cannot be undertaken while Jews are slaughtering Palestinians.

          You asked me to name Blacks in government and Black physicians and I did. Now oyu are parsing your demand to show that Israel is better than Apartheid SA. You are setting extremely low standards for Israel to duck past and even then, Israel fails…but this is a never-ending argument where you will continue to insist that Israel was hand-crafted by God and is the shining light for Mankind.
          Good luck with whatever it is that you are consuming, I am done arguing with you.

  9. I am deeply troubled if in fact this boy was murdered by Israelis. Yet, either way, there is no place to compare settler and Israeli nationalist violence to Palestinian violence. The number of Israelis who have deliberately killed innocent Palestinians could probably be counted on two hands.

    1. @Oren: Umm, Israel has the 4th most powerful army in the world more than happy to kill Palestinians. The PA security forces don’t kill Israelis. So that leaves a powerful army killing Palestinians and a ragtag bunch of Palestinians willing to commit crimes & violence against Palestinians. So to all the lunatic settlers who’ve killed & maimed Palestinians (far more than the 10 you name) let’s add every IDF solider who’s ever killed a Palestinian. So you see Israel’s violence far outweighs any on the Palestinian side.

  10. RS you must have touched on a sensitive subject for all the hasbarists’ landing today.

    Netanyahu and his gang were poised for more revengeful atrocities but appeared to have lost unanimity for another war on the Palestinian people.

    1. @ Oui: I think there was a concerted effort of some kind. Don’t know if it was manufactured by the MFA or some other entity. This series of attacks & attempts to plant this bogus storyline stinks to high heaven.

      You should see the comments I haven’t posted!!

  11. Crucial 48 hrs M. Abu Khdair’s Funeral Today

    BBC Interview with Abu Khdair’s mother

    “My son wasn’t answering.”

    In BBC reporting, the clashes between Palestinian youth and (military) police using mob suppressing grenades, seems to be near the family house. Mohammed Abu Khdair’s funeral will be held on Thursday following noon prayers at around 13:00 local time (10:00 GMT).

    Correspondents say there are fears the funeral will be followed by more clashes like those which erupted outside the teenager’s home on Wednesday. Protesters threw stones at officers, who responded by firing sound bombs, tear gas and rubber bullets.

    The boy was seen being forced into a car in Shufat, East Jerusalem, early on Wednesday. His body was later found, bearing the marks of violence, in West Jerusalem. See map of locations.

  12. I hope everyone can tell from the few times I comment around here that I am the not the confrontational/blame game type, but having read this comments thread, I think it might be time for all to take a deep breath & let things cool down. It has been a rough few weeks and I believe it’s wise to take time to reflect and steer clear of the reactionary finger pointing. I’m not blaming one side of the other & maybe I’m out of line in offering this suggestion but I’m always of the opinion that it never hurts to take a step back and try to put things in perspective, especially in matters involving death. Just my two cents, not trying to step on toes. Be well, everyone.

    1. Equivalency Hasbara. Ari. And sure, when Israel is looking bad, all of a sudden it’s time to “cool things down”

      1. That was totally uncalled for, unfounded & I believe an apology is in order. And here is two more cents: in the future, please do not cast aspersions on someone you do not know. I am always respectful of everyone’s ideas here & until now, I’ve always seen said respect reciprocated.

  13. What a lot of tripe. Like any murder in Israel, this one will be investigated and, hopefully, the perpetrators caught, tried and incarcerated. All of Israel (yes, a few hotheads are always an exception) condemned the murder as we always would.

    I despise these hate articles that twist everything to suit the viewpoint of the extremist who wrote it.

    1. @Zahav RS said it would be investigated, the perps caught and sentenced and be out in a couple of years, standard operating procedures. How would you know this is “tripe” if you don’t read?

  14. The Hasbara BS on some of these replies is astounding. They have learned well from their little handbook on how to deflect the issue to something else, whine about hos good the IOF is and how wonderful Israel is. But the facts fly in their faces and always have. 1. Jewish terrorist gangs murdered thousands of Palestinians in 1948, driving them into the sea and out of their historic lands. This has been proven so many times, that, if the Hasbarites here don’t know how to look those fact up, they are pretty useless. 2. The Palestinians are the indigenous population, the European/American/South African/Russian Jews are the interlopers, stealing land and resources from the people who live there. 3. These squatter boys lived in an illegal settlement, one of them was in the IOF, and I blame their parents for dragging them into danter. 4. They were allegedly kidnapped in Area C, an area totally controlled by Israel, and their bodies were found close to where they were allegedly kidnapped. Even Israel says they knew they were dead, but NO ONE knows who did it. 5. No autopsies, no bodies, no proof of any kind, but huge proof at the torture and burning of a 16 year old in retaliation. Anyone who has ever been in the occupied West Bank or in Gaza knows the horrific treatment Christian and Muslim Palestinians undergo daily. You can BS some people who have never been there, but you can’t do that to us.

    Finally, comparing the horrors of surrounding countries is extreme Hasbara, since surrounding countries were INVADED by the US/Israel/Saudi axis of evil and have nothing to do with the ongoing slow motion genocide of the Palestinians by the 5th largest military in the world

    1. [comment deleted for comment rule violations–READ THE COMMENT RULES. Arguing the ins & outs of pre-state Palestine not only is a big snooze, in your case it’s anti-Palestinian propaganda, which we don’t countenance here. Next violation earns you moderation.]

      1. It’s really not a good idea to argue with someone like me, Mikizo, because it will simply show your ignorance. I was married to a Palestinian, a man who was born and raised in Safad and whose entire family was either murdered or driven out by Jewish terrorists in 1948. His family had been in Safad for generations and considered themselves indigenous. It really makes no difference whether they called themselves Turks, Arabs or Palestinians. They and hundreds of thousands like them LIVED THERE. More than 750,000 were driven out of their homes and farms in 1948 after the terrorist Stern gang massacred 150 Palestinians in deir Yassin.

        The fact that my two Palestinian/American children cannot go back and live in Safad, or even visit there (my daughter was refused in 1997) is abhorrent.

        Finally, I have lived and worked in the occupied Palestinian territories in 2003, 2005, and 2007, working with the International Solidarity Movement in Jenin, Bi’lin, Qalqilia, Hebron, Salfit, East Jerusalem and other places. I have seen the horrors vested on Christian and Muslim Palestinians by right-wing Jewish settlers armed to the teeth.

        I was one of five co-founders of the Free Gaza movement and successfully sent five voyages into Gaza until Israel began attacking us, wounding us, and murdering us. Only someone extremely ignorant of what has happened to the Palestinians could write some of the nonsense that you write.

  15. From many of my activist friends.

    Netanyahu when illegal squatters go missing in IDF controlled Area C of West Bank

    1/ Hamas did it! I have secret evidence which I dont want to share
    2/ Kidnap 500 Palestinians
    3/ Kill 10 Palestinians including 5 kids
    4/ Invade 1500 Palestinian homes
    5/ Publish photos of two suspects without showing any link to the teens
    6/ Blow up houses of above “suspects”
    7/ Bomb Gaza constantly for all the time the teens are “missing” ie 18 days

    Netanyahu when Palestinian kid is kidnapped tortured burned alive and found in West Jerusalem with kidnappers captured on CCTV with licence plates

    1. Lets not jump to any conclusions

    1. “The-Only-Democracy”….

      By the way, I’m looking for news about the two suspects, wonder if they’ve already been killed or managed to leave the West Bank.

  16. Hey, what’s the bet there will be no Jewish calls to kill the perpetrators of the Palestinian boy’s murder, no calls to kill his family either. I’ll also bet the houses of the Jews who killed the boy, will not be destroyed “as an effective deterrent”.

    Israel IS a great democrtacy…if you happen to be a Jew. Otherwise, you are as SOL as the Blacks in White South Africa in fact, much worse.

    1. Can you please name one black Supreme Court judge – in Apartheid South Africa? A black doctor? A black member of parliament? Black voters? Black diplomats?

      Stop flauntiing your ignorance.

      1. Welllll…actually Miziko, it is you who is so eager to show Israel in the best (if false) light, that you are getting carried away.
        There WERE Blacks and Coloreds in White South African Paliament, check it out. It is true that Blacks and Coloreds did not have the power of squat but they were in Parliament. No, I cannot “name” any but the facts are available to you if you actually care to read…just as the facts of Genocide. But you do have to read

        Black and Colored doctors? I can bet dollars to a pinch of dirt there must have been hundreds, if not thousands. I knew one who came to Pakistan (my Old country) to get his medical degree so he could return to RSA and become a doctor.

        I know, fantasy is so MUCH more comfortable than reality, isn’t it, Mikozo?

        1. Segregated doctors, of course. To care for Black and Colored patients. In white areas? In your dreams.
          No black or colored members in the White Parliament. Blacks and colored could “Vote” for WHITE members of parliament before that right was removed as well in the late ’50s. Check the facts.

    2. Yeah, when the Jewish killers are found, will there homes (settlements) be flattened? Another discriminatory nail in the coffin of Israel’s multiculturalism.

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