Israeli rap star, Subliminal (aka Yaakov Shimoni), posted a racist, genocidal Kahanist screed on Facebook in response to the murder of an Israeli soldier, Eden Attias, on an Egged bus in Afula this week. While the killing of the sleeping soldier by a Palestinian boy was a horrifying crime, the response by one of Israel’s leading hip hop stars is chilling both because of its virulence and because of his celebrity. Israel, already a country filled with intolerance, race-hate and Islamophobia, will be further provoked by such anger from a popular performer beloved by the country’s youth.
This is how the Forward profiled him in 2008:
One of the best-recognized pop musicians in his home country, he is credited with opening up the Israeli music industry to American-style hip hop. But he also has campaigned against drunk driving, has been made a goodwill ambassador by the Israeli Ministry of Education and has been honored by the Prime Minister’s office.
Alleged Palestinian attacker who murdered IDF soldier
This is what this model for Israeli youth wrote yesterday on Facebook (in case he gets a bout of conscience, the screenshot is preserved here):
Despicable murderer: may his name and memory be erased [a curse usually reserved for Hitler and the like]. What? Now he’ll enter an Israeli prison like a great hero! He’ll earn a few college degrees, grow up and join the leaders of all the main Palestinian terror groups. He’ll get out [of prison] to shouts of joy about “freedom fighters” and they’ll make him a mayor!
May the names and memories of all these ghouls [corpse-eaters] be erased! We should burn down these prisons with all of them inside. Not a moment later we should raze Jenin, whose residents boast that they’re a fortress of terror against Israel. Everything that they respect should be burned to ashes and erased.
Killers of children! Remember that if you push a little cat into a corner even he will flash his claws and fight like a tiger. It’s time to bare our claws, my brothers, and pressure this government to stop acting like a stack of cups! They even bandaged his [the killer’s] head. Poor guy, he probably got a scratch when he murdered the boy on the bus while he slept. It’s no joke. I expect from the ass-lickers [witnesses on the bus?] that they take his head off even before the police arrived, so that these cannibals would fear mixing it up with us. This is another one of those moments when I’m ashamed to be Israeli [i.e., that they didn’t kill the attacker]. People of Israel, awaken!
And for any leftist who hates what I wrote here–die already. If only what happened yesterday would happen to someone in your family, so that you would wake up from this fantasy you cling to that divides and weakens my people.
He later added a further “meditation” which was supposed to put the earlier post into some sort of context, but which did nothing of the sort:
My brothers: the things I wrote above were written in anger and great pain. I should clarify that I don’t believe in generalizations. Like when I wrote “leftist,” I meant a particular extreme leftist who wrote me privately offering reasons for the crime like Occupation, etc., etc. I’m no politician nor do I pretend to tell people how they should think. But I would expect some basic sensitivity among human beings rather than a search to justify the murder committed by a family of well-known Jew-killers.
…I’m against violence and extremism. Despite this I maintain that in order to deter the next murder or kidnapping means we have to deal with the murderer in the harshest way possible; and understand that any hesitation on our part will only lead to more murder or kidnapping.
…I have no problem with leftists, I say this in all seriousness…I wrote that about one specific person–extremists like him are the source of hate among brothers that besets our people.
Subliminal uber-Zionist album cover: “Light and Shadow”
Most importantly, I (half-Tunisian and half-Persian) have no problem with Arabs. They’re human beings and most of them dream about peace just like us. But I do have a problem with murderers who announce that their purpose in life is to murder us. From my point of view, no tolerance and the penalty of death for anyone caught [justifying lynching the attacker on the spot].
–Kobi
This is the same Subliminal whose Facebook page features snapshots with many of the most popular rappers in America. A celebrity appointed a goodwill ambassador by the Israeli Ministry of Education. What lesson does that teach young people, hmmm??
Towards the very end of the Forward article you’ll find this sop to left-wing opinion:
Left-wing critics who read more extreme sentiment in Shimoni’s message have pilloried him. Some claimed that the song “We’ve Come To Expel the Darkness” was a thinly veiled call for population transfer. Indeed, Shimoni is often portrayed as the right-wing counterweight to popular Israeli hip-hop band Hadag Nahash, whose members distinguished themselves with their introspective [!] approach to Israeli society and politics.
Being right-wing and pro-Israel has raised Shimoni’s international profile. When Subliminal toured France in 2004, his concerts were met with protests led by French leftists and members of the Arab and Muslim communities.
I can imagine he may have an even worse time of it in France the next time he dares to raise his head there.
H/t to David Sheen the distinguished archiver of Israeli-Jewish racism.
You have a major mistranslation in Subliminal’s message which “cleans up” a part of his message, believe it or not.
The specific section is where you translate “…stack of cups!”. This is incorrect. The word you translated as “cups” is “כוסיות”. Now, because there were no diactrics, you took it to mean “kosiot.” That NOT what Subliminal meant. He meant “koosiot” which translates into “cunties” a polysememic word which is both laudatory a derogatory. “At koosit” (usually) means when addressed to a female “you are sexy and attractive” – literally, “you are a cuntie”. Interestingly, the same word is addressed to males – “Ata kooson” – meaning roughly the same thing, if in a slightly more derogatory.
Conversely, “ata mitnaheg kmo koosit” is directly derogatory – “you are behaving like a cuntie” (i.e. In an effeminate and hysterical manner).
I think describing an active duty IDF member dying at the hands of a Palestinian as an ” innocent victim” is even more curious. Soldiers are killed in wars. That is the nature of war.
While I’m opposed to killings on both sides, the moral calculus is much clearer when civilians are killed. That clearly is a war crime. By the way, far more Palestinian civilians than Israeli civilians have been killed.
Killing a defenseless soldier is a per se violation of the Geneva Convention regardless of the number of civilians killed on either side on the conflict.
Loading...
While you may be an attorney, I’m not sure international criminal law is your speciality. I think it would be difficult to justify this as a war crime given the fact that the murder victim was a soldier. That is not to say that it wasn’t a crime punishable by the maximum penalty. But a war crime?
Loading...
Killing a defenseless soldier is a war crime- the GC could not be more clear. The soldier does not have to be a POW for the protection to kick in. That said, the affiliation of the attacker is also relevant in making the war crime determination- I admit to assuming he was definitely a member of a militant group. If he is just a random Palestinian citizen then it is likely not a war crime, I’d agree with that.
Loading...
@ Ari Greenfield: I still don’t think I buy your reasoning. From my understanding, the boy was not affiliated with any particular terror group. But if he was, then he’d be considered, at least by Palestinians if not the world, as a combatant.
Loading...
” the boy was not affiliated ”
I like that euphemism: “the boy” for the boy-murderer. As I indicated in my own post about this post, the sentiment that blows across this thread is not at all about the horror of the killing but rather an attempt to soften and humanize and divert from that horror.
What a pusillanimous blogger you are, Richard. You ought to embrace your aim in this blog and this post. You need to openly and without sanctimonious prevarications declare this murder was just chickens coming home to roost. No wonder you are shunned by the Abunimah crowd. They sense that hesitation on your part. You haven’t got what it takes to go all the way to where they are going.
Loading...
“the boy” for the boy-murderer.
He was 16 years old. Even 16 yr olds can commit murder. Hell, 5 yr olds can too given the right circumstances. The victim too at 19 was a boy.
the sentiment that blows across this thread is not at all about the horror of the killing
Yup, that’s right. I called the killing horrific. That’s certainly an endorsement of murder (irony alert).
You need to openly and without sanctimonious prevarications declare this murder was just chickens coming home to roost.
I don’t need you to tell me what I ought to do. I can do that just fine for myself. If you have a need to be a ventriloquist why don’t you start a fake leftist blog. It would be just like the Israeli right to engage in such fraud–and you’d have found your true calling.
One thing I can say is that with morons like you defending Israel, its future certainly hangs in the balance.
You’re already moderated. The next crack out of you & you’re gone.
Loading...
Killing a defenseless and unarmed soldier who is a prisoner of war is a war crime. Killing a member of the opposing army who chose to sleep on the bus instead of being alert and on his guard is initiative.
M
Wow. I don’t know if this is more disturbing or disgusting. The young man was killed for no other reason than being born Israeli. That’s racism. He was only 2 weeks in to his compulsory service and just beginning basic training so it would be impossible for him to have been involved in any previous campaigns. The attacker was only 16 years old, perhaps we should evaluate his role models and what they did to actually incite violence rather than worrying about what some random celebrity says on Facebook. Just my 2 cents.
Loading...
@ Ari Greenfield: Way off base. He wasn’t killed because he was “born Israeli.” He was a soldier. A member of an occupying army. Members of occupying armies die all the time whether in Iraq, Afghanistan or Israel. The young victim didn’t deserve to die & certainly not under those circumstances. But racism? What about the racism of the Occupation, which kills far more Palestinian civilians than this single Israeli soldier-victim (or the other Israeli Jewish victims)? Does the IDF choose which Palestinian civilians to choose and spare those who’ve been civilians for a short, rather than short period of time??
Rather than spending your time examining what made the alleged killer kill his victim (which seems obvious to most of the rest of us), you might want to consider how to end ALL the killing through a systematic political solution, one that Israel resists with all its might.
Loading...
I was concentrating on this victim and this killing b/c it was the subject of the article and I was trying to stay on topic. If what I said is off base but it’s not off base to describe the intentional cold blooded slashing of someone’s throat as taking “initiative” then I’m at a loss for words. I understand that neither side is perfect in this mess but that shouldn’t prevent us from calling a spade a spade, no matter who the perp is. I completely agree with your last remark- a solution to end ALL the killing needs to be reached, sooner rather than later.
Loading...
[comment deleted as it violation comment rules, being off-topic. If I wanted a debate about whether the Occupation is legal or illegal I’d have initiated it myself. But I didn’t.]
Loading...
Richard.
You wrote, ‘Members of occupying armies die all the time whether in Iraq, Afghanistan or Israel.’
First. The Allied occupation armies in Occupied Germany and Japan didn’t die all the time.
Finally. Is violent resistance to a legal occupation to be condoned?
Loading...
@ Pip
correction, illegal occuption. 4th Geneva convention. article 49. Also, read the UNGA Resolution A/RES/3246 (XXIX; 29 November 1974), UNGA Resolution A/RES/33/24 (29 November 1978), UNGA Resolution A/RES/34/44 (23 November 1979), UNGA Resolution A/RES/35/35 (14 November 1980), UNGA Resolution A/RES/36/9 (28 October 1981), UNGA Resolution A/RES/3246 (XXIX) of 29 November 1974 as a starter to see how the free world views the right to resist with arms.
Loading...
@ Pip: The reason the occupying armies in Germany & Japan didn’t die is that Germany & Japan had surrendered. Before they surrendered millions of Allied soldiers did die. I did not mean “occupying army” in the sense of an army that occupies a defeated power. I meant “occupying” in the sense of an army invading an occupying a nation that is not subdued as in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.
Loading...
Many, if not most, Iraqis initially welcomed their ‘liberation’ by the American ‘occupiers’. Only later on did Sunnis and warlords take up arms against the United States armed forces in Iraq.
Many Afghans also welcomed the defeat of their Taliban overlords by the Americans.
In 1967, shortly after the occupation of the West Bank, Israel made a genuine effort to give West Bank Palestinians an autonomy or a ‘Statelet’. There were no takers. The West Bankers preferred a return to Jordanian rule to rather than national independence.
Things are rarely black and white.
Loading...
@ Pip: Things may rarely be black & white, but your summation of history leaves much to be desired. Many Americans knew in advance that the U.S. invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, especially if prolonged as they have been, would end in disaster as they have. BTW, everyone in Iraq, Shiites, Sunni, etc. has taken up arms against the U.S. & now the central government. Our invasion helped cause this bloodshed.
Israel did not make a “genuine” effort to offer Palestinians anything they wanted. They definitely did not want “autonomy” or a “statelet.” WHich is why the “effort” wasn’t “genuine.” If Israel ever offered anything close to what the Palestinians genuinely did want, there would be takers.
Please don’t deform the historical record.
Loading...
The historical record is clear. What have Haaretz and I deformed?
@ Pup: The historical record IS clear. It’s your interpretation of it that’s not.
Loading...
Wait. the murder of a sleeping soldier in a public bus is not worthy of a post. BUT the rant of an angry punk who is fuming ABOUT the murder is worthy of the post. How does this ‘Promote Israeli democracy’? It only makes someone like me who hates right wing fascists think that there is truth in that you so called ‘peace activist’ are no less crazy then they are but just from supposedly the other side. I think you forgot why you started this journey in the first place.
It doesn’t promote Israeli democracy. It only serves to erode the State of Israel like the drip..drip..drip of a water torture or the monotonous repetition of mantra.
BTW. If you think Richard is a democrat, than watch what happens when a pro-Israeli posts a comment that transgresses Richard’s ‘Animal Farm’ style Comment Rules.
While people may not always be in agreement with how the comment rules are enforced (or with some the rules in general), I will always believe Richard is free to implement the policy at his discretion as this is his private website. I also respect that he is willing to engage in discussions w/ many of his readers.
True. But this is a private blog that pretends to be staunch and implacable upholder of democratic principle. The intention is noble, but the implementation is highly eccentric, petulant and puzzlingly selective. Mr. Tikkun Olam asserts his goals and then applies an uneven and indecipherable moderation policy. Not that I mind one way or another. I’m not a regular reader on this blog. It makes me almost physically sick to read the type of “commentary” that takes place here and I won’t even try to describe what it feels like to engage in a conversation with Richard. The banality and mediocrity of his “passion for justice” famish the mind. I just find this type of cognitive dissonance incomprehensible especially when the tone of the blog is always so smug and virtuous.
@ Noga: I warn you that comments must be substantive. Snark is not substantive. Nor is it witty or funny. Whining as you do incessantly is not entertaining and wears thin very quickly.
And if my blog “almost” makes you physically sick I urge you to head straight for the doctor and shut down your computer immediately.
(The Tablet) – Listening to all of his music at once can feel like taking in a full DVD box set of after-school specials, with a broad set of subjects: hope, patriotism, strength, unity, order, faith, and peace. There is no mention of hatred, racism, Islamophobia, Israeli occupation, or other touchstones of Israeli radicalism. The image of violence the sine qua non for any self-respecting extremistis unequivocally presented in a negative light and shunned rather than sanctioned by his music. “When a song makes a left-wing stance they call it protest,” says Arye Avitan (aka “Tchulu”), a veteran music producer who has mentored many young rappers including Subliminal. “But when it suggests something remotely right-wing, they immediately call it fascism.”
Netanyahu said: “If we want real peace, the incitement has to stop.” So very true!
In western USA, the government re-introduced wolves (which were considered “endangered”). Then the ranchers got busy arranging to have the wolves shot (because they endangered the livestock).
In Israel’s occupied territories, the government re-introduced Jewish-Israelis (which were considered “endangered”). Then these people, not actually wolves but often acting like wolves, killing and injuring the native people, and “inciting” to the same, etc., were — not shot — but augmented, increasing the danger to the native people (not actually “livestock”).
From this I conclude that the State of Israel does not regard Israeli-Jewish settlers as “wolves” nor does it regard the Palestinian people as “livestock” (or at least, not as VALUABLE “livestock”).
Celebrities making dumb and offensive remarks is becoming an almost daily occurrence in the era of social media, see Alec Baldwin less than 24 hours ago (note: In no way does this excuse the behavior).
Everyone flinches at the comparisons of Zionist policies with National Socialist policies, though there are many. Too bad, the Israeli rapper says “People of Israel, Awake!” The German bad guys said “Deutschland Erwachen!” virtually the same clarion call (..to violence.) Sure, it’s just words but…
Incitement will only get more bloodshed, from both sides. Peace Now!
The soldier was named as 18-year-old Pvt. Eden Atias, a resident of Upper Nazareth. He was on his way back to his base and was stabbed to death inside a bus at the Afula bus station. Thousands of mourners attended the funeral. Atias’s father, who is currently in prison, was brought to the funeral in his prison uniform accompanied by Prisons Service guards.
The attacker is a 16-year-old Palestinian from the Jenin area, according to security services. The Prisons Service stated after the killing that two of his cousins are in prison in Israel. One of them, Muhammed Juwadra [15 years old in 2003], is serving three life sentences for the murder of Cartiso Radikov and Amos Mantiu, a Bezeq employee shot dead in the village of Baka al- Gharbiya in 2003 during the second intifada. The other cousin is serving a 12-year-sentence for attempted murder.
In response to the stabbing, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said peace cannot occur if this type of Palestinian incitement continues.
“Subliminal’s being the son of Jewish refugees is at the core of his hard-line politics. “In Tunisia, my father grew up with his family locking all the doors and windows whenever performing a Jewish ceremony — out of fear of attacks.” Both parents, he says, “ran for their lives” to Israel, where they spent decades recovering from the persecution they had faced.” (wiki)
If anybody doubts the truth of this statement I urge them to read Albert Memmi’s essay:
Who is an Arab Jew? Albert Memmi (1975)
“As to the pre-colonial period, the collective memory of Tunisian Jewry leaves no doubt. It is enough to cite a few narratives and tales relating to that period: it was a gloomy one. The Jewish communities lived in the shadow of history, under arbitrary rule and the fear of all-powerful monarchs whose decisions could not be rescinded or even questioned. It can be said that everybody was governed by these absolute rulers: the sultans, beys and deys. But the Jews were at the mercy not only of the monarch but also of the man in the street. My grandfather still wore the obligatory and discriminatory Jewish garb, and in his time every Jew might expect to be hit on the head by any Moslem whom he happened to pass. This pleasant ritual even had a name – the chtaka; and with it went a sacramental formula which I have forgotten. A French orientalist once replied to me at a meeting: “In Islamic lands the Christians were no better off!” This is true – so what? This is a double-edged argument: it signifies, in effect, that no member of a minority lived in peace and dignity in countries with an Arab majority! Yet there was a marked difference all the same: the Christians were, as a rule, foreigners and as such protected by their mother-countries. If a Barbary pirate or an emir wanted to enslave a missionary, he had to take into account the government of the missionary’s land of origin – perhaps even the Vatican or the Order of the Knights of Malta. But no one came to the rescue of the Jews, because the Jews were natives and therefore victims of the will of “their” rulers. Never, I repeat, never – with the possible exception of two or three very specific intervals such as the Andalusian, and not even then – did the Jews in Arab lands live in other than a humiliated state, vulnerable and periodically mistreated and murdered, so that they should clearly remember their place”
Richard referenced Kahane and the rhetoric of Nuremberg in the context of Subliminal’s outburst. It might be prudential to provide a more appropriate historical context to the feeling is he voicing here. You know, the facts that everyone around this blog like to forget or pretend that they do not really matter.
@ Noga: That’s wonderful. Subliminal recounts the alleged anti-Semitism his family faced in Tunisia where, I might add, they were not killed and were eventually permitted to emigrate; whence they came to Israel where he now advocates not harassing or intimidating Palestinians (as Tunisian Muslims did to the local Jews), but outright mass murder. That’s progress!
The same holds true for the quotation from Memmi: was there anti-Semitism in Arab lands? You bet. Were there Holocausts? No. Was there genocide? No. Now we move to Israel where there is…what…Islamophobia, hate, violence, intolerance. Zionism has brought substantial improvement to the region, hasn’t it?
The comment rules insist that you provide short quotations. This quotation is not short. Respect the rules.
He’s Israel’s most famous rapper — and with his One Shekel Festival is making music available to disadvantaged Jews and Arabs.
The musician’s ideological stance was sharpened around 10 years ago by way of a much-publicised vendetta with the right-wing rapper Subliminal. Streett, munching his big green salad, has little time for his old rival. “Subliminal is a businessman, not a musician. He made big Zionist statements, but he was only aiming for sales.”
For those who talk abut the need of evaluation of ones “role model”, I believe should first make the distinction between the oppressed and the oppressor. There is absolutely NO justification for the murder of the young soldier! However I believe it is important to look deeper into the EXTREMELY NEGATIVE effects of being oppressed. The 16 year old Palestinian murderer is simply a product of ruthless prolonged military occupation, that to this day directly deteriorates many Palestinians psychological stability. The occupation has, and continues to inhumanly test the patience of Palestinians. I think an interesting question would be – if this occupation/oppression of Palestinians ended 10 years ago, would this have occurred?
You can give that thought..
RIP Eden Attlas
I was about to excoriate you for accusing me of mistranslation, but I see you apologized here. In fact, this is an accurate translation of the original and it says precisely what my headline & translation says:
We should burn down these prisons with all of them inside. Not a moment later we should raze Jenin, whose residents boast that they’re a fortress of terror against Israel. Everything that they respect should be burned to ashes and erased.
As for inciting hatred, I think you need to speak with Subliminal about that. He wrote the hate and published it. I merely translated it into English. Don’t blame the translator, blame the original author.
God bless him for having the courage and moral clarity to say what needs to be said!! We need more young and energetic leaders like him who are not afraid to speak about what needs to be done to stop this madness from our evil enemies!!
[comment deleted–racism is prohibited per the comment rules. Read & respect them if you wish to comment here. You are now moderated. If you try to publish another similar type of comment (that is racist) you will be banned.]
I am feeling that your humanity supports the darkness this world experiences. Hate is a serious commitment, in most ways more than love and requires a great deal of respect. There’s no stereotypical peace coming from these two… The Israeli belongs there, it’s his and hers and mine. The Arab energy is the same everywhere it goes, Cannot be elevated to Kiddusha . Its
‘s what it is and Subliminal speaks from truth. They have realities but no authorities ! Your input is meaningless, it’s humanism and also has no authority..Leave us to do what will happen either way, Yalla !
@ Ari Avi: Yours is an extraordinary comment. You conceded that Subliminal’s path is the path of Hate. And that you despise “humanity” and “love.” For that you will burn in Hell. I note that your fake e mail address says it all: lech l’sheol.” Go to Hell. Go you will.
“Leave us to what what will happen either way.” That’s is frightening beyond belief & the reason you must not be allowed to pursue the path of destruction you choose.
Thanks for visiting Tikun Olam. It breaks exclusive stories on Israel-Palestine. It offers news often banned by the Israeli military censor or a judicial gag order. Please subscribe to new posts–and tell all your friends!
Support my unique work with a tax-deductible donation to Media Alliance, my fiscal sponsor.
Be a Mensch: Support Tikun Olam!
Thanks for visiting Tikun Olam. It breaks exclusive stories on Israel-Palestine, often not yet published anywhere, including Israel. Please subscribe to new posts–and tell all your friends!
Support my unique work with a tax-deductible donation to Media Alliance, my fiscal sponsor.
So no post about the murder itself and the hate that caused
it. Wow.
You have a major mistranslation in Subliminal’s message which “cleans up” a part of his message, believe it or not.
The specific section is where you translate “…stack of cups!”. This is incorrect. The word you translated as “cups” is “כוסיות”. Now, because there were no diactrics, you took it to mean “kosiot.” That NOT what Subliminal meant. He meant “koosiot” which translates into “cunties” a polysememic word which is both laudatory a derogatory. “At koosit” (usually) means when addressed to a female “you are sexy and attractive” – literally, “you are a cuntie”. Interestingly, the same word is addressed to males – “Ata kooson” – meaning roughly the same thing, if in a slightly more derogatory.
Conversely, “ata mitnaheg kmo koosit” is directly derogatory – “you are behaving like a cuntie” (i.e. In an effeminate and hysterical manner).
Marc
I’m clearly not up on Hebrew slang, especially of the dirty variety. Thanks for the correction!
Richard. If you visit Israel for only a brief stay, than you’d soon be up on Israeli slang.
Why Richard posts a picture of the ‘alleged attacker’, while failing to post a picture of the innocent victim is curious.
http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Israeli-stabbed-critically-wounded-in-suspected-terror-attack-in-Afula-331572
I think describing an active duty IDF member dying at the hands of a Palestinian as an ” innocent victim” is even more curious. Soldiers are killed in wars. That is the nature of war.
@ToivoS
What a terrible comment! Killing a defenseless and unarmed soldier is actually a war crime.
While I’m opposed to killings on both sides, the moral calculus is much clearer when civilians are killed. That clearly is a war crime. By the way, far more Palestinian civilians than Israeli civilians have been killed.
Killing a defenseless soldier is a per se violation of the Geneva Convention regardless of the number of civilians killed on either side on the conflict.
While you may be an attorney, I’m not sure international criminal law is your speciality. I think it would be difficult to justify this as a war crime given the fact that the murder victim was a soldier. That is not to say that it wasn’t a crime punishable by the maximum penalty. But a war crime?
Killing a defenseless soldier is a war crime- the GC could not be more clear. The soldier does not have to be a POW for the protection to kick in. That said, the affiliation of the attacker is also relevant in making the war crime determination- I admit to assuming he was definitely a member of a militant group. If he is just a random Palestinian citizen then it is likely not a war crime, I’d agree with that.
@ Ari Greenfield: I still don’t think I buy your reasoning. From my understanding, the boy was not affiliated with any particular terror group. But if he was, then he’d be considered, at least by Palestinians if not the world, as a combatant.
” the boy was not affiliated ”
I like that euphemism: “the boy” for the boy-murderer. As I indicated in my own post about this post, the sentiment that blows across this thread is not at all about the horror of the killing but rather an attempt to soften and humanize and divert from that horror.
What a pusillanimous blogger you are, Richard. You ought to embrace your aim in this blog and this post. You need to openly and without sanctimonious prevarications declare this murder was just chickens coming home to roost. No wonder you are shunned by the Abunimah crowd. They sense that hesitation on your part. You haven’t got what it takes to go all the way to where they are going.
He was 16 years old. Even 16 yr olds can commit murder. Hell, 5 yr olds can too given the right circumstances. The victim too at 19 was a boy.
Yup, that’s right. I called the killing horrific. That’s certainly an endorsement of murder (irony alert).
I don’t need you to tell me what I ought to do. I can do that just fine for myself. If you have a need to be a ventriloquist why don’t you start a fake leftist blog. It would be just like the Israeli right to engage in such fraud–and you’d have found your true calling.
One thing I can say is that with morons like you defending Israel, its future certainly hangs in the balance.
You’re already moderated. The next crack out of you & you’re gone.
Killing a defenseless and unarmed soldier who is a prisoner of war is a war crime. Killing a member of the opposing army who chose to sleep on the bus instead of being alert and on his guard is initiative.
M
@Marc
Wow. I don’t know if this is more disturbing or disgusting. The young man was killed for no other reason than being born Israeli. That’s racism. He was only 2 weeks in to his compulsory service and just beginning basic training so it would be impossible for him to have been involved in any previous campaigns. The attacker was only 16 years old, perhaps we should evaluate his role models and what they did to actually incite violence rather than worrying about what some random celebrity says on Facebook. Just my 2 cents.
@ Ari Greenfield: Way off base. He wasn’t killed because he was “born Israeli.” He was a soldier. A member of an occupying army. Members of occupying armies die all the time whether in Iraq, Afghanistan or Israel. The young victim didn’t deserve to die & certainly not under those circumstances. But racism? What about the racism of the Occupation, which kills far more Palestinian civilians than this single Israeli soldier-victim (or the other Israeli Jewish victims)? Does the IDF choose which Palestinian civilians to choose and spare those who’ve been civilians for a short, rather than short period of time??
Rather than spending your time examining what made the alleged killer kill his victim (which seems obvious to most of the rest of us), you might want to consider how to end ALL the killing through a systematic political solution, one that Israel resists with all its might.
I was concentrating on this victim and this killing b/c it was the subject of the article and I was trying to stay on topic. If what I said is off base but it’s not off base to describe the intentional cold blooded slashing of someone’s throat as taking “initiative” then I’m at a loss for words. I understand that neither side is perfect in this mess but that shouldn’t prevent us from calling a spade a spade, no matter who the perp is. I completely agree with your last remark- a solution to end ALL the killing needs to be reached, sooner rather than later.
[comment deleted as it violation comment rules, being off-topic. If I wanted a debate about whether the Occupation is legal or illegal I’d have initiated it myself. But I didn’t.]
Richard.
You wrote, ‘Members of occupying armies die all the time whether in Iraq, Afghanistan or Israel.’
First. The Allied occupation armies in Occupied Germany and Japan didn’t die all the time.
Finally. Is violent resistance to a legal occupation to be condoned?
@ Pip
correction, illegal occuption. 4th Geneva convention. article 49. Also, read the UNGA Resolution A/RES/3246 (XXIX; 29 November 1974), UNGA Resolution A/RES/33/24 (29 November 1978), UNGA Resolution A/RES/34/44 (23 November 1979), UNGA Resolution A/RES/35/35 (14 November 1980), UNGA Resolution A/RES/36/9 (28 October 1981), UNGA Resolution A/RES/3246 (XXIX) of 29 November 1974 as a starter to see how the free world views the right to resist with arms.
@ Pip: The reason the occupying armies in Germany & Japan didn’t die is that Germany & Japan had surrendered. Before they surrendered millions of Allied soldiers did die. I did not mean “occupying army” in the sense of an army that occupies a defeated power. I meant “occupying” in the sense of an army invading an occupying a nation that is not subdued as in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.
Many, if not most, Iraqis initially welcomed their ‘liberation’ by the American ‘occupiers’. Only later on did Sunnis and warlords take up arms against the United States armed forces in Iraq.
Many Afghans also welcomed the defeat of their Taliban overlords by the Americans.
In 1967, shortly after the occupation of the West Bank, Israel made a genuine effort to give West Bank Palestinians an autonomy or a ‘Statelet’. There were no takers. The West Bankers preferred a return to Jordanian rule to rather than national independence.
Things are rarely black and white.
@ Pip: Things may rarely be black & white, but your summation of history leaves much to be desired. Many Americans knew in advance that the U.S. invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, especially if prolonged as they have been, would end in disaster as they have. BTW, everyone in Iraq, Shiites, Sunni, etc. has taken up arms against the U.S. & now the central government. Our invasion helped cause this bloodshed.
Israel did not make a “genuine” effort to offer Palestinians anything they wanted. They definitely did not want “autonomy” or a “statelet.” WHich is why the “effort” wasn’t “genuine.” If Israel ever offered anything close to what the Palestinians genuinely did want, there would be takers.
Please don’t deform the historical record.
The historical record is clear. What have Haaretz and I deformed?
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/the-jordanian-option-the-plan-that-refuses-to-die-1.226164
http://www.questia.com/library/journal/1P3-6969302/coming-back-full-circle-the-palestinian-option-in
@ Pup: The historical record IS clear. It’s your interpretation of it that’s not.
Wait. the murder of a sleeping soldier in a public bus is not worthy of a post. BUT the rant of an angry punk who is fuming ABOUT the murder is worthy of the post. How does this ‘Promote Israeli democracy’? It only makes someone like me who hates right wing fascists think that there is truth in that you so called ‘peace activist’ are no less crazy then they are but just from supposedly the other side. I think you forgot why you started this journey in the first place.
@Jouni
How does this ‘‘Promote Israeli democracy’?
It doesn’t promote Israeli democracy. It only serves to erode the State of Israel like the drip..drip..drip of a water torture or the monotonous repetition of mantra.
BTW. If you think Richard is a democrat, than watch what happens when a pro-Israeli posts a comment that transgresses Richard’s ‘Animal Farm’ style Comment Rules.
@Pip
While people may not always be in agreement with how the comment rules are enforced (or with some the rules in general), I will always believe Richard is free to implement the policy at his discretion as this is his private website. I also respect that he is willing to engage in discussions w/ many of his readers.
True. But this is a private blog that pretends to be staunch and implacable upholder of democratic principle. The intention is noble, but the implementation is highly eccentric, petulant and puzzlingly selective. Mr. Tikkun Olam asserts his goals and then applies an uneven and indecipherable moderation policy. Not that I mind one way or another. I’m not a regular reader on this blog. It makes me almost physically sick to read the type of “commentary” that takes place here and I won’t even try to describe what it feels like to engage in a conversation with Richard. The banality and mediocrity of his “passion for justice” famish the mind. I just find this type of cognitive dissonance incomprehensible especially when the tone of the blog is always so smug and virtuous.
Hubris
@ Noga: I warn you that comments must be substantive. Snark is not substantive. Nor is it witty or funny. Whining as you do incessantly is not entertaining and wears thin very quickly.
And if my blog “almost” makes you physically sick I urge you to head straight for the doctor and shut down your computer immediately.
@ Pip: Stop whining. It’s unbecoming.
Netanyahu said: “If we want real peace, the incitement has to stop.” So very true!
In western USA, the government re-introduced wolves (which were considered “endangered”). Then the ranchers got busy arranging to have the wolves shot (because they endangered the livestock).
In Israel’s occupied territories, the government re-introduced Jewish-Israelis (which were considered “endangered”). Then these people, not actually wolves but often acting like wolves, killing and injuring the native people, and “inciting” to the same, etc., were — not shot — but augmented, increasing the danger to the native people (not actually “livestock”).
From this I conclude that the State of Israel does not regard Israeli-Jewish settlers as “wolves” nor does it regard the Palestinian people as “livestock” (or at least, not as VALUABLE “livestock”).
You can see a lot by just opening your eyes.
@Pabel
You’ve put a lot of thought into your analogy. That’s sad and frightening.
Celebrities making dumb and offensive remarks is becoming an almost daily occurrence in the era of social media, see Alec Baldwin less than 24 hours ago (note: In no way does this excuse the behavior).
Everyone flinches at the comparisons of Zionist policies with National Socialist policies, though there are many. Too bad, the Israeli rapper says “People of Israel, Awake!” The German bad guys said “Deutschland Erwachen!” virtually the same clarion call (..to violence.) Sure, it’s just words but…
Subliminal’s rant does have racialist overtones that remind one of both Kahane & some of the rhetoric of Nuremberg.
Incitement will only get more bloodshed, from both sides. Peace Now!
Subliminal worked with the Palestinian hip hop pioneers DAM, who have observed that Israeli hip hop tends to be hyper nationalistic. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4039399.stm
@ Ben Doherty: Subliminal discovered the Israeli Palestinian hip hop artist, Tamer Nafar. But they had a falling out over political differences.
“Subliminal’s being the son of Jewish refugees is at the core of his hard-line politics. “In Tunisia, my father grew up with his family locking all the doors and windows whenever performing a Jewish ceremony — out of fear of attacks.” Both parents, he says, “ran for their lives” to Israel, where they spent decades recovering from the persecution they had faced.” (wiki)
If anybody doubts the truth of this statement I urge them to read Albert Memmi’s essay:
Who is an Arab Jew? Albert Memmi (1975)
“As to the pre-colonial period, the collective memory of Tunisian Jewry leaves no doubt. It is enough to cite a few narratives and tales relating to that period: it was a gloomy one. The Jewish communities lived in the shadow of history, under arbitrary rule and the fear of all-powerful monarchs whose decisions could not be rescinded or even questioned. It can be said that everybody was governed by these absolute rulers: the sultans, beys and deys. But the Jews were at the mercy not only of the monarch but also of the man in the street. My grandfather still wore the obligatory and discriminatory Jewish garb, and in his time every Jew might expect to be hit on the head by any Moslem whom he happened to pass. This pleasant ritual even had a name – the chtaka; and with it went a sacramental formula which I have forgotten. A French orientalist once replied to me at a meeting: “In Islamic lands the Christians were no better off!” This is true – so what? This is a double-edged argument: it signifies, in effect, that no member of a minority lived in peace and dignity in countries with an Arab majority! Yet there was a marked difference all the same: the Christians were, as a rule, foreigners and as such protected by their mother-countries. If a Barbary pirate or an emir wanted to enslave a missionary, he had to take into account the government of the missionary’s land of origin – perhaps even the Vatican or the Order of the Knights of Malta. But no one came to the rescue of the Jews, because the Jews were natives and therefore victims of the will of “their” rulers. Never, I repeat, never – with the possible exception of two or three very specific intervals such as the Andalusian, and not even then – did the Jews in Arab lands live in other than a humiliated state, vulnerable and periodically mistreated and murdered, so that they should clearly remember their place”
http://www.sullivan-county.com/x/aj1.htmSince
Richard referenced Kahane and the rhetoric of Nuremberg in the context of Subliminal’s outburst. It might be prudential to provide a more appropriate historical context to the feeling is he voicing here. You know, the facts that everyone around this blog like to forget or pretend that they do not really matter.
@ Noga: That’s wonderful. Subliminal recounts the alleged anti-Semitism his family faced in Tunisia where, I might add, they were not killed and were eventually permitted to emigrate; whence they came to Israel where he now advocates not harassing or intimidating Palestinians (as Tunisian Muslims did to the local Jews), but outright mass murder. That’s progress!
The same holds true for the quotation from Memmi: was there anti-Semitism in Arab lands? You bet. Were there Holocausts? No. Was there genocide? No. Now we move to Israel where there is…what…Islamophobia, hate, violence, intolerance. Zionism has brought substantial improvement to the region, hasn’t it?
The comment rules insist that you provide short quotations. This quotation is not short. Respect the rules.
[comment deleted for being off-topic, a comment rule violation]
Sha’anan Streett uses rap to promote a peacenik message.
For those who talk abut the need of evaluation of ones “role model”, I believe should first make the distinction between the oppressed and the oppressor. There is absolutely NO justification for the murder of the young soldier! However I believe it is important to look deeper into the EXTREMELY NEGATIVE effects of being oppressed. The 16 year old Palestinian murderer is simply a product of ruthless prolonged military occupation, that to this day directly deteriorates many Palestinians psychological stability. The occupation has, and continues to inhumanly test the patience of Palestinians. I think an interesting question would be – if this occupation/oppression of Palestinians ended 10 years ago, would this have occurred?
You can give that thought..
RIP Eden Attlas
In the original hebrew text it is not written That One should burn palestinians alive – but one should burn the empty houses of Child murderer !!!
So WHY are u inciting more hatred with a wrong translation ???
I was about to excoriate you for accusing me of mistranslation, but I see you apologized here. In fact, this is an accurate translation of the original and it says precisely what my headline & translation says:
As for inciting hatred, I think you need to speak with Subliminal about that. He wrote the hate and published it. I merely translated it into English. Don’t blame the translator, blame the original author.
I’m sorry for Reading the Originaltext not correctly – ….
God bless him for having the courage and moral clarity to say what needs to be said!! We need more young and energetic leaders like him who are not afraid to speak about what needs to be done to stop this madness from our evil enemies!!
@ Yehudah: Every once in a while I let through a comment from a red-blooded Israeli Jewish racist so we know what we’re dealing with–clinically.
[comment deleted–racism is prohibited per the comment rules. Read & respect them if you wish to comment here. You are now moderated. If you try to publish another similar type of comment (that is racist) you will be banned.]
I am feeling that your humanity supports the darkness this world experiences. Hate is a serious commitment, in most ways more than love and requires a great deal of respect. There’s no stereotypical peace coming from these two… The Israeli belongs there, it’s his and hers and mine. The Arab energy is the same everywhere it goes, Cannot be elevated to Kiddusha . Its
‘s what it is and Subliminal speaks from truth. They have realities but no authorities ! Your input is meaningless, it’s humanism and also has no authority..Leave us to do what will happen either way, Yalla !
@ Ari Avi: Yours is an extraordinary comment. You conceded that Subliminal’s path is the path of Hate. And that you despise “humanity” and “love.” For that you will burn in Hell. I note that your fake e mail address says it all: lech l’sheol.” Go to Hell. Go you will.
“Leave us to what what will happen either way.” That’s is frightening beyond belief & the reason you must not be allowed to pursue the path of destruction you choose.