The Israeli defense ministry was dealt a sharp blow by an Israeli judge who found against the State’s lawyers (Hebrew and English) who argued that a Bedouin, whose hand was severed by an unexploded IDF cluster bomb, was at fault because he did not use a map to traverse a firing range that had no markings or fencing indicating what it was. It was on the Shifta army base and adjacent to the Negev land where his tribe resided.
The man, Abu Jlidan (his name is misspelled in the Haaretz article), entered the firing area because his camels had strayed and he sought to find them. The State, on the other hand, claimed he did so in order to “steal” (the State’s words, not mine) discarded metal. As a result of his injuries, incurred in 2003, the man has scars on every part of his body and lost his hand. He spent six weeks in intensive care at Soroka Hospital.
A judge rejected the state’s claim regarding why Abu Jlidan was in the firing area. Likewise, he rejected the defense’s argument blaming Jlidan for his injuries. He found that despite the fact that the IDF knew that Bedouin were commonly found in this dangerous area, nothing was done to warn them of the danger. He determined the victim was owed $200,000 by the IDF and Israel Land Authority for his injuries. He found the IDF entirely at fault.
It’s safe to say that were the victim Jewish, the State would’ve taken a more cooperative approach to this case.
The defense ministry has not yet decided whether to appeal the judge’s ruling.
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$200,000 isn’t very much money for having been so badly maimed. Any idea why the award was so small?
My guess is that an Israeli court values the earning capacity of a Bedouin pretty low, hence the low award.
According to the link he received compensation to the sum of $236000 for pain suffering and lost earnings.
In the Israeli system, unlike the USA, no one, Jewish or otherwise, ever gets settlements for personal injury in the millions.
Lost earning capacity is based on the injured’s earnings over the period prior to the injury. Assuming for argument’s sake the minimum wage, the sum is good for about 15 years of income. The article doesn’t mention his age.
When the courts finally do something right, even in your eyes, why taint it by cynicism and hints of what might have been had the injured been Jewish? Can you find an incidence of an injured Jewish Israeli with similar injuries receiving significantly different compensation? I’m sure you can’t, ‘cos there ain’t!
Excuse me for asking. I was a court clerk in New York State Supreme Court for over 10 years, not familiar with Israeli law. In my court, this award would be unacceptably low.
There is – alas – a general legal practice in Israel (and it applies to Jews, Arabs and other pretty equally) of awarding very low settlement payments and/or costs – very often not reflecting the true magnitude of loss or expense.
M
entered the firing area because his camels had strayed and he sought to find them – yeah right.
If you really believe this, it only shows how little you know about Israel.
Beduins are all over the IDF’s firing ranges in the Negev, riding on ATVs mules, quickly pickup every unexploded shell, bullet case or part of a metal target used for firing practice they can put their hands on. Tungsten-made AP shells usually stay in one piece and worth a lot.
If you do a quick search on Fresh forum (which you visited more than once in the past), you could easily find photos of these guys, racing next to the tanks, quickly picking up every piece of metal they can find next to the target, minutes after it was hit.
Most probably the man picked up a dud which blew his hand off.
Reminds me of the story of a bugler who fell of a roof and sued the house’s owner.
@Nimrod: The problem with what you’re claiming is that this is precisely the argument offered by the State, which the judge explicitly rejected. So we have two choices: to accept the judgement of the judge who heard the evidence; or you who spreads rank prejudiced gossip passing for truth. This is a tough one, but reluctantly, I’ll side with the judge on this one.
There is further evidence of racism in your bigoted comment: Bedouins have exploited the natural environment for hundreds or thousands of years. Of course if Israel puts a military base in the middle of their lands they will take advantage of that as well. Not to mention the poverty that Israel enforces of the Bedouins, the dispossession from the native homelands. You inflict this suffering on them & then are shocked that they would harvest metal scraps from IDF bases. What utter hypocrisy!
If you consider the Bedouins human beings worthy of the respect that human beings deserve, you will be outraged by the IDF’s callous indifference to their welfare & denounce such injuries. If you don’t & instead blame the victims, we will know that it is you who are a brutal Israeli Jew who represents the lowest of your type (though thankfully not all are like you).
Yuval is actually right.
look here http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/294/648.html and here http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/283/338.html
In my opinion the state will appeal the verdict and win.
@ Elad R
Who’s Yuval ? So you know Nimrod’s real name ? One of your teammates at that Hasbara Central Oui posted ?
@Deir Yassin: There’s clearly funny business/coordination going on between at least these two, if not others. Rather sloppy error on Elad R’s part. He may be demoted…
Funny, you have anything of substance to say about the two articles that clearly indicate there is a real problem surrounding Bedouins who risk their life’s going into military firing areas to steal metals ?
Didn’t think so.
The problem is not that of the Bedouin, but of the IDF which places the materials there to begin with. When you create a public nuisance it is your fault if someone dies or is injured as a result. It isn’t the victim’s fault, esp if you do nothing to mitigate the danger. Don’t blame the victim!
Richard, these areas are military training grounds, and are not public areas. they are marked with signs and fences (which also get stolen by metal collectors).
The IDF does not place a 40 ton target in the middle of a Bedouin village or any where near it. It’s the Bedouins that arrive on pickup trucks and ATVs and quickly pick up any tungsten projectile and unexploded shell minutes after it was fired, risking their lives in the process.
No, these are not victims, and the fact that they steal from the IDF (meaning, from Israel’s tax payers), does not make them any less of thieves.
What’s astonishing is that you didn’t even bother to read the linked article. It states that the Bedouins live adjacent to the firing range. That makes the land residential land abutting a military base. This in no way absolves the military of responsibility for injuries occurring there. Again, there were no signs, no fences. It’s not the Bedouins’ responsibility to maintain these. It’s the IDF responsibility.
You’re now done arguing this poor Bedouin was responsible for crippling himself. No further comments in this thread fr you. Move on.
Actually, the IDF placed a live fire range right next to an area inhabited by Bedouin, including women and children. They live right next door to it. They don’t need to drive through in pick up trucks. They just walk right next door & they’re on the firing range, which has no fence nor signs marking it as such.
“Stealing” from the Israeli taxpayer? First, the injured man didn’t steal from anyone. He was gathering his camels. If you can prove he did otherwise do so. Otherwise shut up. I think I banned you earlier. I don’t know how you got back into the conversation. But you’re sorely trying my patience and being an ass to boot. You’re moderated & the next racist comment from you will get you banned (again).
The hasbara narrative on this incident is now closed. Anyone who posts another comment in this thread claiming the victim was a thief or deserved what he got, or that the State’s claim is correct or be vindicated on appeal will be moderated or banned. Do I make myself understood?
You have no idea what you are talking about
Fire zone is an area assigned by the state to the army, so the army could practice. The size of the fire zone could be a few meters (shooting range devices, for example) to thousands of square miles. Since the army practice using live ammunition, entrance to these areas is prohibited unless authorized and coordinated by military authorities. Large fire areas will be marked with signs on the roads leading to them, small one will be – usually – fenced in.
The state will appeal the verdict and will most likely win.
“Fire zone” is also a convenient term being used by the IOF to demolish Bedouin villages in the Negev. How many firing zones do you need?
I don’t know enough about all “fire-zones”, but this specific one is part and parcel of one of Israel’s biggest training bases where large scale manoevers (how do u spell that?) take place regularly. It’s been around for decades, and is certainly not there for political reasons.
At for Bedouin land – it’s not straightforward, as by definition the Bedouin are nomads, thus “their” land is not, cannot, and has never been deliniated. Like all the parties to the conflict, they claim “ancestral” lands, which is virtually impossible to prove either way
Would this by any chance be a part of your tirade?
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/261051
I guess Israel needs to be reminded that the Bedouin have lived in the Negev for 7,000 years. A bit longer than it has been part of Israel.
One of my comment rules is not to repeat yourself. You’ve twice claimed the State would win on appeal offering no evidence for the claim. Further, I don’t believe you’re a lawyer or judge & have no basis to make such claims except based on your own prejudices. Do NOT repeat yrself, esp in making such unsupported claims.
If the State does win on appeal, it will only further support the options f Israel as a racist, inhumane state.
You should use google maps and look at the location of Shivta 30.880865,34.630487 then look at the location of the adjacent Bedouin village you were reporting about which is located 1.5 KM north north west from shivta at 30.888157,34.624693. The training areas are south east from shivta base, the air force firing zone is even further away. your claim that the bombs were dropped next to the Bedouin village have no relation to reality. There are safety distance requirements and no one would drop a cluster bomb next to the base or the village.
If you’ll look at the map, it will be cleared that the guy went into a firing range located at least 10 KM from his house. He had no business there.
The judge apparently didn’t use Google Maps then, did he?
Why is it so important to you to prove this guy deserved to have his hand blown off?
The situation in Israel is complicated enough without taking things out of context.
The debate in this thread has taken things out of context, accuracy should be on everyone’s interest, you included.
I very clearly & explicitly told you & Nimrod that yr attempts to prove the man deserved to get his hand blown off were done. That the thread was closed to both of you. Yet both of you deliberately flouted my direction. You will be moderated & future comments will be approved by me as long as they you’ve read & respected the rules. When I feel confident that you are doing so, I will remove moderation.
This will show you that when I ask you to do something, I mean it.
Further, you have no idea where the Bedouin’s home is located unless you’ve been on site or unless it’s specifically marked in Google Maps.
You such a sore debater.
I’m done with you. You can’t handle reality. Not like you i have been to shivta many times. the bedouin village is marked on the map, yet you for whatever reason don’t wish to allow a real free debate, the knight of free speech.
Goodbye and thank you for the fish.
Deïr Yassin,
Nimrod is my real name.
Then why were you called “Yuval” by a fellow Israeli who appears to know you? I detest this sort of monkey business. If I find out you’re violating the comment rules by commenting using multiple aliases you’ll be banned.
You have to be out of your mind if you think i know this guy.
I made a mistake, not everyone who reads your blog and respond is an employee of some hasbara central BS center. Just folks with a different opinion.
So I guess it’s convenient to say it was his own fault? That it’s OK to steal someone’s homeland, and while they pathetically resort to salvaging your scraps to make a living and one of those scraps mutilates a human being, it’s tough shit, he deserved it?
The tag team of Elad and Yuval need to return to Hasbara Central for a re-tooling, I think.
An interesting insight into a twisted thought process which blames the victim. In this case the judge found the defence case not to hold any water. But consider if it is true that some Palestinians risk life and limb to gather israeli cast offs in the manner described cos they may be worth a bit of money? Who but only desperate people would undertake this dangerous and demeaning exercise? Saw something a while ago about poor palestinians racking over israeli garbage dumps to find cast off treasures…..This is the lot of the dispossessed and oppressed. You must be very proud of this achievement. I daresay pictures of the degradation of WW2 victims move you…but apparently similar inhumanity and degradation here does not. Inhuman.
Nimrod – let’s (for the sake of argument) assume that the man actually DID come to collect discarded and scrap metal. The judge awarded him the reparations at least partially because the state and the IDF were exceedingly negligent in marking and fencing off a live-fire exercise area. The man has had his hand blown off and sustained significant other injuries.
Even assuming he came for the metal (and the judges clearly discounted that claim by the state) – the state was negligent in not marking the area.
@Marc
If the area was not marked as a firing range / military zone with not entrance for civilians allowed, than I agree with you 100%.
Read the story linked in my post BEFORE you comment. It says that precisely & I’ve written that in this thread at least three or four times!
Should be “Shivta army base”.
Thanks. I’d never seen it spelled in English before & tried transliterating the Hebrew spelling.
There’s a good article on 972mag by Nadia Ben-Youssef on settlers in the Neguev waiting for the Bedouins to be expelled from their ‘illegal’ village into shantytowns in order to take over their land and build another Jewish-only town. Good video too.
http://www.972mag.com/watch-jewish-settlers-await-the-destruction-of-bedouin-village-in-negev/