39 thoughts on “Kadima Joins Israeli Governing Coalition to Stave Off Electoral Debacle – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.

  1. Few things will come out of this unity government:
    1. Equal service to all, either military of community service. And that Includes all Israeli citizens no exception, Secular, Orthodox, Jews or Arabs.
    2. The change of the current election method, which means, no more backroom deals, no more extortion, no more special allocations.

    and yes mofaz get’s the time he needs to revive Kadima, but so what ?

    IMHO this unity government is also a sign that the attack on Iran is imminent and close to be executed. Bibi knows that Yehimovitz will not dare to criticize him over it (she’s a women and doesn’t have the military credential in comparison to Mofaz)

    1. You said “few things will come out of the coming government.” You meant “a few things,” but I like your original articulation. It’s far more accurate.

      Thanks for the sexism and delusional thinking. You think Israel is going to exempt yeshiva bochers from military service? Think again. But even if they didn’t, it would only make the IDF even more extremist, pro-settler & racist than it already is. As for Palestinian Israelis serving in the IDF–dream on.

      Mofaz opposes an Iran attack. So good luck on that one as well. As for Shelly Yachimovitz, she won’t oppose an Iran attack not because she isn’t a woman (that little piece of bulls*^ on your part is genuinely offensive) but because no Israeli political party opposes wars while they’re being fought. It’s only afterward they carp like hell and pretend they DID oppose them.

      Bibi has no serious military credentials either btw. And he & Barak will be approving and directing the war, not Mofaz.

      1. “You think Israel is going to exempt yeshiva bochers from military service? Think again”

        Uh? Do you have any idea what the current issues in Israel are? We’re talking about Haredim and Arabs here, not the settlers.

        1. I guess I have a better idea of current issues in Israel than you do. A lot of those yeshiva bochers are extremist settlers or their supporters. Or aren’t you aware of all the yeshivot which either are located in settlements or ardently support them?

          1. You are confused. Let me settle the confusion.
            Most of the settlers go to hesder yeshivas and serve in the army. You are right that many of these hesder yeshivas preach to problematic ideals, but this usually does not relate to the Haredim:

            Haredim do not go to hesder yeshivas, they go to regular yeshivas and don’t perform military service. The ideology preached in these yeshivas is anti-Zionist, but usually says nothing about Palestinians, Arabs, etc’. The Haredim are not right winged, even though some of them (few) live across the green-line. They simply don’t care enough.

            The public discussion in Israel regarding military service is the result of the Haredim systematically avoiding military service since the founding of Israel. The discussion so far has nothing to do with the right winged settler groups, who do perform service.

            You’re mixing two different groups with differing ideologies.

          2. You made a chopped salad out of the subject
            Generally speaking the different yeshiva’s in israel belong to two main streams:
            1. Zionist Yeshiva
            2. Haredi Yeshiva

            Most of the Zionist Yeshiva belong to the “Hesder / הסדר ” and their students are known to be national religious folks. they serve in the military. They come from all over within the green line and outside the green line from places like gush etzion, beit-el and others. they follow the guidelines and believes of harav kook.

            Most of the Haredi Yeshiva, do not belong to the “Hesder” follow the Hasidic Judaism and their students are exempt from military service under what is known as Torato Omanuto agreement which is reflected in the Tal Law.

            The Yeshiva you mentioned, Od Yosef Chai is a Haredi Yeshiva. They do not serve in the IDF.

            The biggest issue with the Torato Omanuto, is that the a young Haredi person, must extend his exemption status year after year until the age of 45 if he was a single at which point he will get a permanent exemption status from the IDF, (31 for a father of 5 and 35 if he was a father of 4) must remain a student in the Yeshiva and until he becomes 23 can’t earn money from work., if he would like to go out look for a job he must enlist into service first. Since they do not want to serve, for different reasons, they can’t join the labor force they can’t make a living, they live off a very minimal grant giving to them, and as they get married and give birth they have additional grants through the welfare system.

            The Israeli supreme court ruled recently that the Torato Umanuto deal is discriminatory and must be changed by July of this year. Mofaz joined the government in an attempt to solve that problem. Any solution will include the Arab sector as well. The solution will be a very minimal number of Haredi which will be exempt from IDF / communal service (about 1200 / year) all the rest, IDF will have first choice, and if the IDF doesn’t want you for whatever reasons you will do communal service (hospitals, tutoring , fire department, police, etc.) a similar deal will be implemented over the Arab sector. It is a just demand, and part of the demands of the J14 movement.

            as for Iran, Mofaz said many things about Bibi before joining Bibi’s government, he made a 180 degree shift in his views. If you listened to what his statements about Iran were, he supported a military action as a last option, just argued about the timing. Since now he will be part of the 8 (who will become the 9) I think he will change his mind.

            My remark over Sheli Yechmovitz wasn’t sexist, While Bibi has 3 ex chief of staff’s in his forum of 9 (Barak, Bugi and Mofaz) + Halutz who will not be a part of the forum but he’s a part of kadima and will support from the sideline, any decision made about Iran will lean on their military credentials. Yechimovitz lacks the same credentials and has no ex military general as part of the Avoda party (anyone seen Mitzna lately ?) The only one mentioned as a future candidate was Ashkenazi, but with the latest response of Harpaz to the State Comptroller of Israel as reported by Ayala Hason yesterday or the day before, and with the State Comptroller request to resume criminal investigation of the matter, Ashkenazi will not be going into politics any time soon. You think that under these terms the Israeli Public will be willing to hear any critique from a women over a decision supported by 4 ex COS’s ? think again.

          3. I wrote that their are a whole range of settler (outside Green Line) & pro-settler (inside Green Line) yeshivot whose students don’t serve, which you derided. Now you concede my original point. Od Yosef Chai is of course not the only such institution whose students don’t serve, yet who espouse a racist, pro-settler ideology.

          4. @ Commoner states that the ideology preached in the Haredi Yeshivas is anti-zionist, and doesn’t really mention the Palestinians, or the Arabs.
            @ Liron tells us that Od Yosef Chai in Yitzhar is a Haredi Yeshiva.

            That’s all sounds very convincing to me, but could you guys then tell me what “The King’s Torah”, written by Rabbi Yosef Elitzur and Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira of the Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva is all about, if not a justification for killing Palestinians, even kids.
            Strange ‘anti-Zionists’ ! What did I miss ?

          5. You didn’t miss a thing, only few nuances.
            Od Yosef Chai is an odd creature for few reasons
            1. Usually Haredi Yeshiva’s do not opine about the matters of the state.
            2. For the most part located within the boundaries of the green line.
            3. though not all the haredi community is Anti-Zionist, the extreme Haredi is. in that aspect OYC Yeshiva fits right in, They do not accept the rule of the state and as part the attitude towards the Palestinians.
            4. If you think the Zionist movement preaches the killing of Palestinians Including their kids you are delusional. Richard is a Zionist does he preach killing anyone ? or are you going to argue that Richard is a Zionist ?

          6. @ Liron
            Instead of ‘hasbarizing’ on the humanistic world view of the Zionist movement, you should have addressed my point which was VERY specific.

            “The King’s Torah” (but maybe you don’t know that book !) is written by Yosef Elitzur and Yitzhak Shapira, both rabbis at the Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva in the Yitzhar settlement that YOU mentioned. That book justifies the killing of goyim aka Palestinians, and excplicitly mentions children, and it has been endorsed by other rabbis.

            There’s some ‘cognitive dissonance’ about this, right ?

          7. @ DS.
            You don’t listen.
            Israel is probably the only place in the world which funds those who preach against the existence and do not accept the rule of the state.
            There are many nuances / streams in the Haredi communities (, some are anti-zionist), OYC Yeshiva belongs to such stream. They used to be part of the Hasder (strange thing #2) but were booted out for being extremist.
            Therefore any correlation between OYC and the Zionist movement or the views of the state of Israel (which they speak against) exist only in your imagination, with one caveat, our taxes – for historical reasons- fund those parasites, hopefully that will change with the elimination of Tal law, no more Parasites, equal contribution Jews and Arabs.

          8. @DS one more thing.
            The book you refer to, is an interpretation of the current halacha by those two Rabbi’s you mention and doesn’t deal explicitly with Palestinians, in fact the word Palestinian doesn’t even mention there once.

            Just FYI, a yeshiva student wastes a lot of his time studying inapplicable (IMHO) halacha’s, part of them has to do with the sacrificing animals during the temple times (temple doesn’t exist as we both know) and many other example of time waste in the Yeshiva’s, why ? it’s a long complicated explanation. If you care to know ask and i will try to explain.

          9. Doesn’t deal with Palestinians? You’re being too cute by half. Who are the children of enemies of Israel who will grow up to kill Israelis and therefore may be killed even as children?? Aliens? Canadians? Cockroaches?

          10. @ Liron
            “DS You don’t listen”
            I don’t know if DS is me, but yes, I listen very carefully, but as I was the one who asked a question, I’m the one who can say that YOU don’t listen.
            It took you three comments before addressing my question, and only after starting by “one more thing”, but the ‘one more thing’ was the only thing I asked about. I didn’t mention the Zionist movement, YOU did. And I didn’t mention the Green Line either…

            “The King’s Torah” doesn’t mention Palestinians specifically, but we all know that those two Rabbis and their followers aren’t living on stolen Chinese, Mapuche or Wolof land….
            Thank you, but you don’t have to explain animal sacrificing, I’ve studied a little voodoo and candomblé myself….

            “The King’s Torah” and it’s ‘non-Zionist’ origin was my point. Wonder what these nutcases would have written, had they actually been Zionists.

          11. @ DS
            I am sorry i do not response well to sarcasm.

            As for your interpretation of the King’s torah , It’s pure nonsense. Correct me if i am wrong, you never studied in a yeshiva and never studied Gomorrah, this book is not any different (in concept) then any other book found in a Yeshiva,
            When you study a halacha you view all the views that exist. And there are many.
            The book – which is available online – summarize all the different halacha’s with different subjects correlated to the ruling of a king, with war being only the minor one.
            I know the subject sounds “sexy” but there are no new halacha’s and no new interpretation in that book.
            I’m sure there are many Muslim equal halachas, that everyone talks about but no on practices. same same.

          12. @ Liron
            No, I don’t think it sounds “sexy” at all, and thanks for confirming that there’s nothing new in that book. Killing gentiles is a mainstream idea, if I get you right.
            Funny how some hasbaristas often talk about ‘genocidal Mohamedans’. “Takes one to know one” I guess.
            You’re right, I never studied in a Yeshiva. Regretfully. But in a Pakistani madrasa, close to the Afghani borders….

          13. @DS If you are so interested in the book i suggest you’ll start by leaning Hebrew and Aramaic.

            The book deals with the moral conditions under which someone can act in defiance of the commandment “Thou shalt not kill”

            if you would bother reading the book, the book actually states that under normal conditions a Jew can’t kill a gentile and it’s driven from the Noahide laws.

            and yes when you are attacked you are permitted to defend yourself and in that aspect, and in that aspect killing those who attack you is a universal main stream idea.

            It’s hard to explain to a non yeshiva student what this book is all about, and i think that the subject of this post is not this book, and i don’t want to extend my welcome. so please let’s drop the subject (unless permitted by the moderator)

            @ RIchard
            You stated “You think Israel is going to exempt yeshiva bochers from military service? Think again”

            and that statement of your cause some of us confusion. because absolutely most Yeshiva students are Haredim and do not serve.

  2. Just out of curiousity: did the Knesset actually pass the bill to dissolve itself?

    If the answer is “yes” then an Israeli Prime Minister can not “cancel” that bill.

    After all, he is Prime Minister because he commands the numbers in the Knesset, and if the Knesset is dissolved then he has no authority to “undissolve” it, and he has no authority to form a “new” government if there is no Knesset.

    Or did he make this announcement *before* that bill was voted on in the Knesset?

    1. the bill passed the first of three hearings needed to pass a law (it would have gone to committee then returned to vote on amendments and then the final version)
      The process can take anything from a day to months depending on who deals with it and how controversial it is.

      And Richard you’re wrong about yeshivot in settlements. They are all super military orientated and all do army service usually as combatants and commandos. The Hareidim are the long black coat types with black hats who live mostly in jersalem and bnei brak (and also betar, a settlement, but very untypical as a settlement)

      As for mofaz – to quote Dante – abandon all hope ye who enter here.

      My prediction – nothing will be achieved. No draft, no constitutional change, and an attack on Iran will be or not be irrespective of mofaz

      1. I agree completely with your last 2 paragraphs.

        My impression is that those at Yeshivat Od Yosef Chai in Yizhar & similar ones is that they don’t do IDF service. But I could be wrong.

    2. The Knesset was actually debating the bill to dissolve itself. All of a sudden Bibi came in like an emperor & told the assembled multitudes they could retire as there was no further need for their presence. In short, they hadn’t passed the bill but they had to maintain the fiction that they would pass the bill until they didn’t need to pass the bill–if you catch my drift.

        1. Each bill need to pass 3 hearings.
          The bill passed the 1st, was schedule for the 2nd and 3rd later last night, which were cancelled due to the deal.

  3. A whole lotta noise about nothing. Just what is the difference between Likud and Kadima? The short and honest answer is none.

    Folding Kadima into the far right governing coalition is all about strengthening the Zionists domestically and getting their ducks in a row for the fight they know that’s coming with Obama post November. And managing this without an election should be no surprise since that’s a feature of parliamentarian societies.

    You can bet the farm the blood suckers on capitol hill in D.C. would love to do this too, avoiding facing the voters, but can’t due to established 2, 4 & 6 year election cycles.

    1. Only if you believe that Mofaz is a principled politician who will continue to oppose an attack as he has in the past. But if he’s a crass opportunist with no principles but self preservation then all bets are off.

    2. My humble opinion is these political shenanigans are all about stiffing spines and manning the barricades, against dissent within and rising pressures from without.

      Its been reported, editorialized, analyzed to death, within – without Israel and from the mountain tops, that Israel does not have the military assets & strike capability to successfully attack Iran.

      And should the insane asylum escapees in Israel gamble, betting the US will jump in and save the day, that’s one hell of wild ass wager risking it all should the hated goy in the W/H refuses to play.

      However much messianic tinkerbells shoot their mouths off, threaten and beat the drums of war, Bibi and company probably realize the game is lost as regards Iran. And that’s so no matter how the upcoming Iranian/P5+1 meeting in Baghdad turns out, which could end badly or like Istanbul with everyone agreeing on keeping the dialog and negotiations going.

      The facts are once the US began talking to the Iranians in a public, international fora, that’s the day the fat lady began to sing. It might take 3 months or 3 years, but some bargain grand or otherwise is in the offing.

  4. Haven’t posted here in a long time, but I thought I’d remind you pf a little exchange we had on a post from March 2009 after the last election.
    me: “Richard, you are going to be very disappointed. It will be at least three and a half years before new elections, if not four, though there may be some reshuffling.”
    you: “We’ll see what tune you’re whistling when the coalition topples of its own weight…If you were a real estate agent, you could sell yourself swamp land in Florida and call it a beautiful suburban home”
    me:”Labor is not likely to split in the near future, and even if it did that won’t bring the gov’t down.” [the irony here is that when the split came it wasn’t the rebels that initiated it]
    you: “If I was a betting man I’d challenge you to a bet. You’re such an easy mark & will lose this one… I’ll match my predictive abilities against yours any day…I’m holding you to yr bogus 3 1/2 yr prediction. The government falls in a year or less.”

    Since you are holding me to my prediction I thought I’d come back and remind you of this little exchange. It will be three and a half years in October.

    1. My views of Israeli politics are quite different than they were even in 2009. Now, I rather prefer having a far right extremist run Israel for as long as possible. The longer the far right runs Israel the sooner a catastrophe will occur that is so monumental & tragic that the world will be forced to intervene. If there were any strong, sane Israeli leader around I wouldn’t feel this way. But there isn’t. They’re all a crock of s(^t as far as I’m concerned. If Israelis want to vote for ’em by all means. They’ll get the leadership they deserve just as Brecht said in Galileo.

      1. It seems like you are saying that you are hoping for a monumental and tragic catastrophe. Am I reading that right?

        If so, what do you mean by that? What sort of catastrophe are you hoping for and in what way would the world intervene?

        1. Bob, that’s just plain dumb. You’re trying to lure me into a gotcha moment & it’s really silly beyond words. Not to mention that others have tried this ploy before you. I’m not saying I “wish” for a catastrophe. Wouldn’t that be a great headline for Jewlicious & the other nattering nerds of pro-Israelism.

          I’m saying that a catastrophe is likely to happen. I’m speaking in historical terms (not of my own personal wishes) saying that the weight of injustice & evil will eventually cause a catastrophic event that will compel the world to act just as happened in Kosovo & Serbia & Rwanda.

          1. To be fair, you wrote:

            “I rather prefer having a far right extremist run Israel for as long as possible”

            And then:

            “The longer the far right runs Israel the sooner a catastrophe will occur that is so monumental & tragic that the world will be forced to intervene.”

            Can you not see how those two statements together could lead one to conclude that you are hoping for a catastrophe? (based on your use of the word “prefer” with respect to a right wing government that you say will hasten the arrival of such a catastrophe) I appreciate the clarification, but I don’t think my question was dumb based on those remarks.

            I was not at all looking for any kind of “gotcha” moment; I was just trying to understand your meaning.

            It seemed counter intuitive for me to read that you wanted to see a far-right government run Israel for as long as possible, especially considering how much you have seemed to oppose such a thing in the recent past.

          2. I no longer believe Israelis on the whole want anything other than a far right government. Nor do I believe there is a viable left or even liberal political movement that can have any real impact on the nation. Politics in Israel, at least electoral politics is useless. Israel cannot save itself, indeed doesn’t want to.

            There is only one possible result from all this. Israel will get itself into a catastrophe of epic proportions & this is what will move the world to act. The other option is for Israel to be destroyed. Neither possibility is a happy one.

            Jerry Haber propounded a similar view before the last Israeli election. I thought he was a bit too radical & cynical then. Turns out he probably wasn’t cynical enough & I was far too gullible.

  5. Quite how this changes anything for ISRAEL is rather unclear to me.

    Sure, it helps NETANYAHU remain in power, and it helps MOFAZ avoid political oblivion, but what’s the point of “power” if you aren’t willing to do anything with it?

    Israel has spent 40+ years digging itself into a hole with these settlements, and Netanyahu has no intention of trying to drag Israel outta it.

    And, let’s face it, even if he did he has no idea how he could go about it.

    No. Israeli. Politician. Does.

    So all this is amounts to little more than Netanyahu rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic so he can have a more comfortable view of what lies ahead.

    But he has no comprehension of what lies ahead, because he is deluded enough to think that if Israel can just keep plowing ahead then the Pals will have to give in and sign over to him everything he wants.

    But he ain’t unique in that: every Israeli politician believes that is what will happen.

    Until they retire, at which point the epiphany whacks ’em right between the eyes and they start shouting warnings that they never uttered when they were in office.

  6. RE: “…Israeli politics is full of opportunism, corruption and naked greed. It’s a bit like the old Tammany Hall, except that it encompasses an entire country, rather than a single city.” ~ R.S.

    Il divo: La spettacolare vita di Giulio Andreotti, 2008, NR, 110 min.
    Paolo Sorrentino directs this superbly entertaining docudrama about the colorful life and political career of Italy’s Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti and his party’s decades-long throttlehold on Italian politics. Highlighting accusations of mafia ties, Sorrentino pulls no punches as he lays any number of corruption scandals and even political assassinations at the politician’s feet, all with a sly sense of humor. Toni Servillo stars as Andreotti.
    Language: Italian (English subtitles)
    Netflix Availability: DVD and Blu-ray
    • Netflix Listing – http://movies.netflix.com/Movie/Il-Divo/70100556
    • IMdB – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1023490/
    • IL Divo Trailer (VIDEO, 02:07) – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKpS0tDwM3c

  7. This is a charade. The “Iran Threat” did not become a dedicated section on Jpost.com overnight. Olmert is as guilty as Netanyahu, Netanyahu is as guilty as Livni, they are as belligerent as Mofaz, all of them as land-stealing as Lieberman, etc. etc.

    Do not play bad cop/good cop and think you can get away with it. There are many Charlie Browns who will attempt to kick your ball, Lucy, but the smart ones see through a modus operandi that rears its head again and again and again.

    Netanyahu would give up his power and share it for _____? Answer: NETANYAHU

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *