20 thoughts on “Yaalon: Iran Has Choice to ‘Have Bomb or Survive’ – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. The way you talk about Hamas in this post is odd considering that you yourself had called for Abu Mazen to destroy Hamas. You must be confusing me with Elliot Abrams. We both may have Jewish sounding names, but the similarities end there.

      1. I would never lie about your views. I know how strongly you feel about that.

        My post: “…you yourself had called for Abu Mazen to destroy Hamas.”

        Your blog post: “The only way to destroy Hamas is to get Abu Mazen to do it. If Ben Gurion could rein in the upstart Irgun…then Abu Mazen can do the same to Hamas and the other extremists on their side.”

        1. Omigod, I wrote that in 2003! You clearly didn’t dig that up yourself. I want to know where you read that & what website you’ve been reading. And next time you want to claim that I hold certain views & plan to use evidence from 9 yrs ago would you check w me about whether I still hold the same views?

          And you expect me to hold precisely the same views now as in 2003? Are you daft? Of course my views have changed as yours have too on numerous matters. Needless to say given the horrible past history of the events of 2006, I don’t believe Abu Mazen can or should destroy Hamas. In fact, I don’t believe Abu Mazen can do much of anything. Does that bring you up to date?

          1. I respect that you’ve changed your mind. All I did was state that you “had called for Abu Mazen to destroy Hamas” which you did do, so I don’t think it was fair to imply that I was lying.

            In any case, I am not sure what you are talking about with respect to other websites and not being able to dig something up myself. I always liked one of your original posts when you started this blog: “Peace in the Middle East: This I Believe” – I think I generally view the conflict along the lines that you did at that time (You may recall a discussion we had here about which of those initial views you no longer believe).

            The comments you made about Hamas that I just cited for you come a few posts after that initial one. Believe it or not, I do actually enjoy reading through some of those early posts; I especially wish you’d bring back some of the other topics you used to include such as music, food, and Seattle life.

            Anyway, I know you don’t like when comments stray off topic so I will leave it there – I just wanted to respond to your questions and assertions.

          2. Since I don’t believe that Abbas can or should destroy Hamas I naturally thought you made it up. I haven’t believed that since well before 2006. The reason I asked about where you read my old posts is that believe it or not there are those who must comb through them as well as you, seeking supposed contradictions between things I wrote 9 yrs ago & what I write now. They then hold them up as trophies to prove my alleged bad faith or what have you. It’s particularly annoying & stupid, as if people are stones who sit on the ground and never change over time (though even stones do minutely).

            You may have a superior memory about things you write going back 9 yrs to mine. But I am glad that you enjoy the posts I wrote earlier even if we disagree about the direction my views have taken since.

            As for other topics, I do sometimes write about music. Since our little ones were born, my wife and I have far less time to spend in restaurants alas. So there is little writing about food.

  2. “Yaalon offered that when “we sit around a table, we will have three questions we will ask that aren’t preconditions: are you ready to recognize Israel as a nation-state of the Jewish people? “”

    When i hear a statement like this, i immediately think to myself “am i ready to recognize the United States as a nation-state of the White people?”

    No, definitely not, so if Israel is going to piggy-back on American values, then Israelis should have these same standards. Citizenship for ALL, regardless of class, color or creed.

    The Likud extreme right-wing ideology rests on the assumption that America will be there “the day after” the Israelis attack Iran.

    As an american, it is obvious that cracks are forming in the narrative, and truth is wedging itself into the depths of their deceits. The zionist propaganda is shattering, and what may be ‘true’ today (ie, American military support) may not be true tomorrow.

    Yaalon is belligerent and full of blood lust, he and people like him are the main causes of instability in the region. When he describes Iran and Iran’s behavior, he in actuality is clearly describing himself and Israel’s behavior (mutatis mutandis). He is his own enemy, marching Israel into this sure-to-be destructive war the way he is. The world’s sympathy is shifting and it will not fall on him.

    1. “When i hear a statement like this, i immediately think to myself “am i ready to recognize the United States as a nation-state of the White people?””

      well…I guess you categorize jews as a race, then?

      thanks for reminding me why I’m a zionist.

      1. While the White Nation followers defines themselves as a race, they need a particularly wet dream to fantasise on being the US master-race.

        Israel’s zionists, on the other hand, define Jews as a nation, but practise their master-race privileges in everyday life.

        Thanks for reminding us why you’re a zionist.

      2. Sometimes people are against oppression of any race.

        Americans define ‘citizen’ in an inclusive way. Much blood has been spilled within these borders to make this American inclusivity a reality. We are not America without this inclusive nature.

        The fact that American weapons and money are supporting many kinds of chauvinisms in Israel without the slightest critical eye on the part of American politicians will not persist forever. American citizens will eventually mobilize on this issue.

        The Zionist narrative that holds back that critical eye is shattering, founded on a heap of lies as it is, and so if Israel is to survive it needs to learn how to survive on its own.

        Making peace with its neighbors is how Israel does that. What problem do the Israelis have with this?

  3. It should be noted that even in the Likud – a party accustomed to embedding religious-right crackpottery into its mainstream – Yaalon is still considered a borderline, non-mainstream crackpot, due to his association with the “Feiglins”.

  4. RE: “…he [Yaalon] claimed that when Menachem Begin assaulted Saddam’s Osirak reactor…Saddam gave up on Osirak and turned to other weapons programs.” ~ R.S.


    (excerpt)…Israel claims that the attack impeded Iraq’s nuclear ambitions by at least ten years.[16] In contrast, Dan Reiter has estimated that the attack may have accelerated Iraq’s nuclear weapons program, a view echoed by Richard K. Betts.[17][80] Bob Woodward, in the book State of Denial, writes:

    “Israeli intelligence were convinced that their strike in 1981 on the Osirak nuclear reactor about 10 miles outside Baghdad had ended Saddam’s program. Instead [it initiated] covert funding for a nuclear program code-named ‘PC3’ involving 5.000 people testing and building ingredients for a nuclear bomb (…)”[81]

    These claims are bolstered by Iraqi researchers who have stated that the Iraqi nuclear program simply went underground, diversified, and expanded.[82] Khidir Hamza, an Iraqi nuclear scientist, made the following statement in an interview on CNN’s Crossfire in 2003:

    “Israel — actually, what Israel [did] is that it got out the immediate danger out of the way. But it created a much larger danger in the longer range. What happened is that Saddam ordered us — we were 400… scientists and technologists running the program. And when they bombed that reactor out, we had also invested $400 million. And the French reactor and the associated plans were from Italy. When they bombed it out we became 7,000 with a $10 billion investment for a secret, much larger underground program to make bomb material by enriching uranium. We dropped the reactor out totally, which was the plutonium for making nuclear weapons, and went directly into enriching uranium… They [Israel] estimated we’d make 7 kg [15 lb] of plutonium a year, which is enough for one bomb. And they get scared and bombed it out. Actually it was much less than this, and it would have taken a much longer time. But the program we built later in secret would make six bombs a year.”[82]

    Similarly, the Iraqi nuclear scientist Imad Khadduri wrote in 2003 that the bombing of Osirak convinced the Iraqi leadership to initiate a full-fledged nuclear weapons program…

    SOURCE – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

    1. No, not at all. First, Obama is a spineless wimp & I don’t believe anything he says on such a subject. Second, he never put the matter as starkly as Yaalon did offering Iran a choice between a bomb and death as Yaalon did.

      1. Obama is pretty stark with his comments here:

        “And if they are pursuing nuclear weapons, then I have said very clearly, that is contrary to the national security interests of the United States; it’s contrary to the national security interests of our allies, including Israel; and we are going to work with the world community to prevent that…”

        Obama reiterated later Thursday that “no options off the table means I’m considering all options”

        You’ve written that supporting sanctions is the same thing as supporting bombing Iran since sanctions won’t work. I think you had made that point earlier in relation to AIPAC’s position on Iran.

        Not only does Obama say he supports sanctions, here, he also says (and reiterates) that other options are on the table as well.

        It does seem then like Obama is giving Iran the same choice as Yaalon “have bomb or survive” – and certainly there are prominent folks in the House and Senate who feel this way as well – so I think it is worth taking seriously.

        1. Again, I don’t agree with you & I wish you wouldn’t reiterate the same argument you’ve already made in almost the same terms. Obama has proven time & again that his words don’t match his deeds so no reason to believe much of anything he says. It’s all window dressing. I even think Bibi & Barak have reached the same conclusion, which is why they’ve been plotting an independent Israeli attack. Not to mention that Obama’s views on Iran are far different than Yaalon’s. If you don’t understand the diff. in tone & substance between a flaccid liberal president & an ultra hawk former IDF chief of staff, then you’re being a bit dense.

  5. RE: “The former IDF general [Yaalon] ranged over affairs in the entire Middle East. It was a deft, well-argued presentation that posited a region that would be in a state of perpetual conflict into the indefinite future.” ~ R.S.

    MY COMMENT: It sounds a lot like Jabotinsky’s “Iron Wall” to me (which is indeed a prescription for perpetual war). And frankly, the US’ “Global War on Terror” pretty much seems to be an American version of the “Iron Wall”.

    FROM WIKIPEDIA [Iron Wall (essay)]:

    (excerpt)…Jabotinsky argued that the Palestinians would not agree to a Jewish majority in Palestine, and that “Zionist colonisation must either stop, or else proceed regardless of the native population. Which means that it can proceed and develop only under the protection of a power that is independent of the native population – behind an iron wall, which the native population cannot breach.”[1] The only solution to achieve peace and a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, he [Ze’ev Jabotinsky] argued, would be for Jews to unilaterally decide its borders and defend them with the strongest security possible…

    SOURCE – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Wall_(essay)
    P.S. ALSO SEE: The Iron Wall, Vladimir (Ze’ev) Jabotinsky, 1923 – http://www.mideastweb.org/ironwall.htm

  6. Since you’ve raised the spectre of Jabotinsky ( hero/boss of Netanyahu’s extremist father in the 20s).
    I submit that one needn’t go back quite that far to read about the zionist expansion plans–instead see those written in the early 80s by Oded Yinon- the “Yinon plan” carve up the entire M/E and region into small bantustans of sects. In fact Yinon started with destroying Iraq and to move on to divide and conquer; to reign supreme from the River to the Sea. The Bush Neocons used it as a draft plan..and in fact, in 2007, when General Wes Clark spoke about learning of the 7 countries in 5 years plan…he spoke about it frequently then. Here:

  7. Yaalon’s family tree will be uprooted for going around and preaching the mass genocide of Iranians. Who does he think he is? A poor man’s Hitler?

  8. Clearly, Iran is not the only country that does not cherish USA going around and telling what to do and what not to do. And USA is not what it used to be for a few years: the only remaining superpower.

    Iranian nuclear program is a trap. It is not clear that it is achieving anything worthwhile on its own, but it is modular, dispersed, and fortified. A small attack would lead to a triumphant communique that the program is intact and Zionist enemy will regret its impudence, and a minor retaliation. A large attack would lead to FUBAR, and Iran would concentrate retaliation on blocking trade in oil and attacks by proxy (and direct?) on American assets which are close to Iran and vulnerable.

    Iran could not pull it out in total isolation. But in case of a major attack it will have backing from Russia and China. And Iran is not surrounded. The powers of Eurasian interior do not wish overly powerful USA on the ground there. And Iran is adjacent to that interior.

    USA remains a superpower in part because of marvelous weaponry. Now Iran got a better radar from Russians and an invisible drone was spotted. I do not think that downing a drone by “hacking” can be repeated, but our power of invisibility is not what it used to be. A flytrap caught a fly, to considerable “Eurasian” satisfaction.

    I am writing about Eurasian perspective, and where does Israel fit in it? On the margin. Mediaeval Christian maps show Earth with Jerusalem at the center, but in when we consider Iran, this perspective is not valid.

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