Maariv Political Correspondent Warns of ‘Military Adventure’ to Distract from Tent Protest Movement
In the past week, Israel has witnessed the largest mass social protest movement in decades. 150,000 demonstrated a few nights ago in cities and towns throughout Israel against the rising cost of living and deterioration in virtually every aspect of Israeli quality of life including massive cuts to health care and education; and massive increases in housing costs. What is different from previous political protests is that this is a middle class uprising against the government and its social and economic policies.
This movement has also been heavily influenced by the social protests of the Arab Spring. Demonstrators’ slogans have made pointed reference to Tahrir Square and the fact that “it can happen here” too. Social media are playing a similar role in helping organize the events just as they did elsewhere in the Middle East. As much as some might wish Israel to be an island apart in this region, it is very much a part of it. And to the extent that this continues there is hope that Israel will eventually succeed at integrating itself.
Israel’s loudest supporters don’t hesitate to remind the world of the success of the “Israeli Tiger” in all manner of fields of economic endeavor. But what is left out is the massive discrepancy between Israeli haves and have-nots. The fact that one-quarter of Israelis live beneath the poverty line. That one-half of children do as well. The disparities in relative wealth between the richest and poorest are among the highest in the world.
This is now coming back to haunt Bibi Netanyahu, a politician who made his reputation spouting Friedman economic slogans and giving the cold shoulder to anyone who shed tears for the under class. Now hundreds of thousands are turning a cold shoulder to Bibi’s economic theories.
It is ironic and unfortunate that this movement seems to have little awareness of the financial price to be paid by Israel for the burden of Occupation and military budgets which contribute to the impoverishment of Israelis, whether rich or poor (except perhaps those on the defense industry gravy train). Likewise, there is no awareness of the injustice of Occupation or the fact that justice for Palestine would also enable Israel to pursue new economic and social initiatives.
Regardless of all this, the tent protest movement has the very real chance of toppling this benighted government. Now, I have little belief that a new government would do a much better job of addressing these same issues. But just about anything (except a Yisrael Beitenu government) would be better than what now governs the country.
All that being said, it is important to note the very real possibility that Bibi will seek a military distraction to relieve the pressure generated by the social protest movement. In fact, Maariv political correspondent Shalom Yerushalmi writes in today’s edition that Bibi may be contemplating doing just that:
Don’t Mount a Military Initiative
We warn [you] of dubious military threats. The nation boils and Knesset is in recess.
Our politicians are cynical enough to initiate a political or security initiative designed to destroy the protests threatening to overturn them. We are here to restrain them from pursuing this.
Every such proposal must be examined by seven sets of eyes (a reference to the senior ministerial committee which approves all major government initiatives), my friends. Every unnecessary heating up at the borders will arouse immediate fears. Every military threat which they devise for us will be examined by those seven sets of eyes. Every military initiative will be approached will skeptically, especially at this moment. The people are no fools and have proved it in the past few weeks.
Do you harbor doubts about Yerushalmi’s warning? You need look no farther than recent news from Lebanon, which tells us that someone (and who might that be??) may’ve planted a bomb in the Hezbollah compound in Dachiyeh, which wounded Samir Kuntar. He is the notorious (to Israelis) terrorist who several decades ago participated in the attack which brought the death of five Israeli civilians, including two small children.
98 thoughts on “Maariv Political Correspondent Warns of ‘Military Adventure’ to Distract from Tent Protest Movement – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم”
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Daheiyshe is a refugee came in the west bank
Dahiya is the Hezbollah strong hold in Beirut.
As for your version of the Arab spring, seems to me you are not following the news from Egypt any more.
The Extreme Islamist are gaining power, and were able to gather 2 million people in Tahrir square last Friday calling for Islamist constitution in Egypt.
“Liberal groups fear the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s best organized group, and other Islamists will dominate the vote.”
Yerushalmi’s prediction seems ridiculous mainly due to the news from the Lebanon border this morning, that Lebanese forces opened fire on IDF soldiers who were on the Israeli Side of the border.
This time the Israeli’s returned fire and killed a Lebanese soldiers, As IDF wasn’t engaged in tree trimming this morning, i am wondering what will be the Lebanese excuse.
Their version this morning on Walla! was that 7 Israeli soldiers crossed the border and the Lebanese opened fire on them and drove them back over the border.
What really happened? Who knows?
I guess UNIFIL does.
Just like in the previous incident Lebanese army open fire without any reason. IDF didn’t provoke the Lebanese army nor did the IDF crossed the border.
But hey – who knows… Yehh Right.
“Just like the previous incident Lebanese army fire without reason”
If that’s a description of the ‘tree-cutting’ last August, I think we can classify you among the propagandists.
Maybe you should just stay on the beach …. or take a look in the archives here: the article and the comments are not from Mark Regev or Avital Leibovich.
Huh ? Maybe you should stop wasting everyone’s times and find the Unifil report about the previous incident.
“Backed by the U.N. account, Israeli troops returned to the border area on Wednesday and continued pruning trees and bushes which could provide cover for terrorists.
And you call me a propagandist ?
That link was selected arbitrarily, it was the first on google.
“Maybe you should stop wasting everyone’s time”
Yeah, this guys just comes around with his propaganda, and we should all just shut up so he can move on without contradiction. If you feel you’re wasting your time, you’re free to go back to the beach !
Nobody has denied that the tree was within the Israeli side of the border. That’s not the only aspect of this case.
We have in fact discussed this incident here at the time when it happened, so I doubt anyone is going to buy your ‘just like the previous incident’. It’s just like the previous war, right ? ‘They started’.
so let me understand that….
There is no dispute over the facts, Israeli troops did not cross into Lebanese territory, Not today and not during the Tree-Cutting incident. So what happened ? The stars didn’t align themselves right for said hassan nasrallah ?
You are a propagandist, no doubt.
@ The Nudnik
Maybe you should slow down a little ‘the-playing-it-smart’. You are not, and we’ve seen dozens of Israelis as you around here with that same chutzpah. You’re impressing anyone !
Tree trimming on the ‘disputed border’ is supposed to be done under surveillance of UNIFIL who in this exact case asked the Israelis to postpone it due to the absence of the responsable, and the Israelis did not respect the time delay that they have beed asked to. There were other circumstances too that makes your ‘just like the previous incident’ highly biased.
Israeli provocations on the border is also common knowledge among all the other neighbouring countries.
And it’s not necessary to answer if you have nothing to say.
Please if you don’t mind Mr / Ms / Mrs Propaganda get all of us a link to a credible source proving your statement is right.
and Hezbollah statement isn’t consider credible.
Before the Israeli withdraw from Lebanon in 2000 UN marked the border between the two countries (march 2000). The UN declared upon the withdraw that Israel fulfilled it’s international commitment. the only disputed area remains to date is Shebaa farms..
Tone it down or you’ll be moderated. Can the insults. Stick to facts and substantive arguments.
We forgot, any source other than the ones saying what up refer is wrong. Excuse me but I know Walla’s military correspondent & trust him implicitly. You not so much.
UNIFIL is the neutral Organization on the ground. Look up at their statement. It’s not my statement.
Wow thanks for letting me know this. It fits with Yerushalmi’s warning about a military distraction. Trying to heat up the northern front would be just Bibi’s cup o’ tea.
Are you for real ? Lebanese army open fire, on Israeli forces patrolling on Israeli Territory like they do daily (or in this case few times a week) and you think that Bibi is trying to heat up the northern front ?
There are many players in the region that have an interest in creating a distraction :
A.) Hezbollah – to prevent any further steps towards the arrest of the highly Hezbollah operatives who murdered (allegedly to be PC) president Harriri.
B). Syria – to direct the attention away from inner atrocities.
C) Hamas – to point world attention towards Israel coming September.
After it was exposed on Israeli MSM that Kadima , NIF, Anarchists, and other extreme left organizations are behind the protest, and the protest is off a political nature.
After Eini – Histadrut leader announced today that the protest leaders are interested in topping off the government, and he believes in democracy and will not join effort in that, Bibi has nothing to worry about.
Oh Lord, Likudniks have “exposed” the radical infiltration of a social movement encompassing Israelis fr every walk of life. Note the “MSM” exposed this fact. Which one? Doubtless Yisrael Hayom.
You’re annoying me beyond measure. Until u can get better control of yr temper & invective you’re moderated.
Channel 2 Rina Mazliach during 8 Pm edition last night. Maariv, Ofer Eini, Ynet.
I actually saw nothing of the sort on Israel Hayom.
but hey if you wish to keep to your illusions, who am i to stop you.
Wow, the protests were “infiltrated” by Kadima! Shocking what those fiery radicals will do. U name names without telling us what specifically the reporters said. This is evidence?
How many people, you think, would have joined this protest, if the organizers would have stepped forward and would have announced :” we are in favor of converting israel to a state of all it’s citizens from the river to the sea, and creating civil unrest and replacing the government is the first step ?”
Not to many.
Here you go a short list of the genuine protest organizers
I’ve read profiles of the young people who organized the movement & none of them are foreign born radical agitators or wild eyed bomb throwers. If u have evidence to the contrary that is credible I’m sure you’ll share it w us.
Did u ever stop to think of how ironic it is that Mubarak, Assad, the ayatollahs & all the Arab/Muslim dictators reviled the leaders of the Arab Spring in remarkably similar terms. I think the echoes are remarkable. Bibi’s just may go their way as well.
I imagine the excuse will be that the land on both sides of the border belongs to Lebanon, since it does.
How is that, exactly?
“I imagine the excuse will be that the land on both sides of the border belongs to Lebanon, since it does.”
Not according to the UN, in this case.
“Truth is the first casualty of military conflict”
(oops, this was supposed to be a response to shmuel)
I see you have a degree from the Reuters arab-passive-voice school of journalism, in which attacks against Israelis “happen” by some mysterious force. A normal way to describe him, taken from wikipedia:
Yup, a murderer. Hundreds of this kind inhabit Israeli prisons. Some of them murdered children, some murdered their own children. I refuse to consider an Arab who murders Jewish children a worse criminal than a Jew who murders Jewish children (or a Jew who murders non-Jewish children).
As far as I am concerned, murderers should rot in jail for the rest of their lives. However, quite many of them are eventually released after they serve a couple of decades in prison. This is what happened to Kuntar, although in his case the procedure of early release was not the standard one. The best thing to do about him now is to forget him. Not forget his deeds but forget his person and let him live his life. He cannot do much damage now anyway. If Israeli intelligence indeed stands behind the attack on Kuntar, it is simply a waste of personnel and resources.
There is disagreement about what his role was. He was certainly there & certainly guilty of participating. But beyond that events are in dispute. I don’t trust the Israelijustice system nearly as much as u.
But I’ll make u a deal: if u agree that Yitzhak Ben Tzvi, who later would become Israel’s first president, should spend 28 hrs in prison (as Kuntar did) for ordering the assassination of a Dutch Jew who was Mizrahi’s public spokesperson in the 1920s, and agree Shamir & Begin should’ve spent time in prison for their organizing terror attacks against Deir Yassin & the assassination of Count von Bernadotte, then I’ll have no problem calling Kuntar a bloodthirsty terrorist murderer. Deal?? I didn’t think so.
when richard writes about palestinian crimes there is always “a disagreement” “lack of evidence” “propaganda” “lies” (samir kuntar, Fogal family killers). when he writes about Israelis they are always guilty even when they are acquitted at court or there are no evidence (see mavi marmara soldiers, yoav even and i’m sure there are more examples i’m forgetting right now).
richard hates Israel and Israelis so much it makes him blind.
You’ve engaged in a major comment violation & lis about my views about Israel once mo & it will be the last time u do, at least here.
You’ve also lied about my reporting about Yoav Even as well. I’ve offered evidence he which only Israeli men like u seem to dispute. The Mavis Marmara killers were never held accountable by any reputable judicial body. Saying that the whitewash offered by Bibi & Co. was an exoneration is ridiculous.
I’ve never supported Palestinian terror. Ever. But then again, I’ve never reported Israel’s version of frontier justice which throws a virtual rope around the neck of any & all terror suspects whether guilty or not.
You’ve been warned. No lies perrmitted.
arguing with you is like arguing with a religious person about god – it’s pointless. your religion is hating Israel.
And yr religion of lies is hereby banned for yr 2nd comment rule violation after being warned.
It is interesting the way you write about Samir Kuntar having “participated in the attack which brought the death of five Israeli civilians” as opposed to the way you wrote about Abir Amarin not long ago.
In that instance you wrote that IDF officers “murdered the little girl” noting that a bullet “tore the back of her head off” referring to those soldiers as “child killers”.
Do you notice a difference in the way you identify Samir Kuntar and describe his actions?
Don’t you think the way your phrase it makes him comes across a bit more gently than if you had used the sort of language you used above?
Samir Kuntar and his terrorists friends, raided the home of the Haran family. They took 31 year-old Danny Haran hostage along with his four year-old daughter, Einat. The mother, Smadar Haran, was able to hide in a crawl space above the bedroom with her two year-old daughter Yael, and a neighbor.
In her attempt to silence her child, The mother put her hand over her mouth and nose, Yael was suffocated and died.
I can tell you that as a kid living in the heart of Israel far away from Nahariya, i was scared for months after the attack that terrorists would land on our beach and would come to get us.
Palestinian kids in the West Bank and Gaza have been scared – not for month but for the last 50 years. Psychologists talk about generations of tramatized children.
50 years ?
1948 was 63 years ago, 1967 was 44 years ago.
why 50 ?
But u weren’t scared enough to realize how to end this threat, were u?
You don’t even worth a response.
You may not even be worth continuing as a commenter here…
Just imagine how you would have felt if you had been trapped in Gaza while Israeli rockets and white phosphorous were falling all around you, killing and maiming your friends and family members. How many Israelis have been brought to justice over that travesty?
Nudnik has litle sympathy for Palestinians no doubt. They brought their suffering upon themselves…you’ve heard it all before.
“Just imagine how you would have felt if you had been trapped in Gaza while Israeli rockets and white phosphorous were falling all around you, killing and maiming your friends and family members. How many Israelis have been brought to justice over that travesty?”
Just imagine how you would feel if you were an Israeli child living in Sderot, never knowing when a Qassam rocket was going to tear through the roof of your kindergarten.
Too bad the truth of the matter is that all those terrified Sderot residents have a far greater likelihood of being run over by an Egged bus or killed in a car accident than in a Qassam attack; while six times as many Palestinians civilians are killed by Israel than Israelis killed by Palestinians.
As I wrote, the is serious doubt about what specifically Kuntar did during the attack. Of douse he was guilty & legitimately convicted as far as his participation. But as for specifically what he did, that’s legitimately in dispute.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
There were pictures, evidence of the soldiers, the policeman’s, News reporter who testified for the location of the body’s etc.
and you choose to believe a murderer ?
If you want to see the blood stains on the rocks – http://news.nana10.co.il/Article/?ArticleID=557756
listen to the testimony of the policeman who witnessed everything.
She chooses to believe Avi Sela. Is he a murderer?
If u continue the abuse you’ll be moderated. Last warning.
Wow, you are ignorant and nasty. Good combination.
But at least I’ve never called any commenter here a “son of a whore” as you’ve called me. “Nasty” indeed.
Samir Kuntar was convicted of murder. He bashed a child’s head against a rock until she was dead, as well as murdering other family members.
Yet your report says that he “participated” in attack which “resulted” in the death of these civilians. One almost gets the idea that he was involved in a tragic accident that claimed the lives of a few Israelis.
I can predict your response already – “Samir Kuntar was a victim of the Zionist security apparatus. He didn’t receive a fair trial, and those Israelis probably killed themselves in order to frame poor Kuntar”.
Comments are supposed to be original & not rote repetition of previous ones. You’ve written virtually the same comment as 2 other commenters. Don’t rehash & regurgitate comments of others.
Your soft treatment of Arab murderers provides sick justification for their actions. For if no Arab is every involved in attacks against Israelis, and these attack occur by some mysterious force of nature, then obviously they cannot be stopped. Oh, I forget, the way to stop these attacks is by stopping the “occupation”. I guess the way to prevent that horrible massacare in Norway was to stop the “Muslim occupation”.
Your reasoning provides justification for murder.
Me, on the other hand, I will condemn murder for what it is. For example, Goldstein was not “influenced” by Arab violence to commit his crimes – he was a sick bastard driven by hate – the same kind of hatred that drives terrorists all over the world.
“I guess the way to prevent that horrible massacre in Norway was to stop the ‘Muslim’ occupation”
Are you trying to imply that the presence of Muslims in Norway is due to the same factors as Israeli occupation of the Palestinian Territories, i.e. military occupation, check-points, that the Muslims in Norway control and humiliate the indigenous Norwegian population ona daily basis, punish them collectively, decide when they can enter and leave their own country, whom are allowed to visit them, and expel them when they rebel against the Muslim occupation. That the Muslims in Norway regularly bomb and kill Norwegians for the mere fact of being Norwegians. If that’s what you’re trying to say, then ! (I’ll leave the rest to your imagination)
And no, Goldstein is not comparable to all terrorists all over the world. Each of them has their own story: the first Palestinian female suicide bomber had seen so much suffering in her 28 years old life, particularly as a paramedic regularly stopped at checkpoints, her mother told afterwards that she had been deeply depressed by what she had seen. Goldstein left his native USA to become a settler on other people’s land, and these two terrorists can simply not be compared.
What I am saying is this:
Anyone who finds justification, tolerance or understanding towards acts of terror is complicit in crime. It doesn’t matter whether the terrorist is Christian, Jewish or Muslim – terror is an inexcusable form of attack against society.
Frankly, I do not care about the stories of the suicide bombers, or how much “suffering” they’ve seen, just as I don’t care about Goldstein’s, Breivik’s or Bin-Laden’s sick, twisted logic. Absolutely nothing can justify the cold-blooded murder of little babies in their bed, the massacare of teens in a political camp or the carnage of teens going to a nightclub. Anyone who intentionally kills innocents, in cold blood – is a vicious criminal. End of story.
If you want to reach any form of understanding with the Jews in Israel (rather than driving them into the sea) – you should accept the above as your moral baseline. Muslims and Jews are entitled to the exact same right to live.
What you are attempting to do is whitewash one form of violence (Palestinian terror) while condemning other forms of terror.
What utter horse crap. I’m not justifying terror as I renounce violence. But unlike u I understand that Israel has 1,000 times the force of any terror movement & has killed six times the number of Israeli civilians killed in such terror attacks. If you’d shed a tear for these innocent Palestinian victims of Israeli state terror then I’d find yr act a tad more convincing.
And if u accuse me of supporting or condoning terror again here you’ll be violating a major comment rule & yr life here as a commenter will be short.
I deduce from what you’re saying that you firmly condemn the killing of 9 children during their sleep – the youngest a baby of two month – by a bomb of more than one ton dropped on the al-Daraj neighbourhood in Gaza during the Salah Shehadeh-assassination.
Plus the 352 children killed during the three weeks of state terrorism by the code name “Cast Lead”. Not to talk about the civilians killed in the West Bank with the speed of one every three day on an average.
“You should accept the above as your moral baseline”
After what I’ve read from you here lately, this is simply a joke, or you are so f.. navel gazing that you don’t even see that the Israelis are by far the biggest terrorists in this conflict. I haven’ really seen you taking a strong standpoint against the occupation or the Palestinian oppression on a daily basis. We’re listening ….
Understanding begins by finding a common ground. I think that we both can agree that the murder of innocents is immoral and counter-productive if a peaceful resolution to any conflict is to be achieved.
It is easy to try and focus on our divisive points, since many exist. It takes a real mench to look beyond our immediate differences and bad-blood and reach common ground.
I fully support a Palestinian nation, co-existing with Israel peacefully. This nation will hopefully bring about the resolution of the conflict and will create a better future for both Palestinians and Jews. Both sides will make compromises, painful ones, which will hopefully, one day, will allow us to shed our anger.
Sorry for sounding like a Michael Jackson song, but I truly believe this.
Blah blah blah. We are the world & all that s#%t. Words are cheap. Actions count. What have u done to end Israeli terror against Palestinians?? You personally & specifically. When have u called for an immediate Israeli withdraws to 67 borders & end to Occupation?
That last comment of yours has absolutely nothing to do with the others. How come ?
Do you have difficulties denouncing “that absolutely nothing can justify the cold-blooded murder of little babies in their bed” when these babies are killed by YOUR army ?
That “anyone who intentionally kills innocents in cold blood is a vicious criminal” goes for your settlers, the Tsahal-soldiers and the superiors who plan bombing too ?
Why sudden so cooperative and this ‘peace-and-love’-declaration ?
Those little babies have to be Jewish in order for you to condemn their vicious murderers ?
I chose my response carefully, because I do not want to participate in a game whose sole purpose is to “break” the other side. This is not dialog, it is a skirmish.
You seem solely interested in condemning the “terroristic Zionists”. I have harsh criticism towards the Palestinians, but I find it unproductive trying to force that criticism upon you. Obviously I cannot change your way of thinking and you cannot change mine – so the best alternative is to seek out general principals that we both can agree upon, and continue from there.
And for the record, I condemn Goldstein and other Jewish terrorists with the same energy that I condemn the suicide bombers. For me, there is no difference between Goldstein, Dalal Mugrabi or Samir Kuntar – they are all despicable monsters.
When you’re willing to specify that Israeli should withdraw to 67 borders, recognize Jerusalem as a shared capital, & negotiate the Right of Return, then we can talk. Till then, you’re blown’ hot air.
Translation into de-hasbarized English:
Izik condemns cold-blooded murder of little babies in their bed when this is done by terrorists – that is non-state organized killings – but he is incapable of condemning ‘little babies killed in their beds’ when The-Most-Moral-Army-In-The-World drop bombs on their head in order to kill ONE person, knowing that he’s surrounded by children. Incapable. I’ve asked twice specifically, and the guy continues speaking of Goldstein and Samir Kuntar.
Conclusion: if Palestinians had a regular army to terrorize the Israelis, they wouldn’t be ‘terrorists’.
Translation into de-Palestinians propaganda English:
DY have failed to condemn cold blooded murder of the likes of Samir Kuntar and suicide bombers. She failed to condemn murders as long as it “serve” the Palestinians cause. In fact what it does is serve the cause of hearting Jews in Israel.
If I’m wrong I want you to write it down, just like you ask Izik.
I find this argument & it’s tone offensive. Deir Yassin has NEVER supported such forms of terror as far as I know. What she’s objected to is attributing to Kuntar a role in the murders he may not have played. That’s not at all the same as saying he was innocent or didn’t deserve punishment. In fact, I specifically recall her saying she opposed suicide attacks, though I don’t wish to put words in her mouth. If I am correct then I’ll expect an apology fr u to her. If one is not forthcoming then I will consider what action is warranted in yr case. You may NOT lie about the views of those u disagree w here.
Frankly, I don’t give a frig what u want from Deir Yassin. You don’t deserve the time of day fr her. When u decide u can be civil then I might feel differently.
@ Free man
I don’t know what ‘the cause of hearting Jews in Israel’ means. I asked Izik to specify his comments here on this thread. Which of my comments here do you want me to clarify ?
Article 49, section III of the Fourth Geneva Convention says that the occupier is not allowed to transfert parts of its own population into occupied territory.
The Protocol I, an 1977 amendment to the Geneva Convention do REAFFIRM the right of an occupied population to resist against the occupation, also by armed struggle.
I thus follow that distinction between Israel proper and the OT. Do you ?
Israel has not signed neither the Protocol I nor the Protocol II of the Geneva Convention which did not prevent this State from using them when trying to manipulate the number of combattants and non-combattants killed during Cast Lead. The ultimate Israeli chutzpah.
As a law-abiding man, you of course also strongly condemn the presence of more than 520.000 Israeli Jews within the Palestinian terrotories in
On should note the utter hypocrisy of the State of Israel
Erratum: the last line should have been erased.
As I wrote earlier in reply to the same regurgitation of such nonsense, when u can acknowledge that Yitzhak Ben Zvi, Begin and Shamir each deserved prison time for their acts of terror, mayhem and assassination, then I’ll call Kuntar a foul terrorist murderer. When you’re ready to do that then I’ll issue my own statement about Kuntar. I guess I won’t hold my breath though.
Shamir for sure.
But please provide evidence for terrorist attacks aimed at civilians of Begin and Ben-Zvi.
Now, can you try to be truthful and not cloud your self moral with politics ?
BenTzvi ordered the murder of a Dutch Jew who’d become the chief spokesperson for Israel’s leading Orthodox rabbi, leader of what was then called Mizrahi, which was anti-Zionist & anti-secularist.
Begin’s involvement in Deir Yassin is well known, not to mention his organizing the Alta Lena affair.
You failed to deliver.
I suggest you look closely at yourself, cause condemning psychopath killers is not a political issue, but a moral one.
There have been doubts – of course not among main-stream Israelis and their supporters abroad – whether Samir Kuntar was actually guilty in what he was accused of.
I have no references at hand but I remember reading an independant reconstitution: it concluded that Kuntar could not have killed the little girl and her father from where he was.
If someone has these informations that I don’t find actually, I’ll appreciate.
Here’s an interview with Zvi Sela, chief intelligence officer and psychologist, who’s convinced that Kuntar is not guilty, but maybe Zvi Sela is another ‘self-hating’ Jew, like Goldstone …
I have no idea why Sela released such a statement if my memory serves me well (and it has been a long time, and i was about 10 – 11) there were pictures of the father and daughter who were found on the beach.
I do know however that Sela was wrong in believing Kuntar when the he stated he will never engage in terrorism again.
“Lebanese terrorist Samir Kuntar, whom Israel has agreed to free as part of a possible prisoner swap deal with Hizbullah, has vowed to continue engaging in terror after his release.”
Once again you’ve used an Israeli source without providing any substantiation of what Kuntar said in Arabic. Besides, what Kuntar claims he may or may not do are of less import than what he actually does. Do u have any actual proof that he has??
Lisa Goldman, who translated a Maariv piece for the Guardian (an interview with Kuntar), posted up the addendum that wasn’t mentioned in the Guardian, which has the incriminating lines. As my Hebrew has significantly degenerated, I don’t trust it to confirm the article in Maariv, which is why the link below is for Goldman’s site. If I am mistaken, I apologize.
The Guardian Piece:
I’m annoyed to see Samir Kuntar described as a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in both the Guardian-article and on Lisa Goldman’s website.
He was not a member of the PFLP but the PLF at the time of his arrest, and the attack in Nahariya just as that of Achille Lauro were by the PLF, and not the PFLP.
In Lisa Goldman’s article one also gets the impression that she has no idea – or maybe the one she’s translating has no idea – that the PFLP, the PLF and the PFLP-General Command is NOT the same organization though they were at a certain time – for less than one year, in 1967-68, more than 10 years before this attack.
Lisa Goldman, while well-intentioned in many respects leaves a good deal to be desired in some of her reporting. I should add I have a bit of history w her as she also refused to allow me to be included in the Global Voices Israel category when she edited it.
In what respects does Lisa Goldman’s reporting leave a good deal to be desired? Can you be a bit more specific?
I’ve written 3-4 blog posts about her work. Google her name in my search box for more. I should add that I do respect some of her work esp w 972 Magazine. But some of my interactions w her have been less than felicitous esp when she was Global Voices editor for Israel & excluded my work.
Silverstein says to Izik :
“When you’re willing to specify that Israeli should withdraw to 67 borders, recognize Jerusalem as a shared capital, & negotiate the Right of Return, then we can talk. Till then, you’re blown’ hot air.”
Do you mean the Right of Return of Palestinians to within the pre-1967 borders or the Right of Return of Jews to the West Bank or the Right of Return of both peoples to all parts of what used to be called the Mandated Territory of Palestine?
Typically lazy of u not to bother to read what my views are as I’ve written about both issues. First, Jews have no more right to “return” to the West Bank (in fact far less) than Palestinian refugees have to return to Israel. But if a Jew wishes to settle in Palestinian territory & accept Palestinian sovereignty, then I see no reason they should be denied. As long as Israel reciprocates by allowing a reasonable number of those expelled in 48 & their immediate descendants to return to Israel.
Seems fair to me. Are u w. me? Didn’t think so.
Silverstein says: “First, Jews have no more right to “return” to the West Bank (in fact far less) than Palestinian refugees have to return to Israel. But if a Jew wishes to settle in Palestinian territory & accept Palestinian sovereignty, then I see no reason they should be denied. As long as Israel reciprocates by allowing a reasonable number of those expelled in 48 & their immediate descendants to return to Israel.”
Unfortunately, since the Palestinians don’t accept the Jewish Right of Return even to Israel’s pre-1967 borders, it seems unlikely that they would agree to Jewish settlement in a Palestinian state.
You’re once again woefully misinformed. In fact, Rabbi Menachem Froman leads such a movement & has extremely close relations w Hamas. He seeks to remain in the W Bank after a peace treaty & I’m certain his Hamas interlocutors would have no problem w that. Several senior PA leaders have publicly said they’ d have no problem w. Jews remaining as long as they accept Palestinian sovereignty, which most wld never do. The problem dear Simone isn’t in the Palestinian stars but in yourselves & yr settler friends (except for those like Froman), who of course is detested by the Shabak for his coziness w Israel’s future neighbors.
Likewise, there is no awareness of the injustice of Occupation or the fact that justice for Palestine would also enable Israel to pursue new economic and social initiatives.
Has any economist in Israel ever given a projection about this. I mean, if the government budget did not have the military expenditure which is it’s biggest expense.
If so can anyone provide a link, please.
Yes, I wrote a post about a study which estimated Israel had spent $20 billion on costs of Occupation. The study also measured the amount of stultification that resulted within the Israeli economy as a result. I don’t have ready access to my blog archive as I’m relegated to using an iPad for the next few days. But some one might try to search it themselves & rot back if they can find the link.
Shir Hever is an Israeli economist who studies this subject & publishes regularly about it.
“It is ironic and unfortunate that this movement seems to have little awareness of the financial price to be paid by Israel for the burden of Occupation and military budgets which contribute to the impoverishment of Israelis, whether rich or poor (except perhaps those on the defense industry gravy train). Likewise, there is no awareness of the injustice of Occupation or the fact that justice for Palestine would also enable Israel to pursue new economic and social initiatives.”
Of course we are aware. It is why the right’s attempts to silence us so far has been by tagging us as ‘leftists’ and ‘anarchists’.
But we have to tone it down if we want to gain any public supprt. This isn’t about winning an argument at the moment. It’s about bringing about some change, and empowering the people who have been silent for too long; the same people who didn’t go to vote last elections.
If we succeed even partially, then the left might wake up from its stunned comma and the occupation can take centre stage again.
This I’m sorry to say is the same bankrupt thinking that’s gotten the left into the dead end it currently faces. Tone down yr rhetoric so as not frighten the silent majority & then at some unspecified future date the world will be ready to crown the left kingmakers once more. Dream on Macduff.
Silverstein says: “Too bad the truth of the matter is that all those terrified Sderot residents have a far greater likelihood of being run over by an Egged bus or killed in a car accident than in a Qassam attack; while six times as many Palestinians civilians are killed by Israel than Israelis killed by Palestinians.”
No doubt you can produce reliable statistics to prove that, can’t you, Richard? (Please note, the key word here is “reliable”.)
And even if you can – try explaining your “statistics” to a terrified Israeli 6-year old running for cover when the “Colour Red” incoming missile warning is sounding.
he doesn’t have to present anything: all he has to ask you is this simple question:
“in the last, say, 5 years, How many of these poor, poor residents have been killed by a Qassam”?
Somewhere around 20 Israelis have been killed by rockets fired fr Gaza, & that is over something like 8 hrs. 1,100 Gaza civilians we killed in 3 wks time by the IDF.
How many Israelis were killed by Egged buses or car accidents in southern Israeli in the past 8 yes do u think? Less than 20??
And yr weeping for the traumatized children of Sderot would have infinitely more credibility if you shed even half a tear for any of the 300 children killed by the IDF in the 3 wks of Cast Lead.
“And yr weeping for the traumatized children of Sderot would have infinitely more credibility if you shed even half a tear for any of the 300 children killed by the IDF in the 3 wks of Cast Lead.”
I do weep for them, Richard. Do you, or your groupies, ever pause to weep for the children of Sderot? Or the countless victims of Palestinian terror? Like the Fogels, for example?
You’re a liar. In thousands of words here you’ve never said a single word that confirms yr claim. I, on the other hand, have regularly opposed violence by both sides including rocket attacks against Israelis. But by God I won’t let you shed crocodile tears that are insincere at best.
Nor will I allow you to label Palestinians the evildoers when far worse suffering is inflicted by Israeli on Palestinians.
Th problem w you is that you don’t even do any research before insinuating my views, using claims that turn out to be false.
Oh & to be fair, can u show us any other public setting (if not this one) in which u made an explicit statement of support or concern for Palestinians murdered by Israel??
Silverstein says: “You’re a liar”
A blatant case of the pot calling the kettle black, I’m afraid.
“But by God I won’t let you shed crocodile tears that are insincere at best.”
Now see how inconsistent you are being. You have several times said or implied that you’d find my arguments more convincing if I showed some sympathy for Palestinians, or cried for them, or expressed some concern – but when I do, you accuse me of insincerity. You yourself are one of the most insincere – not to mention dishonest – people I have ever encountered. There have been occasions when you have proved yourself an unconscionable liar. You accuse me of not doing any research before insinuating your views – even when I quote YOUR OWN WORDS to prove my point. In previous comments I have made on other threads, you accused me of being a “hasbarist” without me saying a single word in favour of Israel or against the Palestinians, merely because I pointed out a small technical error or two in your own badly-researched (or non-researched) claims.You even contradict yourself from one comment to the next on the same thread.
Well, never mind your own hypocrisy, Richard. I am ready to state, loud and clear, that DESPITE ACTS OF TERRORISM carried out by Palestinians (for which I do NOT hold every single Palestinian responsible), I DO weep for the innocent Palestinian civilians caught in the cross-fire. I will continue to weep for them, even if you and your groupies don’t give a damn about the Israeli victims of Palestinian terror. Compassion, after all, should not be the subject of quid pro quo bargaining. I weep for the children of Gaza. After all, they too are victims of Hamas terror.
You didn’t express any genuine unprompted concern for Palestinian children. You merely responded when challenged by claiming that you did shed tears for them. Again, this isn’t genuine. And I repeat, I challenge you again to show us any previous expression of such concern that was not self-serving in the way yr claim he was. And you have betrayed yr insincerity by claiming you weep for Palestinian dead, but not because of their victimization by Israel, but because of their victimization by Hamas!! This is an example of blaming the victim for their own suffering. And you kvetch & moan when I call u a hasbarist!
You’ve violated comment rules in a major way by calling me a liar & future comments will be moderated for that reason. And the next time you violate another one you may lose privileges entirely.
“I weep for the children of Gaza. After all, they too are victims of Hamas’ terror”
This is the most hypocritical sign of concern I’ve seen for a long time. I deduce that Simone equally holds the State of Israel responsible for the Israeli civilians killed during the suicide-bombings. “After all, they too are victims of Israel’s terror”
As the 15th Century glorified fireworks called Qassams are a major hasbara talking point, I have tried to keep track of the number of Israeli fatalities caused by them – since 2000 there have been FIFTEEN.
I have absolutely no sympathy for those who have had their boots on the Gazans’ necks for so many years bleating about the Gazans’ futile shows of resistance to an illegal occupation.
Indiscriminately attacking civilians is wrong, no matter what the causalities or intent or which side is attacking which. Almost every civilian who is attacked/hurt is only guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time on the wrong side, or being unfortunate enough to be considered a ‘target’.
Well written, and well said. I have two disagreements tough:
1. The protest is well aware of the publics welfare’s sacrfice for the colonialism crimes. Starting from the much chepear leaving costs and taxes in the occupied settelments, and ending with the international bans on Israel. However, the settelment ticket had failed so far to unite massive support. It seems, sadly, that the suffuring of the other is never intersting enough.
However, the general public did understand the it is not the palastinian cause, nor the Arab nations or the european critisicm that is causing him the finincial and day-to-day difficulties, it is the goverment itself.
Ending the occupation should be part of the new revolution, but not all of it. It was not the radical abolitionists in Colonialist France that ended the slavery in Haiti, nor was it the case in the black slavery in America.
It was the people’s understanding that they are also being screwed by the same bastards.
2. I tend to agree with the prediction of Netanyahu’s almost certain future attempt to start some military conflict in order to shut the protest up.
But as for Kuntar’s injury, I think you got it wrong. The Hezbollah himself denies such indication, and has no interest in doing so. It seems more like an internal Hezbollah related affair. When Israel was related, as in the case of Morenia’s assasination, we have seen a much more outraged Nasralla than here.
I previously referred to Silverstein’s outrageous support of Samir Kuntar, but his main point is equally foolish and filled with bane.
To believe that Netanyahu will start a war to draw attention away is simply ludicrous:
1. Netanyahu is prime-minister, not a warlord He cannot simply “start a war”. He needs the support of Ehud Barak and the military leadership.
2. Wars tend to have disastrous political consequences for the leaders who start it. A war wouldn’t benefit Netanyahu, it would do the exact opposite.
3. Netanyahu isn’t an Assad, a Qadaffi or even a Mubarrek. To believe that he would knowingly have Israeli soldiers killed merely for the sake of political gain is ridiculous and hateful.
Enough of this conspiratorial nonsense. I’d expect such nonsense from the foolish and hateful Silverstein, but I’d expect an Israeli to have more sense.
That is a LIE & major comment rule violation. Yr future comments will be moderated. Read the rules & follow them.
Which is I suppose why Shalom Yerushalmi and Yossi Melman have both written columns on this very subject & noted that the subject is widely discussed among the tent encampments. So fella if you’ve got a problem w. the theory take it up w. your fellow Israelis. I only reflect what they’re saying & thinking.
He needs the support of the Group of 7 ministers. He already has Barak’s support for an attack on Iran. Getting such support isn’t an insurmountable obstacle. That was an interesting choice of words in denying Bibi is a “warlord.” Note that YOU used the word, not I.
Not always. The 67 War did wonders for Israel’s leaders. Olmert pursued two disastrous wars in Lebanon & Gaza & it didn’t seem to harm his political reputation. He was brought down by corruption, not unpopularity.
Ah, then I guess you’re accusing your own fellow citizens of hating their leaders and country, which is–well, riduculous.
Write a sentence like this again & you’ll be gone. And don’t test me.