Robert Fisk has penned a major story about billionaire businessman Munib al-Masri, the wealthiest Palestinian perhaps in the Middle East, who played a key role in bringing together Hamas and Fatah for the unity deal which they signed last month in Egypt. What’s especially interesting about this is that al-Masri provides his gloss on the meaning of the agreement for Israeli-Palestinian relations, and he reveals just how many separate power centers, nations and political-intelligence operatives were consulted to make the deal happen.
When you finish reading this (most of you anyway) will want to tip your hat to a man who pulled off one of the greatest deals of the past decade, at least, in Palestinian politics. He did all this from a base he himself created called the Palestine Forum, a group of distinguished Palestinian independents interested in bridging the gaps between the two warring parties. The Forum worked intensively and diligently for four years to bring this about. Partially through its own creativity and perseverance, partially through the parties coming to realize that an agreement lay in their own interest, and perhaps most important of all due to the propitious events of the Arab Spring which worked in their favor–they created a Palestinian political miracle.
The following is part of the conversation with Khaled Meshal that preceded the final acceptance of the agreement:
We told him the government has to be of national unity — on the agreement that we would be able to carry out elections and lift the embargo on Gaza and reconstruct Gaza, that we have to abide by international law, by the UN Charter and UN resolutions…He agreed that resistance must only be ‘in the national interest of the country’ – it would have to be ‘aqlaqi’ – ethical. There would be no more rocket attacks on civilians. In other words, no more rocket attacks from Gaza.”…Hamas agreed on the 1967 border, effectively acknowledging Israel’s existence, and to the reference to the ‘resistance.’
Then al-Masri summarizes his own understanding of the agreement, and the reason why it finessed the question of Hamas participation in a government by appointing a transitional one that would not include Fatah or Hamas affiliated members:
If Hamas was in the government, it would have to recognise the State of Israel. But if they were not, they would not recognise anything. “It’s not fair to say ‘Hamas must do the following’, Masri says…”As long as they are not in the Palestinian government, Hamas are just a political party and can say anything they want. So America should be prepared to see Hamas agreeing on the formation of the government. That government will abide by UN resolutions – and international law. It’s got to be mutual. Both sides realised they might miss the boat of the Arab spring. It wasn’t me who did this – it was a compilation of many efforts. If it was not for Egypt and the willingness of the two Palestinian groups, this would not have happened.” In the aftermath of the agreement, Hamas and Abbas’ loyalists agreed to stop arresting members of each side.
…1967 borders means that Hamas is accepting Israel and the ‘resistance’ initiative means an end to Gaza rockets on Israel. International law and UN resolutions mean peace can be completed and a Palestinian state brought into being.
Ben Caspit has written his own Hebrew version of this article, which includes a searing interview with the Palestine businessman and supporter of the Palestinian national movement. I find this interesting, because Caspit is a generally a supporter of Israel’s far right. It’s hard for me to understand Caspit’s interest in profiling the Fatah-Hamas unity deal in a positive light given the Israeli government’s absolutely allergic reaction to it. But hey, perhaps Caspit’s changing his tune politically or his intelligence sources are finding more to like in the deal than we realize. Whatever the reason, it is a positive development that Caspit is conveying to his readers the thoughts of a major Palestinian figure who explains that Hamas, while not necessarily Israel’s friend, is not the demon it’s made out to be by Bibi & Co. This is an important message for Israelis to here.
But al-Masri was not kind or diplomatic in his words. When Caspi asked why Israelis should believe there can be peace with Palestinians when they had just entered into an agreement with a movement sworn to destroy Israel, al-Masri replied:
This is foolishness. You disappoint me every time anew. You’re simply unwilling to listen to the other side, only to yourselves. You go to Washington and persuade members of Congress, make a big show of it, instead of quieting down and listening. If you really listened to Khaled Meshal’s speech at the reconciliation ceremony in Egypt you would’ve heard three fundamental principles. These are the three principles which we worked on with Hamas and for which we achieved recognition.
Hamas agreed to the 67 lines as a basis for a settlement. It gave Abu Mazen the credit [if he succeeds] and opportunity to continue the peace process. And Hamas agreed that resistance could only happen in a national context [as part of a process worked out among the parties]. No longer would every armed group carry out its own military attacks.
These are three enormous achievements. Similarly, they agreed to stop rocket fire from Gaza. So tell me, what’s so bad about this for starters? Why do you have to respond in a panic as you have done?
Hasn’t the time come for you to understand what Palestinians want? They want something simple. The 22% of the territory of Palestine about which we’ve agreed to compromise [67 borders]. What was agreed in Oslo. Our share of Jerusalem [East Jerusalem]. The creation of two states in harmony and friendship. Palestinians want to end the Occupation. Believe me that I’m realistic and know what I’m talking about. This isn’t propaganda. These are facts.
You talk about peace. But you don’t really want peace. Look, almost every one of your senior intelligence officials when the leave their positions all of a sudden become men of peace. I ask myself: why doesn’t this happen when they’re still serving? And what happens to them when they come into government [that they oppose peace]?
Caspit continues with a bit of sophistry in questioning al-Masri, claiming that Israelis have learned to believe Arabs when they say the “unpleasant things” they do against Israel, and that these words are not a basis of negotiation but of continuing war. To which the Palestinian replies:
Not true. You see what’s convenient for you to see. You tell me what’s wrong with the Palestinian people uniting in one leadership? It’s good for us and good for you and good for the peace process. How can it be since the split between Hamas and Fatah, that you can claim it’s impossible to negotiate with Palestinians since you don’t know who you should be talking with, and suddenly when we do unite you say [to Fatah]: “It’s either them or us.”
You have a lot of nerve. We united in order to show that there was a real Palestinian partner, that there is a real chance for peace. And after we achieve such monumental things, you respond by disseminating such twisted facts.
…You simply cannot create a Palestinian state without such a unity deal. So we united. And what do you do? Shut the door instead of pouncing on the opportunity.
Among the other interesting things revealed in Caspit’s story is that al-Masri’s grandson, who was named after him, was severely wounded by an IDF bullet in the Nakba Day protests along the border with Southern Lebanon. He dropped everything and flew to Beirut to sit by his bedside. Though he’d lost many friends to the Intifada and other military operations, the injury to his grandson was especially hard because the latter represented to him the future. The boy had been 15-20 meters inside Lebanese territory when he took a sniper’s bullet in the back. He lost a kidney and his spleen, his spinal cord is severed. He lost a great deal of blood. He took a dum-dum bullet which caused grave damage.
Caspit is so tone-deaf that he asks al-Masri why a boy who has everything in life including great wealth would take part in an assault on the Israeli fence. To which the long-time supporter of the Palestinian national resistance replies:
Because he is a member of a generation which does not forget. Golda and Ben Gurion, your leaders, said that the old would die and the young forget and so the problem of the refugees would be solved. But the young haven’t forgotten. He’s already the third generation. And he still wants to return to his homeland. He still dreams about it. You don’t understand this. You think that if you refuse to acknowledge it, it will go away. But it won’t. It’s a problem that must be solved.
Caspit asks, again cluelessly, whether the boy regrets what he did. To which the grandfather says:
No, he plans to return along with his friends. They will not give up.
…You cannot force people to give up their aspirations to return to their homes. It’s a natural wish. You also cannot dodge the moral and human problem resulting from the creation of the State of Israel and its decision to come [to this region]. The only way to solve this is the sit down and talk. The 2002 Arab peace initiative is a good basis to start. But to my sadness, you Israelis are boors. You don’t want to hear about such things. You only want to think your distorted thoughts which aren’t based on real recognition of us, but rather on narrow-mindedness, boorishness and prejudice.
What are you afraid of? The Arab Initiative says the refugee problem has to be resolved in a way that is just and mutually agreed. That means that you will have to agree to the solution as well [or it won’t work]. But Bibi first must recognize that there is a problem. And he must say to himself: it was caused because of our actions. And we have a moral and national obligation [to solve it]. First admit that you have a problem, and then we can talk about solving it with the help of all the nations, even the Arab world, all of us together…
I am sure that we can come up with a solution acceptable to the refugess and to you. But it’s necessary to be creative and flexible. It is possible. Why not try?
Caspit, again naïvely, asks why then the Palestinians won’t return to the negotiating table when Bibi has called upon them to do so many times. Al-Masri responds:
Bibi first tells us “No.” Count the number of rejections in his Washington speech: No to 67 borders, no to Jerusalem, no to refugees. No, no, no. You want to talk and in the meantime you continue to build. Since Rabin’s murder do you know how many houses you built in the Territories and in Jerusalem? And you want us to sit back and clap our hands? It’s not fair. You are pigs. You want to swallow everything, eat the entire cake, and then you want peace as well. You have quite a healthy appetite. You on the one hand want peace and on the other want to continue what you’ve been doing.
…If you don’t stop, you’ll turn into South Africa. It will go in the direction of a single state. You’ll regret you didn’t accept Nelson Mandela. You’ll long for a two state solution. Why don’t you see this?
When the Maariv reporter asks whether al-Masri doesn’t think Israel has a right to fear the consequences of paying the price for peace given its history, the Palestinian says:
No, you have a Shoah mentality. Leave the ghetto. God Almighty, enough already. You talk about the price of peace? What about us? We’ve lost the right to 78% of our lands. Most of our people live as refugees in other lands. And you want to talk about the price YOU pay?
The entire interview is worth reading. I’ve translated most of it, but the man is so smart, so sensible and Caspit is so damn, well you heard the man, boorish. It’s a perfect exemplar of the mess we face. But at least you’ll read the ideas of a Palestinian who see clearly and is far-sighted. Would that there was an Israeli leader who saw as clearly.
Caspit also notes that al-Masri may be a candidate for a major position in the transitional government since he is not affiliated with either side directly and so would be eligible for participation. At the age of 75, he may be willing to answer the call of his people to broker and ensure the success of this unity deal.
I wish the Palestinians all the success in the world in bringing unity, i think its an Israeli interest.
however due to their differences, i think this deal would fail shortly. there are signs that that’s the route this agreement has taken.
for example, the fact that they can’t agree on a PM
http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/249/415.html?hp=1&cat=404&loc=1
I don’t think you’re the person to tell us what the Palestinians will or won’t do. If perhaps you weren’t so patently self-serving in yr views. There are absolutely NO signs the agreement is failiing. Doesn’t mean it won’t. It just mean you’d love to celebrate the death of the deal but rumors of its death which you are peddling are premature.
The PM issue is stupid. For Fatah to try to pawn Fayyad off on Hamas is ridiculous. He’s a toady of Abbas & Fatah.
I finally realized something, you are suffering from a little man complex. that’s why you are so hostile.
good luck, i will no longer be reading your blog, you are simply an idiot.
i stated my opinion, yet you insist in telling me what i think and what i want, you are simply a liar.
You went from being moderated to being banned within 30 minutes. That’s pretty quick.
We don’t know whether unity will survive or fail. We do know that, in any case, this unity is irrelevant to the right wing in Israel, to Bibi & Co. It is good to expose the hypocrisy of Israeli cant: The claim that there is no “partner” to the “peace process.” It is good to expose that “peace” is not on the Israeli agenda (and has not been on the agenda since Rabin). Israel wants all the land, all the power, and the destruction of the Palestinian way of life, if not their physical destruction outright. You have to know, to understand, the Bibi’s, these parading, self-assured morons and their tanks and planes.
I am afraid that Yoram was right
Hamas announced today that his nominee for the Unity “Technocrat” Government is Haniyeh.
Which means, that Hamas is not honoring the Unity deal which specifies that the government will be composed of non political Technocrats such as Fayad.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4081928,00.html
What a laugh. Fayyad, a puppet of Fatah is a “non political technocrat, while Haniyeh is a Hamas hack. C’mon. Neither side wants this to work or they’d have agreed to a real independent candidate behind closed doors.
The only one who wins here is Bibi & his supporters commenting in this thread.
i’ll wait and see.
i just hope that in the meantime no politician (arab or otherwise) unexpectedly gets run over, develops a fever, stop breathing, or gets a bullet delivered to his head. netanyahu is dangerous when cornered and may act irrationally especially now that his zionist logic isn’t working anymore. we can expect anything from a blind hardened jabotinsky zionist like him: a dreamer who would rather die inside his dream than wake up to the new reality in his bedroom.
incendiary article, Richard. Would be so great if you posted the whole Caspit interview with your annotations. Regards from the land of rising radiation, am colleague of Michael Furmanovsky…
So nice to meet you. A friend of Michael’s is a friend of mine.
I translated 80% of the interview. This man & his views are so lucid, so refreshing. It’s no wonder he’s a billionaire. If he runs his businesses the same way he thinks customers will flock to him.
Thank you Richard for mentioning his crippled grandson-an American citizen. My congressman, whom I have written, doesn’t care about this American–he’s too busy with his springboard ass cheering Bibi.
I particularly like the part on al-Masri’s grandson participating in the Nakba Day protests, and Caspit showing that he doesn’t have a clue to what the Palestinians feel, that not all the money in the world can compensate the loss of Palestine, the loss of dignity – and a Palestinian national identity.
I’m asking out of ignorance, when was the Palestinian identity formed and by whom (key figures) ?
I would say: Slightly before the Israeli ….
Interestingly enough, his name, al-Masri means the “Egyptian”. That means he family are relatively recent immigrants ot the country. How “Palestinian” is he really?
Just how “Israeli” are you? I bet he’s been in Palestine longer than your family was in Israel.
Since when did you become a specialist on Arabic family names ? Someone also tried to justify the eviction of a family in Sheikh Jarrah because with the name al-Kurdi they didn’t belong there.
Israeli identity in that part of the world, started way before Muhammad was even born.
Would you like to continue this meaningless conversation, or would you like to answer to the point ?
“Would you like to continue …”
No, in fact, I wouldn’t.
First of all, because it’s not the topic on this file and I know it’s a red herring. Secondly, because I’ve had this debate here innumerable times with all kind of Israelis from the ‘Golda-The-Palestinians-No-Such-Thing-Exist-Meir’-types to the ‘Why-Don’t-You-Just-Move-To-Jordan-You’re-All-The-Same-Anyhow’-types.
On another occasion, when I’m in the mood, I’ll tell you the story of my ancestor in the Galilee who received YOUR ancestor when he came from Ur in present day Iraq. What was his name ? Oh yes … Abraham.
I don’t see what Muhammad, I guess you talk about the Prophet, has to do with Palestinian identity. He was born in Mecca …
I also note that you swicthed – inconsciencly ? – from my ‘Palestinian NATIONAL identity – to mere ‘Palestinian identity’. The same distinction goes for the Jewish/Israeli identity, the Nation-State being a contemporary political concept.
As an Israeli i know the history of my country / nation i know the figures i know the contribution, i know their views etc.
for most Israeli’s Palestinian national identity (i’m sorry omitting national previously) started with Amin al-Husayni (and for us he isn’t a role model) and continued with Yasser Arafat (who was born in Cairo)
i was asking a serious question, and i’m sorry you chose to answer the way you did.
Al-Masri was right about few things, one of them is that we don’t know the other side, i want to know, what better then this forum to acquire knowledge ?
You mean you know the history of yr country as it was taught to you in school & as reflected through yr particular political-ideological blinders.
I would say that’s true of most right wing Israelis, though not necessarily “most Israelis.” And the fact that your knowledge of Palestinian nationalism is so shallow is yet another aspect of the tragedy of this conflict. Palestinians know MUCH MORE of yr history than you do of theirs. If you were smart, you’d try to learn more about them. As I said, there are a number of excellent works on this subject in my Amazon store. I urge you pick one & read it.
If you’re serious, then let’s suggest some good texts on Palestinian history & nationalism. I have Rashid Khalidi in my Store & Joel Migdal’s and Kimmerling’s book on Palestinian nationalism. And here’s a book about Hamas & its history. Read one of them. You’ll learn a lot.
Precision is a good thing. So let’s be precise, shall we? There was no “Israeli” identity before 1948. I suppose one can argue whether there is even an Israeli identity now. But for argument’s sake let’s concede there is. But there certainly was no Israeli identity before ’48.
There was a Jewish identity before then. There was an ancient Israelite identity. But don’t confuse the two (or three). They’re NOT the same. Your contemporary identity is not the same as an inhabitant of the Kingdom of David. Yes, you may share certain affinities. But your identity is simply not the same.
Israeli national identity did not spring up over night. It formed, gradually, since just before 1880. Much younger than the totally irrelevant red herring prophet, but still slightly older than the palestinian one.
Frankly, though, I care rather little for national dignity – our’s and thier’s. I think our chief concern is human rights.
The question should be “what about Israeli identity based on Zionism”?
Is it credible to say that 3000 years ago a tribe existed in these parts that shares DNA with Jews who came from different parts of the world and in particular Eastern bloc nations and whose descendants and I use the term loosely, came to Palestine 63 years ago to stake a 3000 year old claim and justify the use of force and cleansing to do so?
We all know there was a British occupied Palestine whose inhabitants were living there peacefully with a minority of Jews UNTIL the cry of Zionism, the usurper, started to spread.
What we really should ask is: how far did Zionism go to cleanse Palestine of PALESTINIANS and whitewash their history?
How nice of you to totally reject another nation’s rights, while heavily editing history.
You are little different from israeli right-wingers.
I do have to admit one thing, which sadely few other israelis can admit – while I totally reject your rather vile views, had I lived for even a day under occupation, I would embrace them.
Ofcourse it’s just as possible that I’ve seen more of it than you…
Was this meant as a reply to Kalea? If so, I’m confused about what you’re criticizing.
I’m criticizing what seems to me like rabid anti zionism.
“I do have to admit one thing, which sadely few other israelis can admit – while I totally reject your rather vile views, had I lived for even a day under occupation, I would embrace them.”
So you can’t embrace these views because you don’t live under Occupation. Instead you find them vile. Really?
So what you’re really telling me then is that you lack EMPATHY. Because it’s not happening to you my views are vile, but if you were suffering under Occupation you would embrace them…where’s the logic in that?
You understand that Occupation is cruel and unjust but you attack me instead of the cause because you’re so lucky not to have to experience and it’s easier to turn on me than to risk getting out of your “comfort zone”.
My point is that I can’t demand that the victim respect the rights of the criminal.
This does not mean the criminal has no rights. It sure doesn’t mean the criminal had no rights BEFORE he even commited the crime. It also doesn’t mean I can’t atleast HOPE that the victim does understand the rights of the criminal. And it doesn’t mean I can’t demand anyone else other than the victim to respect the rights of the criminal.
Fighting for palestinian rights, which I do, doesn’t need to mean rejecting jewish national rights. For you to condemn jews as usurpers IS vile. It’s even more vile to undermine jewish rights with such blatant disregard for historical accuracy, implying that jewish historical rights are not credible.
Oh one more thing: You’re asking out of “ignorance”? How very presumptuous of you to imagine that we would buy that your question is solely based on humility and your desire to be informed rather than IGNORANT. My guess is that you try to play us for fools, but your bait stinks a mile away.
Oh, puh-leeze. There are entire scholarly tomes on this subject. Please read them & don’t expect us to educate you on such basic, elementary matters. I have a number of books in my Amazon store linked in my blogroll which will answer yr question if indeed it’s meant sincerely.
But if you want to get into an argument about whether there is a Palestinian identity you’re NOT going to do it here. Do you understand? That is off topic & treads dangerously close to violating a basic comment rule that neither Israeli nor Palestinian national identity may be denied.
please stop being an ignorant smart aleck(!)
tell me who is a jew and i’ll tell you who is an arab.
tell me who is an israeli and i’ll tell you who is a palestinian.
Friends of the grandson created a Facebook page to show support for him: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Friends-of-Munib/149063691831265
Thank you. There is one message that is worth reading:
Dorothy Naor:
“Hi Munib, I’m an Israeli Jew who opposes the occupation and believes in the ROR for the Palestinians. I would gladly give up my house that I have lived in for 53 years for you and other Palestinians to have justice. I hope that you will recover fully soon, and that we may have here a single secular state with equal right for all its citizens, and that all my Palestinian friends will be able to visit me wherever I live just as I am able to visit them.
All the best and big hugs.
Dorothy”
Long live Dorothy Naor.
Dorothy Naor and her husband are among the Israelis I am proud to call my friends. She devotes a great deal of her time and resources to driving Israelis into the West Bank to show them the reality of the occupation and its terrible impact on the indigenous people of Palestine. She once drove me around Ariel settlement which frankly made me sick. All that gloating and bragging and splashing around in swimming pools and washing fancy cars, while below the Palestinians in humble villages have barely enough water for their survival.
I was deeply moved when I read her message to Munib al-Masri, and I looked at her facebook-page. What a beautiful woman, and she has beautiful friends too: Yael Lerer (that I heard recently speaking with Jamal Zahalka, the leader of Balad), Jeff Halper, Arik Ascherman .. Reading her message made my day.
And you’re right, the stealing of water is one of the most perverse injusticies: Israel steal 73% of the water in the West Bank, the settlers another 10% on their own, leaving 17% to the Palestinians.
I won’t give up my house, nor would the vast majority of israelis. This is a very principle problem with ROR, that I don’t often see addressed. I could live, if I had to, with half a million refugees. But they could never get their homes back. And where would that leave us? Refugee camps INSIDE israel?
Not that I live in a stolen home, nor would I ever.
Duck, I really believe you have a logic problem in your thinking and I understand why. First of all you state you would never give up your house, then you state you don’t live in a stolen home. Ergo, you don’t have to give it up. But because it’s yours you would never give it up…then why should Palestinians be forced to give up on theirs?
Then you state you would never live in a stolen home but you stated Palestinians could never get their stolen property back. I believe you’re contradicting yourself here. See that’s the problem with Zionism; it’s full of these types of moral “dilemmas” or contradictions. This is what tells me that it’s WRONG, it’s flawed, it’s immoral and unjust.
By the way, don’t dramatize. Israelis won’t have to go to refugees camps to allow for ROR. But again you understand that being forced to be a refugee is cruel, so why can’t you understand how Palestinians feel having had to GIVE UP THEIR HOMES AND BECOME REFUGEES??
Another problem with Zionism, it makes you renounce a God-given gift: compassion (empathy).
No logic problem.
I do not live in a stolen home. Nor would I. So I won’t ever be asked to leave it for a refugee.
But I would not ask any israeli to leave his home. And if I discovered, some day, that my home WAS stolen, I would probably not leave it for a refugee (even if I would feel rather motivated by shame to shorten my stay as much as possible).
Point being that Naor’s offer is not only unrealistic on any larger scale, but should not, in good faith, be expected to be repeated by any other israeli.
I never forced any palestinians to leave their homes. I’m trying to stop the people doing that. Little success so far.
“Then you state you would never live in a stolen home but you stated Palestinians could never get their stolen property back. I believe you’re contradicting yourself here.”
Complicated, not contradictory.
Israelis won’t have to go to refugee camps. The refugees would. Where would we put half a million palstinian refugees? They would get to live inside israel, but this doesn’t seem like the justice they have in mind, keeping sixty year old keys.
I think there are other Israelis who would give up their homes to Palestinian refugess esp. if an international fund paid them fair market value for them on condition that the refugee family move into it. This is an example of the creative thinking which hardly anyone appears to be using to figure out ways to resolve this problem.
Not at all. You don’t understand the proposals circulated by Geneva Accords & others. All refugees wouldn’t return at once. They’d return over a finite period, say 5 or 10 yrs which would give Israel & world community enough time to fund, plan & build the new communities, housing & infrastructure needed for them. This would be a planned process, not a helter skelter one.
Israel absorbed hundreds of thousands of Russian Jews. How did it do that? Is it rocket science? Israel has absorbed hundreds of thousands of refugees at numerous pts in its history. Why not again? What’s the problem?
Will this be easy? No. But if Israelis go into thinking it can’t or won’t work, guess what–it won’t. Then you’ll have civil war or something like it. But why does it have to get to that? As al Masri says, with good faith one can move mtns. With bad faith, you die.
By the way I just visioned a vey interesting short program on neo-nazi groups among Russian immigrants in Israel. According to specialists, 400.000 Russian immigrants to Israel has no link to Judaism and only very remote ‘genetic’ Jewish ancestors but managed to get to Israel anyway, mostly as kids.
Hearing the worst anti-semitic shit in the heart of Israel is just incredible, as one Rabbi said, ant the authorities are keeping a very low profile.
400.000 Russians : that’s the amount of Palestinians that will most likely return if they had the choice.
Sometimes I just feel sick about this country.
Thanks for that Chas.
First, thank you for this interesting and informative post.
Second, do you think that the unity deal will hold up? Some recent news articles do not bode well.
From Ma’an News:
Hamas: No role for Fayyad in unity govt
From Ha’aretz:
Palestinian unity in peril as Hamas rejects Fatah’s Fayyad as PM
So what! There will no doubt be many differences of opinion and heated discussions before some trust is established. After all, the PA has been bankrolled by the U.S. for some time; it’ll take some time for them to get used to the idea that they are beholden first and foremost to the Palestinian people and Hamas is there to ensure they don’t forget that ever again. This is all good and good things don’t necessarily come easy.
The majority of the Palestinian people believe that Fayyad is the best candidate to run the new government. It is actually Hamas who is going against the will of the Palestinian people by rejecting the possibility of Fayyad as PM.
Bullshet. Fayyad is not trusted by the majority. Where’s your link to a credible poll?
As far as I know, the only Palestinian leader embraced by the majority of Palestinians is Marwan Barghouti.
Many Palestinians view Fayyad as another U.S. stooge.
Poll: Fayyad Best Candidate to Run New Government
BEIT SAHOUR, May 17, 2011 (WAFA) – A public opinion poll published Tuesday by the Beit Sahour-based Palestinian Center for Public Opinion (PCPO) found out that 53% of the Palestinian respondents believe that Prime Minister Salam Fayyad is the best candidate to head the new unity government.
http://www.wafa.ps/english/index.php?action=detail&id=16167
Wafa is the Fatah media outlet. Of course they’re running a poll that favors Fayyad. Bob, consider yr source & know what it represents before you pass it off as reliable. There are reliable, credible opinion pollsters in Palestine. Clearly, the one you quote has an agenda.
It’s possible that the Fayyad sales job on the Palestinian people has had some effect.
Fayyad’s plan is failing as recent economic statistics coming out of the West Bank demonstrate. Unfortunately, Palestinians are being swayed by a mirage meant to deceive them into thinking that things are getting better economically UNDER THE OCCUPATION.
Fayyad’s sudden rise to power is highly suspect seeing as Israel and the U.S. continuously sing his praises.
I honestly hope Palestinians will discover before it’s too late that Fayyad is another Abbas, a U.S. stooge selling them down the river for his own ambitions to hold on to power.
Never have Israeli settlements flourished and expanded as while Abbas was in power. Fayyad will no doubt allow Israelis to continue this process and make a deal that will make him head of a state within a larger more powerful state…a kind of legalized Apartheid system and THAT will be the end of Palestine and the dead end for millions of refugees.
I want to add that as weak and bad as Abbas has been as leader practically looking the other way while a flood of new settlers took possession of the West Bank; I believe Fayyad will allow the Israelis to destroy the Palestinians’ chance at a state of their own or to be recognized as citizens of one state with full rights.
It seems to me that the reason Israelis are wishing and hoping that Fayyad replaces Abbas is because Fayyad is actually fulfilling Netanyahu’s plan for the Palestinians; a plan based on modest economic viability and a kind of “satellite state” of Israel (which is a euphemism for continued Occupation and Apartheid) with its own leadership and institutions, but very limited powers and the status quo as far as Occupied land and refugees are concerned. This is Israelis most cherished delusion, aside from completely cleansing the Palestinians from their land or annexing the bantustans to Jordan. This is how Israelis intend to make the Occupation official and Apartheid legal and Fayyad is stupidly doing their dirty work.
Palestinians will wake up before Fayyad destroys their dream completely.
agree with kalea.
a year or so ago i said and repeated on this blog to beware of MahmoudAbbas (AbuMazen) for he is a MossadMole. just keep your eyes open in the next two to three months for actions/suggestions by AbuMazen or Fayyad for the palestinians to postpone their attempt at UN(GA) recognition. AbuMazen (and Fayyad) better resign and go back home to haifa. leave Palestine’s future to the true Palestinians.
Say what? Who woke up & made you an expert on what the Palestinian people believe? By what right to you deputize yrself in this fashion? Besides, claiming the Palestinians support Fayyad as PM is nonsense. What opinion poll says this? And even if one does, which I doubt, Hamas won’t accept Fayyad & Hamas is a partner in this deal. The deal called for government ministers NOT AFFILIATED with either entity. Fayyad is the leader of the current Fatah dominated PA. Hence he’s not eligible.
My comment was based on the recent Palestinian opinion poll that I posted above. I certainly do not purport to be an expert on what the Palestinian people believe – I can only go off what I read in polls and surveys.
The poll indicated that Fayyad was the most popular choice for PM. It was conducted by the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion and reported in a Palestinian news source.
I would respectfully point out that there is another recent poll, this one from the Jerusalem Media & Communications Center which also lists Fayyad as the most popular choice for PM of the unity government.
I am not sure if you would consider that poll more reputable than the other one, but it can be found on their website (www.jmcc.org).
Also, it was my understanding that Fayyad was a member of the “Third Way” party and would thus be eligible to serve as a government minister in the transitional government since he is neither Hamas nor Fatah.
Bob, c’mon. Would you trust an opinion poll in Yisrael HaYom saying that the vast majority of Israelis supported Bibi to continue as PM? Of course you wouldn’t if you knew anything about Israeli politics & media. So don’t go all innocent & naive on us. This poll clearly was conducted by Fatah on behalf of Fatah & published in a Fatah media outlet.
BTW, how would such an opinion poll have polled Gaza respondents since Palestinians cannot freely travel to & from Gaza?
Fayyad has been Fatah’s pony for the yrs he’s served as PM in the rump Fatah led gov’t. He’s Fatah through & through. Even if he’s not a member of Fatah, it doesn’t matter. He’s fully identified w. Fatah through his service.
Thank you for pointing out the potentially suspect nature of the poll that I cited above.
Here is a link to an article about another poll from a different polling organization showing similar results.
Poll Shows Fayyad Most Favored By Palestinians For Role Of PM
A new poll conducted by Jerusalem Media and Communications Centre has shown that incumbent Palestinian PM Salam Fayyad is the most favoured among Palestinians to lead the next unity government.
http://www.imemc.org/article/61407
Do you have reason to believe that the results of this second poll are also questionable?
I’ll look at it later. But any poll that is either conducted by a group with vested political interests, or undercounts or doesn’t at all Gaza political sentiment is suspect at best & invalid at worst. I don’t think Gazans want Fayyad as their PM & I think Fatah nominating him is an act of bad faith on their part.
According to the Methodology section of the second poll, 750 of those sampled were from the West Bank and 448 were from the Gaza Strip.
The poll itself breaks down the totals so that you can see the results for just the West Bank, just the Gaza Strip, or both combined.
One of the question asks: “Who do you think is the most appropriate Palestinian independent figure to assume the post of PM in the coming national reconciliation government as stipulated in the reconciliation agreement?”
By far the most popular choice of individuals was Salam Fayyad. He was about 20 percentage points ahead of the next most popular named individual. Although he was just about tied with the second most popular response, “I don’t trust any one”.
Interestingly, the percentage of people who selected Fayyad in response to this question was higher among those in Gaza than those in the West Bank.
Do you, like Yoram WANT it not to hold up? I don’t know whether it will or not. But if I were an Israeli I would want it to hold up & support it for that reason. Because if it fails there will be another war with a year & hundreds more Israelis will die & thousands more Palestinians (or Syrians or Lebanese depending in which theater the war is fought).
I want there to be a peaceful two-state solution with an end to the occupation and the establishment of a viable Palestinian state next to Israel.
I would like to see this all come to pass with as little violence as is humanly possible.
If the failure of the unity agreement will inevitably lead to another war within a year and Israelis, Palestinians, and others dying in large numbers then I certainly would not want it to fail.
Is it possible that the failure of the unity agreement could result in a different outcome than what you described?
No, it’s not possible. As long as the Palestinians are not unified Israel will not deal. As long as there is no peace agreement Israel will continue gobbling land, building settlements & bullying its neighbors to get its way.
But excuse me Richard here, Israel is not after peace treaty but peace negotiation. Unity or not is the same for Bibi. I know Livni sees otherwise, yet the leftists in Israel believe that a Palestinian state is better that the status-co, cause a state boarders can then be drawn through negotiations….etc.
Peace has a Nobel meaning and mission that requires hard work. Israel is not ready and will never be ready under. This is an unequal equation with more than two constants “No Jerusalem, No 1967 boarders…etc” , Palestinian land is occupied…Full Stop….who had 2000 years ago is Bull, I am a Christian and bible is clear, so let us not go back to history and let us not mention Amin Husseiny, i agree and have read to Rashid KLhaldi and other respected Jewish authors about history.
Thank you for the meaningful discussion and please excuse some ignorant Palestinians like Deir Yassin who is wrong in his fiery reply to Yoram..
I’m not sure what you’re criticizing regarding Deir Yassin, who is a “her,” not “him.” And she’s definitely not “ignorant.” I’d take it a bit slower & try to get to know commenters a bit before you decide who’s wrong & who’s right.
But as for your other comments they seem entirely reasonable to me.
Unlike that stooge Abbas, I believe Al-Masri has paid a personal price that helps him see clearly. I’m having a hard time reconciling his wealth with his sincerity on the Palestinian issue because the majority of Palestinians live in abject poverty, but I’ll take him at his word and his word sounds good, for now.
But, I have no faith whatsoever in Israelis, their leadership or even in the majority of the Israeli population and I believe that they are the only impediment left for a just resolution to this conflict and peace. And what an impediment!
Let me say this for the record and I don’t want to come back and say: I told you so; believe me that’s the last thing I want and that’s not my intention.:
Israelis are going to sabotage all attempts at peace. Israelis are embracing Apartheid as the solution to their paranoia. The world will have to choose between the LAW, justice, peace and ILLEGAL OCCUPATION AND APARTHEID. It will be a dicey proposition and because we are referring to the “eternal victims” here, some EU countries and the U.S. will try to ignore the Law and circumvent it to appease Zionists who with their “anti-Semitism” card, their “eternal victim” card, their we’re the only democracy and real friend you have in the region and behind all this their nuclear Samson option will hold these countries hostage and try to stop them from adhereing to the Law and their conscience.
The rest of the world will move towards sanctions and BDS, but the U.S. will continue to veto the “S” and the U.S. and Canada with Harper in charge will make delegitimization attempts against Israel illegal in their respective countries.
This is my prediction. So all these very laudable efforts by Palestinians and everyone who supports them will be railroaded by the Zionists and their world-wide influence in the end.
An unbelievable precedent will be set: Israel may be the first country in the world to legalize APARTHEID and all kinds of excuses will be made for it. This is where we’re heading and nothing good will come from this, and there will be great, great resentment against Zionists worldwide and their Apartheid country called Israel.
Herzl and Jabotinsky implied Apartheid in Zionism and that is truth, not some deluded, fantasy version of Zionism that will never come to fruition.
Either the world recognizes the injustice of Zionism and forces Israel to surrender all land it occupied in 67 and do right by the refugees or the Palestinians will be forced to live under Apartheid and we will all be responsible for a crime against humanity and the consequences that will result from it.
I agree with Kalea. Meanwhile, for Yorem, the best way to learn is by reading, and I recommend the book mentioned below.
At one time, I was for a two-state solution, but have come to realize that it will never happen, and was never intended to happen. It is disingenuous to pretend, like J Street does for example, that it will or can. Thus the only way forward, whether Israel wants it or not, is to press for a secular, binational state. Don’t do away with Israel, but do away with the “Jewish” state. If you would like to look deeper into the subject, you could do worse than getting a copy of Ilan Pappé’s new book, “The Forgotten Palestinians: a History of the Palestinians in Israel”, which I am currently reading. His views coincide with my own, which I have held since the creation of Israel as a state.
While my comment on al-Masri shows up, I want to add to my reply to “Bob Mann” above with the following analogy on Fayyad that just occured to me.:
Fayyad is to Israel what Col. Nicholson was to the Japanese in Bridge on the River Kwai. He’s helping the Israelis destroy Palestinian sovereignty and statehood with the “perfect bridge” intended to legalize Apartheid or make it “palatable”.
He’s actually putting Netanyahu’s (Col. Saito’s) “economic” plan for Palestinians in motion and “collaborating” with the enemy by creating institutions UNDER OCCUPATION and thus sabotaging Palestinian sovereignty and the refugees’ rights.
Hamas obviously see this and that’s why they’re rejecting Fayyad as P.M.
again i agree with kalea except for one thing.
in “the bridge on the river kwai” colonel nicholson intent was not to help the japanese achieve their objective but to show the japanese camp commander that western civilization is way better than japanese civilization. unlike AbuMazen the MossadMole and Fayyad Colonel Nicholson woke up at the end of the movie and blew up the bridge he helped build. contrary to nicholson’s motivation, IMO the MossadMole and Fayyad act consciously for (like the israelis for whom they work) they look down on the palestinians and their ability to rule themselves. this is why both must go from the political scene and go now.
Yes, it’s true that Col. Nicholson was attempting to “school” the Japanese or undermine their own capacity. But you understood my point, whatever his ulterior motives he was the “perfect collaborator” and ultimately, traitor.
It’s also possible that Fayyad believes he too has some kind of lofty personal agenda for constructing the framework under Occupation that will make Apartheid “legal” and the Occupation permanent, but he’s become the perfect vehicle for Netanyahu’s plan. He’s in the process of building that lesser, satellite state that will never achieve sovereignty. Why should Palestinians be deprived of sovereignty when Israel borders with other sovereign unfriendly countries and must adapt to that reality? The problem is that Israelis stole so much land that they created a situation whereby Palestinians are too close for their comfort and Israeli paranoia and greed will never give up the Occupation and they will never allow Palestinians full rights as citizens either…hence Fayyad, who is offering Zionists the way out of their dilemma by setting up this symbiotic relationship with Israel in which Palestinians must sacrifice their sovereignty and right of return for the survival of the Jewish State and in return they get “some” economic and social structure viability.
I seriously question Fayyad’s loyalty to the Palestinian cause even though he sometimes shows himself at protests. It’s bizarre; he’s so much like Col. Nicholson in that sense. I question why Israelis sing his praises, I question the accolades he received for his speech at the Herzliya Conference. And I question this strange endorsement:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/palestinian-pm-supports-israel-s-stanley-fischer-for-imf-top-job-1.367308
Could Fayyad, like Col. Nicholson, be so deluded by his “achievements” and fooled by the praise he gets from Israelis that he doesn’t realize how he has become the perfect TOOL of Israeli Occupation and Apartheid?
Like Col. Nicholson he’s such the perfect collaborator to the point one might even be tempted to suspect he’s a Manchurian Candidate. If he continues to get this cozy with Zionism Palestinians will start believing he IS the “Zionist Candidate”, and whether he is or not, I hope they begin to see where he’s leading them.
Mandela would never betray his people like this.
Sorry, I just want to add this very important point: Mandela wouldn’t betray his people like this, BECAUSE he suffered an egregious injustice by being wrongfully imprisoned for so long and so this experience made him one with his people. He wasn’t an elitist.
Fayyad is another case. He was educated in Beirut and in the States. He held important positions. Not that I’m against a good education and success, but he seems to have lived a life of comfort and in my opinion was pretty sheltered from the Palestinian experience.
How Palestinians could ever trust him is beyond me.
His somewhat vulgar taste in architecture aside, I agree with this man.
It’s a shame that the Palestinians are stuck with Abbas on the one hand – who is hardly less corrupt than the venal butchers of Jordan, Syria and the rest – and the amateurish so-called ‘resistance’ of Hamas on the other.
I thought it was odd that he picked a Venetian villa when he could’ve built something in the Roman style that might’ve actually stood in ancient Palestine.
“His somewhat vulgar taste in architecture aside”
Yes, it is rather ostentatious considering the situation of the average Palestinian. Although I find it distasteful, I did appreciate what he stated and especially what he said about his grandson’s own struggle.
I hope he’s different from Palestinian leaders who have betrayed the struggle of Palestinians through the years with their own personal ambitions.
I did not translate the portion of the interview which makes clear that he built his villa during one of the Intifadas & employed hundreds of workers from Nablus. It was thus the only form of employment in the region for several years. Something important to keep in mind.
Yes it’s reassuring he put Palestinians to work building his home and I do like what he said.
Palestinians need more influential people in their midst standing up for their rights instead of pursuing personal and foreign agendas.
[comment deleted for violation of comment rules–no proselytizing permitted]
Hi all , The thing with the Israeli Palestinian is that it can never be settled with our leaders. We have to solve the problem among ourself.
There is a new facebook game called The-Conflict. Let people choose peace or war between Palestinian and Israelis . So…choose your side.
apps.facebook.com/the-conflict
RE: “Caspit is so damn, well you heard the man, boorish.” – R.S.
MY COMMENT: Dare I say Caspit sounds like a real dum-dum?
RE: “his Venetian-style villa on Mt. Gerizim”
MY COMMENT: It is certainly “Italianate”, but I do not necessarily see so much of a Venetian influence. Not that I would necessarily recognize a “Venetian influence” absent an actual ‘Bridge of Sighs’, mind you. In any case, the dome does remind me a bit of the Duomo in Florence. – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Maria_del_Fiore
Brunelleschi’s Dome, How A Renaissance Genius Reinvented Architecture – http://www.amazon.com/Brunelleschis-Renaissance-Genius-Reinvented-Architecture/dp/B000CLQK4W
LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I am in no way an ‘art historian’, although I confess to occasionally playing one on the internet. Why not? I suppose it’s a bit like claiming Facebook photos are fabricated.
ASSOCIATED PRESS: Nov 26, 2008 … A Palestinian tycoon has created a tranquil paradise on a Holy Land mountaintop, with a replica of a famous Renaissance villa, sculpted gardens and a wrought-iron pavilion that once belonged to a nephew of Napoleon Bonaparte… – http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-11-26-2550568042_x.htm
That building is…the home of the wealthiest man in Palestine! Looks like a Roman Villa… – http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oHtHHFMb8J4/Tb2WN0RDj5I/AAAAAAAABvY/V68VXJ6j1wo/s1600/100_0962.JPG
Johnston-Felton-Hay House – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston-Felton-Hay_House
Since I’m not given an opportunity to reply directly to Duck’s posts, I’ll do it here. I guess I fall into the category of “rabid anti-zionist” and I don’t see what’s wrong with that. It doesn’t make me anti-semitic (which I’m not) or anti-Israel (which I’m not) but just affirms my belief that if there had never been zionism there would likely be peace in Palestine/Israel today.
As for Dorothy, I know her well, and I know how increasingly disillusioned and distressed she has grown over many years with what Israel has become. She and her husband moved to Israel to help make the desert bloom, and they didn’t expect to find their dreams were based on a fantasy. Dorothy works tirelessly to educate Israeli Jews about the suffering that Israel’s existence has caused the Palestinians. She is loved by many people in the West Bank, and welcomed as family when she takes friends to visit them. I have been fortunate to visit several of her friends with her, and she is a delight and a wonder to watch as she is greeted with hugs and smiles and kisses from every member of a family she visits. Once we went for tea in a Palestinian village and as we crossed a field an Israeli jeep stopped on the road. Three or four soldiers got out and started to follow us. As we reached the village we could see Dorothy’s friends standing outside their modest house as they waited to greet us. The soldiers threatened to arrest us, but Dorothy lectured them very strongly in Hebrew (I suspect she was asking them what their mothers and grandmothers thought about what they were doing in Palestine) after which they were clearly glad to get away from us. There is no woman in Israel I admire more than Dorothy, and I believe she means what she says about giving up her home.
In another incident, Dorothy personally raised thousands of dollars to help pay for a kidney transplant for a Palestinian toddler. She even found a donor (a young ISM volunteer) and the surgery was performed successfully.
“if there had never been zionism there would likely be peace in Palestine/Israel today. ”
If there had never been zionism there would be no israel, and no israeli-arab conflict.
In what way is this less offensive than saying that there would be no occupation (and no nakba) if there were no palestinians?
I’m sorry, Duck, but the Palestinians were native to the land, Zionism was not. It was a national movement among East-European and Ashkenaze Jews, and not among Mizrahi Jews in the Old Yishuv, at least not until they were more or less forcibly rallied to Zionism.
Irrelevant. Denouncing one side’s national aspirations is no more key to peace than denouncing the other side’s.
Even if one side exercised their rights in a most racist and violent fashion, and even if it had to repatriate itself in it’s land. I can’t understand how rational liberal people can condemn a nation to exile and diaspora.