11 thoughts on “Josh Block ‘Discovers’ Iranian Democracy – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. “If Israeli democracy is to develop, we cannot be seen to be meddling internally or even lobbying aggressively outside Israel for to become what we want it to become. That’s poison for the reformers that we support”

    Uh…

    1. Israel is supposedly a democracy. Iran is a closed authoritarian system. Now if you wish to argue that Israel has the same authoritarian system as Iran and that’s why we mustn’t meddle in Israel’s internal politics, that would be an interesting argument. Is that one you wish to make?

      1. It was just a hypothetical question really. But, again hypothetically, if Israel were to become as authoritarian as Iran, your sentence implies that the best thing to do would be for foreign elements to leave it be. But don’t get me wrong, I think the two situations are or would be dramatically different. Certainly Jews living outside of Israel could validly be critical of Israel were it to slide into fascism or whatever. I guess the more germane question is, what are relevant differences between Iran and Israel that would necessitate different approaches to humanitarian issues in both countries?

        1. No it doesn’t imply that. I don’t feel the same about Iranians engaging in the struggle for Iran’s future as I do Josh Block or Freedom House or PPI. They are unwanted interlopers. Iranians have a legitimate stake in the future of their country–that includes Iranians in the Diaspora. The same with Jews in the Diaspora regarding Israel.

          Second, Israel is a democracy at least nominally. Iran has never been a true democracy (except briefly in the early 1950s). I think you treat a country which has never had democracy more carefully than one that has. If Israel becomes as bad as Iran then at least you can say that it has retreated from being a democracy & aggressive efforts must be made to bring it back into alignment with democratic values. Iran has few such values (though it does have elections & a parliament that are nominally democratic). Therefore, I think it’s up to the Iranians themselves to work this out. Outside interference won’t help. Not at this point. If there was an uprising like the one in Libya now & there was civil discord & generals & political leaders defecting to the opposition, then I might feel differently. But unfortunately the regime is in control and rebellion has progressed far enough.

          1. Sigh.

            Not at this point. If there was an uprising like the one in Libya now & there was civil discord & generals & political leaders defecting to the opposition, then I might feel differently. But unfortunately the regime is in control and rebellion has progressed far enough

            So just because the protestors in Iran didnt have enough military power they dont deserve the wests help?
            Does this even make sense to you?
            Doesnt it just shows to you the government in Iran is just stronger than the one in Egypt or Libya, and therefore is harder to overthrow? If u assume everybody eventually want democracy (and u do, because me saying its not so is one of the reasons im currently moderated and was called a racist so many times) then whats the difference? Why not to help the weakest ones, who obviously cant help themselves?

            Somehow i think if Iran wasnt Israels enemy #1 currently, you’d say somethnig very different.
            Not that ur not self convinced its not because of that, though.

          2. So just because the protestors in Iran didnt have enough military power they dont deserve the wests help?

            It’s not what they deserve. Of course they deserve their freedom. But they have to win it themselves, at least initially. No country “deserves” a revolution bought & paid for by western military might. What sort of revolution is that anyway? That’s imperialism or colonialism, not revolution. The Iranian opposition doesn’t need military power. It needs to overwhelming support of the people, which it doesn’t yet have.

            Why not to help the weakest ones, who obviously cant help themselves?

            I don’t think it’s the role of outsiders to be sisters of mercy & help the weakest ones. The Egyptians won their revolution not because the opposition was “the weakest one” but because its ideas were more powerful, popular & vibrant than the tyrant’s. That hasn’t happened yet in Iran. I hope it will. But it hasn’t, yet.

            if Iran wasnt Israels enemy #1 currently

            Iran isn’t Israel’s number 1 enemy. Israel & its leaders are Israel’s number 1 enemy.

  2. It is about time to stop smearing Israel on all that some individual American is doing. Israel is quite good at it without thier help.
    The worst thing American can do is bomb Iran. The mess they have done in Iraq will take decades to clean up already.
    Had Bush no destroyed Iraq, true forces would have risen today there to remove the rules. Now we have a torn country that is not able to pick itself up.
    Stop thinking you know what is best for the ME. If a country asks for your help, help it (if it does not harm American interest), but don’t use force on them.

  3. You know, i agree with you for a change that most of the people who yell about democracy in Iran dont really care who will rule there – as long as he/she will be west oriented / wont make monthyl speeches aganist israel.
    However i cant understand ur positiong regarding when the west should interfere and when not. Ive asked in the past and didnt get a clear answer: whats the difference between Iran, Libya and Syria for you? We saw thousands of people demonstrating in Iran just as we saw in Egypt, Libya and Syria. The main difference between the protests in all those countries is how much the protestors were able to do to overthrow their rulers. In egypt theyve managed to overthrow mubarak, in Libya they managed to start a civil war, and probably will win it with the help of NATO and in Syria we’ve yet to see.
    What do u base ur opionion on when u call for intervention and libya and condenm this concept so strongly with iran/?

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