Iranian General Murdered in Israel’s Ayalon Prison?
Hold on to your hats because this post is going to be a wild ride. New and astonishing developments in the case of Prisoner X, known to a source within Ehud Barak’s inner circle as Ali Reza Asgari, retired Iran Revolutionary Guard general and former deputy defense minister.
I exposed the name of Prisoner X here a few weeks ago. Today, brings news from Israel that Asgari is dead in his cell. According to the standard version, he committed suicide in his cell within the past week or so. Ynet reported the suicide story and noted that it was under gag order. Of course, this story was erased from the internet, but I’m posting a copy of the article which was taken down from the Ynet site.
What is so interesting about this story is that you have to combine two different articles (the second from Haaretz) to gain more insight into what really happened here. The Haaretz article, which was not removed under gag order because it was written in a sufficiently vague form that it could slip under the gag order, noted that there are investigations of those who die while in secret detention (the case with Asgari). One of the considerations in such an inquiry is whether a “government agency” may have caused the death:
Did such an agency have an interest in silencing the detainee? And if so, was a death declared a “suicide,” really murder? In the case of the death of a prisoner under special treatment [held by the security services], why it was not within the power of the Prison Service to prevent the suicide or some other form of violent death.
I should also confirm at this point that my original source for this story reaffirms specifically that it is Asgari, and not some other secret security prisoner who died. My source, I should add, only confirms the “official” government version that he committed suicide and not that he was murdered.
This raises the question: why was Asgari considered so hot a figure that someone in the security services may’ve wanted him dead? It should be noted that it would’ve have been relatively easy for someone to kill Asgari. An earlier Ynet article, also gagged, noted that he was held incommunicado and had no contact whatsoever with the prison guards or other authorities. Any prisoner held under such extreme conditions of isolation could be killed at will.
It gives me very little pride as a blogger/journalist to say that the news of his incarceration exposed here may’ve made him a marked man. No one wishes to be in the most remote way the cause of another’s death. But the reasons I wrote what I did were honorable and intended to break the stranglehold and impunity of the Israeli security apparatus. If I am right I regret to say that Ali Reza Asgari has been sacrificed on this altar. He is a victim of the Israeli secret police and I only hope his death will not have been in vain. It is they, and no one else including me, who is responsible for his death.
Why kill him? It would be incredibly difficult to explain to the world how and why Israel held a senior Iranian official in one of its prisons when it was telling the world he was enjoying his new life as a defector in Virginia. It would enormously complicate relations with Turkey (on whose soil he was abducted) and Iran (with whom Israel is almost in a state of war). It also seems likely that the security services, as I guessed in my earlier post, must’ve exhausted the useful information they could get from him. And so in yet another sense he was expendable.
But expendable for whom? It would appear that the Mossad, which originally kidnapped him would be the main culprit. If he was murdered, the authors of this crime must’ve figured that it would be that much more difficult for anyone to pursue his trail if they murdered him than if he remained alive. The question now becomes what they’ve done with his body. Will they make it too disappear as they did Asgari himself when they kidnapped him in Istanbul in 2007? This would be the ultimate insult and would render his killers virtual impunity for the crime. His family, which protested in Teheran last month on the anniversary of his fourth year in captivity, will have no body to mourn, no one to bury. One wonders whether, as in China, at some unspecified future date, Israel will offer the family what’s left of him plus a bill for his execution. I apologize for the darkness of this comment, but how else is one supposed to react to this abomination?
A word about the official version of suicide: originally the Mossad put out the story that Asgari hadn’t been kidnapped and wasn’t in Israel. Both of these stories appear to have been false. The suicide story appears equally self-serving. Remember too that the Mossad’s method of killing Mahmoud al-Mabouh in Dubai allowed the world to believe he has died of a heart attack. Only a far more sophisticated toxic screen determined that he’d been drugged as part of a murder. So the Mossad is very good at these smokescreens when it wants to cover the tracks of its murders. And further, Amir Oren is implicitly telling his readers, under the strictures of the gag which demand Kabuki-like forms of communication, that our prisoner was murdered and didn’t commit suicide.
What is especially stupid about this murder is that it virtually destroys the a ability of any western intelligence agency to encourage any Iranian to defect. Can you imagine an interchange between a prospective defector and his handler? Look what you did to Asgari. You expect me to expose myself to the possibility of such a fate?
And what will this do to future cooperation among intelligence agencies who may be running Iranian spies and potential defectors? If rumors are correct and Asgari was lured to Istanbul by a German BND-run false flag operation, and then rendered to the Mossad after capture, why would any such agency willingly cooperate with Israel in future, unless the goal is to glean as much information as possible from such a figure and then kill him when he becomes inconvenient.
This story cries out for further exposure on the part of the western and Israeli media. Frankly, so far I have found it impossible to place this story in a more MSM publication. Two Israeli journalists discovered that they couldn’t get permission to interview me about the story. And other western media have not been willing to publish my research. Let’s hope with this alarming news that will change.
Otherwise, Asgari will be yet another almost anonymous statistic in the rapidly heating Cold War between Israel and Iran.
Writing in 972 Magazine, Dimi Reider has captured the implicit meaning of Amir Oren’s Haaretz report as well (that the Ayalon prisoner was murdered, rather than committed suicide). He did so independent of any conversation with me. To be fair, Dimi doesn’t agree with my identification of the prisoner with Ali Reza Asgari.
There is one notable caveat:the Israeli NGO, Zaka, which reports all unnatural deaths in the country, says on its website that the Ayalon prisoner was age 32 and died on December 15th. Asgari is in his 50s. So either Zaka reported incorrect information or the man who died is not him. But even if it is not, the likelihood remains that this prisoner was murdered while in detention, a grave crime.
164 thoughts on “Iranian General Murdered in Israel’s Ayalon Prison? – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم”
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You absolutely, positively cannot let this story die This story must go viral.
“It gives me very little pride as a blogger/journalist to say that the news of his incarceration exposed here may’ve made him a marked man. No one wishes to be in the most remote way the cause of another’s death. But the reasons I wrote what I did were honorable and intended to break the stranglehold and impunity of the Israeli security apparatus. If I am right I regret to say that Ali Reza Asgari has been sacrificed on this altar. He is a victim of the Israeli secret police and I only hope his death will not have been in vain. It is they, and no one else including me, who’s responsible for his death.”
This is mind-blowing. This story may have unprecedented ramifications, and not only the ones you mentioned above, but also for other journalists who may fear exposing a crime in future because it may represent a death sentence for some other victim or detainee. I am aghast at what Israel is doing. Do not let this go. If the fact that you discovered this man was being held under these conditions and no doubt tortured for information; and then murdered because the lies and this crime were discovered, then for this reason you cannot let this story die and not reach the mainstream media. Use every connection you have. This is a hot story, and I suggest you run with it, not just because it may be a milestone story for you but because by some strange twist you seem to have been charged by the universe with the responsibility of ensuring justice for this man and his family. At least this is how it appears to me. You achieved a breakthrough with the Kamm/Blau story, but this represents an even bigger breakthrough on different levels.
I’m appalled by the inhumanity and horror of what happened with this man. I’ll bet there’s a whole lot more to this story that you don’t know. It smells really bad. Regrettably, you may never discover why this was done to Asgari, but at least get it out there to begin with and let the clamor for accountability begin!
Israel is trying too hard to provoke Iran. They won’t get a North Korean response, and now they may have blood on their hands.
And the tit for tat begins…
(sorry hebrew only for now)
Iranian executed for “spying” for Israel (sorry, that should read “for the zionist entity”)
Oh puhleeez, already! This is much more than tit for tat!
I doubt the Iranians got word already that the General was murdered. Gimme a break!
Besides, Mossad has been killing off scientists, and working with terrorists who recently killed scores of Iranians, even recently encouraging the U.S. to take these groups off their terrorist list, and Iran has yet to vindicate Israel’s hand in all these criminal acts.
Israel is pushing and provoking Iran to war, this is what we are witnessing here…a provocative move, a horrific act and execution, or assasination which in other cases in the past has led to war.
Israel is playing a very dangerous game and this is much more than tit…for…tat.
Assumptions, assumptions and slander without a shred of proof.
Kalea, you’ve built theories and accusations based on a POSSIBLE scenerio, but when there is an ACTUAL fact, the execution by Iran of an alleged spy for Israel, which was reported by the Iranians themselves, the best you can come up with is “Oh puhleeez, already”
Double standards, but somehow I’m not surprised
Israel, and not Iran, is “The-Only-Democracy-In-The-Middle-East” aka “The Villa-In-The-Jungle” aka “The-Light-Upon-Nations”. Well, it’s time to change the bulb !
Stay on topic.
how one should treat such a post ?
you provide absolutely no supporting evidence, you bare no responsibility, and the supporting document you bring from Zaka suggest that this is not the man you are looking for.
of course one can say that zaka is may be used in this case by the mossad, but i doubt that they will participate in such a shame.
i think you are wrong, i doubt that anyone from Barak’s inner circle will provide you with any information (unless it is being done deliberately, as part of psyops campaign)
personally, i think you are wrong in your assertion.
i think that if the mossad wanted him dead they would have done so on a foreign soil, i think they would have held him to begin with on a foreign place (which israel just like the us has the ability to do) and this all thing makes no sense what so ever.
Do you think a report fr. Zaka trumps both Amir Oren’s report in Haaretz that the prisoner was murdered AND a confidant of Ehud Barak? I could care less whether you think someone from his inner circle would offer information to me. In fact, the fact that you disbelieve this only gives me pleasure because I know that you will be proven wrong.
You of course neglect to acknowledge that I myself have noted the discrepancy bet. Zaka’s rpt of the victim’s age & the age of Asgari. But if you believe that the authorities who provided the info to Zaka couldn’t or wouldn’t have lied to the NGO you’re incredibly naive.
Now if only you could write proper English to begin with maybe we could all take YOU seriously.
Are you writing from a West Bank settlement or some desk job at IDF headquarters?
Okay, then who do you think PRISONER X was? After all, we know of only one very important intelligence asset who logically warrants this defensive high-level secrecy and media blackout.
You guys have completely lost it. Your only refutation of Ilan’s logic is “then who do you think PRISONER X was?”
This guy could be practically anyone,including a lot of people neither of us has ever heard of. The “Zaka” report makes it seem likely that Richard is being led by the nose by a very sophisticated red herring, perhaps one designed to get him off this case.
Bullshit! (‘Scuse my French)
Care to explain yourself logically?
“Logically?” I didn’t know that was what you called your own “method.”
The Zaka “report” is nothing of the kind. It is a bland statement of the face that an unidentified prisoner in isolation in Ayalon Prison committed suicide. The only contradiction w. my own information is a fact I’ve already acknowledged. When you can get a Zaka official to actually make a statement about this incident that really fully contradicts me, pls let me know.
The only red herring here, & not a very sophisticated one, is YOU.
Nathaniel, you just presented a red herring yourself. I don’t think Richard is being led anywhere but to the conclusions he made using reasonable evidence, and a preponderance thereof. Think about what you just wrote for two seconds and then ponder this logic: why would Richard be presented with your proposed red herring to be led astray if he wasn’t on to something in the first place?
Touche, Monsieur Pussy Cat! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KazkRxmU8hE
Good tactic, Kalea, if you can’t beat the argument, then attack the commentator for his syntax or his not 100% English. I understood every word he said and what he meant to say. So did you.
Have you ever been wrong and admitted it?
I have this thing about proper spelling & syntax. It makes the language easier to understand. And I don’t relish trying to decipher the meaning of people who make a mess of the language. I try not to make fun of people’s bad English since I’ve tried to speak a number of languages in my time & prob. could be laughed at my native speakers. But there’s nothing wrong will pointing out errors to people. Otherwise, how will they learn?
Telling someone he can’t be taken seriously because of his bad English, and snarkingly (is that a real word?) suggesting he’s writing from a settlement or an IDF desk job is very different from pointing out the errors. In fact there wasn’t a single error mentioned. AND after all that snark you can see that Kalea, despite saying he can’t take ilanp seriously, did provide a counter argument.
I think the comment was pretty rude, too. IlanP’s English is better than mine, and I guess it was more his opinions that Kalea didn’t like.
Insinuating that IlanP is writing from a settlement shows, on the contrary, that Kalea is not really aware of the sociological profile of the settler population. Tons of them moved from Brooklyn and Orange County directly into the OT 🙁
Your English is fine, and honestly, as long commentators get their point across, it’s fine by me. May I ask your nationality? I think your origins are in Palestine?
I think when people constantly pick superficial holes in ones argument the playbook becomes profoundly predictable and boring. I, too, get angered sometimes and this is caused specifically moreso by the fact that there are paid hasbarists.
Here, you forget that Kalea accused Richard of lying about his sources, which goes beyond mere opinion about the subject. If he chooses to impeach the author, the door’s open to attacks on his credibility as well.
Elsewhere in this same thread, Ilan accuses me of being a paid propagandist and pretends like he is the victim of the same. Shmuel, his defender, joins in.
Everyone’s points will, of course, come across better if more care is taken as to what they write. As for me, I spell things incorrectly or hit submit too soon. It detracts from my posts and message as well. Richard has a point.
Perfect example above where I named Kalea as the accuser by accident when Ilan was the culprit. 😉 I like to lead by eksampol…
Well, what do you mean by “nationality”, the Israeli sens or the ‘normal’ sens ? 😉 Do you mean citizenship (ezrahut) or ‘nationality’ as “le’um” ??
Mahmoud Darwish starts out his most famous poem by:
‘Uktub anâ ‘arabî ! (Write, I’m an Arab !)
That goes for me too, though I’ve had various different passports or nationalities.
Darwish says in another famous poem “Jawâz as-sâfar” (Passport):
“All the hearts of the people are my identity”
“So take away my passport !”
Or a little bit from Khalîl Gibrân:
“al-‘ard watanî wa al-‘insâniyya ‘usratî”
(The entire earth is my homeland and humanity my family)
I guess I meant both. I was born in Israel and so were my parents. Their parents (all 4) were born in Poland. My family was extremely lucky & most managed to leave Europe before things got real bad. Of course not all of them were so lucky…
For the record, Shai and Deïr Yassin write English very well for non-native speakers. I enjoy both of your commentaries.
@Shai – despite that broken road, we are all lucky to have you here – and, I mean it sincerely. Your lost family members would be proud of you.
@Deïr – The future is endless for you when you join the global citizenry and transcend mere nationalism, religious doctrine, and recognize our human commonalities. Glad you are here, too.
@me – shut up.
Your grandparents came to Palestine . . .
“One man’s loss is another man’s gain”.
1. No i’m neither a settler or an active member of the IDF.
2. I believe that the Israel has more then one way to penetrate other neighboring states, if Israel was to hold this Iranian guy, the easiest thing to do would be to kill him and dump him few hundred miles north of the Israeli shore, in Syira / Turkey or any other place that Israel would like. make it appear as if someone else did it (Syria / Turkey / Hezbollah / Kurds / Jon-d-Allah) and use that to set a barrier between that place an the Iranians.
3. few things makes no sense:
A. That Someone from Barak Inner circle would provide Richard with information, this is pure psyops either directed by Richard or initiated by Richard. my own guess RIchard is trying to cover his Media related asset. I also think that due to the opinions expressed in this blog, Richards communications is monitored by US legal agencies (and others) and sooner or later this “source” will be washed out.
B. That the mossad will hold such a guy on Israel soil, Israel is a small place, bigger chances such a guy would be held in Virginia than in ayalon prison. specially if he was captured as suggested by the Germans.
C. That such a killing would be preformed inside Ayalon prison, better places for such an activity – see above.
i do hope i was able to upgrade my writing skills a bit, so maybe now you will not have to resort to ad-hominem, and would actually be able to deal with substance for a change.
Your context is way off, Ilan. They didn’t simply want to murder Prisoner X. They captured him for intel. When he had nothing more to give and people were catching on, they executed him without a trial, without an attorney, nothing. In Islam, you are forbidden to commit suicide. This guy was ultra religious and there is no way he would done that. No twisting of the canon would justify it. If this is a red herring, it’s okay because Richard caveated it above several ways. He loses no integrity or credibility. But some of the posters here are clearly government paid Hasbarists. How do I know? Only low IQs work for government.
1. I do hope that the site moderator will show no bias and will demand you to apologize for your nasty comments.
2. You miss the point, lets assume the mossad did kidnap him extracted all intel and wanted him dead. why not make it appear as if he was killed in turkey and have Turkey explain to the Iranian’s why was he abducted from Turkey in the first place, and how come he was found dead on Turkish soil. he will be as dead you know.
killing someone like him in prison, is choosing the dumbest option. if the post about mossad achievements in delaying nuclear ability from Iran – which Richard posted here few days ago -is true (as RIchard thinks) the last thing you can say about Mossad is that it has no vision and can’t carry out very complex operations.
I don’t apologize for being truthful about government spokesman. Anyone with brains is swept into the private sector or knows governments are typically up to no good. The comment wasn’t directed at you if you read carefully, unless you feel that it was and for a misunderstanding caused by ambiguity, I will gladly apologize. Hasbara is not a bad word but a factual label admitted by the Israeli government – I defer you to Wikipedia or google.
As for number two, you are ignoring Mossad’s clear history of failing to assassinate or do much on foreign soil. Why risk getting caught when the victim is already in your hands?
Your argument is like assuming Mossad has superpowers. You believe the foolishness of the Egyptian parliament rep that said Mossad controls sharks? It’s like blaming Iran for the Carmel Fire — a conspiracy theory at best.
There is an old saying “You can fool one person all the time, you can fool some of the people part of the time, but you can’t fool everyone all the time”
You fooled me, you fooled also Gene Schulman who states “PA’s remarks are no stronger. His defense of Richard is merely lawyer jargon. And his remark about low I.Q. is ad hominem to the maximum.”
you have a way with words, very talented but it doesn’t make you less liable.
You are funny, on this blog it’s been claimed that Mossad assassin few Iranian scientist in the heart of Tehran in broad daylight. What about the Hezbollah main guy that was killed in Damascus ? you can’t hold the stick on both end you know.
furthermore in the video Richard provided on this blog it was noted that Mossad was able to provide Iran with malfunction equipment that caused huge delays with centrifuge operation.
all things listed are way more complicated that killing the man in prison loading him into and IAF CH-53 flying into Baal-Beq, Ankara and dropping him there.
I agree Mossad doesn’t train sharks, but seems to me you are underestimating their abilities a bit too much. you don’t know about Mossad success all you know off is about Mossad failure.
The problem is that the very actions which you & other Israelis view as Mossad successes the rest of the world views as disastrous failures.
I’ll allow Richard to clarify his own blog entry. The assassination occurred at night and no one said Mossad did it directly — everyone agrees Mossad has NO reach inside Iran. Instead, theyve teamed up with a recognized foreign terrorist organization, the Mujahedin-e Khalq, aka the NCRI, MEK, MKO or whatever else is convenient to hide a troublesome history. These are Islamo Marxist crazies that make any actual “Amalek” look like Kermit the Frog. I defer to Wikileaks on Hariri’s assassination.
Nice quote by PT Barnum, circus ringmaster. Doesn’t make you any less “liable”.
” In Islam, you are forbidden to commit suicide. This guy was ultra religious and there is no way he would done that”
Persianadvocate – you can’t really believe that statement. I can’t remember any case of a suicide bomber who didn’t profess to be doing it for Islamic religious motivation. Becoming a “shahid” by suicide seems to be an ultra-religious act in Islam.
Sorry, suicide can’y be ruled out.
Sorry to the suicide bombers, but that certainly isn’t Islam or what it stands for. Please get better from your blatant Islamophobia soon 😉 I don’t profess that Israel’s policies are Judaic, because they certainly aren’t. Hashem answers with fire, Shmuell. Israel’s entire foreign policy of belligerent war threats and pretending Turkey and the world were out to get it went to sh*t when Israel had 200+ nukes but no firehoses.
I am in no way Islamaphobic, as you are not anti-semitic.
You cannot dismiss as “not what Islam stands for” that which is virtually mainstream Islamic practice, at least in Palestine and Lebanon, where idealising the “shahid” who suicide bombs crowded places is common place.
I think your form of Islam is “wishful thinking” like my Judaism which would like the racist rabbis also to desist from speaking for mainstream Judaism.
First, suicide martyrdom is not mainstream Islamic practice, not even in Palestine or Lebanon. If it were there would be suicide bombings in these places virtually every day or at least week. There hasn’t been a suicide bombing inside Israel in at least 2-3 yrs nor one that has caused great damage in far longer than that. Is there a small minority of Muslims who attempt to turn this practice into a more mainstream, acceptable one? Yes. Are they succeeding? Not in Palestine or Lebanon.
Who said I am Muslim? Who said I am not? My beliefs are not at issue. But you keep labeling me. First of all, there are 1.6+ billion Muslims in the world. You are whitewashing. When I say I’m the opposite of anti-Semitic, it’s true in action. When you say you’re not Islamophobic you exhibit your ignorance in the same Paragraph. Are all Christians polygamists like some Mormons in Utah? Are all Jews Kahanists? Think before you write…
You just called me a liar & earned yrself moderation. The next time you violate comment rules you will lose all yr privileges here. Read the comment rules before you comment here again to avoid such problems in future.
Now that’s funny. You think the NSA is spying on me and ignore the fact that it would be far more likely that the Mossad would be doing so or trying to do so. And if they think they’ll discover the real identity of my source it won’t be from me since I’ve worked out an arrangement whereby even I don’t know this specific information. I do this in order to protect myself, but especially my sources.
It’s very simple, if Mossad so much as touches a port on Richard’s electronics, sends or receives a byte or packet, or otherwise, the local, state, regional, national and international authorities will be alerted and entrap Mossad once and for all. There is no need to start even skepticizing on such a moronic action. It would implicate Mossad immediately.
That may be overstating things. I operate as if Israeli intelligence knows just about everything I know. I hope that’s not the case, but in this day & age how can you act otherwise? As for punishing violations of U.S. law committed by Israel on our soil, I wish it happened but rarely does.
Mr. PA & Richard
the NSA monitors all the internet traffic in and out of the US.
i’m sure i will not be braking any news to you both, if i would tell you that they use keywords in doing so, for instance the words, Hamas, Suicide Bombers and others repeatedly mention on this Blog in both posts and comments are parts of the words the NSA monitor’s. if the words are repeating themselves too many times the information is being forwarded to human interpretation.
so i believe this site and others like it are closely monitor, i believe that all of Richards communication (email, mail, phone, cell and others) is monitored as well as a result.
does the NSA share such info with the Israeli Authorities ? probably so. Do the Israeli Authorities run their own similar operation? absolutely.
The NSA needs a FISA warrant to monitor specific individuals & does not generally monitor traffic from the U.S. to Israel or within the U.S. So I’d be shocked if I were a subject of monitoring or wiretap or surveillance by the U.S. gov’t. But I’d love to know about it if it were true. And I’d be happy to sue the gov’t for doing so
ONce again, you’ve repeated yrself & the first time you said this it bored me to tears. You can imagine how it makes me feel now. I know you expected it to get a rise out of me as typical hasbarist psychological manipulation which others like you have tried. But it won’t work.
Repeat yrself again in similar vein & you’ll be moderated.
The NSA? Fine. But as an American citizen with friends in DHS, the FBI, and pretty much the top of the DOJ hierarchy, Mossad should ask if they want to create another Jonathon Pollard. Not to mention waste resources and reputational capital finding out nothing worthy or lionizing harmless individuals who are objective commentators with no political reckonings. I live in the US and advance US interests, which include sidelining dangerous liabilities to our way of life. I will let my friends know of your concern. I wouldn’t want them finding out about the love letters I send my ladies when I’m not commenting on politics for fun lol
Firstly, saying, “proper english” is a very poor use of english.
Secondly, speak for yourself and not others (‘maybe we could all take YOU seriously’)
Now to the point…What makes you so damn positive that Ali Reza is dead?
After all you ARE claiming he was murdered by Mossad, therefore you should know that if they have the power to kill him in his prison cell in one of the more highly rated secured prisons in the Zionist State of Israel, then surely they have the power to disguise his death, find out info about his fellow countrymen, give him a new identity in return, why do they need to kill him and loose from it rather than let the human being live and gain from it?
Think before you speak.
Say what? Who taught you English? It’s fine.
You’re late to the party here. We’ve been discussing this for wks & you missed everything. Mossad did try to disguise his death. Zaka released an announcement that an anonymous security detainee committed suicide at Ayalon. My highly placed source & other sleuthing led me to believe he’d been murdered. And pls. read the posts I’ve written about this subject before asking such questions in future. It would save all of us a lot of time.
Strange that the first leak on both stories concerning “Mr. X” came from ynet, only to be censored immediately. Seems that someone on ynet very much wants to leak, probably knowing that it will be censored quickly, but also that it will be picked up even more quickly by un-censorable blogs.
Do you know, Richard, this “leaker”?
No, I don’t. Never had any contact w. the reporter. But I should try to contact him. The stories were reported to me by other Israelis.
Kudos for connecting the dots; this is a good journalistic catch Richard.
However, there are several problems with your argument here:
“Any prisoner held under such extreme conditions of isolation could be killed at will.”
But wouldn’t these very conditions also make killing him of very little value?
“It would be incredibly difficult to explain to the world how and why Israel held a senior Iranian official…”
But why would anyone need to explain these things? If this man was\is indeed held incommunicado, one would have to physically break into Ayalon prison to prove that he’s in Israel.
“But expendable for whom? It would appear that the Mossad, which originally kidnapped him…”
Even assuming that this is true, have you ever heard of Mossad operations taking place inside Israel? Mossad may be the most glamorous of Israeli itelligence organizations, but it is by no means the only one…
“What is especially stupid about this murder is that it virtually destroys the a ability of any western intelligence agency to encourage any Iranian to defect. ”
You assume that he was murdered, then marvel at the stupidity-indeed pointlessness-of murdering him. Sort of begging the question, no?
They had him for four years and people were catching on to the lies. He had no additional information to give them. If this is true, Israel has committed yet another crime against humanity.
Valid pts. all. But I think there was a gathering storm of criticism & inquiry about this case w. the family’s protest at the Turkish embassy last month, my reports going back to last yr. & this week & general percolation of the story into media consciousness. Other reporters were starting to dig into this story w. my encouragement. It’s also possible that the murder wasn’t specifically planned, but that it happened in the course of argument, interrogation, etc.
Perhaps you would know more about this…but I’ve asked Israelis I know if a prisoner kidnapped by Mossad was brought to Israel and then imprisoned as a secret security prisoner, who would be responsible for him? Esp. since the Prison Service clearly wasn’t. I’m presuming Mossad would still have control of him. But perhaps it would be Shabak or Aman. I don’t know & am open to hearing other thoughts.
Not sure what you meant by “begging the question.”
“Valid pts. all. But I think there was a gathering storm of criticism & inquiry about this case…”
I didn’t sense such a storm…in the absence of any hard evidence linking this man’s disappearance with Israeli intelligence, you’d have little more than another seemingly outlandish accusation leveled at “The Zionist Entity” by the Iranian regime. That these accusations arrive daily and are frequently used to suppress internal dissent does not help lend them credence.
“It’s also possible that the murder wasn’t specifically planned, but that it happened in the course of argument, interrogation, etc.”
Possible-yes, I suppose. But at some point one has to apply Occam’s Razor, because this sort of speculation yields much more heat than it does light.
“Perhaps you would know more about this…but I’ve asked Israelis I know if a prisoner kidnapped by Mossad was brought to Israel and then imprisoned as a secret security prisoner, who would be responsible for him?”
Information regarding the respective jurisdictions of Israeli intelligence organizations does not belong in an open forum.
The information totally belongs in a public forum. After all, society at large has every right to know who does what in it name. Especially when the things an agency like Mossad does are clearly illegal, not to mention disgusting. Since Israeli intelligence services function much like the mafia does, we are within our right – as civilized humans everywhere – give them the respect due mafiosi. And we all like to know which hit cell did the kidnapping, which carried out the execution and which did the clean-up.
Oh, please. This sort of thing is openly discussed in the Israeli media, Rotter, etc. Either you’re a current or former intelligence officer or you’re a Pollyanna in the Age of Wikileaks. And thanks for nothing.
“Oh, please. This sort of thing is openly discussed in the Israeli media, Rotter, etc.”
Rotter is a site that panders to semi-literate yeshiva students… people like that can talk all they like, because they have nothing to say.
“Either you’re a current or former intelligence officer or you’re a Pollyanna in the Age of Wikileaks.”
The Age of Wikileaks? You think you’ll find what you’re looking for in the sort of dime-a-dozen diplomatic cables Wikileaks obtained?
THere’s a lot wrong with Rotter, no doubt. But it’s wildly popular & often breaks important stories well before the MSM inside Israel. It broke this story for example though it only reported the initial suicide based on the Zaka rpt. Like any source, you have to be very careful what you credit. But to discredit it completely is a mistake.
Wikileaks has had some amazing material including stuff related to Israel. I guess you’re not reading this blog reguarly. I’ve posted about 5-6 Wikileaks cables that are pretty eye-opening. But I guess you know everything & don’t need sources like Wikileaks.
I see the debate has moved on to other threads. Will reply there when my schedule clears up. But first, in the interest of tying up loose ends:
“THere’s a lot wrong with Rotter, no doubt. But…”
Perhaps my perspective is somewhat skewed, because I don’t rely on Rotter for news…I judge these sort of sites by the level of debate. And in that respect Rotter is quite simply abysmal.
“Wikileaks has had some amazing material including stuff related to Israel…”
I don’t think it has, but again this may be an issue of differing perspectives. I’ve followed the releases quite closely, mainly by making a point of reading the Guardian’s coverage of the leaks in its entirety. So far, I remain underwhelmed.
If you only read the Guardian’s coverage of the leaks you’re getting only a partial picture. You must read either this blog or it in combination with Haaretz, as the Guardian often doesn’t report on cables concerning Israel. In fact, I’m going to write about an eye opening cable today here. YOu may not find it covered by the Guardian.
The liability of letting Asgari go free and the attention created about him caused these murderers to execute a prisoner. Israel can still claim they don’t have a death penalty – that requires a full judicial process, and even in Iran you are given an automatic appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. This is shameful and the apologists here should appear at the Hague when the time c
“The liability of letting Asgari go free
and the attention created about him”
caused these murderers to execute a prisoner.
For pity’s sake, Persian Advocate, listen to yourself.
If the alleged murder of Ali Reza Asgari hasn’t appeared on the BBC radar by now then it’s more than likely to be a non-story. Richard, and your good self, are whistling in the wind while Iranian psychotics murder whom they will.
Keep up the good work,
Lmao @ BBC being the arbitrator of truth. The fact that they refuse proves the veracity of Richard’s argument.
The liability of letting Asgari go free and the attention created about him caused these murderers to execute a prisoner. Israel can still claim they don’t have a death penalty – that requires a full judicial process, and even in Iran you are given an automatic appeal all the way to the Supreme Court. This is shameful and the apologists here should appear at the Hague when the time comes to grandstand there and see what happens to them as well.
Good evening Persian Advocate _ and congratulations on your new job as Policeman, Prosecutor, Judge, Jury and Reporter all rolled into one.
And all that without a shred of evidence. Can I get a job there too, I’ve got a few defendants in mind?
As much as it pains me, I have to side with Shmuel here. There is a lot of vague supposition in Richard’s post. If there is no real evidence, what is the point of bringing up this story in the first place. Innuendo does not make a case for anything other than hot-dogging your own reputation.
PA’s remarks are no stronger. His defense of Richard is merely lawyer jargon. And his remark about low I.Q. is ad hominem to the maximum.
This is not to say that Richard and PA are not correct. But given that this stuff goes on all the time, both in Israel and the U.S., why is this case so important?
Because Israel claims that it does not kill its political prisoners. Here’s fact: Israel’s supreme court is the IDF’s rifle.
Israel doesn’t CLAIM not to kill political prisoners, it doesn’t kill them.
It does kill terrorists who have murdered and maimed, based on better evidence than that brought on this thread here.
Where has the Israeli Supreme Court given any permission to kill prisoners? Fact????
The only recorded case was that of the 300 bus terrorist attack where the murderer who was caught red-handed was killed by the shabak after his interrogation, and that was about 30 years ago. The supreme court refused to overturn the immunity from prosecution given by the President to the killers, and that was on legalistic grounds.
I am sure that if it transpires that some Israeli did indeed kill this prisoner, if it is who you say, then the perportrator will be tried in the Israeli courts for murder.
And, Persianadvocate, what possible motive could Israel have to start war with Iran? Do you really think any Israeli politician could possibly bear the consequenses of such a foolish act?
I’m sure that its motive is defensive at best, and calculated not to escalate to actual combat.
The Shabak & other security services routinely torture, maim & kill their prisoners. It may not kill that many outright, but it certainly has killed its fair share. Not to mention the suicides of such prisoners.
You poor deluded soul. Just because the Supreme Court has prohibited torture or targeted killings except in very limited circumstances you think that the IDF & security services obey these rulings? My good man, I’ve got a bridge to sell you along w. prime beachfront property in Florida.
You don’t even know yr own history. For shame! First, there were two suspects murdered by having their heads bashed in w. a rock. They weren’t even interrogated. A Shabak agent summarily executed them immediately after capture.
Who will force the Israeli system to investigate this killing & charge anyone with the crime? Who? You? The Supreme Court? Puh-leeze.
Some super assumptions here. 1- I have made it clear that Israel’s court system is a hazard to militaristic objectives and so the justice system is circumvented – kind of like international laws and the Hague; 2- I never said anything about Israel’s court rulings in the past; 3- you claim that the Israeli leadership consists of rational actors. History shows they are deluded. The last decade and beyond shows Israel will act dirty, use media to cover it up or spin it, and receive impunity by way of powerful lobbies. Cast Lead prosecution still hasn’t been had.
” Here’s fact: Israel’s supreme court is the IDF’s rifle.”
“- I never said anything about Israel’s court rulings in the past”
Persianadvocate: both the above statements were made by you – care to explain what you really mean to say?
Read the above. I explained and clarified fully what I meant. Israel’s court system and other arbitrators of justice are circumvented on the regular by the Israeli government.
This is why I have been silent on this. Richard could be right, and he could be wrong. There’s nothing I have seen which makes me lean toward either of these possibilities. All I can say is that the self-righteousness present in the article and the comments is just another form of hasbara.
Mainly I agree with Yotam, but I am able to find value in killing a prisoner whose conditions are unknown to anyone – keeping a person alive costs money. Why waste any on one who is practically invisible and can no longer contribute any intelligence?
Shai, you’re blending shekels with morals. The two are mutually exclusive. Currency can never be equated to human life nor criminal acts. Rather, they typically are used to destroy the former and perpetrate the latter.
You’re talking about the same morals which allegedly got Asgari into a solitary cell without any trial and his eventual remote and silent death. We’re not talking about MY shekels or morals here.
I did think that actually considering you are reasonable and was confused by “I am unable to find…” Sorry, my apologies.
Oh please. You act as if I’m ignorant to Israel’s constant lies about an Iranian threat via invocation of an international treaty Israel itself refuses to even sign. You want to talk about world police? Look in the mirror, Matlock.
As much as it pains me, I have to side with Shmuel here. There is a lot of vague supposition in Richard’s post. If there is no real evidence, what is the point of bringing up this story in the first place? Innuendo does not make a case for anything other than hot-dogging your own reputation.
PA’s remarks are no stronger. His defense of Richard is merely lawyer jargon. And his remark about low I.Q. is ad hominem to the maximum.
This is not to say that Richard and PA are not correct. But given that this stuff goes on all the time, both in Israel and the U.S., why is this case so important?
And as much as it pains me, I have to side with Professor Schulman. He and I agree 100 % in assessing a story so replete with smoke and mirrors and such.
Gene, and how does one go about getting evidence of such a crime? Request discovery? Write an angry letter?
Herein liesthe difference between Israel and the US. While in the latter, any black ops by the government may be challenged in a Federal Court (see Padilla, Hamdi, Rasul cases, etc.), in Israel the court is overriden by “national security” bar-none. The media is under gag orders and any peaceful protest is met with sinister intentions. Rachel Corrie is run over by a bulldozer and no real hearing results. Turkish and American citizens are executed in international waters and medals are pinned on the executioners. No hearings, not even a deserved apology to Turkey. A poor girl loses an eye when a soldier recklessly shoots a tear canister right at her — and she was an artist. The instances are endless and I’m not an encyclopedia or google.
And yes, while people get away with things in the US, too. Eventually the hammer falls. This isn’t true for self censored Israel
We have to invent some word for those who are on the other side of the fence to those you call “hasbarists” – at first I thought that you were individual thinkers, but now it seems that you “also” went to the same course of “anti-hasbara 101” and spew up the same stuff over and over again.
I don’t see this with Richard himself, but find that some of the commentators feel that if you say a pretend “fact” enough times it becomes truth.
How about “mitkadmist”? Any time a hasbarist doesn’t agree with the argument he can call the commentator a “mitkadmist’ and by that excuse himself of the need to answer the point in question.
Is this a backdoor confession or something?
And pot, meet kettle. Right here in this thread you ask me if you can get a job over “there”? Any one with a half neuron knows what you are implying. Now you’re a hypocrite, too. Ask your own bosses for a pay raise.
Have to get the US to send more aid before I can expect a pay rise (<;
Joking aside, sometimes I feel that there is a genuine belief here that some commentators here are paid lackeys from some course sponsored by Israel where they learn "hasbara".
Don't be fooled, it's clear to me that all commentators here are private individuals with various opinions
Not so clear to me. I don’t know who some of these commenters are but they spout the same narratives & arguments so that it does appear there is some formal or informal coordination & monitoring of both the blog & the threads either by the MFA or some other Israel advocacy type entity (or both).
Shmuel – don’t be so quick to judge mr. judge
seems to me that your friend PA is a paid hasbartisit of the Iranian information administration.
Another very serious comment rule violation. Your 2nd warning. There won’t be a 3rd.
I have seen similar accusations on Ynet many times. Sometimes people don’t realize how extreme they are, that when someone with an opposing view confronts them, the only logical explanation they can find for an individual sharing such an opinion is being employed by someone else to do so. But us who have not been blinded by our own extremism can clearly see extremists on both sides, and exactly as you say, there are hasbarists, and there are antihasbarists (my own suggested term 🙂
Lord, I’ve been accused of being a paid lackey of Saudi Arabia & even the CIA! It’s almost amusing.
Ilan, and you expect an apology from me? How quick you were to insult me when one was never leveled against you in the first place.
Shmuel, that’s just not true and the Israeli government admits it.
Both of you contradict yourselves within this same thread. You assumed the position of victim, leveled against others false accusations, and now complain that people may not think you’re not committing to a heavy dose of Freudian projection. It’s patently obvious that you’re interested in discrediting me rather than to refute what I have to write. Go ahead, I don’t mind petty criticism. But, yet, you still have ways to go to prove me wrong. Where is your evidence and substantive counterargument?
Eppur si Muove! (look it up)
I don’t think there are any paid Hasbaristas around at the moment, but if you go some months back there were dozens of peoples coming around, who clearly hadn’t read the blog before they started blogging, they literally overran the blog, had a very aggressive attitude, and as soon as Richard banned one, the next came popping up, all following the same procedure. Plain right-wingers ‘wanting peace’. They were maybe not paid, but it must have been some kind of IDF-organized civil service 🙂
If you google you’ll find an unofficial statement from November, I think, about Israel asking for 1000 x-tra ‘helpers’ in various European countries to defend the Israeli cause. Journalists, intellectuals, artists and common civilians ready to give some time; if that isn’t hasbara. And internet is one of the places. I’ve got no link in English, but even the French MSM printed an article about the ‘offer’ (ex; NouvelObs).
PA, I can’t answer your question about getting evidence. But, yes, you can write letters and make a lot of noise. Until that evidence is revealed, though, Israel must be given the benefit of doubt.
There is no difference between the U.S. and Israel in such cases. The recent extension of the “Indefinite Detention Act” makes sure of that. There will be no more cases like Padilla, Hamdi, etc. Look what’s happening with Manning, the alleged leaker to WikiLeaks. Solitary confinement, probably until he dies. Will the U.S. call it suicide? Guantanamo is still the prison of preference, and those still stuck there will remain until they “commit suicide.”
The real problem is that both Israel and the U.S. have become totalitarian states. They run riot over “democratic” principles.
Right, so penning an angry letter will earn you what? FBI detention? Imprisonment?
The black ops actions of the splinter groups in the US are limited by the election process. Hence, the mainstream media manipulation of that process. The behavior of trampling democracy and free press indicates the American vote and popular opinion are still able to trump mischievous governmental actors. The forefathers built a system of checks and balances not for immediate action, but long term accountability. The next administration may very well be one of the people. Nothing is set in stone and the Constitution a light upon all other nations.
Once accountability is had, those acting under the color of America will be separated for their unAmerican actions from the rest. I still have faith in the core principles of our forefathers and I believe they will sweep aside all other intentions like dust bunnies.
It’s nice to keep the faith, PA. That’s the problem in America today, everybody’s got faith that we still have a democracy in our country. But we don’t. I would refer you to the article at http://www.counterpunch.org that I just sent you by Paul Craig Roberts. Those checks and balances our founding fathers gave us have been washed away. Even long term. They won’t come back in our lifetime, I’m afraid. The American dream is turning into a nightmare – for the whole world.
I should clarify that I meant faith in the concepts, not in the current trajectory of the politics. Many say that the current government of Iran has undone the civilization. I don’t believe so either. Iran lives on with or without the land, as it did via the Shahnameh, an epic poem thoroughly rejected by Muslim Caliphate stooge Kings at the end of the Sassanid dynasty. Ferdowsi died before his masterpiece came to life, clearly outlining for us our Farsi – the book contains zero Arabic.
As for the US, the forefathers were aware that these days would come. The document is a relic of their conception of the greatest form of government possible. I believe there was one implicit check you are forgetting: the People. You have illustrated your faith in the youth and, I tell you, what I hear and discuss on a daily basis would pleasantly surprise you. The Internet generation is not limited to printed press and mainstream media. The truth, as it turns out, is far more viral. Tricks will only work once in their lifetime. They’ve already realized that Obama was a red herring, and widely, they’re asking for a third column that doesn’t involve Sarah Failing. The world is also on to the fact that Israel is not an underdog, but a bellicose bully. They see before their eyes a flotilla massacre of a 19 year old American and wonder how it is that their government has failed to follow the American way. The teachers in schools are getting younger, too. When told an convinced that education and civil debate is paramount to pissing contests over who is right or wrong, they listen and they begin to contribute to the next great chapter of Americana.
I can only hope you’re correct about youth. But without education they won’t get very far. Schools today in the U.S. are a disaster. Everything is going toward for-profit charter schools, the students in which are being trained to follow orders and graduate to corporate funded and controlled universities, where, in turn, they are trained for careers in corporatism! Public schools go without funding and without teachers, thus the dropouts are fodder for shit work.
I’m afraid the evil-doers are in charge of the system, and dissidence (your youth) will be suffocated. I refer you (again) to Hedges article at http://www.truthdig.org. All of your “concepts” are now empty.
Yes, I still place my hope in youth. But I am also a realist, whose age has allowed him to lived through youthful good times and learn through experience that times are not the same as they were.
The above cited link should read: http://www.truthdig.com.
Richard, apologies for getting so far off subject. I do not mean to co-opt your blog for my own ranting, but all these little events being argued about are only symptoms of the underlying disease that is attacking society. It is the disease that must be considered, not the symptoms. The disease is called corporate fascism, and it has its tentacles wrapped around our throats. We are suffering from institutionalized fraud and financial manipulation. Not to speak the process of worldwide militarization. This all perpetrated by the U.S., Israel and their European satraps.
Agreed. The problem is centralized and education is necessary. I won’t be naive and speak for the masses, but more often than not, if you can put one crack in the dam, the rest of it will crumble as well. When the misinformation was spread about Cast Lead, I just told everyone disinterested in hearing my shpiel to just google image search “Gaza” and count the unique dead babies and tell me if they can show me the “victims of 10,000” rockets comes close. Surprise! They came back and wanted to know more. People want to sound informed and more often than not they cite what they heard a journalist tell them rather than do the due diligence. Another tip for those disinterested? Find out what Sarah Palin advocates for and choose the diametric opposite. Tada! You now have a platform that will put money into your pocket and directly affect you. Same with John Bolton for foreign policy. If they won a Peace Prize, they wear a medal for toeing an agenda. Sometimes the 20 second soundbite is easily turned on its head. I’ll continue this convo in private out of respect to Richard. I apologize as well. Feel free to edit or remove my comments.
From Press TV
Iran reacts to prisoner death reports
Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:55PM
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Tehran has voiced concern over the publication of reports that former Iranian official Ali-Reza Asgari may have died in an Israeli jail.
“The Israeli regime’s abduction of Asgari with the help of the United States and the Israeli regime’s recent claims is a clear and potent example of state terrorism,” said Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Mohammad Reza Raouf Sheibani on Tuesday.
Sheibani was referring to Israeli media reports that a detainee had committed suicide while in solitary confinement, retriggering speculations that the unidentified prisoner may have been Asgari, who is a retired Iranian general.
In an article published on the Eurasia Review website, journalist Richard Silverstein cast doubt on the death, saying it may have been murder.
This “only makes their responsibility for his life and health heavier,” Sheibani added.
The top diplomat said such acts indicate the “criminal and inhumane” nature of Israel, and called on international organizations to establish the fate of Asgari, a former Iranian deputy interior minister.
Israel has conducted similar criminal acts in the past, namely the kidnapping of four Iranian diplomats in Lebanon, who were later moved to prisons in the occupied territories, the deputy foreign minister added.
Three decades after their abduction, he said, Tel Aviv still refuses to offer information on their fate.
He also urged the international community to probe the case of the four diplomats.
He held Israel responsible for the safety of the Iranian diplomats.
Iranian general killed in Israeli jail?
90% Palestinian detainees denied lawyer
‘Israeli prisons more like dungeons’
In lieu of Hasbara, is rather interesting
lol….this is so convenient
richard reports that the general is being held as prisoner x
a month later…the general is dead
the only ones really reporting on the story are richard and some offbeat iranian online site
of course, its now on wikipedia…so it must be true
PressTV & the Teheran Times are not “offbeat Iranian online sites” unless you believe that any site, merely by dint of its being Iranian is offbeat. Muhammad Sahimi has reported on my research at PBS’s Teheran Bureau. This story is developing almost precisely as the Anat Kamm story did. It starts with a trickle that turns into a torrent. We’re not at the torrent stage yet.
Israel’s Channel 10 did an interview w. me this morning though they & I both bet the censor will nix it. At least they tried though.
Richard deserves due credit for his scoop. I sense a little envy in the tenor of your message. PressTV is hardly offbeat. Perhaps you were referring to the Lamestream Wickedmedia?
PressTV is broadcast by satellite all over the world. It’s nice to have a counterweight to the regular echo chamber regurgitations of those who took us into the Iraq war wholeheartedly, overtly filtered out candidates like Ron Paul for those that were more profitable to corporate donors, or worse.
Kind of odd a a site of PressTV’s reputation would write something like this:
If they hope to ever receive information, they should know it would be offered from Jerusalem.
I don’t follow. Isn’t Tel Aviv the recognized political capital of Israel?
Ahhh I’m late to this political game over where Israel’s capital lays. This is in dispute, but according to the CIA “factbook” all embassies including the US’ is in Tel Aviv. Therefore, Shai, they were quite accurate. This is not a political issue that alters reputation or credibility, nor was that statement even related to the issue you were probably invoking.
That depends on whether you recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, doesn’t it? Most of the world doesn’t.
Even if you don’t recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital (why it won’t be recognized is another discussion on its own), you can’t deny that it’s where Israeli government officials stay… and you can’t make up your own idea of what Israel’s capital is.
I can certainly agree with over 100 nations of the world which maintain embassies in Tel Aviv rather than Jerusalem. These nations refuse to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital until Israel can resolve its dispute w. the Palestinians about Jerusalem’s status. When it can do that then every nation in the world will promptly recognize Israel’s capital & move their embassies.
Interesting that you say I can’t make up my own idea of where Israel’s capital is. Well, similarly Israel has no right to arbitrarily declare Jerusalem to be its undivided city providing no resolution of the I-P conflict nor allowing East Jerusalem to become Palestine’s capital. Israel too is attempting to impose its will on the world & cannot do so.
The world will decide whether it accepts Israel’s designation & so far it doesn’t.
Right, but Shai, do you think Iranian and Israeli officials have a direct line to each other? Iran would seek answers from a friendly embassy stationed in Tel Aviv. Also, whenever other sources cite the political capital, they always use Tel Aviv as well.
On December 1, 2006, the UN General Assembly overwhelmingly voted and held that all Israeli actions in the Occupied Territories, including Jerusalem, are illegal and therefore null and void in accordance with International law.
Even before that, Security Council Resolution 267 was passed on July 3, 1969, stating that the UNSC “censures, in the strongest terms, all measures taken to change the status of the City of Jerusalem.”
“[This resolution] [c]onfirms that all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel which purport to alter the status of Jerusalem, including expropriation of land and properties thereon, are invalid and cannot change that status.”
[UNSC Resolution 262] “[u]rgently calls once more upon Israel to rescind forthwith all measures taken by it which may tend to change the status of the City of Jerusalem, and IN THE FUTURE to refrain from all actions likely to have such an effect.” (Emphasis added).
Other Security Council Resolutions concerning Israel’s illegal occupation of Jerusalem include numbers 252, 298, 446, 452, 465, 471, 476, 478, and 904.
I haven’t even gotten to the General Assembly’s laundry list of resolutions concerning the same.
I think there is something missing in this discussion.
Amir Oren hints at an ongoing investigation.
Obviously, if a prisoner was killed that would not be legal. If Mossad agents (or anybody else) were to kill a prisoner inside Israel, this coverup will be investigated. See the 300 bus operation.
While Israel is discussed as if it is a single conscienceness, it is not. The investigating authorities have held ministers and prime-ministers accountable before. If indeed there was a murder, there is a much more important story than only Irani-Israeli relations.
The only reason why there WAS a Line 300 investigation was that the Shabak tried to blame an IDF general for the fiasco & he fought back & eventually won exoneration. Who in this case will stand for the deceased? Which gov’t official or IDF general will stand up & demand that this injustice be investigated?? Who??
Actually, it was because the photographer Alex Levac managed to photograph the terrorists being alive after the situation with the bus was over and because the, now defunct, “Hadashot” newspaper had the guts to publish a similiar NY times story and Levac’s photograph on the front page despite an explicit gag order.
It was only later that Shabak tried to make it stick to someone else, after the public demanded an investigation following the revelation.
Yes, the photo & bravery of Hadashot was truly amazing & courageous. I’ve displayed the photo here before.
The act of investigating is a good start, but always a bad end if looking at the Israeli way of behaving over the past decade or more. How much investigating was done into the 2006 atrocities where cluster bombs were left behind even after a cease fire was declared for civilians to be hurt by? How much investigating was really done into Cast Lead, the Flotilla Massacre, the Rachel Corrie incident, Emily Henochowicz, an artist who lost her eye while protesting due to reckless IDF action, the daily malfeasance reported by people like Max Blumenthal, Antony Loewenstein, Philip Weiss and, of course, Mr. Silverstein et. al.?
If any investigations are had, the worse Israel comes up with is that they could have prepared better for the “terrorists”. Maybe they should prepare better to avoid breaking universally recognized laws in the first place.
You are right, however, that this is a huge scoop if true (and the preponderance of the evidence shows that it is). It has a lot do with Iranian-Israeli relations. Again, Israel thinks it can act with impunity against a nuclear program that is subject to the most monitoring in the world, gets a clean bill of health time after time, and subjects itself to the obligations and entitlements under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty, while not even signing thereto or even sitting down to talk about Israeli nukes, despite an outstanding 189 nation demand to do so.
By the way, 189 nations really does equal “the World” pretty much.
Former President of Israel just done for Rape, so, yes, you have a point.
Although, French presidents and ministers can be convicted of all sorts of things without it appearing to affect their political momentum in any way.
Curious, was Moishe another non-Ashkenazi? When will Olmert be brought up for war crimes tantamount to several thousand CIVILIANS dead?
Curious Persianadvocate? You think the ARAB judge (George Kara) who was the head of the bench who convicted Katzav is a racist anti Sefaradi and pro ashkenazi?
You’ve really confused me here!
Isn’t Katsav Mizrahic? You tell me the prevailing record and history. I’ve read 100,000s Haredim marched in protest that their children would (God Forbid!) go to school with fellow Jews of Middle Eastern origin
I think that’s an exagerration if you really meant to write that number, though many Haredim certainly do not want their children studying either w. Sephardim or Ethiopians.
Moshe Katzav, former Mûsâ Qasäb, is born in Yazd, Iran, and do still speak fluently Farsi. Maybe he ‘enrolled’ some of those women reciting Persian poetry or pages from Shânameh 🙂
Why post a photo of disappeared retired FBI agent Robert Levinson with a caption about Iranian IRGC general Ali Reza Asgari?
Thanks for catching the error. When I did a Google Image search for “Ali Reza Asgari” this image came up & because it resembled Asgari I presumed it was him. But I’m going back to the standard blurry one everyone else is using. If anyone knows of a better image, pls let me know.
Promote this blog and spread the word!
Well then, I don’t suppose we need to wonder whether Israel might possibly sign this new treaty!
UN: End ‘Disappearances’ Worldwide ~ HRW, CommonDreams.org, 12/22/10
ENTIRE PRESS RELAPSE – http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2010/12/22-12
The plot thickens. This may be Iran’s prompt retaliation:
Already discussed ad nausea above and thoroughly rejected.
Thoroughly rejected by you, others think it possible
Not just me, the prevailing world opinion. You’ve been drinking the kool aid as others here already pointed out. Want me to run a non-slander list of truthful assertiOns against Israel?
If this is all true, Israel may trade the body for its lost navigator Ron Arad that was held in Teheran for many years.
You have no evidence whatsoever that he was held in Teheran, let alone for many yrs. The evidence I’ve heard says he died in Lebanon sometime after he was captured.
The Israeli press was full of articles claiming that he was held in Teheran. However, if this doesn’t work, he can be traded for Gilad Shalit, the Isreali soldier held by the Hamas deprived of all his human rights.
What would Hamas want with the dead body of an Iranian general? Are they interested in using him as an art installation piece, perhaps?
I know it is fashionable to treat Iran as the source of all ills in the Middle East, but you can hardly claim that Hamas is an Iranian enterprise.
That’s crap. Provide a single link to a single Israeli story that says what you claim. YOu don’t know what you’re talking about. Israeli press said he defected to the west, not that he was in Teheran.
Dear Mr. Silverstein,
Would you care to re-read my message and arologize?
I think it is VERY obvious that my words relate to Ron Arad and not to the alleged kinnapped/detained/assasinated Iranian general.
Unfortunately, when I read & reply to comments I don’t see the entire thread, but only the comment I’m replying to, so you’re right I mistakenly confused Arad w. Asgari. But you still are wrong about Arad. I’ve never read or heard that he was held in Teheran, let alone for yrs. I read the Israeli press too & have never heard this there. Not saying some tabloid or other may not have reported something like this, but I don’t believe this is the consensus of what happened to him.
Even so Maurice, provide a single link and also don’t forget the other 9+ Iranian nationals that disappeared in the same vein as Asgari.
Link to what?
All you have to do is to google:
“רון ארד איראן”
and you will have the information.
Those key words “Ron Arad Iran” tell you nothing, as it’s generally believed that Iran either directly or through proxies either captured him or had custody of him at some time. You’re trying to prove fr. this that he spent “many yrs. in Teheran” as you claimed? Puh-leeze.
Those key words “Ron Arad Iran” tell you nothing, as it’s generally believed that Iran either directly or through proxies either captured him or had custody of him at some time. You’re trying to prove fr. this that he spent “many yrs. in Teheran” as you claimed? Puh-leeze.
The fact that it’s not in English should make you go hmmmmmm did they feed me something for internal consumption only?
Well, I did it for you.
The detailed connection betwee Asgari and the disappearance of Ron Arad is described in Ronen Bergman’s book “Point of No Return” (2007). For information on Bergman look at :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronen_Bergman.
This might also satisfy Mr. Silverstein’s craving for evidence.
Haven’t read the book. If you have credible evidence you’d like to present that Arad spent many yrs in Teheran as you claim bring it here.
do we have here a tit for tat? X was killed/died on the 18th and Siadat was hanged a week latter?
Ron, no, not really. They announced the spy’s execution before this story was scooped by Richard.
i guess the Iranians has their own resources, and they don’t depend on Richard.
Or was this an Israeli tit for a Persian tat? It can work both ways.
Not so, the announcement of the alleged spy was the day after Richard’s scoop
That execution went through a full judicial process that was initiated a while ago. Look up “due process”. It takes longer than a day to do what Iran did. Ali Asgari was killed the night after Richard wrote about him. Again, Israel’s REAL Supreme Court has shown to be the IDF’s rifle.
For those who think Zaka is either a dependable source or a naive group of well meaning people – please start by learning a little bit about them.
Zaka is a Haredi organization that works hand in glove with the Israeli security forces. Did you ever wonder why the state of Israel needs an NGO to take care of the bodies of its dead prisoners (and terror victims, car accidents and suicide)? I often do.
In any case, if you want to learn a little about Zaka’s political leanings, read this Ynet article about the approval of their plan to build new HQ and a museum for terror victims in Sheikh Jarach in Eastern Jerusalem :
Thanks for this background info. It strengthens my belief that their claim of the age of the deceased could be wrong, perhaps deliberately so.
Do you know what it generally does with these bodies? I’d like to know what Zaka or the security forces did with this man’s body. I suppose they couldn’t burned it to get rid of the evidence…
Zaka collets and cares for bodies and body parts in cases of massive terror or accident events. Most of the other deads are taken care by the regular public burrial organizations. Zaka has no forrensic capacity and they are not expected or required to give any evidence on such subjects.
Zaka enters into action whenever they are required, sometimes even out of Israel.
do you never tire of making a laughing stock of yourself? jumping to unfounded and wild conclusions on a whim, in order to have a wild eyed dig at the Israeli security forces? You do not have a clue who died in that prison. You do not have a clue how the person died in that prison, but that did not stop you from making unfounded conspiracy claims of murder. and you even take some credit for your own mythical outcome and then make your fictional murdered man a martyr for your made up cause. this is hilarious stuff, especially your over inflated ego and self importance. keep up the comedy!
I venture to say it will be you who will be a laughing stock by the time the truth is known about this incident. I believe I’ve revealed the truth. My sources believe what they tell me. Who are your sources who tell you differently & let’s stack them up against ea. other for authenticity, shall we?
as you stated publicly, you don’t even know who your sources are.
Your sources can be practically anyone from meir dagan to the Iranian government.
This attempt to discredit Richard’s source is a coordinated effort and transparent. Back to the drawing board 😉
You seem not to understand the rules around here. You don’t repeat yrself. You state an argument or make a statement once, then you’re done. You’ve repeated this statement one time too many. Don’t do it again.
My source is in Ehud Barak’s personal circle & not as you say “practically anyone.” And someone who I do know directly knows very specifically who that source is. I trust both of them. That’s the way you sometimes have to operate when you’re dealing w. a national security state.
Israeli government to hire internet trolls
Ynet News, Israel – The Foreign Ministry unveiled a new plan this week: Paying talkbackers to post pro-Israel responses on websites worldwide. A total of NIS 600,000 (roughly $150,000) will be earmarked to the establishment of an “Internet warfare” squad.
The Foreign Ministry intends to hire young people who speak at least one language and who study communication, political science, or law – or alternately, Israelis with military experience gained at units dealing with information analysis.
Beyond the fact that these job requirements reveal a basic lack of understanding in respect to the dynamics of the online discourse – the project’s manager argued that “adults don’t know how to blog” – they are not too relevant either. An effective talkbacker does not need a law degree or military experience. He merely needs to care about the subject he writes about.
The sad truth is that had Israeli citizens believed that their State is doing the right thing, they would have made sure to explain it out of their own accord. Without being paid.
In these circumstances, almost anything might have happened and almost any lie might be told, by either party.
It isn’t very obvious to me why Israel would have needed to kill someone being kept so effectively under wraps anyway, and one would have thought that every precaution against suicide was probably taken.
What rules out natural causes, aggravated by confinement and ill-treatment? That’s the tale of most prisoner mortality, worldwide.
And I’ve heard too much about the precise nature of “due process” in non-political cases in Iranian to share Persian Advocate’s confidence in due process when there’s some kind of political stake involved.
Most contributors to these pages appear to pay attention only to “politically significant” cases and events; you have to pay a bit of attention to the ordinary to have any chance of correctly interpreting the extraordinary when it happens.
If the man died simply because he was in the prison environment, and a lot of people do, or if he commited suicide because he was held captive, then questions of wrong or right should be directed at whether he should have been in prison or not in the first place.
Your logic is flawed by the very fact that he wasn’t effectively kept under wraps. If Israel’s leadership are rational actors, cite me an example. It’s probably easier than me listing the 627373738387373737737363628282773^5 gajillionth where they were not. (someone calculate that number for me) ;p
People just post regurgitated arguments here. Sounds like the hasbarists have arrived!
If you had any effect on his life, if would have increased pressure to keep him alive. You can’t think that you are responsible.
Israel is obsessed about delegitimization. A fake “suicide” is another blow to their reputation.
Someone could’ve conducting a torture session to extract information and they went to far, like the triple suicides at GTMO. He was worth more alive.. well, to sane and reasoning people.
Richard’s aim was humanitarian. The response was one typical of organized crime.