78 thoughts on “One-Third of Israeli Support Wartime Concentration Camps for Palestinian Citizens – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.

  1. What is so shocking? They’ve already got all of Gaza in a concentration camp. Not to speak of the walls and barbed wire in occupied West Bank. From what I understand, its indigenous Palestinian citizens are not much better off.

    Isn’t it always war time in Palestine? Will they never learn, even from their own experiences? Pfui!!

  2. Who do you think would lead the charge to intern Iranians and Muslims in case of a war?

    I am betting Abe Foxman and the ADL, who led the charge against Park51.

        1. What about them? What are you claiming? That they are interned? Oppressed? Oy, I hear the strains of the violins rising as we hear once again about the poor Jews of Iran facing penury & the gallows all for being Jewish.

          Just remember, if you reply you offer facts & not propaganda or grandstanding.

        2. The Jews in Iran are doing quite well, thank you, as confirmed by a delegation of Wetern Rabbis who visited Iran, met with Jewish community and religious leaders, and also met with Ahmadinajad to talk about the Jewish community in Iran.

          If you are at all interested in facts, you might find it enlightening to check out the U.S. State Department Human Rights Reports on Iran. If you do, you will find that minority religious rights are quite well protected, and minority religious institutions supported by the government. The notable exception are the Baha’i, who are persecuted by the Iranian government.

          And finally, it is odious to suggest that non-Jewish rights anywhere in the world should be contingent upon Jewish rights anywhere else in the world.

    1. we have been at war with iraq and afghanistan

      has anyone called for internment camps for american muslims or arabs…let alone the adl?

      this is a silly statement

      1. has anyone called for internment camps for american muslims or arabs

        Yes, in fact. David Yerushalmi. I wrote about it here & quoted him. YOu must’ve missed that. More laziness. And his allies Robert Spencer, Pam Geller, Frank Gaffney, will not be far behind.

        Not so silly after all I guess.

      2. It was and it wasn’t. As per Richard’s comments, I could have made a more fair statement and included the other people.

      3. Ummm – yes. Actually since 9/11 there have been quite a few calls for internment from a variety of individuals and groups for the internment of Iraqis, Arabs, Muslims, etc.

    2. Michelle Malkin has already written a book defending the Japanese internment. So she’d be on the band wagon along w. Limbaugh, Coulter, Geller, Pipes, Podhoretz, & the whole right wing shebang.

  3. I assume, since you’re talking about citizens, that you’re talking about Israeli Arabs.

    I do agree that during wartime they’re a security risk. Most Jewish Israelies believe that they’d join the enemy and try to join the war.

    However, the idea of concentration camps is rediculous – they’d probably just be asked to stay at their villages.

    Take, for example, the last war with Lebanon. No concentration camps even though some Israeli arabs – one of them an MP, no less, were traitors and collaberated with the enemy launching rockets at civillian targets.

    1. I do agree that during wartime they’re a security risk. Most Jewish Israelies believe that they’d join the enemy and try to join the war.

      What racist dreck. The proof of the pudding is in the eating & Israeli Palestinians have never done this. Ever.

      some Israeli arabs – one of them an MP, no less, were traitors and collaberated with the enemy launching rockets at civillian targets.

      That is a disgusting lie. And if you can’t provide actual factual proof fr. a credible source that this is true, you will be banned in 24 hrs. I’m very serious about this.

        1. What narischkeit. This is “proof?” I asked you for facts and proof that Bishara did what you claimed. And what do you offer? Hebrew Wikipedia. That’s proof? Where is it even inside the article? I’m willing to ascribe some authority to Wikipedia articles on some subjects, but only when they are carefully sourced & confirmed by really credible sources, none of which is the case here.

          You wrote in your comment that an Israeli Palestinian MK helped Hezbollah direct its attacks against Israel. That, I repeat, is a disgusting lie. And to prove that Azmi Bishara did this you link to a Wikipedia article which proves what? First, the Israeli press claimed that an anonymous security source claimed that Bishara did this. No proof offered & the claim wasn’t even sourced. If Bishara was such an enemy of the state Shabak had every opportunity to place him in the docket and try him for treason. But they didn’t. And in fact allowed him to go into involuntary exile.

          So you’ve offered unfounded claims against Bishara which I’ve addressed and demolished here before (no doubt you didn’t even bother to read what I’d written on the subject). An unfounded claim by Shabak becomes a lie when it is repeated often enough & becomes a disgusting lie when it is repeated so often it becomes a Goebbels “Big Lie,” which this one has become.

          I’m willing to say in yr case that you believed this lie to be true. So I’m not banning you outright. But I warn you if you ever make such an unfounded statement again here on such a subject you will lose yr comment privileges. And if you don’t understand what you did or why I find it so offensive you better give it some thought if you want to remain.

          1. Please don’t ban shmuel. Let everyone know what an a-hole he is. He is a perfect example of what he represents.

          2. Gene, no one is threatening to ban me, I’m not an a-hole and you seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder.

            Can’t you even read a name at the top of a comment? No wonder you spout what you spout.

            Apology might be nice, but I doubt if you’re able to admit you’re wrong

          3. No, that’s Avi we’re talking about. Not Shmuel. The latter may be a bit of a pain, but he’s a commenter in good standing. I think Gene does sometimes jump the gun. But I also understand the confusion he experienced as I sometimes confuse one commenter w. another inadvertently.

          4. No, no better. Once again, a reporter quoting an anonymous Shabak source saying Bishara did this or that is proof of nothing. If you’ve learned anything fr. yr time at this site, you’ve learned that Shabak habitually makes unfounded smears and accusations about Israeli Palestinians. Bishara chief among them. So I repeat: do you have any real facts, real proof? If not you’re merely doing Shabak’s work by recapitulating the junk it’s been trying to peddle for years. You can peddle this s(&t if you like, but not here.

            And fyi, Haaretz is not uniformly reliable, again as you’d know if you read my writing about it. Just as a fer instance it claimed that Tamir Pardo’s identity was not know anywhere until he was named Mossad director. Again, you should know that’s not true if you read him identified here first. Further, it’s reporters are often just as gullible & stenographic when it comes to security sources as the rest of Israel’s media.

          5. I’ll take being “a pain” as a compliment because if I annoy you that means I’m at least I giving you a bit of food for thought even though it may not be kosher enough for you

        2. My most humble apologies to shmuel. I was confused because at some point earlier I did make the same comment about you, and Richard chastized me for it. He’s right, I do sometimes jump the gun. And again, I apologize. But you have to admit that you and Avi are hard to tell apart.

          A chip on my shoulder? You bet I have.

          1. # Gene Shulman]
            Mon ami francophone 🙂
            I think you’re wrong: Avi and Shmuel are Israelis both, but their ideologies are very different. But then again, I have ‘un faible’ for Shmuel since he stated that he is in favour of some kind of a One State-solution with extended autonomy on religious matters. He is a English gentleman with a kippa instead of a bowler hat 🙂

        3. I really DO love it when people present Wikipedia as a credible source. Dude, if that is the best you can do, you are in real trouble.

    2. the idea of concentration camps is rediculous – they’d probably just be asked to stay at their villages.

      So, you’d just turn “their villages” into concentration camps.

      And how nicely you display your racism by your assumption that they all live in “their villages” – kind of like the American Indians all live on their reservations? Oops! I have a Cherokee man and his family living right across the street in my nice suburban community. Oh, well, so much for THAT stereotype.

      As for your traitor accusations, try that somewhere else where less knowledgeable, sophisticated people hang out. It’ll work better there.

    3. The term Israeli Arabs is also a racist term invented to 1) differentiate citizens of “The Jewish State” who happen to be of the wrong ethnicity, 2) pretend the Palestinians are just Arabs and not people of a distinct regional/national origin. Most Palestinian citizens of Israel reject the term Israeli Arabs.

      1. Yet Silverstein continues to use the term “Israeli Jews.” They are merely Israelis.

        Would you prefer Israeli Islamists? Perhaps Israeli Mohamadens?

        1. I use the term “Israeli Jews” when I intend to speak about Israelis who are Jewish. When I speak about all Israelis I use the single word to do so. Other Israelis are Israeli Palestinians. There are Israeli Bedouin and Israeli Druze and Israeli Chrisitians as well. Or are you so insular that you don’t recognize either the fact that Israel is multi ethnic or you don’t know that these are the proper terms to use to describe these ethnic communities??

          1. Richard, I am not sure why you distinguish Bedouin, Druze, and Christian citizens of Israel from Palestinian citizens of Israel. They are all Palestinian, and overwhelmingly identify as such. If anyone makes a distinction it is Jewish Israelis who do so, and for very suspect reasons.

    1. Oh my, you mean an alleged report from Haifa radio as reported by the nutters at Rotter and based undoubtedly on an anonymous source who may not have even seen the alleged celebration–from this we should accuse Israeli Palestinians of what? Treason? C’mon.

      1. That’s neither the last nor the least of the many problems w. ol’ Uncle Joe’s nasty, unfounded anti-Arab diatribe. Glad to see though that he covers the radical right Israeli boards for us.

        1. Agree. I would like to know when Uncle Joe became so right wing and what made him become like this. I guess we’ll never find out.

          1. Oooh, that’s like lifting up a rock to see what’s growing underneath. You’re welcome to find out what goes on in that alleged mind of his if he wants to engage. But he usually does a drive by here once in a while: pops a provocative question & leaves for another site where he undoubtedly has Hasbara duty.

    2. # Uncle Joe McCarthy)
      “Arab citizens . . . were seen cheering . . ”

      I think it’s as solid as the “Five Dancing Israelis” on 9/11.

    1. They are Japanese-American children detained in a U.S. internment camp during WWII. I meant the photo as a historical warning of what could happen to Israeli Palestinians acc. to the survey question result.

  4. I think there is a lot of disingenuity in this thread – surely the statistical answer is very dependant on what the question asked was? (Can you provide the exact question asked please, Richard?)

    If the question was:
    “Do you think citizens who aid and abet the enemy during a war should be interned for the duration of the war?”
    Then I’m not surprised that 33% were in favour.

    If the question was:
    “Do you think all Arabs should be detained in concentration camps during any war as a security precaution?”
    Then I’d be shocked to see 33% supporting this.

    Any discussion without the format of the question is pure vaccuous venting.

    1. I’m quoting from & linked to the full report as IDI described it. This is how the IDI phrased it verbatim. They don’t offer the full questions as asked of respondents. But you have the link to the site & can e mail them if this concerns you so much.

      As for disingenuity (the word is “disingenuousness” btw), nonsense. There is absolutely no difference between the term “internment” and “concentration camp.” And the IDI itself linked Japanese internment to the issue in the way they framed their discussion of the question. I didn’t make it up. Yr attempt to create a distinction is disingenuous.

      1. I beg to differ, there is at least a psychological difference between “internment’ and a “concentration camp”.

        “Internment” reminds me of Germans (including Jews) who were imprisoned by the British in the UK in WW2 in humane conditions with adequate food and accomodation and visitation and correspondence rights.
        A “concentration camp” conjours up in my mind the British camps in the Boer War or the Nazi camps, in both of which anyone lucky enough to survive the rampant disease came out like a walking skeleton, diseased and suffering from malnutrition, having had no rights whatsover, etc.

        I’m sure NO Israeli, even Kahanists or the like, would agree to Palestinians or others to be imprisoned in “concentration camp” conditions, even if convicted of murder.

        And no, Gene, Gaza is nowhere near concentration camp level. Bad there, maybe worse than bad, but keep to proportions and historical perspective when arguing.

        1. there is at least a psychological difference between “internment’ and a “concentration camp”.

          Tell it to the Japanese interned in concentration camps at Manzanar & other hell holes. They would tell you (& I knew one of the internees personally) there was no difference. And there is none.

          I’m sure NO Israeli, even Kahanists or the like, would agree to Palestinians or others to be imprisoned in “concentration camp” conditions

          You are so unbelievably naive. You think Kahanists wouldn’t approve of Palestinians in concentration camps? The only reason they might not is that they might prefer to forcibly expel them before it even came to that.

          Gaza is nowhere near concentration camp level.

          This is a ridiculous distinction once again on yr part. Is Gaza merely a hell hole or a concentration camp? Are children starving or merely suffering malnutrition? Is Israel allowing in 100 trucks a day or 200? These are distinctions with no meaning. Israel’s actions in Gaza are unpardonable, illegal, & it will pay. When you break international law no one will be asking whether how severe was the violation. They’ll merely be proving in the Hague that it was broken & that will be sufficient to establish accountability for the ghouls who maintain this abomination.

          1. Here, here, Richard. (Or is that hear, hear?)

            And shmuel, maybe I ought to take back my apology, I really do think you are one.

          2. Gene, it seems you are a bit like Dr Jeckle and Mr. Hyde – one minute I’m an arse-hole and the next you apologize profusely to me and then again I become an arse-hole.

            You should try intellectual arguement with people with whom you disagree, it’s called debating or dialogue, and can even lead to people understanding how the other side thinks and feels.

            Try it, and you might even feel good. That’s why I enjoy participating in this blog, it keeps me having to understand that not all the right is on one side. Or are you so convinced that your own convictions are right that you can’t tolerate opposition? Or are you here just to hear other people who agree with you and insult those who don’t.

            And Richard, I don’t think Gene is “jumping the gun”, he’s just rude.

          3. Richard: ” When you break international law no one will be asking whether how severe was the violation. They’ll merely be proving in the Hague that it was broken & that will be sufficient to establish accountability for the ghouls who maintain this abomination”.

            I disagree, law, international or otherwise, absolutely deals with the severity of the infraction. That’s when the whole question of punishment comes in, according to how bad the infraction was. For example if you pass a red light you may get fined, but if you kill a pedestrian in doing so you’ll get prison. Also, even if a law is broken that doesn’t necessarily mean that there will an indictment as many times there is no “public interest” in a trial or in the cost vs. expected outcome of the trial (acquital or insignificant punishment).

            Here also you are very quick to find international law infractions (some of which you and others may consider very serious), but when it comes down to Hague it’s only wanton unprovoked mass murderers who have got there, and only after much international deliberation. Gaza may indeed be bad, but don’t think that international law jurists will think it in any way bad enough to warrant an international tribune under the war-crimes banner.

            I think you are in the realm of “hope” and not in the realm of practical international realpolitik, and consider the Hague tribunals far more important than most countries consider it to be.

            It’s much more important to fight for change than worrying about some mis-placed ideal of all the baddies getting their just deserts like a bad western with Clint Eastwood. (Or maybe I should have said Ronald Reagen?)

          4. law, international or otherwise, absolutely deals with the severity of the infraction

            Yes, it does. But believe me, the severity of Israel’s infraction is quite sufficient for it to be hauled before a court in the Hague. They won’t make a distinction bet. whether Gaza was a concentration camp or merely a very nasty place to live under this brutal Israeli-supported siege. So if you want to argue that the IDF officers in charge of the siege should get 10 yrs or 5 yrs in prison, that I’m willing to concede to you. But the notion that they deserve prison time & will at some pt in future get it is indisputable among those who are reasonable observers of this tragedy.

            when it comes down to Hague it’s only wanton unprovoked mass murderers who have got there, and only after much international deliberation. Gaza may indeed be bad, but don’t think that international law jurists will think it in any way bad enough to warrant an international tribune under the war-crimes banner.

            Operation Cast Lead fully qualifies as “wanton mass murder.” Besides I disagree that a crime has to rise to that level of severity for it to get to the Hague. Israel’s policymakers & enforcers will get to the Hague, mark my words. And if they were smart they’d mitigate their behavior now before it gets to that pt. But one thing you can always count on about Israeli policy & those repsonsible for it that they will only change their ways at the very last moment & only under extreme international or U.S. duress. By then however, it will too late & the judges & lawyers will already be on the case & the warrants & indictments will already be served.

            It’s much more important to fight for change

            Speaking of which, what are you doing as an Israeli citizen to mitigate any of these crimes?

          5. No shmuel, I am a constant Dr. Jeckyll. You’ve always been an arse-hole, to use your terminology. I merely bunched avi in with you.

            Intellectual argument? If I could find one in your posts, I’d be happy to accommodate you. Your problem is that you are fixated with the idea that Israel can do no wrong and that it is the victim of evil forces out to destroy it. You have been so indoctrinated with that ideology that when anyone challenges it with legitimate debate, you automatically fly into hasbara auto-defense. In not one of your posts have I found your argument either correct or intellectual.

          6. Can we stick to debate or even argument w/o introducing anatomical insults? Shmuel gets me mad too at times, but I try to channel my anger into proving him wrong rather than calling him names.

        2. I’m sure NO Israeli, even Kahanists or the like, would agree to Palestinians or others to be imprisoned in “concentration camp” conditions, even if convicted of murder.

          I would have LOVED to be in your delusional position but I’m afraid reality is harsher than you believe it to be. I have been personally told by more than one person that they believe Palestinians should not only be put in concentration camps, but in extermination ones, too. I suggest you pay a visit to the “heart of the nation” and discuss this issue with residents of Netanya, Tiberias, Sefad, Eilat, and many, many other places.

  5. Two interesting reflections:

    PA firefighters are helping put out the fires (!), and PA has issued a symphatetic message.

    There are rumors of arson. The rumors blame the fires on Israeli Arabs, Heuzballa’s and even Iran’s agents.

    1. Yeah seriously! And besides it being just rumors it’s also pretty dumb.

      Maybe it’s Eli Yishai spreading these rumors to distract from the fact that his ministry wasn’t able to put in place a proper civil defence mechanism that can effectively control a fire like this.

      Try buying a water bomber or two maybe so you wouldn’t have to borrow them from neighbouring countries or installing an early warning system with a few watch towers in forested areas like the Carmel.

    2. This just shows that Avi knows nothing about his Arab fellow citizens. They love the land far too much to ever think of putting it on fire. It’s because they love the land deeply that they won’t ever leave it.
      Only fanatical nutcases would do a thing like that: by the way I have in mind various fires in the West Bank started by extremists settlers.
      So this is really another example of the saying “It takes one to know one”.

      But the fire itself – and the suspicions – would of course be a perfect excuse to transfer Arabs from the area. Even better, if Isreal could convince the world that Isreali Palestinians are in fact a danger to the State, here we go: internment camps. Maybe Richard’s article is premonitory.

      1. And that’s precisely why I banned Avi, because he was deliberately fomenting such lies. Relations are bad enough as it is w/o allowing people like him w. malicious agendas to poison the waters further.

    1. I really don’t like where this is going. I’ve already put you on notice about spreading such gossip & nonsense. Rumors have no place here. Wait till you have proof of what you believe & do NOT report rumors. This is a final warning. The next violation & yr privileges are lost.

      After reading this in Haaretz today, I’ve decided to revoke yr privileges. When you can confirm to me in writing that you understand the rules & intend to abide by them I might consider reinstating you:

      Two male residents of Daliat al-Carmel were released on Friday after having earlier been arrested on the suspicion that they had attempted to ignite fires in the Carmel hills region.

      After being questioned by police, it became clear that the two were not responsible for the acts they were suspected of.

      The initial inquiry conducted by fire investigators has pointed to negligence, not arson, as the cause of the largest wildfire in Israeli history.

      You need to understand that there are rules here & consequences to ignoring them.

        1. It’s not consolation Shai, it’s anger…

          …anger at incompetent ministers who fail to do their job and instead blame someone else; anger at a government that spends exorbitant amounts on F16s, F15s and F-what-nots but fails to buy one single water bomber that would have cost a fraction of that; a government that builds a wall/fence system zig-zagging through the West Bank with fancy electronic warning systems and all the bells and whistles, accompanied by who knows how many watch towers sometimes manned, sometimes equipped with video surveillance systems, again at exorbitant costs when a small portion of that would have been enough to build an early warning system in the Carmel and other areas.

          Don’t you think your government is failing and/or fouling you?

        2. Ah, now I read the ynet article you linked to in your comment and just now understood what you were referring to with your consolation remark.

          Well yes, schadenfreude is never very nice. Yet I agree it seems a little odd that the Near East’s mightiest state finds it so hard to fight the fire – see my previous comment.

          1. “isn’t very nice” is an understatement.

            And oh yes, I do think my government is failing us. That’s what everyone else here thinks too.

        3. Even this article is not “factual,” when the headline says “Hezbollah overjoyed” by fire, while the actual text of the article quotes a Hezbollah statement that doesn’t express the faintest joy at Israel’s distress. Criticism, yes. But isn’t criticism warranted?

        4. # Shai)
          What’s more interesting than the article itself, are the comments. Lots of them go much furtherr than ‘internment camps’.
          And not only the Arab world is amazed by this total lack of competence. In France, journalists openly ask: how come a country with nuclear weapons doesn’t have appropriate material to put out a fire.
          First in Haïti, but incapable in Haïfa.
          And I do completely understand the Arab countries’ ‘scadenfreude’. Israel made ‘the desert blossom’ but can’t stop a fire.

          1. Ah, yes, ynet talkbackers. A pity you can’t read Hebrew – you’d be in for one amazing ride. I don’t think they represent anything, however, as I don’t know a single intelligent person who comments on ynet.

          2. The ynet talkbackers may not be intelligent but that doesn’t mean they are not dangerous.

            The so-called neo-nazis in places like Eastern parts of Berlin who go around spraying swastikas on Jewish graves are certainly not intelligent either and – thankfully – nowadays operate on the fringes of society.

            The problem in both cases is that people like these are susceptible to being led, or rather duped, into doing even more terrible things by others who exploit them and we know they would do it in the right sort of conditions.

  6. Even given all I’ve heard about Israeli politics, I still find this shocking. Something I once read in a comic book (no kidding): “The oppressed love their oppressors and cannot wait to follow their example.”

    And you know, I think if such a poll were taken here in the USA, (substitute any flavor-of-the-decade enemy nationality for Palestinian) the results would not be dissimilar. Just think how often the pundits talk about “rounding up all illegal immigrants” to be deported.

    Human nature is sad.

    1. Indeed, it is human nature. And being that it is human nature, the Israelis are entitled to have the same fears, worries, and bigotry as every other human being on earth. However, there are those who would deny israelis their humanity. There are those who demand the Israelis be better than any other humans.

      That’s a shame.

      1. There are those who demand the Israelis be better than any other humans.

        Nonsense. They are only asking that Israelis live up to their own self-description.

  7. great article, richard. we must remember, too, that palestinian citizens of israel were under martial law for the first 20 years of the state’s existence. jaffa/yafo is a particularly interesting case… the palestinians that were still there after the war were rounded up and moved into the ajami neighborhood, which was then enclosed with barbed wire.

    no, this wasn’t a concentration camp–nor was martial law–but it’s the same concept– containment of the “enemy” within.

  8. oops, i meant to say that the palestinians that were still in jaffa/yafo after the 1948 war…

  9. Perhaps the best thing would be to relocate the 33% of the survey that favors putting Palestinian Israel citizens in concentration camps during wartime to Poland, Germany and Russia, and put them in the now musea former concentration camps of the hitler regime!

    As to not generalizing comments (…….) I think it is shocking to see that people with the Jewish faith, living in a state that was created amongst others due to the atrocities that happened during WW2 against people with the Jewish faith, feel it fitting to put people who are in fact fellow citizens in concentration camps, equal to Americans finding it fitting to put communists in concentration camps during the Cold war, and or putting Asian people, especially people of Japanese origin, in concentration camps during WW2!

    I thought that, regardless of the present day atrocities in the Middle East, people with the knowledge and awareness of 2013 would not lower themselves to such low level of humanity, in fact one of the lowest levels of humanity as far as I am concerned!
    One can only pity the state of intelligence of these 33%, were I regard them indeed as lower then the members of the hitler regime, as the 2013 individuals do know, and are aware 100% of what the principle of locking people up due to their origin means!
    It is, in my opinion at least, inconceivable that people with the Jewish faith are able to think this way!

    (and yes, I am aware of the fact that possibly my comment is generalizing, but when writing down what I feel at this moment, the repulsion, the disgust and above all the disregard for these 33%, I am sure the Owner/Moderator of this blog would ban me…… So I kept my reaction more or less to a civilized level. I hope he accepts that)

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

%d bloggers like this: