17 thoughts on “Tea Party Senate Candidate Denies Separation of Church and State in Constitution – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Not that I am a fan of hers, BUT:

    In the debate, O’Donnell appears to be questioning the placement of the words “separation of church and state” in the constitution. It is entertaining to note that she is actually correct – there are no words saying that church and state should be separated, but only that Congress should make no law establishing religion in the First Amendment.

    1. Only in America! It was much more enlightening to watch an interview with Rolland Holland and Dominique de Villepan, both potential presidential candidates, on French television last night. At least these French have the benefit of an education, whatever their particular political leanings.

      Vive la France, and vive les etudiants who have the guts to take to the streets to dissent from American style fascism of the Sarkozy administration. It should happen in America. And to be consistent, in Israel, too!

        1. Thanks for catching that goof, Deir. My old neurons are acting up, and I had in mind Romain Rolland. It is Francois Hollande, indeed.

          1. and Dominique de Villepin, not Villepan 🙂
            although to be fair, Villepin put even more youngsters in the streets with his CPE law project when he was prime minister than there are actually. Now he has the nice guy role compared to the hysterical dwarf known as “our” president, but yeah, his cultural background allows him to shine from time to time.

          2. # totoro)
            I’m sure no ‘villepiniste’ neither would I vote for François Hollande – though he has a lot of humour – but I do adore de Villepin for his speech in the UN in the days before the American invasion of Iraq and his defense of “Old Europe”. That day I was very proud of ‘our’ Minister of Foreign Affairs.
            France have had some great Ministers of Foreign affairs, Rolland Dumas under Mitterrand, for instance, when French politics in the Middle East were still balanced. That’s over now with Sarko and his pro-israeli court.
            Same way, I would never vote for Chirac but his reaction in the Old City in Jerusalem in Oct 1996 gives him a special place in my heart. The Israeli military following him on his visit through the Souk were trying to prevent him from talking to the Palestinian shop-keepers and he stopped, and said very angryly: “Do you want me to take my plane, and go back to France ?”.

      1. “Vive la France, and vive les etudiants who have the guts to take to the streets to dissent from American style fascism of the Sarkozy administration.”

        I don’t know what your economic backround is but if you are refferring about the raising the age of the retirement in France its about gathering enough wealth before the older generation retires. In my country they already increased the minimal retirement age and its good because the people who are between ages 50-60 are a much bigger age group bigger than the next generation and the younger generation cannot as of now support the retirement of the elder. Who do you think is going to pay the retirement? the retiring? No, the next one of course. These are precautions that are taking in European countries. That as policy is not fascism. I think you have not been following the news.

        And about the politician who doesn’t know constitution, i can tell you that in my country we had an representative of the senate who had tattoo above his buttcheeks that said “Exit Only”, referring to homofobism.

        1. Yes, indeed, Yahoo. Just who is going to pay for their elder’s retirement if the young are kept out of the work force? Let the elders retire – they paid for their benefits – and allow the youth to get jobs and help grow the economy. That growth will keep soc. sec. benefits in the black. I suggest you read Mark Weisbrot’s article in yesterday’s http://www.commondreams.org for a clearer explanation on this subject.

          As for “the politician who doesn’t know the constitution” I have no idea what you’re talking about.

          Totoro: Thanks for your spelling correction, too. I would like to make clear that I am not recommending either of the mentioned gentlemen for office. I was only making a point about their education as compared to US politicians. De Villepin made his reputation with his UN speech against the Iraqi war. Otherwise, he is of the same cut as the other conservatives in France. The Socialists in France play the same role Democrats do in the US. And, unfortunately, are about as effective. Alas.

          1. Gene,

            its not about the youth not getting the job, its about the youth cannot support the retirement of older generation, especially the ones born after WW2, which is in europe larger than the next generation from that. They need the current workforce to gather as much capital before the retirement. Even if you retire now every person between 55-60 and give their jobs to the next the generation there isn’t enough workforce to support their retirement. the governments will “bankrupt”. simple math.

            I presume you don’t live in Europe so you havent been following this issue which has taken place for years in many European countries. Every country in EU has to maintain stable economy within EU framework, that is what they signed on, max budget deficit, max debt to GDP and so on. France with several European countries have failed these and have been dragging their feet. Did you just miss the collapse in Greece?

            I am now paying more taxes for their goverments loose workforce pension and paycheck policies fearing that if Greece collapses, banks that funded Greece collapses, so will Portual, Spain so on so forth. I don’t think I will be getting my money back from Greece which my country lended to them in form of taxation.

          2. @ yahoo:

            As there is no “reply” icon to click on in your latest post (below), I will respond here:

            I have lived in Europe for over forty years and have watched very closely the evolution of the EU and the problems currently being faced here. I have worked in the financial sector all of my adult life. There is not enough room here, but these problems did not have to occur, if not for the greedy globalization, and financialization of debt were not forced upon such countries as Greece, et al. Still there is plenty of money to underwrite retirement programs and social security if only the ruling classes would allow more even distribution of wealth.

          3. Gene,

            are you a citizen of EU?

            Here is some of the “globalization” of Greece:

            Hundreds of state-appointed committees employ staff though it is not clear what they all do. Greece has a committee to manage Lake Kopais, which dried out in the 1930s.

            One Greek newspaper estimated that committees employ more than 10,000 people and cost over 220 million euros ($292.6 million) a year.

            Tens of thousands of unmarried or divorced daughters of civil servants collect their dead parents’ pensions, weighing on a social security system that experts say will collapse in 15 years unless it is overhauled.

            About 40,000 women benefit from the allowance at an annual cost of around 550 million euros ($731.5 million Cdn.), according to economic website capital.gr.

            While the law protects civil servants from dismissal, it allows them to retire with a pension in their 40s.

            Greek pension spending is expected to rise by 12 per cent of gross domestic product by 2050, according to European Union data. That compares with an EU average of less than 3 per cent of GDP.

            In a system where bonuses can add 5 to 1,300 euros to a monthly paycheck, some civil servants are paid extra for using a computer. Some get a bonus for speaking a foreign language and others for arriving at work on time, while many foresters get a bonus for working outdoors. All Greek public and private sector workers get 14 monthly salary payments a year, a structure aimed at keeping basic monthly salaries, and the pensions that are based on them, low.

            The list goes on.

            Great paycheck/pension policy- Unfortunately the law abiding other citizen of other EU countries have to pay the budget deficits of Greece.

    2. the actual words she’s using is: ” so you are telling me that the phrase separation of church and state is in the first amendment ? ” (time marker 1.58)
      personally i think that the tea party is obama’s only way to be elected for a second term. if Obama will be judged only upon his achievements he will be a one term president.

    1. America is supulst to be for the free… not that they are doing a good job of that but still… if you combine church and state you are taking away freedom of religion and religious rule becomes law even if you done believe in that religion and its values. i for one am leaving the country if this happens because i would have to start fearing everyone around me because of what i believe. if i went to isreal i would problably be killed as well because of my believes… furthermore it will brainwash our youth who need to find a religion or believe system on their own without having one shoved down their throats

  2. technically she is correct, the concept of separation of church and state is from a letter by jefferson…using the first amendment.

    the outrage should be that she doesnt know what the first amendment says or anything about the establishment clause.

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