7 thoughts on “Gideon Levy on Gaza’s Suffering – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Answer this question as honestly as you can, Richard:

    You call for a “negotiated end.” Right, let’s say Israel removed it’s security barrier, all checkpoints and Gaza, Judea & Samaria were 100% ethnically cleansed of Jews. Any “Palestinian” can cross into Israel at will for whatever reason, the border between Israel and a “Palestine” is totally open. Would terrorism increase or decrease?

  2. Unfortunately, everything related to Gaza is now in the shadows – under-reported.
    Maybe Olmert’s declaration from today will start a change. Maybe a meeting between Abbas and Olmert will be a first step in the right direction.

  3. let’s say…Gaza, Judea & Samaria were 100% ethnically cleansed of Jews.

    “Ethnically cleansed?” Surely you’re joking! This is a perfect example of hard right hysterical overstatement in the guise of…what, I don’t know–serious debate?

    Any “Palestinian” can cross into Israel at will for whatever reason, the border between Israel and a “Palestine” is totally open.

    Preposterous. Israel’s border with Palestine is NOT going to be like the U.S. border with Canada. It’s a border between two (hopefully by then) formerly warring nations. There will be security personnel on the border for both sides plus probably international monitors.

    Can’t you come up w. any better arguments for yr extremist viewpt. than these?

  4. Maybe a meeting between Abbas and Olmert will be a first step in the right direction.

    Amen to that, brother. But first he has to schedule an actual meeting rather than stating a vague desire to have one. Second, he has to create a serious agenda for that meeting which involves discussion of substantive issues bet. the 2 sides. If he does those 2 things he’d have my support. But I don’t take things he says on faith. “Trust, but verify,” as Regan used to say. I want Olmert to verify before I’ll cut him any slack.

  5. “Ethnically cleansed?” Surely you’re joking! This is a perfect example of hard right hysterical overstatement in the guise of…what, I don’t know–serious debate?”

    Gaza wasn’t ethnically cleansed then? And there was me thinking the Jewish communities were forcibly removed against their will.

    Since all the Arab states are Judenrein, “Palestine” being the same is a given. In fact it’s one of the “Palestinians'” pre-requisites for statehood. Do you really think any Jews under “Palestinian” jurisdiction would be safe?

    “Preposterous. Israel’s border with Palestine is NOT going to be like the U.S. border with Canada. It’s a border between two (hopefully by then) formerly warring nations. There will be security personnel on the border for both sides plus probably international monitors.”

    There’s only one “nation” and one terrorist pseudo-state. Secondly, why can’t the border be open? As we’re told time and time again, terrorism will magically cease once Israel ends “The Occupation,” for arguments sake let’s pretend that the phrase “occupation” only means Judea and Samaria and not Israel-proper. And you’re saying “Palestinian” security personnel–many of which are members of Hamas/Islamic Jihad/Fatah et al–are suddenly going to start combatting terrorism and protecting Israel’s border from infiltration? And as for international monitors, yes, they’ve done a sterling job at Kerem Shalom and Rafah, if they’re not fleeing they’re watching as weapons are smuggled in by the crate load.

    And I notice you didn’t answer the man point about terrorism increasing or decreasing. As in reality you know the answer. It would increase tenfold as the “Palestinians” would be emboldened by Israel’s further capitulation, Only now the borders are increasingly indefensible and Israel is fighing a missile war on all fronts.

  6. “Maybe a meeting between Abbas and Olmert will be a first step in the right direction.”

    Yes, because meeting with a Holocaust-denying terrorist is a “step in the right direction?” Abbas’s demands are as follows:

    1) Release of all prisoners–even those serving multiple life sentences for murder.
    2) The “Right of Return” whereby Israel is flooded with millions of fundamentalist Muslims.
    3) Removal of the Security Barrier–which has prevented suicide attacks by over 90%.
    4) A Jew-free “West Bank” and East Jerusalem.

    All of which are non-starters.

  7. Gaza wasn’t ethnically cleansed then?

    Of course not. The democratically elected State of Israel (foolishly) sent those settlers to settle that land in the first place. And another democratically elected government decided that they should leave. To use such a highly charged term to describe the Gaza withdrawal certainly gives away your ideological bias.

    Do you really think any Jews under “Palestinian” jurisdiction would be safe?

    I don’t have a crystal ball so I don’t know the answer. But tell me–how well treated are Israel’s Arabs? Do you think Jews would be treated much worse than Israeli Arabs are now? In other words, I don’t think either Israel or Palestine can trumpet their human rights record when it comes to minorities in their midst.

    There’s only one “nation” and one terrorist pseudo-state

    You’re full of crap. Why do you bother coming here? Do you think I’ll let the crap demagoguery slip by here? I suggest you go try it at LGF where it’ll be welcomed w. open arms.

    We’re told time and time again, terrorism will magically cease once Israel ends “The Occupation,

    I never told you that. I’m fully prepared for the possible eventuality that some Palestinian rejectionist groups may attempt to foment violence to undermine a peace agreement just as I’m prepared that some settler extremists might do the same.

    you’re saying “Palestinian” security personnel–many of which are members of Hamas/Islamic Jihad/Fatah et al–are suddenly going to start combatting terrorism and protecting Israel’s border from infiltration?

    No, why don’t you read what I actually write instead of what you’d like me to have written so you can poke holes in it? There will be Israeli security on the Israeli side and international monitors on both sides reinforcing security on both sides of the border. If the Palestinians sat back and drank tea all day there would still be a formidable security presence on both sides.

    as for international monitors, yes, they’ve done a sterling job at Kerem Shalom and Rafah

    There are many reasons why the Kerem Shalom & Rafah crossings have been abject failures many of which are Israel’s fault. Instead, why don’t you look at other more successful international monitoring missions: Kosovo, Sinai, and the renewed UNIFIL (so far).

    As in reality you know the answer. It would increase tenfold as the “Palestinians” would be emboldened by Israel’s further capitulation…

    I’ll thank you for not putting words in my mouth. I ‘know’ no such thing. Terrorism would rapidly become a thing of the past after a peace agreement is signed. Would everything go swimmingly with no acts of violence ever again on either side against the other? I don’t know but I hope so. But peace would eventually subsume hatred and violence. I know this with every fiber of my being. And a few years after such peace agreement if you ever came across yr comments above you would realize how wrong you were.

    Holocaust-denying terrorist

    Lies don’t go unchallenged here. Either provide reliable proof of this stupid charge or shut up about it.

    Regarding Abbas’ alleged negotiating positions (which I by no means grant are accurate portrayals of his views), you have absolutely no clue how international negotiations work. Both parties come to the table with their maximal positions. Then they figure out a way to compromise and come up w. an agreement that meets as much of their needs as possible. The Palestinians may come to the table with claims that are unrealistic or unrealizable as will the Israelis. They can both say they whatever they wish as opening positions. That doesn’t faze me in the least. Neither side believes they will walk out of the room at the end of the day with every claim satisfied with which they walked into that room.

    You make a major mistake in confusing the beginning of the process with the end.

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