10 thoughts on “Gaza Invasion: ‘Folly of Follies’ Says Haaretz – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Why do you feel that you or the Editor of Ha’Aretz has a better grasp ofthe issues than the Government ??
    All concessions have been viewed as weakness. We are dealing with a different mindset.

  2. The government… must… free the detained Hamas politicians and open negotiations. The issue is a soldier who must be brought home, not changing the face of the Middle East.

    The two are related. If Israel negotiates to free its soldier, it gives Hamas incentive to do it again. Hamas has had plently of time to renounce violence against Israel. How long should Israel wait? Until more soldiers are captured? Until they start blowing up buses and shopping malls again? Israel does not have an obligation to respect the integrity of a government that won’t acknowledge its existence.

  3. Actually, Israel HAS negotiated with kidnappers, inlcuding a massive prisoner exchange with Hezbollah in 2004. In fact, the Israeli Supreme Court explictly legalized kidnapping as a bargaining tactic in South Lebanon. Just the day before the kidnapping of Shalit, the IDF snuck into the Gaza Strip to kidnap two Palestinians it claims are terrorists. So it’s not as if the renegage Hamas cell did anything new.

    I would say that the best way to ensure Hamas resumes violence and terrorism is for Israel to continue on its current path.

  4. Why do you feel that you or the Editor of Ha’Aretz has a better grasp ofthe issues than the Government ??

    Hmmm. I would think the answer to that question should be self-evident. But just to spell it out for you: the IDF & the government have proven themselves over many decades to be brutal, incompetent & ineffectual in realizing their stated & legitimate goal of ensuring security for the Israeli people. In addition, the current government has shown itself to be rather weak & lacking in vision or leadership in carrying out the same task. I’m in favor of trusting governments which show themselves transparent, competent & effective, none of which qualities this government has displayed.

    Besides, the purpose of the opposition press is to criticize when a government is going wrong (& this one clearly is) & point out better policy alternatives. We’re all just doing our jobs, that’s all.

    All concessions have been viewed as weakness.

    As Peter H. told you, Israel has negotiated with “terrorists” several times to gain the release of both Israeli soldiers & civilians. Gee, I’d have thought you’d know better the history of a nation you’re so eager to advise as to what its policies should be.

    We are dealing with a different mindset.

    And we have a racist to boot. You know aboslutely nothing about Arabs or Islam other than the stupid generalizations rattling around in yr brain.

    Israel does not have an obligation to respect the integrity of a government that won’t acknowledge its existence.

    David: I’m rather disappointed in the narrow-mindedness of yr response. First, as I said here even the Israelis acknowledge that the political arm of Hamas had nothing to do w. the kidnapping. It’s the military arm that’s to blame and which should be punished if anyone is. Second, Hamas had largely observed a ceasefire against Israel for the past 16 months until the last month of errant IDF attacks killed nearly 20 Palestinian civilians & the IDF murdered the head of the Popular Resisatnce Committees (which prob. spurred the attack on the Israeli outpost). Third, since when does one nation get the right to destroy another because the latter’s government refuses to recognize the former? That’s ridiculous.

  5. And we have a racist to boot.

    i fail to see the racism in Jeffrey’s three-sentence comment. The sentence you jump on – “We are dealing with a different mindset” – plainly isn’t racist. Whether you agree with it is besides the point. When you throw “racism” around like that, you belittle it. You ought to give the benefit of the doubt, especially for a comment as non-aggressive as Jeffrey’s. Has he commented here before that indicated his animosity towards Arabs and Muslims?

    Hamas had largely observed a ceasefire against Israel for the past 16 months

    I refuse to believe that Hamas had nothing to do with the qassam rockets. At the very least, they didn’t take measures to prevent them. If a rogue Israeli group was launching rockets into Gaza on a regular basis, would you not blame the government for its failure to take action? Moreover, when other terrorist groups did attack Israeli civilians, Hamas openly gave their blessing. Again, if a group of kach-niks blew up an Arab market and Olmert responded with “well, they have a right to defend themselves against Palestinian terror”, would that not be tacit support??

    since when does one nation get the right to destroy another because the latter’s government refuses to recognize the former?

    I didn’t say that Israel has the right to destroy another government. Hamas still refuses to recognize Israel as a legitimate government, so why should Israel recognize Hamas as legitimate? Hamas continues to treat Israel as an enemy, not as a partner for peace. Why should Israel treat Hamas any differently?

  6. David:
    The Israeli government, who have failed BIG time to take any action, already protects the unlawful settlers. You should know that!

    And what about Likud?
    Do they recognize a Palestinian state? Please tell me…

    And its telling to see that you haven’t put a single creative idea on the table what to do, instead of the, oh so boring, whining about Israels “right” to defend itself & and “we can’t negotiate”.

    Especially when you are complaining about Richard “throwing “racism” around like that”!

  7. David: I’m surprised that someone with as much intelligence as you clearly have doesn’t understand the subtext conveyed by the statement that Arabs “have a different mindset.” Here are a few of the unspoken comments that almost always accompany such statements (whether they are stated explicitly or not):

    1. You can’t negotiate with an Arab because ‘they’ only understand force
    2. Arabs lie, cheat, steal, etc. for their own purposes

    Marlowe’s dumbass statement above fits clearly in number 1 above. I’m goddamn sick and tired of reading such ignorant comments from people who know nothing about Arabs or Muslims. This mindset is based on hatred & extreme prejudice.

    I refuse to believe that Hamas had nothing to do with the qassam rockets.

    You can believe whatever you like, but such a belief would be erroneous. Every article I’ve read for months in the Israeli press acknowledges that Hamas largely maintained the ceasefire (until last week). I did read that there may’ve been a very few instances in which splinter Hamas cells engaged in Qassam attacks. But the vast majority of attacks were perpetrated by Islamic Jihad & the PRC.

    At the very least, they didn’t take measures to prevent them. If a rogue Israeli group was launching rockets into Gaza on a regular basis, would you not blame the government for its failure to take action?

    Interesting that you blame Hamas for not stopping attacks which it didn’t initiate; yet you don’t blame Abbas for the same reasons. Why single out Hamas for blame? Second, has Israel allowed ANY Palestinian government to function in the ways that normal governments do? Has Israel attempted in any way, shape, or form to encourage such governments to stop the rocket attacks? Has it opened checkpoints to allow food shipments & other essential items into Gaza? Has it transferred any of the $50M/mo. it essentially steals fr. the Palestinians in withheld excise taxes so that the Palestinians can run their government? Has it agreed to consider releasing Marwan Barghouti or any Palestinian prisoner as a sign of good faith? When has Israel shown Hamas or any Palestinian government good faith?

    Do I wish that Abbas & Hamas would take the bull by the horns & stop terror attacks?? Sure. But I’m not going to do what you’ve done which is take the issue completely out of the context in which it’s embedded. You get yr enemy to do something you want it to when you agree to do something it wants you to do. I’ve seen nothing whatsoever fr. Israel along those lines.

    Also, you compare Israel’s authority to stop terror to Hamas’. Interesting that you neglect to mention the many terror attacks (both inside & outside the Green Line) by Israeli Jews against Israeli Arabs & Palestinians. While the very most heinous of them may end in some form of punishment for the Jewish perpetrators, the thousands of lesser attacks are almost never punished. What message do you think that sends to Palestinians? That they should trust the rule of law within Israeli society?? I’d say that Palestinians view Israeli society, esp. in the Territories, as equally out of control as Palestinian society is vis a vis Qassam attacks.

    Hamas still refuses to recognize Israel as a legitimate government, so why should Israel recognize Hamas as legitimate? Hamas continues to treat Israel as an enemy, not as a partner for peace. Why should Israel treat Hamas any differently?

    Come on, David. You’re trying to argue the chicken came before the egg. Neither one of these issues developed independently of the other. Hamas doesn’t recognize Israel. Israel doesn’t recognize Hamas. It’s all ridiculous posturing on both sides. There will come a time (& may it come soon & in our days) that both will recognize ea. other. It will start out w. tacit recognition or perhaps secret negotiations. But it will happen because it has to happen. Just as Nature hates vacuums, human society abhors artificial barriers between peoples. The war will end. But let’s not split hairs to try to determine whose fault it is that it hasn’t done so yet.

  8. I hope the IDF will use the tragic kidnappings and bombings as an opportunity to clean house in Gaza and Lebanon. Half way measures will only cause more misery for everyone in the long run.

  9. “Clean house,” a lovely euphemism for shelling, bombing, strafing & general mayhem. And you think that Israel hasn’t been trying (& failing) to clean house even before this tragic mishap of an invasion?? Your approach is a perfect example of what got Israel into the jam it’s in now.

  10. Came across your blog looking for more background on the situation in gaza, given that it is now two weeks after you wrote this I am very disturbed by how prophetic it was.

    One thing I dont understand is how anyone thinks that this will ‘clean house’ in Gaza or ‘crush’ or ‘annihilate’ Hamas, Hezbollah etc. There is an entire generation of Palestinian youth who have known nothing but violence and fear. Even if the quest to get rid of Hamas is successful, the deep bedrock of sentiment that *made* Hamas, allowed it to become a stable organization, and then *elected* them, is hardly going to vanish in a puff of rubble.

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