215 thoughts on “The Zionization of Disaster Relief – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. This is quite a bad translation. Whole sentences are missing. I’ll deal with this tomorrow, I have productive activity ahead of me.

    1. When you can translate Hebrew as well as Sol Salbe then you can talk. Till then shutup.

      I have productive activity ahead of me.

      That’s it. You’re done. I’ve had about as much snark as I can take. If you ever mature enough to actually write comments w/o snark & all the other infantilisms you introduce into yours you may let me know & I can reinstate you. Till then you’re toast.

      1. “Till then shutup”

        Classy as ever Richard.

        “If you ever mature enough to actually write comments w/o snark & all the other infantilisms you introduce into yours you may let me know”

        That’s rich coming from you!

          1. You’ve never been consistent with your own comment rules. You let anti “Zionists” breach them by brazen rudeness to those who say things in defence of the Jewish state and then reinterpret them so as to falsely accuse defenders of the Jewish state of breaching those same rules. And of course you don’t stick to the rules yourself as you are gratuitously rude when confronted by arguments for which you have no answer.

            I did in fact answer the substance of this misleading posting of yours elsewhere in the thread, asking about the surprisingly flexible scope, but you had no answer, so you ignored it. In any case I have no replied to your bogus arguments on my own website, here:

            http://davidkesslerauthor.com/?p=1002

            and here:

            http://davidkesslerauthor.com/?p=1026

          2. Stop spammin’ yr website. It’s rude and no one cares. But I’m really, really flattered that I tick you off so much that you wasted as much time as you did complaining about me.

            I don’t answer to complaints about my editorial decisions. You don’t like ’em don’t bother coming. If you have anything of substance to say about the issues, do so. Otherwise, quit kvetching.

  2. To be fair: It’s not just Israel who does this. It’s the way governments typically act. Have your own planes go 5,000 miles and deliver high-tech equipment made in your own country – even though you could also have chartered airplanes in a place 500 miles away and loaded it with locally procured basic necessities.

    Even private aid organizations do this to an extent. They do have a better reason however – they need to stir up interest in their work in order to raise funds.

    1. I read that article. It’s quite alarming. Israel has been waging a war against NGO’s for quite a while now, and especially in the aftermath of Operation Cast Lead, for obvious reasons.

      I find it very disturbing that the US seems to be settling in for the long haul in Haiti, and have taken it upon themselves to run the show. There is not much humanitarianism in military entrenchment.

  3. meanwhile, back at the ranch:

    http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/press/release.cfm?id=4176

    “Doctors Without Borders Plane with Lifesaving Medical Supplies Diverted Again from Landing in Haiti

    Patients in Dire Need of Emergency Care Dying from Delays in Arrival of Medical Supplies

    Port-au-Prince, January 19, 2010 – A Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) cargo plane carrying 12 tons of medical equipment, including drugs, surgical supplies and two dialysis machines, was turned away three times from Port-au-Prince airport since Sunday night despite repeated assurances of its ability to land there. This 12-ton cargo was part of the contents of an earlier plane carrying a total of 40 tons of supplies that was blocked from landing on Sunday morning. Since January 14, MSF has had five planes diverted from the original destination of Port-au-Prince to the Dominican Republic. These planes carried a total of 85 tons of medical and relief supplies. “

    1. And who has taken over the airport – iow, who, precisely, keeps turning their planes away? Why, the American military, of course!

      Oh – and by the way MSF is one of the NGO’s now barred by that bastion of humanitarianism, that “little country with a big heart” from working in the OPT’s.

      I don’t know what feeling predominates for me today, outrage, or despair.

  4. It’s difficult to know what to make of this essay. Of all the countries providing aid to Haiti, are any of them–other than Israel–being criticized for not bringing portable toilets? (If you wish to donate portable toilets, click here:
    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/need-for-portable-toilets-in-haiti) Maybe someone should tell the people whose lives have been saved by Israelis that they don’t need a field hospital with doctors, nurses, and equiptment. They would have been better off with toilets. The entire essay is so ugly that, yes, it does make me feel angry, just not for the reasons the writer believes. Take this comment: “To be truly effective a field hospital needs to remain for two or three months, but that’s a condition that Israel cannot meet.” Interestingly, Israeli teams plan to stay on for at least one more month. They are not leaving “after a fortnight.” The American Jewish World Service and Doctors Without Borders are fine charities, and if people prefer to donate to them, they should. But this is no reason to bash Israel or the USA, for that matter.

    1. are any of them–other than Israel–being criticized for not bringing portable toilets?

      IN fact, groups like Drs. W/o Borders are attempting to do that very thing but have been thrice refused permission to land their medical supplies. The criticism is directed against the US military controlling air traffic into Haiti. Israel somehow managed to circumvent this bottleneck thanks to its excellent relations w. certain elements of the US military, Defense Dept, etc.

      Maybe someone should tell the people whose lives have been saved by Israelis

      Do you think the major reason for Israel to be in Haiti should be to deliver Haitian babies & have them named “Israel??” The fact that lives are being saved by Israeli personnel seems almost incidental to the real motive for being there.

      Interestingly, Israeli teams plan to stay on for at least one more month. They are not leaving “after a fortnight.”

      What I do enjoy here is Israel’s apologists having no professional expertise in whatever they’re commenting on substituting their acute judgement for that of true professional experts like this Israeli doctor who has spent much of his career actually serving in disaster zones on Israel’s behalf. So Jania, yr judgment is better than his? He, having served, has no right to criticize? Please. You’re pathetic.

      Israel will be in Haiti for 5 wks total IF what you have claimed is true. The doctor says Israel needs to be there 2 to 3 times as long to be truly effective. But they’re not because they don’t really care particularly much about the welfare of Haitians. They care about the PR value of the mission & by five wks that will be pretty much exhausted. That’s why they’re leaving. He knows it. We know it. The only one who doesn’t know it is you & Israel’s other disaster sycophants.

      this is no reason to bash Israel

      We’ll let readers be the judge of whether there is sufficient reason to criticize Israel. You’ve got one vote.

    2. Doctors Without Borders is attempting to bring portable toilets to Haiti? Can you tell me where I can find that information? Also, what other organizations and countries are bringing toilets to Haiti? I want to know so I can praise them. If it’s true that toilets are critical in rescue operations–and I’m not saying they aren’t–perhaps there should be an organization called Toilets Without Borders. I would be happy to write a check if there is an organization that can provide the portable toilets.

      Israeli rescue workers have been providing aid to countries suffering disasters for many decades. They did not rely on US permission to enter those countries.

      My life was saved by several ER doctors very recently. I didn’t care about their motives and couldn’t tell you what their motives were. To me, my life isn’t incidental regardless of the doctors’ motives. I’m sure the Haitians who were saved by Israeli doctors don’t think their lives are incidental. Of the three babies who were delivered by Israeli doctors, only one was given the name Israel. I doubt that the doctors cared that the other two were not. But I ask you, who doesn’t want to be seen in a good light? Are you sure you aren’t judging Israeli doctors by the motives you would have in the same situation?

      I’m interested to know about your professional expertise concerning your comments. Prof. Donchin has done a lot of good work, most recently with Hadassah, and he has written excellent articles praising Israel. He’s not in Haiti right now, though, and he hadn’t participated in Israel’s more recent rescue missions. His very recent criticisms come from his leftist views. When he likes the government, he’s full of praise. We Americans can be like that too. Whether we like what the U.S. does depends on whether a Democrat or Republican is president. It’s human nature, and everyone has an agenda. I question the professor when he claims that it’s better to send in a small team to evaluate the situation and only then send a larger team. By then, the lives that could have been saved are gone.

      By the way, many doctors have been critical of Prof. Donchin’s comments, and they have the expertise to to correct him, even if I don’t. Their judgments may be better than his. Personally, I find his comments about portable toilets ridiculous. Obviously, that’s not his area of expertise, and he should stick to anesthesiology.

      Yes, it’s important that aid workers stay on, but you don’t know what Israel plans to do later on. Israelis are involved all over the world helping developing countries, and they stay on for years or as long as is necessary. They get little or no notice for it, so PR can’t be their only motive. However, since you believe, apparently, that if Israeli rescue teams don’t stay beyong five weeks, they shouldn’t stay at all, perhaps you can tell me how long other countries plan to stay and what they intend to do. Will you criticize all who leave for not staying longer, or is Israel (along with the US) the only target of your anger?

      1. “Israeli rescue workers have been providing aid to countries suffering disasters for many decades.,/I>”

        Israel has caused far, far more suffering and far, far more disaster that it has provided aid for. and you don’t seem to see what is wrong with bombing, murdering, torturing, starving, and refusing medical supplies and equipment to millions of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians over the course of decades with one hand while grandiosely delivering aid to Haitians with the other? You are not the slightest bit put off by refusing to allow Palestinian women in labour through checkpoints, forcing them to give birth at checkpoints, or worse yet denying them critical access to medical care until they and/or their babies die, and making an international PR stunt out of delivering a Haitian baby, and then self-aggrandizingly talking the mother into naming it Israel?

        What is wrong with your mind?

        1. Shirin, unfortunately, the truth is less interesting. Israel allows tons of food and medicine to the Palestinians in Gaza on a daily basis (while Egypt allows little, but that’s not your concern). If there are any starving Palestinians, which I doubt, don’t you realize that Hamas steals supplies and sells them to the highest bidder? If you need documentation, just ask.

          Yes, on occasion Israel denies entry to Palestinians, even a few pregnant women. However, Israel allows scores of thousands of Palestinians across its border and into its hospitals every year. You mention the few who are denied and not the many who are treated. If you’ve ever been to an Israeli hospital, then you know what I am talking about. When there are a few who are denied entry, it’s for a reason. Sadly, some pregnant Palestinian women have strapped bombs around their waists to blow up themselves along with their unborn babies. It is those women who should be blamed for jeopardizing the lives of many others who want only to have treatment in Israeli hospitals.

          You talk about Israel causing disasters. Are you unaware that since the modern state of Israel was born almost 62 years ago, more than 11,000,000 Muslims have been killed in wars between Muslim countries and in civil wars inside Muslim countries? Can you even watch the news for a week without hearing about Muslims blowing up other Muslims somewhere?

          Look, I know various Arab and Muslim groups battle each other, try to rid the Middle East of Christians, and would commit genocide against the Jews if given half a chance. Wars are horrible. All wars are horrible. But in terms of deaths by war in the Middle East, the Israeli-Arab wars should merit a footnote in a history book.

          So I would like to ask you about your mind and why you are so obsessively focused on one small country. Are you oblivious to all the suffering going on all over the Middle East?

          1. “Sadly, some pregnant Palestinian women have strapped bombs around their waists to blow up themselves along with their unborn babies.”
            These horrible Palestinians! They are hardly human!
            (Please provide some documentation.)

          2. This is to Elizabeth. For some reason, there was no reply button.

            “Please provide some documentation.”

            Here is one article:

            June 13 (Reuters) – A pregnant Palestinian mother of eight and her niece planned a double suicide bombing in Israel before they were captured and detained last month.

            Fatima Zak and Ruda Habib were recruited by militant group Islamic Jihad and applied to enter Israel for medical treatment.

            Zak, 39, and Habib, 30, said they were to have travelled to the West Bank, received explosives from local militants, and then re-entered Israel for the attack.

            By the way, both women have been released and are free to attempt blowing themselves up again. The sad thing is that they ARE human. Why would you say otherwise?

          3. June 13, 2007!! Thanks for providing such timely evidence. Is this single three year old supposed act of planned terror the reason why Israel denies medical supplies to Gaza & prevents almost all seriously ill patients from leaving Gaza for treatment?

          4. Sorry, but it doesn’t exactly sound as if she was in labour in front of a checkpoint, does it? How does this story justify forcing Palestinian women to give birth in taxi’s and ambulances denying them access to hospitals?

          5. You incredible, outrageous hasbarist. My temper is thinning fast.

            You come here with the worst hasbara drivel I have seen in ages, and you expect us to believe the crap you are dumping on this thread?

            I am personally involved with trying to help the people of Palestine, and those people include the population of Gaza. I can tell you for a certainty that the misery there is almost beyond human comprehension, that there is starvation. There is plenty of documentation for this, if you won’t take my word for it. Here is one link that shows that malnutrition was occurring even before the blockade, due to the horrendous poverty:
            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1172086/

            And an article from the time just prior to Operation Cast Lead: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/chronic-malnutrition-in-gaza-blamed-on-israel-1019521.html

            I picked up both of these links from the first page of my Google search. The information is so readily available that I am amazed that you would deliberately make such an inaccurate statement, but I’m just plain outraged that you would do so without the slightest bit of compassion.

            And Shirin is right again, of course. How horrible that Israel allows Palestinian mothers and babies to die at checkpoints, yet it boasts of delivering Haitian babies and having them named “Israel.”

          6. Oh, by the way, I looked it up and the plan you refer to dates back to 2007 (you must have deleted the year). You know very well that barring Palestinian mothers access from hospitals has been going on for a long time, both before and after 2007. (By 2005, 55 women had already been forced to give birth at checkpoints.) So how can you claim this cruel practice was caused by this one plan which never materialized?

            The plan was never carried out, and yet you write: “Sadly, some pregnant Palestinian women (plural) have (past tense) strapped bombs around their waists to blow up themselves along with their unborn babies.”

            You are lying twice here. First: that there have been multiple cases. Secondly: that there actually have been incidents where pregnant women had bombs strapped around their waists, when there haven’t.

          7. Elizabeth,

            She tried to go through a checkpoint. Whether or not she claimed to be in labor, I don’t know, but she claimed she was going to a hospital in Israel. I didn’t delete the year; it wasn’t included in the brief Reuters article I found, though I’m sure you can find many articles about that incident as well as others. Palestinian Arab women had been blowing themselves up since the beginning of 2002. Prior to that, male Palestinian Arab terrorists sometimes disguised themselves as women.

            This happens in other countries as well, or didn’t you know. For example, on April 25, 2006, at least eight people in Sri Lanka were killed when a female suicide bomber disguised as a pregnant woman blew herself up in front of the military hospital. Suicide bombers in numerous countries have desguised themselves as veiled women, police officers, tourists, soldiers, etc. They’re the ones who are cruel, not the people who try to protect everyone from them.

            None of the suicide bombers who entered Israel from the territories dressed themselves up to look like suicide bombers. They all disguised themselves as innocents and often as injured patients in need of a hospital. Some of them were children. Some tried to enter Israel in ambulances. One suicide bomber who killed herself and injured others in 2002 was a nurse with the Palestinian Red Crescent.

            I would like to remind you that during the three decades prior to the suicide bombings, hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs traveled to and from Gaza and the West Bank through Israel on a daily basis. Israel also had what it called an open bridges policy allowing people to travel back and forth between the territories and Jordan. The bridge was closed only on holidays. When Jordan was in charge of the territories, no one was allowed to travel into Jordan through the Allenby Bridge, though Israel allowed people to travel from Jordan into Israel.

            Terrorism changed things. It changed the way you and I are allowed to travel. Do you remember when you were allowed to see people off at the gate and wait to pick them up at the gate? No longer. It took only one attempted shoe bombing for the airlines to make everyone take off their shoes. It took only one planned liquid bombing for the airlines to prevent all travelers from carrying large quantities of liquid with them on the plane. Do you blame the terrorists, or do you blame the airlines?

            If you blame the terrorists for the security measures at airports, then blame the terrorists for the security measures used by Israel. People must go through many checkpoints inside Israel too. It’s not that anyone loves the idea.

            Back to what you refer to as “the plan.” You say that “the plan was never carried out.” That’s because the two women were caught. When I said they strapped bombs around their waists to blow themselves up, that’s exactly what they did. But they got caught before they were able to kill. I wonder if you claim that the “shoe bomber” never carried out his plan. He intended to, but he failed. The intention is what counts.

            Sorry, Elizabeth, but who is lying?

          8. Boy, you write a lot! The whole Sri Lanka thing and all the rest of the verbal diarrhea is beside the point of course, so let us get at the few remarks that have to do with the point we are dealing with:
            “She tried to go through a checkpoint. Whether or not she claimed to be in labor, I don’t know”
            Gimme a break: You intentionally painted a picture of Palestinian women in their last term, strapping themselves with bombs, waiting for labor pains in order to get through checkpoints and blow themselves up, when such incidents never took place. In this way you tried to portray Palestinians as ruthless animals which deserve nothing better than to be treated in inhumane ways. You make me sick.

            “I’m sure you can find many articles about that incident as well as others.”
            There you go again: Give me the other incidents please.

          9. Elisabeth, for the last time, I hope: She was an obviously pregnant woman using her pregnancy as the reason she was attempting to enter Israel and go to a hospital. She had a bomb strapped around her waist, which she intended to set off, killing herself, her unborn baby, and who knows how many other innocent people. If that doesn’t make you sick, I can’t help you.

          10. She had a bomb strapped around her waist

            You didn’t even read the piece you quoted. She did not have a bomb strapped around her waist. She was PLANNING to commit a terrorist act. Planning. She hadn’t gotten to the advanced stage of actually getting the bomb let alone strapping it to her waist. Could you at least do us the favor of reading the propaganda you yrself bring to this debate?

            If that doesn’t make you sick

            Other things make me sick, or just plain sad, like you for one, who lies, distorts for some unexplained reason acting as Israel’s shill.

          11. Israel allows tons of food and medicine to the Palestinians in Gaza on a daily basis

            Utter hasbarist nonsense. Over half of Gaza subsists on humanitarian aid. Unemployment is 80%. Israel violates international law in placing an entire people under siege for no reason other than wishing to punish Hamas. Israel has no right to stop ANYTHING fr. entering Gaza. So PLEASE DON’T brag about Israel’s humanitarian good nature in dealing with Hamas. Israel’s gov’t should face international justice for this illegal act.

            If there are any starving Palestinians, which I doubt

            And you make this judgement on what basis? You’ve been there? You’ve talked to anyone living there? You’ve read UN statistics which document the privation? No, then on what basis do you make such an ignorant judgment? If you want to be a credible hasbarist (contradiction in terms?) you’ve got to at least make a semblance of reasonableness.

            Israel allows scores of thousands of Palestinians across its border and into its hospitals every year

            Not true once more. Israel allows almost no Palestinians across its border. Period. There are a very few lucky ones who either have agree to cooperate w. the Shin Bet or somehow manage to get proper permissions & documents & can cross for extraordinary purposes. But this number is in the scores, rather than thousands. Again, on what basis of evidence do you make such a transparently shoddy claim??

            When there are a few who are denied entry, it’s for a reason.

            A FEW?? Are you kidding. Gazans mobilized for a peaceful march once to protest their incarceration & Israel threatened to mow them down. I have a proposition for you: find a reputable source which provides the actual number of Palestinians who’ve been admitted to Israel in the past yr. Till then, go home & bone up on yr hasbara.

            Are you unaware that since the modern state of Israel was born almost 62 years ago, more than 11,000,000 Muslims have been killed in wars between Muslim countries and in civil wars inside Muslim countries?

            First of all, I’d like to know where you found that little nugget of Islamophobia. Second, how does deaths caused by Muslims in fighting ea. other having anything to do with the 700,000 Palestinian Israeli expelled during the Nakba, or the tens of thousands of Arab civilians Israel has killed since 1948? Does the fact that a Muslim has died somewhere in the world in an unjust way somehow liberate Israel fr. guilt for its own sins?

            Can you even watch the news for a week without hearing about Muslims blowing up other Muslims somewhere?

            This is racist period & violates my comment rules. Either you can read them & respect them or you’ll lose yr comment privileges. I won’t even debate this noxiousness.

          12. I won’t bother debating you, either, since you have entirely different standards for those who agree with you. In fact, most of the comments here, though the names are different, sound like they come from the same voice–yours.

            Every time someone says something that punches a hole in your balloon, you kick them off this ridiculous excuse for a blog.

            Bye bye, Richard. This has become way too boring and predictable. I’m banning myself because I have better things to do than to bother with such nonsense.

          13. most of the comments here, though the names are different, sound like they come from the same voice–yours.

            Yup. It’s true. I’ve been waiting for someone brilliant like you to come along & unmask my multiple sock puppetry. 25,000 comments & I’ve written every one in addition to 3,300 posts. I do this 28 hrs in the day to keep up to speed. Did you know that?

            I’m banning myself

            Now that’s a first. Maybe she’s banning herself because she realized her efforts were making such a pathetic impression??

          14. You’re either an idiot, or a liar, or both. The Palestinian women in labour who have been denied passage through checkpoints were not attemting to enter israel, they were merely attempting to travel from their home towns or villages to a maternity hospital in a nearby Palestinian town or city. In some cases the contempt with which they were treated, and the fact that it was completely unnecessary to deny them passage has been documented on film.

            You and your ilk are odious, insufferable liars. I don’t know how you sleep at night, or look at yourselves in the mirror in the morning.

      2. Why are we fixating on portable toilets? Do they have some talismanic saving powers? DWB has brought into Haiti in the past all the supplies that are needed & I’m sure that has included portable toilets. It brought in a plane load of supplies last Sunday & I’m sure there were portable toilets on it though if you really need to know this you should query them at the DWB site. Most recently, the entire field hospital has been denied landing rights three times (while Israel’s was up & running days ago).

        If it’s true that toilets are critical in rescue operations

        IF?? First, this is an Israeli medical doctor specializing in emergency medicine who is telling you Haiti needs santitation facilities far more than it needs a field hospital. And you don’t believe him. Would it take an outbreak of cholera or dysentery for you to believe portable toilets are terribly useful in a natural disaster? Can you come back & let us know when you’ve written yr check to DWB?

        My life was saved by several ER doctors very recently. I didn’t care about their motives

        I’m glad doctors saved yr life but if they’d saved yr life in Haiti they would’ve asked you to smile & hold an Israeli flag for the press opportunity. And you gladly would’ve done so apparently. But the diff. bet. this & what actually happened to you is that the doctors who saved you were doing their job & not for a nation’s greater glory. They were observing their Hippocratic Oath and doing medicine for its own sake as it should be done. With Israel that is alas not the case.

        I doubt that the doctors cared that the other two were not.

        But the entire Israeli PR delegation accompanying the Haiti operation would’ve cared deeply. But not so much after they milked that first baby moment for the cameras & world media.

        who doesn’t want to be seen in a good light?

        The problem for Israel is that it is seen in a terrible light because of the crimes it has committed in Gaza, Lebanon & countless other instances. That is why it needs to be seen in a good light in Haiti in a situation where little is on the line for Israel. Let’s use this benchmark as a judge: if the 7.0 earthquake happened in Gaza would Israel offer the same field hospital? Of course not, because they’d have to interact in some way w. Hamas which they refuse to do. So you can see how far Israeli humanitarianism extends. As I wrote, when you’re 5,000 miles away Israel can afford to be very nice to you. When you’re Arab and right next door, not so much.

        I’m interested to know about your professional expertise

        No, I’m an emergency medicine specialist if that’s what you’re asking. But that’s why I quoted Dr. Donchin.

        he has written excellent articles praising Israel.

        Would they be “excellent” because they praised Israel? Or because of their substance? I’m confused. But I sure do see your hasbarist flying colors here.

        His very recent criticisms come from his leftist views

        I see. Because Dr. Donchin has offered professional critique of Israel’s medical response he has “leftist” views. YOu know, maybe if you & whoever sent you here fr. the MFA or wherever would’ve appreciated the good doctor’s medical skills instead of fixating on his alleged political bias, then he would be in Haiti right now saving lives. But for you & those of yr ilk he’s treif because he allegedly allows his politics to infect his professional judgement. Well, that’s a load of hooey & if you don’t know I’m gonna tell you.

        Whether we like what the U.S. does depends on whether a Democrat or Republican is president.

        That’s bunk. Maybe it’s true for you, but not for me or most Americans. In the few instances where George Bush actually did something that wasn’t toxic to American values I actually praised him or his administration for them. Other Americans do the same. But apparently you must be an ideological partisan because you don’t have the ability to reach out to the other side.

        I question the professor when he claims that it’s better to send in a small team to evaluate the situation and only then send a larger team

        Yr life was saved by an ER team & all of a sudden you’re an expert on emergency relief medicine. Do you realize how lame you come off?? My graduate speciality was Hebrew literature. But I never felt that gave me license to write a book about nuclear engineering. But you do.

        many doctors have been critical of Prof. Donchin’s comments

        No doubt. ANd many of them enlisted by the MFA or IDF again no doubt. Israel is very good at firing salvos back at its alleged enemies (even when they’re fellow Israelis). But they’re not so good at resolving the underlying evils that cause their worst problems in the first place.

        Personally, I find his comments about portable toilets ridiculous. Obviously, that’s not his area of expertise

        He is a medical doctor & you’re not. He knows more about disaster relief medicine (including the critical importance of hygiene in a natural disaster) in his little pinkie than you do in yr entire body. Why don’t you buzz off? You’re starting to tire me & you’re becoming offensive. Though you prob. mean well, at least as far as yr hasbara efforts go.

        Israelis are involved all over the world helping developing countries, and they stay on for years or as long as is necessary.

        That’s simply not true, dear. Prove it. They may be in developing countries if there’s some IDF or commercial angle. Otherwise not. But why don’t you run back to the MFA for some info & see if you can rebut me.

        since you believe, apparently, that if Israeli rescue teams don’t stay beyong five weeks, they shouldn’t stay at all,

        I just wrote (you apprently can’t read) that it’s not the relief effort to which I object, it’s the ulterior motives of the effort. The exploitativeness (media coterie, PR teams, video uplinks,etc.) is offensive, not the saving lives.

        is Israel (along with the US) the only target of your anger?

        Why don’t you point out specific, cogent reasons I should criticize other countries & I’ll do so if I feel it’s warranted. A deal?

        1. No fixation on toilets, but you said that you knew that Doctors Without Borders was attempting to bring toilets into Haiti. Personally, I think that organization does a good job. But that’s not the issue. And yes, I have written checks to them just as I have to other organizations that do good. Not that I have much money, but I do what I can.

          I’m also not arguing that toilets aren’t needed, but I think it’s silly to put down Israel for not being the country that’s bringing the toilets. Maybe the Saudis can part with some of their oil money and make a donation to promote better hygiene in Haiti.

          I wish I could be a mind reader like you so I would always know the motives of others. For example, you said elsewhere that Obama’s motives are truly humanitarian. You may be right, but how do you know that his motives are so pure and not the least bit political? Isn’t it possible that he remembers Bush during Katrina and doesn’t want to make the same mistakes? Please don’t tell me that Obama doesn’t look out for himself in everything he does. Oh, I would never accuse him of doing something exclusively for the purpose of making his own country look good. That’s clearly not on his agenda. Making himself look good is an important part of his agenda. I would imagine that’s true for most politicians.

          Professor Donchin is one doctor (an anesthesiologist, actually) at one hospital. His views are his own and carry no more weight than the views of all the other doctors. I happen to know (because I know about the hospital where he works) that he has a political agenda. That’s fine, but it needs to be understood. Most doctors would disagree with him when he says that a small team of observers should be sent first to a disaster area. That’s like having a team of observers come to the house of a heart attack victim before sending for the ambulance. Most doctors would say that more lives are saved immediately after a disaster rather than waiting and analyzing before sending the rescue crews. Then more people and equipment can be sent afterwards. This is only logical. If Labor instead of Likud were in office right now, you may not be hearing these criticisms from the professor.

          You talk about Israel’s “war crimes” in Gaza and Lebanon, but in which wars haven’t there been civilian deaths? Wars are more difficult to fight now because terrorist regimes have no qualms about hiding behind civilians and even dressing their own “soldiers” are civilians. We could spend days talking about the distruction Europeans have done in wars against each other.

          I love your benchmark. If an earthquake happened in Gaza, would Israel offer the same field hospital? I’m absolutely sure of it. A year ago this month, Israel opened a field hospital to treat residents of Gaza wounded in fighting between the IDF and various terrorist groups. Hamas tried to prevent Palestinians from being treated at the field hospital, but some Palestinians did make it to the hospital. Israel sent the more serious patients on to Israeli hospitals. Are you aware that during both wars in Lebanon, Israel brought hundreds of patients into Israeli hospitals? Israel also took in Lebanese patients during Lebanon’s civil war and takes in patients from many Arab countries. Are you aware that Israeli emergency rooms often treat wounded terrorists in beds next to their victims? Also, Israel coordinates a Jordanian field hospital in Gaza.

          Did you know that back in the early 1980s, Israel rebuilt and modernized the Shifa hospital in Gaza and trained the doctors and nurses there? So, there’s no doubt in my mind that Israel would help the people of Gaza if there was an earthquake or other disaster. I also don’t doubt that Hamas would do everything possible to see that the Palsestinians suffered and died rather than receive Israeli aid. After all, many Hamas leaders proudly announce how much they love death.

          Prof. Donchin has a right to offer his professional critique of Israel’s medical responses, but his criticisms are balanced by the hundreds of lives Israel has saved in Haiti. I guess if Israel listened to the good professor, those lives would have been lost. But aren’t those lives of little consequence when compared with the opportunity to criticize Israel’s medical teams?

          I never claimed to be an expert in medical emergency, but then neither are you. Everyone can listen to the words of one doctor vs. many and make their own judgments, I suppose. Personally, I’ll look for a second opinion. So the professor is a medical doctor. There are hundreds of thousands of medical doctors. Many countries sent medical doctors to Haiti. How does the professor know more than all of them? Is he infallible? Couldn’t he be wrong?

          Who said that hygiene is not improtant in a natural disaster? Have you read anywhere that any of the countries involved in saving lives in Haiti are not paying attention to hygiene? Has that been an issue at Israel’s field hospital?

          Why don’t I buzz off? Maybe I will. I’ve already noticed how you can’t stand to have others disagree with you. So you’ll probably ban me as well, and I wouldn’t mind. You clearly want to hold a discussion only with those who think as you do. When they disagree, they are gone.

          I could provide you with detailed info about the work that Israel does in developing countries–all without anything in return. But you don’t really want to see that, do you?

          I used to joke that if Israel found a cure for cancer, the UN would probably pass a resolution praising cancer and condemning Israel for ridding the world of it. Now I can add that if Israel found a cure for cancer, there would be some people who would insist on grumbling about Israeli PR. How sad.

          Anyway, Israel will continue to do wonderful things saving lives all over the world, I will continuing praising Israel when it does good things (just as I will praise any country and organizatoin that does good things–without questioning their movtives), and you will continue to be angry.

          1. “I could provide you with detailed info about the work that Israel does in developing countries–all without anything in return.”

            Why is that necessary? You do not see Richard complain about that kind of work do you? He only complains when PR is given preference over considerations of what is really needed in a specific situation.

            “I used to joke that if Israel found a cure for cancer, the UN would probably pass a resolution praising cancer and condemning Israel for ridding the world of it.”

            Wow, what a humorist you are!

            “Now I can add that if Israel found a cure for cancer, there would be some people who would insist on grumbling about Israeli PR.”

            Let me reassure you: This would only happen if Israel used this cure for cancer in a PR effort to distract attention from its land grabbing in the West Bank and other things decent people object to. But you seem to have a problem in acknowledging cause and effect when people criticize Israel.

          2. “Did you know that back in the early 1980s, Israel rebuilt and modernized the Shifa hospital in Gaza and trained the doctors and nurses there? So, there’s no doubt in my mind that Israel would help the people of Gaza if there was an earthquake or other disaster. I also don’t doubt that Hamas would do everything possible to see that the Palsestinians suffered and died rather than receive Israeli aid. After all, many Hamas leaders proudly announce how much they love death.”

            How dare you? Really? I’m so furious that words escape me.

          3. Exactly! If Israel found a cure for cancer, you would be grumbling about Israel’s PR. Better that cancer would not be cured. This is all so silly.

            Right now, there is a terrible tragedy in Haiti. According to the news reports, 200,000 people have died. Many more are injured and sick. Their lives have been ruined. But some countries have managed to save a few hundred, and Israel is among the countries that has done good work. I’m sure we all wish that none of this was necessary. But some people see this as nothing more than an occasion to criticize Israel, and that’s sad. Think about the Haitians.

          4. Are you really that dense, or are you being deliberately obtuse?

            Why doesn’t Israel do “wonderful things saving lives” in the Gaza Strip, if it’s so concerned about humanity? Is it the hypocrisy you don’t understand? Or is this willful ignorance?

          5. “Exactly! If Israel found a cure for cancer, you would be grumbling about Israel’s PR. Better that cancer would not be cured. This is all so silly.”
            Cociealla-bella-baby: whose post or whatever are you referring to?

          6. Israel does save lives of Gazans. Every year, thousands of Gazans are treated in Israel’s hospitals, and in many cases, lives are saved. In 2007, for example, more than 7,000 Gazans were treated in Israel’s hospitals, according to the BBC. Also, as I’ve stated before, Israel rebuilt the Shifa hospital in Gaza and trained Gaza’s doctors and nurses. And guess what hospitals do.

            Even during the war last year, Israeli hospitals admitted people from Gaza. This was while Hamas was firing rockets at Israel. Barzilai hospital treats the most patients from Gaza, but Barzilai is also the hospital most targeted by Hamas rockets. Ironic, no? In February 2008, a rocket landed near the hospital’s emergency room on the same day that a Palestinian woman from Beit Lahiya in Gaza gave birth there to premature twins. Look it up.

            However, last February, UNRWA temporarily suspended aid to Gaza because Hamas stole the aid for the second time in one week. Hamas broke into a warehouses. But I know you don’t want to hear this. Sorry.

            This past December, Israel treated Gazans who had swine flu.

            Israel used to treat many more Palestinian patients, and if it weren’t for Hamas and other terrorists, Israel would not have to stop Palestinians at the border. Some Israelis have been killed by Palestinians claiming they are on the way to Israeli hospitals. I know you need an example: In 2004, a female suicide bomber who claimed she had surgical plates in her legs blew herself up at the crossing after bypassing the metal detector, killing four Israelis. Look it up.

            Also, until Israel managed to put a stop to it, the crossing between Israel and Gaza was bombarded repeatedly by Hamas rockets and mortars. Yes, Hamas attacked the very crossings that allowed Palestinian patients an entry into Israel for help. Ironic, no?

            Anyway, the majority of critically ill patients who need help do get help in Israel.

          7. how do you know that his motives are so pure and not the least bit political?

            His motives are not political when it comes to disaster relief. When it comes to health care reform or financial reform then of course his motives are political. But unlike Israel, he knows when politics are appropriate & when they’re not. And in Haiti they’re NOT.

            His views are his own and carry no more weight than the views of all the other doctors.

            Wrong again, my dear. He is an experienced emergency medicine professional who has been to all the major disasters Israel has aided till this one. His views have far more weight than the vast majority of other Israelis doctors who have not had such professional experience. Stop trying to tear this man down. His experience puts you & all yr other doctors to shame.

            I happen to know (because I know about the hospital where he works) that he has a political agenda

            What lameness. You have some vague, unspecified secret knowledge about Hadassah Hospital that includes the secret codes that unlock Dr. Donchin’s political commitments. Are you for real. EVIDENCE. What do you have?

            Most doctors would disagree with him

            Evidence? You have none.

            That’s like having a team of observers come to the house of a heart attack victim before sending for the ambulance.

            No, it’s like having an entire nation of millions all having simultaneous heart attacks & you decide to take a few hrs to assess how best to help the most before you actually send doctors in to help in ways that might not be very effective & end up helping fewer than might be helped if you actually had a real plan drawn up & followed it.

            Most doctors would say

            EVIDENCE!

            terrorist regimes have no qualms about hiding behind civilians

            Readers take note of the repetitive nature of this habasrist nonsense. Sweetheart, the hiding behind civilian shields is a no go as far as this blog is concerned because it’s a fabrication by the IDF & MFA to distract fr. the fact that Israel actually forces Palestinian teenagers at gunpoint to be such shields. Don’t make this argument again. Don’t even reply to this as the subject has been dealt w. here ad nauseam by hasbarists like you before. I’m serious.

            If an earthquake happened in Gaza, would Israel offer the same field hospital? I’m absolutely sure of it.

            Don’t that beat all. Frankly, I’ve never met a more credulous hasbarist before. You’ve actually drunk the Kool Aid. Wow. I don’t know what to say other than that you’ve taken lv. of reality, yr senses & anything else resembling the real world.

            A year ago this month, Israel opened a field hospital to treat residents of Gaza wounded in fighting between the IDF and various terrorist groups.

            You’ve got to be kidding. Israel murdered 1,100 civilians leaving many wounded to die in their own blood & you have the chutzpah to claim something fictional like this actually happened?? This is really a lie. Lies are absolutely forbidden here. So unless you can prove this fiction actually existed your comment privileges will be affected.

            Are you aware that during both wars in Lebanon, Israel brought hundreds of patients into Israeli hospitals?

            You’re truly living in an alternate universe. This never happened. First the IDF deliberately said it would destroy Lebanon. Why in heavens name would it Israel help anyone in a country it had sworn publicly to destroy? Your lies don’t even have a faint resemblance to truth or reality.

            Israeli emergency rooms often treat wounded terrorists in beds next to their victims?

            Israelis generally don’t allow wounded terrorists to live. And I’ve never heard of a wounded terrorist treated in an Israeli hospital. Though dad gum I’d sure like to see you dredge up something, anything to support another whopper.

            Israel coordinates a Jordanian field hospital in Gaza.

            Israel doesn’t do ANYTHING in Gaza, period. Jordanian field hospital??!! What planet do you live on?

            many Hamas leaders proudly announce how much they love death.

            More distortions. Hamas leaders proudly announce they are willing to die on behalf of the Palestinian people in its resistance to the Occupation. You did get the death part right. But you left out a few critical elements. But I can’t fault a hasbarist for trying.

            I could provide you with detailed info about the work that Israel does in developing countries–all without anything in return.

            I’ll bet you can. Where do you dig this stuff up from? Which pro-Israel advocacy group or Israeli government ministry??

            I will continuing praising Israel when it does good things

            The better hasbarists usually add “and I will criticize Israel when it does bad things.” But you don’t even bother because you’re very bad at what you do.

          8. Cociella: “Israel coordinates a Jordanian field hospital in Gaza.”

            Silverstein: “Israel doesn’t do ANYTHING in Gaza, period. Jordanian field hospital??!! What planet do you live on?”

            From Planet Earth:
            Newswire: “Feb 3, 2009 … Israel Coordinates Jordanian Field Hospital for Gaza. Israel is now helping the residents of Gaza by helping to build a field hospital adjacent to Shifa hospital.
            http://www.globonews.newsvine.com

            Jordan News Agency – Petra: “Workers at the Jordanian field hospital Gaza 6 work around the clock to receive Gazan patients and provide them with needed medical assistance.”
            http://www.petra.gov.jo

            Jordania Embassy in U.S.: “Oct 2, 2009 … GAZA (Petra) –– Jordan’s field hospital in Gaza dealt with 27000 cases since August 2 …”
            http://www.jordanembassyus.gov

          9. Whoa, wait a second. You want to take credit for a JORDANIAN field hospital in Gaza because the Israeli gov’t allowed them to enter Gaza and do their work??? You must be joking. Israel didn’t HELP build the field hospital acc. to the YouTube video you yrself linked to. The IDF spokesperson described what the Jordanians are going to do in Gaza & never once claimed Israel had any role in it other than opening the border for the Jordanians to pass. This is wild. I can’t believe you’d try to pass this off in the way you have.

      3. You refuse to see the dreadful irony here, don’t you? And you refuse to accept the essential human rights law of the world – that human suffering is not to be inflicted, tolerated or ignored, regardless of the political beliefs of the sufferers.

        Israel is one of the worst human rights violators on the planet, having for decades inflicted massive suffering and administered outrageously inhumane treatment to both Palestinians and Lebanese. Thousands rot in Israeli prisons, many, including children, have been tortured, and basic dignity is ignored.

        Let us also not ignore the elephant in the room – Gaza. The horrific daily reality of life in the world’s biggest outdoor prison, and of course the lunatic slaughter of 1,000 civilians last year, cannot possibly be counterbalanced by the tawdry showboating Israel is demonstrating in Haiti.

        Your ignorant refusal to look at reality throws your fawning adulation of the wonderful Israel into a very harsh light indeed. Either you are really clueless about the reality in the OPT’s or you are carefully absorbing your hasbara lessons.

        Since you seem to feel the need to obsess about portable toilets, perhaps you could arrange to have some sent to Gaza. Raw sewage flows in the streets there because Israel bombed the treatment plant and refuses to allow repair materials to enter the strip.

        1. Oh, I do see the irony. Here’s one irony: I just finished reading an article in the Atlantic written by a journalist who visited Gaza in 1961. She said that the refugees in Gaza referred to it as one large prison. Hmmm.

          Here’s another irony: In Israel, “one of the worst human rights violators on the planet,” Arabs have a higher standard of living and are healthier and better educated than the average Arab in any of the surrounding Arab countries.

          The sewage problem has been going in in Gaza ever since Hamas took over. Israel has offered to help improve the sewage system.

          Here’s another irony for you since you like to talk about bombing and distruction in Gaza: Hamas tried to target a power plant in Israel that happens to generate most of Gaza’s electricity. Then they would complain that they had no electricity. By the way, do you remember in January 2008 when Hamas turned off the electricity in Gaza and blamed it on Israel. Then Hamas leaders sat in a room with the shades pulled down and used candles. They took PR pictures as well. The only problem is they didn’t realize that the light from outside could been seen coming in between the shades.

          Oh, but how dare I! I dare because I hope that one day the Palestinians in Gaza will be able to live under a caring government–not under the rule of Hamas, the people who love death. I do wish them better leadership and a chance to do better than the mostly failed Arab countries that surround them.

          1. 1961???? Oh, please.

            How do you know whether the government of Hamas is “caring” or not, and what do you care? Do you live in Gaza? Have you visited, or do you have any friends or relatives living there? I didn’t think so.

            “Here’s another irony: In Israel, “one of the worst human rights violators on the planet,” Arabs have a higher standard of living and are healthier and better educated than the average Arab in any of the surrounding Arab countries.”

            What does this useless piece of hasbara have to do with anything? Please go back and find something relevant to bore me with. While you’re at it, you can tell me how Israel is so humane as to have 400 Palestinian children locked in its jails without due process. Or does its humanity extend only to other Israelis? Is that it?

            “Here’s another irony for you since you like to talk about bombing and distruction in Gaza: Hamas tried to target a power plant in Israel that happens to generate most of Gaza’s electricity. Then they would complain that they had no electricity. By the way, do you remember in January 2008 when Hamas turned off the electricity in Gaza and blamed it on Israel. Then Hamas leaders sat in a room with the shades pulled down and used candles. They took PR pictures as well. The only problem is they didn’t realize that the light from outside could been seen coming in between the shades.”

            Do you have any source for this information, other than the Jerusalem Post? I have not been able to substantiate your claim of these fake power outages, care to cite some reliable source for this? By the way, even if Hamas is guilty of this, does this in any way excuse Israel for its endless human rights abuses against Palestinians or for its illegal occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem?

          2. You didn’t think I’ve visited Gaza? You thunk wrong. I’ve been there. More than once. And you? I won’t make assumptions.

            Should I not care how Hamas treats Palestinians in Gaza? Oh, I get it. We’re not supposed to care how Palestinians are treated by their own and by their fellow Arabs. Okay, I didn’t know that. So I’ll try to stop caring.

            I’ve noticed that you have provided no independent sources for any of your false accusations, yet you want sources from me. Tra la la.

          3. I’ve been there. More than once.

            Prove it. When were you there? Tell me the name of a single Gazan you know or have visited.

            you have provided no independent sources for any of your false accusations

            Every single thing I say here I’ve researched & written about before (you think you’re the first numbskull to say these things here?) & authenticated with links to credible sources. If you don’t believe something I say, just ask for proof (except for the DWB issue which I told you to check yrself).

    3. ” Interestingly, Israeli teams plan to stay on for at least one more month”

      aha, and they made that decision after Dochin’s piece appeared, no? so maybe he’s had an effect.

          1. Did they stay two weeks? Or a month?

            So a disgruntled ex-relief doctor says they were going to stay two weeks, but in fact they stayed a month. What are we to believe – that they did so because that was what they were planning all along or they did so because a disgruntled former relief worker complained?

  5. Lets be fair though, this is a small airport working at diminished capacity. Yeah its the AMERICAN military thats in control, but do you really expect them to be factoring NGOs into their operation plans? Military expects military to do the job better, same as NGOs expect NGOS to do the same.

    1. do you really expect them to be factoring NGOs into their operation plans?

      Absolutely, unless they want the world to begin talking about the US military occupation of Haiti, which is what the media is beginning to do. And unless the US military wants to provide all the humanitarian relief to Haitians, then yes, they MUST arrange for the full freedom of all such aid to get into Haiti in expedited fashion. There is FAR MORE need for portable toilets than armored personnel carriers.

      How is this accusation any different then Rush Limbaugh accusing Obama of politicizing Haiti by… omg omg… helping.

      Because Obama is helping out of true humanitarian motives & Israel isn’t. How’s that for a simple answer?

      1. Dan: Without the NGO’s there wouldn’t be enough personnel or equipment to help anybody. In case you forgot, the International Committee of the Red Cross is an NGO. They need the military to facilitate their work in disaster areas by creating work areas and maintaining some semblance of safety. The military certainly should not be obstructing help from arriving in Haiti.

        Does Israel have something against Doctors Without Borders? They’ve been kicked out of the OPT, now they’re being given a hard time in Haiti. I’m utterly disgusted. Just when I think I can’t get any more disgusted, I’m more deeply outraged than I thought I could ever be.

        1. Richard, I probably worded it poorly but my point was that I don’t think the military is blocking DWB, rather they’re prioritizing. Further, having military personel in Haiti has a purpose. First, filling the temporary gap created by the collapse of Haitian police force and second, military doctors are trained almost entirely for rapid response emergencies.

          And honestly, I think the media needs to be careful about dropping the “occupation” label into this situation–unless you want occupation to become a synonym for “humanitarian response”–as in “the Israeli Humanitarian Response in the west bank” or “Chinese Humanitarian Reponse of Tibet.”

          Finally, I guess the “big picture” of PR is important, but I don’t think its as important to the people on the ground. The baby might be named “Ben Gurion” or “Mahmoud Darwish” or “Cassius Clay.”

          Mary: I think we’re agreeing on your first point–the military does have a reason for beng there (and I think you went into specifics better then I did), but in order for them to make safe zones they need to get there first.

          However on your second point, whether or not Israel has something against DWB… As Richard pointed out, its American flight control thats turned away the flights, not Israeli. I’m pretty sure they’re still different countries.

  6. And another thing… How is this accusation any different then Rush Limbaugh accusing Obama of politicizing Haiti by… omg omg… helping.

  7. You’re seriously complaining about Israel sending a huge team to Haiti (more than thrice as large as that sent by China, whose population is orders of magnitude larger than Israel’s)? What purpose does this serve, other than to demonize Israel for going out of its way to do something nice for disaster victims?

    By the way, the Israelis did not only establish the best-equipped field hospital in Haiti, but they also set up the communications equipment that allowed them and other aid teams to coordinate their efforts and for journalists to get their story out.

    As for the MSF airplane story, that seems to be America’s fault, not Israel’s. (Notable, though, is that the Americans immediately stepped in and started doing things like air-traffic control so that some sort of order could be restored as quickly as possible.)

    1. Silverstein is an absolute bigot. The truth is that he couldn’t give two hoots about Tikkun Olam. He just cares about attacking his brothers.

      1. Actually, I couldn’t give two hoots about you. As for, Tikun Olam, I’ll lv my readers to judge whether I honor the standards of that concept. As for attacking, I’d say you did it first since I don’t know you fr. Adam.

        You’ve violated my comment rules & are banned.

    2. You’re seriously complaining about Israel sending a huge team to Haiti

      I’m not complaining about Israel sending relief to Haiti. I’m complaining about Israel’s motives & expectations in doing so. It is not doing it for the sake of the thing itself, but for the sake of PR & goodwill among the nations. And the good Israeli doctor tells it like it is. This is all meant to distract fr. Goldstone & all the other horrible PR Israel has gotten lately. Not to mention allowing Israel to prepare its medical emergency care for the next war. This is a medical version of how Hitler exploited the Franco civil war to test new German armaments in preparation for WWII.

      1. I fail to see any similarity between improving medicine and test-driving weapons which do nothing but kill people. Improving medicine helps everyone everywhere. Anything the Israeli medical team learns in Haiti would be invaluable to war-torn areas of the world. Is it worth denying them that knowledge because there is an infinitesimally small chance that Israel will have such a boost of confidence from their new medical ideas that they’ll start a war?

        As for their motivations, do you really think China or America or France care any more about Haiti than Israel? Every single country is sending people for PR purposes. Israel, however, is sending a team larger and better-equipped than even countries many times its size or wealth, and they should be commended for that. They could have just signed a check (like Germany), but they didn’t: they sent a large team that actually helps individual people instead of just dumping aid onto a boat and sending it on its way with no one to coordinate its distribution.

        1. First, Israel was test driving its medical technology to improve treatment for wounded IDF soldiers on the battlefield. So it was exploiting Haitian misery for its own selfish purposes. No harm in providing good care for IDF wounded. But to do so on the backs of innocent Haitians is reprehensible. Second, Israel does test drive its weapons & U.S. weapons on battlefield like Lebanon & Gaza. The DIME & other advanced US weaponry were tested in this way.

          Anything the Israeli medical team learns in Haiti would be invaluable to war-torn areas of the world.

          Correction. To one particular war torn corner of the world.

          do you really think China or America or France care any more about Haiti than Israel?

          I think that Obama cares far more about Haiti than israel does. But the major diff. is that none of these countries exploits its alleged concern for Haitian victims as Israel does.

          They could have just signed a check (like Germany), but they didn’t

          If Germany had the Goldstone Report, the one year anniversary of the Gaza massacre, etc. breathing down its neck believe me it would’ve sent thousands of doctors, nurses & troops to Haiti. You just can’t seem to face the fact that Israel doesn’t do anything for purely altrustic motives. Not even close. It’s a hopeful, naive condition you have which perhaps you may outlearn or outgrow. Or perhaps you’ll remain childishly naive for many yrs. or forever.

          1. No country does anything for purely altruistic motives. The reason the vast majority of countries who are contributing is because they can, and if they did not, they would be singled out for scorn and rightly accused of callousness and selfishness.

            As for the Haitians, how is treating their ailments “exploiting” them? They’re being treated by medical staff of the highest calibers using cutting-edge technology. Should Israel never try and improve its field medicine? Or is it only ever allowed to try and improve its medicine for use on its own people? The only way Israel could be “exploiting” in this situation is if they had caused the earthquake in the first place in order to produce disaster victims on whom to practice field medicine, which is absolutely ridiculous.

            As for the Israelis testing their weapons in Lebanon and Gaza: that’s what happens in war. If you have weapons you’ve only ever used in peacetime tests, you have to test them to see if they’re practical for use in war, especially if those weapons can save your soldiers’ lives or more accurately target combatants. Weapons development these days isn’t about killing more people faster: it’s about killing the right people with fewer casualties on both sides.

          2. The only way Israel could be “exploiting” in this situation is if they had caused the earthquake in the first place

            What utter nonsense. Have you not read anything I’ve published here on this subject? So none of the things Dr. Dolchin or I have written about the Israeli effort have struck you in the least exploitative? If so, you’re beyond talking to. You’re simply either obtuse or willfully blind.

            especially if those weapons can save your soldiers’ lives or more accurately target combatants…it’s about killing the right people with fewer casualties on both sides.

            There weren’t so many ‘combatants’ last yr in Gaza which is why the IDF killed 1,100 civilians. But there were several sophisticated weapons like drones which did excellent jobs of killing civilians in Gaza. Mazel tov to you & the IDF for such excellent testing though perhaps it bothers you very little that there was so much collateral damage. So does all this rhetoric mean you believe Israel killed the “right people” in Gaza among those 1,100? WHich ones of that number were the right ones & which ones were–oops–mistakes? OR does it matter to you?

          3. One has to wonder whether the 400-plus children who constituted close to one third of the total killed were among the right ones.

          4. I just don’t see what is exploitative about treating people and in the process honing medical skills that can be put to use either in wartime or, obviously, in the peacetime/disaster situations in which they were honed.

            As for the combatants issue, you are working with faulty number. The PCHR number of civilian casualties (1100-ish) is extremely high. It describes over 200 combatants, both Gazan police officers and “civilians” who were in actuality members of violent terrorist organizations, who were classified as “civilians.”

            Furthermore, civilian death counts only have meaning when compared to combatant death counts or to the population of the attacked territory as a whole. Civilian casualties are an ugly inevitability in war, especially a war in a small, confined space in which the military apparatus of one side has enmeshed itself completely within the civilian population and deliberately uses its own civilians as shields. Compared to the number of combatants killed (around 675, give or take 25), the actual number of civilians killed is relatively low for high-population-density urban warfare. Compared to the population of Gaza, a total of some 1.5 million people, the war (characterized by some as a massacre and an act of genocide) claimed less than .1% of the population.

            To compare: a similar percentage of people in the United States die of obesity every single year, and while obesity is treated as a serious problem in America, public opinion in general doesn’t see the wave of death occurring due to obesity as the problem, but merely the ailment of obesity itself and the myriad accompanying health risks.

          5. It describes over 200 combatants, both Gazan police officers and “civilians” who were in actuality members of violent terrorist organizations, who were classified as “civilians.”

            I think the real number was 250 newly trained, unarmed police cadets massacred at their graduation on the parade ground. Sitting ducks. Didn’t know what hit ’em since the war hadn’t yet broken out. Ah yes indeed, violent terrorists all. Imagine the meter maid who last gave you a parking tkt. She (or he) was one of those ‘terrorists’ mowed down on that parade ground. They were NOT combatants & you will not get away here with calling them so. They were civilians. Killing them was a war crime. Period.

            civilian death counts only have meaning when compared to combatant death counts or to the population of the attacked territory as a whole

            This is pure casuistry. I don’t even know what it means. Are you claiming the civilians deaths don’t have “meaning” unless some other threshhold is crossed? And what would that be? I’ve got news for you, the civilian deaths are quite meaningful not only to the family survivors but also to Judge Goldstone & any international criminal court that will take up the case. There were 300 combatant deaths (NOT 675 as you & the IDF claim) & 1,100 civilians–an atrocious ratio by any stretch.

            deliberately uses its own civilians as shields

            OK, I’m making a new comment rule. No hasbarist commenting here will in future be allowed to make the “civilians as shields” argument since not only is it blatantly false, unsubstantiated hasbarist nonsense; but ISRAEL is the one who not only uses civilians as shields, it uses Palestinian teenagers as shields (I wrote about his here w. a video to prove it). My readers are getting tired of reading these facts & you are the 10th hasbarist who has made this non-argument. So you won’t make it again. Do you understand?

            the number of combatants killed (around 675, give or take 25

            This number is pure fiction prob. gleaned fr. the IDF which actually didn’t even count bodies of combatants or civilians. The Palestinians on the other hand made concise & accurate counts & used multiple means of confirming the deaths. You will not make unsubstantiated claims here on subjects like this. Do you understand? And if you make a claim you will support it with credible evidence (not a fake IDF body count).

            a similar percentage of people in the United States die of obesity every single year

            You’re getting so bad, & so unintentionally & darkly funny that it’s reminding me of the brilliant anti-war satire, Catch-22. If I didn’t know better I’d say you’re deliberately parodying a hasbarist approach in order to point how insanely bizarre it is. You do realize comparing Gaza civilian dead with the death of fat people is–well, weird beyond all get out, don’t you??!

          6. Disclosure. I am an Israeli who made aliyah from London 14 years ago. I am not employed by the Israeli government as a “hasbarist”. I am an individual citizen with private opinions. I came to this post from a link in your comment at the Guardian which I read regularly.

            Now for my comment. I think your revulsion at the effort put into PR during this dreadful tragedy is not misplaced, but it is overstated. Israel did something good. You are right to praise them for it. They sought to win points from the world based on doing something good. You are right to call them on it. Israel’s PR team is exactly as cynical as every other government on the planet. Not startling news really, is it? I don’t think the cynicism of the PR outweighs the value of lives save, but I understand that you do. Fine.

            I am more concerned by your double standards and the tortuousness of your logic. Taking a random example from the quote above:

            “This number is pure fiction prob. gleaned fr. the IDF which actually didn’t even count bodies of combatants or civilians. The Palestinians on the other hand made concise & accurate counts & used multiple means of confirming the deaths. You will not make unsubstantiated claims here on subjects like this. Do you understand? And if you make a claim you will support it with credible evidence (not a fake IDF body count)”

            Where is your credible evidence that the IDF didn’t count bodies? I’m an Israeli and I am fairly certain that our government spun whatever numbers came from the tragic and unnecessary Operation Cast Lead. But I’m still surprised at your certainty that Palestinian claims are beyond reproach. Why is this claim any more substantiated than another?

            There are two wars going on here. In the physical one, Israel is a bullying and aggressive occupier with a larger arsenal and a moral imperative to desist. Nevertheless, in the propaganda war, the sides are far more evenly matched with spin and BS coming from both sides. You seem unwilling to ascribe the Palestinians with the necessary nous to wage the same kind of “hasbara” campaign that Israel does. Is that because you think they can’t or because they won’t. I’m not sure either answer would fly.

            I believe Israel should withdraw from all occupied land (yes, “all”, as defined by the UN) and that there should be a negotiated two state solution from which everyone would benefit. I will continue to exercise my democratic and moral duty towards that end. I hope and pray that all right-thinking people on both sides of the conflict and those of you outside the region who watch us carefully feel the same way.

          7. Where is your credible evidence that the IDF didn’t count bodies?

            There were doubting Israeli reporters last yr during the war who noted that the IDF’s numbers seemed to have been made up whole cloth, while the Palestinians painstakingly went through all the documentation of ea. death based on death certificates & hospital records. They compared names of the dead w. known lists of Hamas fighters & members to distinguish who were combatants & who civilians. These are materials Israel would not have had access to & w/o this it could make no possible estimate of how many died & whether a victim was a combatant or civilian.

          8. Thanks for your response.

            IDF reports are fake, but Israeli journalists reports are accurate? Spin and bias is a tool used only by the right? The Israeli press have nothing to gain from demonizing their own army and their right-wing government? Hmmm. I’m a left-leaning Haaretz reader and even I know that’s silly. Just because one side are proven liars, it does not follow that the other side always (or ever) tell the truth.

            Again, though, do you see any possibility that as much as the Israeli’s willfully downplayed the numbers, their Palestinian counterparts may have inflated them? Or, if not on this occasion, there may be others where the Palestinian propaganda machine may be operating just as strongly as the Israeli version in choosing where to draw the dividing line between militant and civilian? I know this is sensitive and I am in no way trying to paint unarmed civilians as militants, but I want to see how open you are to the possibility that the PR stunts you decry Israel for in your article are almost exactly similar (and similarly despicable) on both sides of this horrible conflict.

            Also, without wishing to be a nudnik, you failed to address my question about the balance of power in the Internet war and the very real possibility that there are active pro-Palestinian Hasbara-nikim that obfuscate and muddy the waters just as much as we Israelis plainly do (again, for the record, I’m a pro bono obfuscater, not a professional). Some of them may even post on your blog. I don’t doubt your altruism, but some of anti-Israel guys at the Guardian’s CiF are pretty hardcore, no?

          9. some of anti-Israel guys at the Guardian’s CiF are pretty hardcore, no?

            As you know, I used to publish at CIF & at CIF Watch you will indeed find me excoriated as one of the hardest of the hardcore. Generally, I don’t read much of CIF. Seth Freedman is excellent as far as his politics goes. I’m not sure who else you’re talking about as far as hardcore.

            As to yr other question: do I think that the Palestinians are to be always & implicitly trusted in everything they do & say about their motives & political positions? No, not at all. I’m not naive despite what you may hear on this subject fr. my opponents. I know there is just as much of a tendency to shade things on their side as on the Israeli. But the diff. is that there is a such a power balance favoring the Israelis that if a Palestinian fudges on an issue I’ll know & it won’t have nearly as much impact as when an Israeli general lies telling the world Israel has the most moral army in the world. Such a statement, if believed, will only allow Israel to attack again another day & kill even more Palestinians. That’s why Israel’s statements should be examined carefully & critiqued when necessary.

            I also criticize Palestinian positions or decisions when I find it warranted.

            As for pro-Palestinian hasbara, yes I suppose there is. There are readers of this blog who periodically show up & attempt to distort the discourse. But I’ll tell you that for every one of these there are 20 pro Israel hasbara types who come here attempting to slant the dialogue against the Palestinians.

          10. I am an activist for the people of Palestine. What you have just said is the most commonly heard hasbarist nonsense that I run across in my endeavors every day.

            The figures regarding the deaths and injuries were calibrated and substantiated by several NGO’s. It was the IDF who strenuously went about the task of disputing the figures because they reflected overwhelmingly civilian casualties.

            As for the utterly idiotic notion that there is a Palestinian “propaganda machine,” I can promise you that there is none. If only there were, then maybe the Palestinian side of the conflict would have a fighting chance (no pun intended) of being heard in the mainstream media.

          11. I believe Israel should withdraw from all occupied land (yes, “all”, as defined by the UN) and that there should be a negotiated two state solution…

            Glad to hear that you hold this position. But if Israel withdraws from all occupied land (i.e. territories occupied in June, 1967), then what is there to negotiate?

            Oh, and does “all occupied land” include the Golan Heights and Sheb`a Farms? Just wondering.

          12. All means all. And I still think this leaves room for negotiation. Jerusalem for example. I hate to think of it as a divided city when it is so important to so many people (if not particularly to me). I would love to see some kind of shared sovereignty so that everyone could reach their holiest places and cherish their experiences there.

            From a political and/or religious standpoint, I have no problem withdrawing from the Golan, but I understand there are people with greater minds than I who worry about the security impact this could have, not to mention the water problem. If there was a mutually satisfactory way to negotiate sovereignty of this land I would support it. If not, I say “withdraw” and then deal with the consequences..

            Please note that I say “withdraw”, not “give back”. I believe that the settlements are revolting and the treatment of Palestinians trying to farm their own property has been disturbing on many occasions. Nevertheless the West Bank and the Golan Heights were never under Palestinian rule with a Palestinian government. If there were a way to return these occupied lands to their former sovereignty under Jordanian and Syrian rule, I would see that as a more just solution. Let the Jordanians grant the land and sovereignty to Palestine. It should be theirs to give, not ours.

          13. I would love to get into a nice big debate with you, Daniel, but your comment is off topic and I am sure Richard would say your points have been debated here many times. I will only say that I fail to see why you think giving land to Jordan is a more just solution, especially when they don’t want it. Your argument about the WB and Golan never being under “Palestinian rule with a Palestinian government” is pure hasbara.

          14. Mary, hi. Nice to meet you.

            Last time I’ll say this – I am a private Israeli citizen. I have never been approached by anyone and asked to comment anywhere online and I don’t know anyone who has. I apologize if the content of my comments seems old hat to you. It’s all I have I’m afraid. I am a left-leaning Israeli who tries to hold my government accountable for its misdeeds and who works within a flawed democracy to bring about change. That’s it. Tarring everything I write as “pure hasbara” is as silly as someone saying everything you write is anti-Semitic which I never would. Please stop.

            Now, while I welcome your “promise” that there is no such thing as pro-Palestinian propaganda, I find that claim to be naive in the extreme.

            Let’s look it it from another angle. If there isn’t any pro-Palestinian propaganda, why isn’t there? Are all Palestinians morally opposed to using the Internet to further their cause? We know there are people in Gaza firing rockets into Israel. This is undisputed. Would these same people not engage equally in the war online where the imbalance of their arsenal is nullified? I worry that your certainty is rooted in a racist idea of what Palestinians can, and should, be doing.

            Why are you so sure that only Israelis train people to go online and comment? Do you not believe that the Palestinians and their supporters across the globe are smart enough to do the same? I’ve seen tens of thousands turn up for pro-Palestinian rallies that require serious organization. Yet you’re 100% sure no one has ever organized anyone to promote a pro-Palestinian idea online.

            I know that the Israeli government is cynical and devious, can you not imagine that Palestinian leadership is the same? We know that some Palestinians have been suicide bombers. Is online propaganda more morally repugnant?

            Richard had no problem admitting that there may be “readers of this blog who periodically show up & attempt to distort the discourse”. Why are you so sure this is not the case?

            Circling finally back to my point and to the tone of Richard’s original post – if there is cynicism and propaganda on both sides (and Richard’s ratio of 20:1 is purely anecdotal) then it is to be condemned on both sides. Israel sent a team of doctors to Haiti which saved people’s lives. Good. Israel also sent a PR team to maximize their exposure and to feed “Israel done good” stories to the world’s press. Not so good. Nevertheless, regardless of my government’s motivation, the team of Israeli doctors that left their homes, their practices and their families to voluntarily fly to Haiti for a “mere” two weeks did so with the sole intention of saving lives. These people are good people who have done good things regardless of race or creed. They are the same doctors who do treat Jews, Muslims and Christians alike in every Israeli hospital I have ever been in. I think that you have done these good physicians a disservice by painting them as puppets of a cynical government. I don’t believe that was what Professor Donchin intended.

          15. Hello Daniel,
            There is a Dutch journalist, Joris Luyendijk who has written some interesting things on Palestinian public relations (or rather the lack and/or clumsiness of it). I am translating here part of a review of his book “Het zijn net mensen” on western reporting in the Middle East:
            Luyendijk was sent to Palestine after a lynching in Ramallah, in which two Israeli soldiers had come to a horrible end. Along with hundreds of members of the press from all over the world he rushed to the site of the incident. But first, everyone was herded into an Israeli press center for compulsory registration. At this press centre an easy to digest version of the events was ready for everyone: “These two people were torn to pieces by a mad crowd. Look against what kind of blind hatred Israel has to defend itself …” Everything was tailored to the same message: “They are killing innocent Jews; the problem is the Palestinian hatred and terror.”
            Then at breakneck speed to Ramallah. “There was no press centre and the journalists did not have to be registered.”
            At the Palestinian Ministry of information no one responded to calls. And since there was no official Palestinian version of the facts available, as a matter of course, the Israeli version of events dominated in the media. Later Luyendijk would acquire a more nuanced view of what happened in Ramallah: Only the day before, at a nearby Jewish settlement, the mutilated corpse of a young Palestinian had been found. “This ‘victim of the Israeli occupation’ was being brought to his last resting place – hence all the cameras in Ramallah -, when the rumor spread that ‘two Israeli commandos had entered the city for another assassination.’ On top of this, emotions were already extremely heated, as in recent weeks Israel had killed more than 50 civilians.”
            The Palestinian authorities – in contrast to the Israeli – took no steps at all to get the real circumstances of the death of the two Israeli soldiers in Ramallah known. They did something else, though: They tried to seize all the images of the lynching. This request was met by all Arabic cameramen. An Italian reporter however, brought the images out into the open. And so it happened that in case of this incident too the routine was not broken: Only the Israeli version of the story went around the world.
            Israel knows how to deal with the phenomenon of sympathy-vote and can count on a perfectly well-oiled public relations machine. As an example Luyendijk gives the failed Camp David Summit between the Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in July 2000.
            Barak had hoped to get Arafat to sign a final arrangement for the occupied territories in the competition. His proposal was no more than an empty shell, and totally unacceptable to the Palestinians. The Israeli public relations machine did, however, succeed in presenting things as if Arafat had rejected a ‘generous proposal for peace’. The Palestinian authorities took no steps to refute this completely fictitious Israeli version of events. Result: the Western media accepted the Israeli story as being the truth.

          16. Just wanted to add that while I disagree w. some of the things you say, you seem to me more of the genuine article than other commenters who come here saying they’re “liberal” or “peace-loving” Israelis who take issue with my views. This is usually an intro that attempts to mask the fact that they’re liberal or peace loving in name only & as long as it doesn’t require any real effort on their or Israel’s part for peace.

            I think you’re genuinely sincere based on what you’ve written saying you’re willing for Israel to give up all the 1967 conquest for peace. I don’t agree w. you about returning it to Jordan, but as you concede Jordan would just turn around & cede it to the Palestinians. So I don’t have any major issue there.

            We have some passionate commenters here & I respect their passion. Adjectives can sometimes fly hot & heavy & I urge you to try to take it in style: the web is a place full of passion & invective all at once as are these threads. I value yr contribution here even while at times disagreeing w. you.

            As for pro-Palestinian propaganda, there may be. But if there is it is so disorganized, so ineffectual that hardly anyone knows about it. There is no MFA recruiting myriads of bloggers to monitor the internet for insults to Israel’s virtue. There are no equivalent to the army of right wing pro Israel NGOs which purport to monitor the Arab media for the least tidbit of anti-Semtism or anti-Zionist rhetoric. This just doesn’t exist in the pro-Palestinian world. Yes, there are website like Angry Arab or Electronic Intifada which are even more strident and passionate than some here. But I never get a sense that there is an organized online presence directed from any central place which I often do regarding pro Israel hasbara.

            And just think about it, the term “Israel lobby” resonates because it exists. Does “Arab lobby” resonate? No. Because there is none. Yes, there are groups like CAIR and the Arab American Anti Discrimination Committee. But they pale in comparison to the budgets & impact of Aipac. Many Arab Americans actually bemoan the fact that they are often outorganized by the lobby. They try to raise funds & strengthen organizations to do more for their cause. But even they admit they have a good ways to go before they can challenge Aipac & the lobby.

            As for readers who show up and attempt to distort the discourse…that is far more on the pro Israel side than the other. And I never get the impression that the harsh anti-Israel rhetoric comparing Israel to Nazis, etc. comes fr any organized place. It is much more hit or miss than the pro Israel hasbara type comments here.

          17. Apparently you think I’m some kind of idiot, Daniel. I assure you that I am not. Your condescension is peeking through.

            There is no wealthy, US-fed government of the people of Palestine, no powerful lobby in the US to influence Congress to pro-Palestinian positions. However, unless you have been living in a hermetically sealed igloo on the north pole, you should be aware that Israel has a well funded hasbara program funded by their government. There are powerful organizations in the US (ZOA, ADL, AIPAC are among them) that sponsor and administer public relations efforts and train people to speak on social networking sites, to the press, and to politicians and citizens with the purpose of advancing Israel’s public image and interests.

            There are no such well financed and well organized publicity juggernauts helping Palestinians. There are organizations and groups but no well heeled lobby, no power to influence Congress, no control and influence in the news media or Hollywood. Your assertion that there is a propaganda machine somewhere, financed by God knows who, is utterly incorrect, and I say this from my experience in working among these groups and organizations. Oh, if only we did have half of what Israel uses every day to further its agenda! And no, we do not “train” each other with talking points and rehearsed and canned “responses”. We do not have anything such as Campus Watch, either.

            Your reference to suicide bombers is way out of line and is a nice big red flag that tells me just who and what you really are. Interesting how you just wandered over to this blog from the Guardian and took this opportunity to repeat the same old rhetoric that pro-Israel hasbarist types parrot over and over.

          18. “no control and influence in the news media or Hollywood”

            Richard, are you going to let this kind of nonsense stand?

            Mary, I’ll tell you again that despite living here in Israel for 14 years, the only time I have ever heard of my country funding Hasbara is from people like you. Don’t get me wrong, I fully believe it to be true, it just has nothing to do with me.

            Why is it so hard for you to believe that I could have these opinions as a private citizen? Why do I have to be part of a conspiracy? Would you rather I was part of a faceless group of Zionists than a human being with real experiences and a different opinion to you? I think you have a problem dealing with individuals which is why you keep trying to dismiss me as a representative of something you claim to understand. I’m just a person like you who wants justice and freedom for all people.

            If I am condescending to you, Mary, it’s because you continue to talk in childish generalizations. I believe you have a racist view of Palestinians despite the sterling work you do for them. You see the pro-Palestinian movement as being some kind of grassroots, under-supported, Mickey Mouse operation despite the enormous support it rightly enjoys across the world.

            Elsewhere on this blog there are calls for Israel to stop playing the victim and hiding behind the Holocaust. I agree. I think it is a disgusting and cynical desecration to use the Holocaust as an excuse for mistreating others. But, then I turn the accusation back on you and others that use the same language. Stop playing the victim and hiding behind the “nakba”. It is time for Palestinian statehood, not Palestinian whingeing and finger-pointing. Mary, I feel you have a very last century mentality. “Look at the Zionists. Look at all the support they have. Look at their powerful lobby. We don’t have anything like that. Poor us.” Screw that. If you are as involved as you say you are, why aren’t you organizing yourselves better? Why aren’t you training people to write coherent messages on boards. Why don’t you have a Palestinian version of Campus Watch (whatever that is – I’m not being disingenuous, I really don’t know and can’t be bothered to look it up)? Don’t cry about lack of funding, go and raise the money from your supporters. There are 14 million Jews on this entire planet and that includes me and my kids who I can promise you have never donated anything to AIPAC. Even discounting the racist assumption that every one of those Jews supports Israel, I still think the pool of potential pro-Palestinian donors is slightly larger. Get your head in the game and make a difference instead of pointing at Israel and complaining.

            As a citizen here, I can tell you the one thing you don’t know about us. Apart from the religious crackpots which make up the minority of the population the only thing this Israeli wants is to live in peace. Anecdotally I can tell you that everyone I know feels the same. I know you don’t believe me. You think we all get together and discuss how much we hate Arabs and strategise on ways to steal their land. You’re wrong. We think about work and our kids and our next holiday. I know that most Palestinians are exactly the same which is why I truly believe that a two-state solution can be negotiated and achieved through political means. It is the just and fair solution and it must happen.

            Mary, you and your friends need to prepare for that – I know me and my friends are. Lose the victim mentality. Embrace the future.

            And, as a sidepoint, try to avoid terms like “control of the media”. They just make you look like a dumb thug instead of a passionate believer. I know you will think I’m being condescending again, but you need to pick up your game.

          19. Richard, are you going to let this kind of nonsense stand?

            Israel & the lobby has influence in the U.S. media, very great influence. But not control. That’s overstated.

            the only time I have ever heard of my country funding Hasbara is from people like you

            Oh really. And kind of “people like you” are we? That’s sounds awfully condescending. As for hasbara, then you aren’t reading Haaretz. I read a story almost every month using the term, mostly negatively. Where have you been?

            it just has nothing to do with me

            This is precisely the problem w. the Occupation. Israel goes around the world spinning lies & distortions as an intrinsic part of its hasbara efforts & you, the Israeli lefty you claim to be, say it has nothing to do w. you. Really. I’m frankly quite disappointed in you. I disagree w. much of what you say. But this statement is a real low for you compared to some of the more cogent things you’ve written here.

            I believe you have a racist view of Palestinians

            That’s the 2nd time you’ve abused this word. Don’t do it again. Keep it out of the discourse. It’s not warranted at all in the context of this discussion. Nor does an Israeli Jew have the right to tell a Muslim that their view of a fellow Muslim country is racist. That’s the height of condesencion (& a very Israeli chutzpadik trait I might add).

            It is time for Palestinian statehood, not Palestinian whingeing and finger-pointing.

            I’m starting to find you offensive here. Mary is not doing anything of the sort. And the fact that you perceive her to be is your problem not hers. So even if you think your perception is right I find it offensive. So stop.

            Why don’t you have a Palestinian version of Campus Watch

            What utter narischkeit. CW is one of the most disgusting bits of pro-Israel hasbara online & you’d have the Palestinians replicate such odiousness?? Really.

            Get your head in the game

            I also find it deeply offensive for an Israeli Jew to be lecturing Muslims about how Palestinians should organize themselves. Talk about racist. Would you just stop, really?!! Stop giving advice. No Palestinian & certainly no one here asked for you to tell them what they should do.

            Apart from the religious crackpots which make up the minority of the population

            More sophistry. Those religious crackpots include some of the most noxious, dangerous & violent members of your society and their views far outstrip their numbers in influence. But you somehow neglected that little fact.

            the only thing this Israeli wants is to live in peace

            This is more sophistry & utterly meaningless. And it makes me mad. Everyone wants to live in peace. Serial killers even want to live in peace (on their own terms of course). That indicates nothing. The road to hell is paved with people who said all I want is to live in peace. What are they willing to give up for peace? What painful things are they willing to do for peace? What sacrifices, what notoriety, what courageous deed are they willing to do for peace? You ought to think of this before you brag about such meaningless trivialities.

            You think we all get together and discuss how much we hate Arabs and strategise on ways to steal their land.

            No, that’s what you have a gov’t for. They do all this for you w. lots of help fr. settlers who think of nothing but this.

            I know that most Palestinians are exactly the same

            Actually Gazans don’t think about work because they don’t have any–ditto the holiday part. As for kids, they think about them in far diff. ways than you think of theirs. Like getting their next meal or getting medical treatment for them if they can find any. Is that anything like what you’re thinking about. Do you realize how utterly condescending you sound?? If you’re trying to put your of Israel’s best foot forward, you’re not doing a very good job I have to say.

            They just make you look like a dumb thug

            This is a serious violation of my comment rules. Yr future comments will be moderated. Read the rules & respect them or you will have consequences.

            I know you will think I’m being condescending again

            No, more like fucking obnoxious.

          20. Apologies.

            I call it how I see it. Someone writing that Jews control the media is asking for trouble on any board anywhere in the world. It is dumb and thuggish to do so and I expect an apology from Mary for writing it (not to me, to the board). Moderate away.

            Richard, I’m sorry if I have disappointed you. Of course I was unaware that to post a comment here I had to offer arguments you could be proud of, but I will do my best in the future.

            “I also find it deeply offensive for an Israeli Jew to be lecturing Muslims about how Palestinians should organize themselves. Talk about racist. Would you just stop, really?!! Stop giving advice. No Palestinian & certainly no one here asked for you to tell them what they should do.”

            First of all I have no idea about Mary’s religion and nor should it factor into my comments. But given that this whole board is predicated on criticizing the behavior of Israelis, it’s a little rich to have a go at me for criticizing the behavior of Palestinians. I think you’re being silly. I may be condescending and obnoxious, but I don’t think I was out of line.

            As for Campus Watch, I just went and looked it up and now withdraw any suggestion that it’s a model worth replicating. Sorry. My bad. They sound like a McCarthyist bunch of twerps and scaremongering lunatics. I wasn’t kidding when I said I didn’t know anything about them before! Sorry, again.

            “Those religious crackpots include some of the most noxious, dangerous & violent members of your society and their views far outstrip their numbers in influence. But you somehow neglected that little fact.”

            Agreed, but I didn’t neglect this fact, I took it as read, just as I expect you to take it as read that within Gaza there is a minority that includes “some of the most noxious, dangerous & violent members of society and their views far outstrip their numbers in influence.” I try not to dwell on the intransigent elements of the conflict, preferring to focus on the parts that are willing to and will have to change to achieve peace. I feel that you prefer to draw attention to the intransigence which sometimes acts to the detriment of mutual understanding and progress.

            I think you’ve probably heard enough from me so I’ll stop posting on this thread for now. I don’t think my initial point about Israeli PR in Haiti has found any traction which is fair enough, but I have still been surprised at the hostility here towards me and the assumptions made about me.

            This is an aggressive board where I have been painted more than once as something I’m not – part of a larger hasbara effort and a puppet of the Israeli government. When responding in kind I have been called obnoxious an condescending.

            Richard I used the word Palestinians when I was speaking about families, work and holidays. You switched to Gazans in your response which was took my sophistry and squared it. I have no problem with you calling me out on my over-simplifications if you are willing to accept the same.

            When I say that Israel’s hasbara efforts have nothing to do with me. I mean that I have no stake in them personally and that I do not believe they are of the slightest importance in the resolution of this conflict. You feel compelled to comment on how Israel goes about its business outside of the Middle East as if you think this somehow makes our treatment of Gazans worse? If Israel hadn’t sent a press delegation to Haiti, would you think we were behaving better? Connecting the two is meaningless. It’s meaningless even if that’s what my government was trying to do and it’s meaningless for you to carp on about it.

            Richard, I submit to you that this whole article on the Zionization of disaster relief is sophistry. Whatever Israel did or didn’t tell the world about its doctors in Haiti has zero impact on the lives of Palestinians in Gaza and elsewhere. YOU are the one who has tried to connect the two instead of remaining focused on ending the occupation through negotiation and other means. I think it’s argumentative and unhelpful to decry the Israeli mission to Haiti. It has nothing to do with Gaza despite any intentions you believe the Israeli government had.

            It’s as daft as criticizing state-sponsored cancer research in the UK because the same government engaged in an illegal war in Iraq.

            Stop looking for new things to be angry with my government about. There are plenty of things here already. Let’s work together to resolve them rather than constantly starting new fights over nothing.

          21. Last thing, I promise:

            “They just make you look like a dumb thug”

            This is a serious violation of my comment rules. Yr future comments will be moderated. Read the rules & respect them or you will have consequences.

            “I know you will think I’m being condescending again”

            No, more like fucking obnoxious.

            Just for future reference, I can’t tell someone that saying Zionists control the media makes them look like a dumb thug, but you can call me “fucking obnoxious”. I didn’t find any of that in your board rules.

          22. Here’s one of my rules. If a commenter behaves in an obnoxious way, they will be treated the way they treat others. So if you call someone a dumb thug then yes, no one will feel they need to be particularly repsectful to you. If you can argue & debate w/o using such terms then such terms will not be used toward you. And if you object to words used against you let me know & I will listen and intercede if I feel it is warranted.

          23. Someone writing that Jews control the media

            She wrote that Jews “control or influence” the media. Why do you conveniently ellide what she really said? I have publicly disagreed w. the single objetionable word she used. But you have used far more objectionable words than she is abusing her. If you persist in doing this or needing to “call it as you see it” using such epithets you won’t be doing it here.

            It is dumb and thuggish to do so

            I’ve already told you that this is an unacceptable term to use here esp. in this particular context which did not at all warrant it. I regretfully will ban you. I’m sorry to do this because at least 50% of what you write was seriously worth addressing even if I disagreed. But I have comment rules for a reason & no one gets to violate them serially & remain. If you feel you can adhere to these rules you can write to me privately saying so & I will consider reinstating you. If not, you dug your own ditch here & now you’re in it.

            I had to offer arguments you could be proud of

            What a dumb distortion. You can’t use abusive language against others here. Calling Mary a “dumb thug” is abusive. You did it twice. That’s a far cry fr. what you claim. I don’t care how you argue with Mary or what you say as long as you don’t abuse her. I’ve written this to left-wingers & right wingers. And now you.

            this whole board is predicated on criticizing the behavior of Israelis,

            That’s how you would characterize it. But that’s neither accurate nor truthful. This blog analyzes the Israeli-Arab conflict. Period. I don’t criticize Israelis here. I criticize Israeli policy & those who make it. You prob. don’t understand the distinction because you’re a willful propagandist who only hears what he wants to hear & disregards or distorts whatever is inconvenient to your argument. And you better, if you want to return, be more precise in characterizing what I & others say. I don’t like exaggeration or distortion in conveying the words or ideas of opponents.

            You switched to Gazans in your response which was took my sophistry and squared it.

            So when you referred to “Palestinians” you were excluding the 1.5 million Palestinians who are Gazan?? If so, why would you do that? And if they are Palestinian then why can’t I amend the terms since they constitute a significant number of those who are Palestinian? Is it an “oversimplification” to call Gazans Palestinians??

            I do not believe they are of the slightest importance in the resolution of this conflict.

            So then you’re claiming that your own gov’t is wasting the tens of millions of shekels it spends annually (or your taxpayer money btw) on hasbara because this won’t have anything to do w. resolving or not resolving the conflict?

          24. As I said in my previous response to Daniel, I did NOT say that Jews control the news media, nor was that what I intended to say. If he would care to find in any of my comments that I had said this, he should quote me directly by copying and pasting from my original comment.

            I do NOT believe that “Jews control the media” and it is NOT in any of my comments.

          25. Bryan, you really are amazing. I’m not sure just how I’m going to word this, but I’m going to try my best to convey just how utterly flabbergasted, appalled and shocked I am by what you have said here.

            “As for the Israelis testing their weapons in Lebanon and Gaza: that’s what happens in war. If you have weapons you’ve only ever used in peacetime tests, you have to test them to see if they’re practical for use in war, especially if those weapons can save your soldiers’ lives or more accurately target combatants. Weapons development these days isn’t about killing more people faster: it’s about killing the right people with fewer casualties on both sides.”

            What you have said is that Israel is testing its weapons on its victims, and what is so horrifying about this remark is the rather cavalier way you’ve tossed it into the discussion. Considering that most of Israel’s war victims are innocent civilians, the fact that they have also been used as guinea pigs for the IDF’s ingenious new ways to kill Palestinians and Lebanese people is beyond the pale. It’s beyond grotesque, especially when you bear in mind that these weapons include flechettes, DIME, chemical weapons and weapons containing partially depleted uranium.

            Yeah, I’m sure helping earthquake victims will sharpen the skills of their medical corp. But they could have learned the same lessons a lot sooner, and a lot closer to home, if they’d troubled themselves to dig the Gazan civilians they murdered out of the rubble of bombed houses and schools.

          26. Mary, please, I think you are overwrought. Now, calm down, take a few deep breaths, and try to be reasonable and rational. I am absolutely certain that Bryan, being a rational, fair-minded person, would equally defend Lebanon, or Iran, or any other country if they decided to give their weapons a good old test run in Israel. He obviously understands the principles behind the in vivo testing of weaponry, and I am sure he understands perfectly that if Iran, for example, wants to make absolutely sure it can adequately defend itself against Israeli attack, particularly given the very clear and unequivocal threats that Israel has been issuing on a regular basis, it has no choice but to test its weapons on Israelis. You need to be at least as fair and reasonable as Bryan is, so I urge you to reconsider your criticism of him. I cannot imagine him being upset over such a normal thing as Iran trying out its latest weapons for a few weeks on, say Tel Aviv, or Ramat Gan, can you? He appreciates the invaluable data Iran would gain from such testing, and the improvements it could make in its defense systems based on those data.

            Mary, with all due respect, Bryan is obviously not biased or one-sided, and you are not looking very even-handed by comparison!

          27. Actually, I hate to say this but I think that Iran tests its most sophisticated weapons in proxy warfare as well. That’s how they (or Hezbollah?) put a big ol’ hole in that Israeli frigate during the Lebanon war.

          28. Ah, but your analogy is really very poor. That frigate was engaged in the attack on Lebanon, and putting a big ol’ hole in it was a perfectly justifiable act of defence. Now, if Iran (or Hezballah) had put a big ol’ hole in an Israeli frigate that was just hanging around in Israeli – or international – waters not bothering anyone, you might have a point.

          29. I didn’t mean to say the resistance wasn’t legitimate. I only meant to say that Iran was using the Lebanon war as a means of testing their own advanced weapons. My feeling is that if the U.S. & Israel are going to collude in allowing Israel to test DIME & other advanced forms of American lethality in an Israeli war theater, then Iran has every right to do the same.

            I don’t like either one doing it, but if I had to say which one’s weapons were far more lethal it would be the U.S. weapons Israel tested.

          30. Shirin, thanks for setting me straight. Whew! How silly of me, to think that the decency inherent in weapons testing is the exclusive domain of the “most moral army in the world.” I’m sure Bryan would agree that other countries, including Iran, should be as concerned about making sure they kill their victims effectively, as Israel does.

      2. OMG! “China Daily,” China’s global newspaper, has online articles praising the wonderful job China is doing in Haiti.
        http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/haitiearthquake/2010-01/20/content_9350783.htm

        “Chinese rescue teams working in Haiti were also recognized for being “remarkably efficient” by the UN.”

        “David Wimhurst, communications director for the UN Stabilization Mission in Haiti, gave a special recognition to Chinese rescue teams, saying they were ‘remarkably efficient.’

        ‘It was thanks to them that we were able to make such a progress on our buildings,” he said. “We thank China for the very generous, quick and remarkable expertise and help in this terrible tragedy.’ ”

        There are several articles. Here’s a quote from one article: “The world has been impressed with China’s instant launching of a disaster relief effort and sending of its rescue team right after a strong quake rocked Haiti. Some foreign news agencies, including the AFP, reported that it was the Chinese rescuers, not the Americans, who were among the first relief personnel to arrive in the Caribbean country, even though China is farther away from Haiti than the US.” The article goes on to complain about America’s PR motives, etc. (I guess whoever you don’t like, you queston their motives), and asks, “…what did the US actually do?” (Implying that the US did nothing?) The 60 people from China have done the most of any country. Who knew?

        I’m so appalled. From these articles, I’m beginning to wonder if China is doing all this for PR and good will among the nations, given China’s reputation for lack of freedom and all. So it’s not what China is doing that I don’t like, it’s China’s motives–trying to distract us from China’s occupation and oppression of Tibet. Instead of sending aid across the world to Haiti, China should provide aid for its neighbors and stop looking for PR opportunities.

        But here’s the worst part: China violated Professor Yoel Donchin’s rules about not being one of the first countries to rush in after a natural disaster. China should have sent a small team to evaluate Haiti’s needs first and only then should they have sent rescue teams and medical staff. Of course, there would have been more deaths by then, but that’s not consequential.

        Here’s what’s consequential: China did it all wrong (by moving too quickly) and for the wrong reasons (PR motives).

        1. You still don’t get it Cociella, do you: We normal people think China’s boasting is just as disgusting as Israel’s.

          1. Elizabeth, what other countries do normal people think are disgusting for their boasting? Canada, India, Russia, Kuwait, Brazil, and of course the US all have newspapers online and videos that feature what their countries are doing to help in Haiti, as do many other countries. None of these countries are helping out quietly; they all want everyone to know.

          2. Dear Jania Cociella: Learn how to spell my name correctly FOR ONCE, and I may even answer you…

        2. There are also videos made by China to show the wonderful job the Chinese rescue workers are doing.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl-wB3NJenc

          And darn if those rescue workers don’t have CHINA on their backs in large letters for all to see.

          And how is it that China managed to get through the bottleneck and arrive in Haiti before the Americans? “Could it be? Nah, I didn’t think so.”

          Oh, this makes me so mad at China’s government–bragging in their newspapers about how they got there before the US (violating Professor Donchin’s rules about not competing to be the first) and exhibiting “CHINA” on the backs of their aid workers for PR purposes. I will donate nothing to China.

          1. More verbal diarrhea from Cociella: Again: We normal people think China’s boasting is just as disgusting as Israel’s.

  8. Donchin’s piece is an interesting one, but I don’t like the implications of his (or your) argument.

    Are you suggesting that Israel was wrong to send out the relief it has?

    So Israel may have had more than one motivation in assisting the needy in Haiti: the same can probably be said for most countries engaged in humanitarian relief there. And sure, perhaps they could have been more helpful by sending different resources. I can accept those points. But
    they don’t seem to me to be the most important point, which is that in a effort that goes far beyond that of most other countries, Israel’s efforts have helped people in need. For that they ought to be applauded.

    1. So Israel may have had more than one motivation in assisting the needy in Haiti

      No, not really more than one. Pretty much one alone–at least fr. the gov’t’s pt of view.

      For that they ought to be applauded.

      Which you have. I see it differently & I’ll continue criticizing it until/unless they get it right.

    2. As for me, I’ll applaud Israel when they lift the blockade on Gaza and end the occupation. Until then, any “humanitarian aid” they give anybody is completely bogus and self-aggrandizing.

  9. RE: “THE ZIONIZATION OF DISASTER RELIEF”
    SEE ALSO: Israel’s compassion in Haiti can’t hide our ugly face in Gaza, By Akiva Eldar, HAARETZ, 01/18/10

    A great, impassioned op-ed piece in Haaretz about the limits of compassion in Israel, which has sent scores of rescuers to the victims of the natural disaster in Haiti, but remains indifferent to the man-made suffering an hour away in Gaza.

    “The disaster in Haiti is a natural one; the one in Gaza is the unproud handiwork of man. Our handiwork… How many Israelis know that half of all Gazans are dependent on charity, that Operation Cast Lead created hundreds of amputees, that raw sewage flows from the streets into the sea?” – Akiva Eldar

    ELDAR IN HAARETZ – http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1143313.html

  10. Great column. It is my belief that Israel has landed on Haiti to exploit its natural resources and establish colonies. Richard, I laud you on trying to get Israel to do the right thing. It will never happen. That is why it is time for all progressives, including you, to formally commit to the BDS movement. Criticizing Israel will never change its behavior because it cannot be changed. We must work to restore Palestine to the Palestinians. Hope you will join us

    1. This won’t totally satisfy you but I will be leading a panel on media reporting of the Israeli Palestinian conflict at the Seattle Sabeel conference. Neve Gordon will also attend this conference & hold a debate on BDS with Gad Barzilai. It should be interesting.

  11. Haitians are lucky Haiti isn’t next to Israel, or Israel would deem them the seething, angry, vengeance-ridden savages and test their weapons on them.

  12. Ah, there seems to be a bit of a miscommunication. Mary and Shirin seem to be under the impression that I am defending the hypothetical situation in which Israel would go to war just to test weapons (i.e. without a legitimate casus belli and for the express purpose of experimenting with weapons). I was actually trying to say that, if Israel has to go to war, then using weapons previous untested in wartime is a fully legitimate act for the Tzahal.

    I never said I wasn’t one-sided. I want Israel to live in and peace and security, and if its neighbours can’t accept that, then they need to be beaten into submission, as history has shown is the proven method of defeating a belligerent, violent foe.

    1. Ah, there seems to be a bit of a miscommunication

      I’m glad that you cleared that up. Now I can rest easy knowing you didn’t mean Israel should actually start a war in order to make dead guinea pigs of Lebanese & Gazans; but rather that it should exploit the opportunity presented by a convenient war in order to create dead guinea pigs. Phew! For a moment there I thought you were a heartless, bloodthirsty lout.

      I was actually trying to say that, if Israel has to go to war

      But Israel DIDN’T have to go to war. It provoked the war. Or did you somehow miss that in Hasbara 101 wherever you took the course?

      I never said I wasn’t one-sided. I want Israel to live in and peace and security, and if its neighbours can’t accept that, then they need to be beaten into submission, as history has shown is the proven method of defeating a belligerent, violent foe.

      Whadaya know–Zeev Jabotinsky come back fr the dead. Welcome back, Zeev. We missed ya. Haven’t had anybody this bloodthirsty since Rabbi Meir K.

      Advocating beating Arabs into submission is a BIG violation of my comment rules. Go read them if you want to continue posting here. We don’t support killing Arabs or Jews here. If you do, you belong somewhere else.

      1. “Advocating beating Arabs into submission is a BIG violation of my comment rules. Go read them if you want to continue posting here. We don’t support killing Arabs or Jews here. If you do, you belong somewhere else.”

        He wrote: “I want Israel to live in and peace and security, and IF ITS NEIGHBOURS CAN’T ACCEPT THAT, then they need to be beaten into submission, as history has shown is the proven method of defeating a belligerent, violent foe.”

        Try reading what he actually wrote.

    2. if [Israel’s] neighbours can’t accept that, then they need to be beaten into submission, as history has shown is the proven method of defeating a belligerent, violent foe.

      Is that what history has shown? Hmmmmmm. So, how’s that been workin’ out for Israel for the last 60 + years? Not beaten into submission yet, are they? So, how long has history shown that this proven method is supposed to take?

      1. Not only are they not beaten into submission, but they are the most amazing, loving, kind people on earth; the Palestinians are the best of human nature, and I say this from my person experience of knowing so many of them. I may come off sometimes as rabidly furious at people who make critical comments about the Palestinians, but those remarks are as offensive to me as if they were made to my own children. To not bother to know the Palestinians, to categorize and dehumanize them, is to lose out on something truly amazing. I don’t speak for them as some bored liberal reading too many news stories; I know them personally. And the Gazans, under siege and struggling to survive every day? A Palestinian friend, living in the West Bank, described them to me just last night as “the jewels of Palestine.”

        It makes me wonder how such a comment from anyone on this thread could be tolerated, except to excuse the ignorance of the one posting the comment.

        1. I am of the opinion that canonizing an entire people is just as bad as demonizing it. In either case, you are not treating people as individuals, but making a diverse group of individuals into a monolithic, one-dimensional cardboard cutout of a nation. In fact, treating them as if they are all saints is indeed categorizing and dehumanizing them, because humans are flawed.

          If I said, “the Swiss are the most racist people I ever met,” or “the Russians are the cruelest and most inhuman people on this Earth,” I would be rightfully scorned for making baseless generalizations. Why should this not be applied to making positive generalizations?

          There are many good and kind Palestinians, but there are many violent and belligerent ones as well–unfortunately for everyone, most of all the Palestinians, these men have found their way into the Palestinian Authority and the ruling elite of Hamas. The good and kind Palestinians should undertake programs of nonviolent resistance against the corruption of their government and take charge of their own destiny; were this to happen, everyone would benefit.

          1. Nothing more nauseating than a warm fuzzy from a Zionist. Of course the trouble with Palestinian society is all on their corrupt leadership. It has nothing to do with mass forced expulsions, displacement and land confiscation, or say, invasions, sniper shooting and aerial bombings. You may like to think you’re not a racist but the racist persecution of the Palestinians by Israel doesn’t seem to factor with you. Maybe because it results in something you want.

          2. I’m not an idiot; I do not categorize any people, but the sad thing is that it seems many pro-Israelis do. I have met up with quite a few who vilify all Palestinians because of the actions of a few. These pro-Israelis forget that the Zionists are the occupiers and oppressors of these people, and yet they expect the occupied people to be compliant, passive, docile and nonresisting.

            Your ideas of the Palestinian government come from your own narrow view of Palestinians and the occupation. Read my lips: End the occupation. It is not up to the Palestinians to be good and kind and take up “programs of nonviolent resistance against the corruption of their government,” it is up to the Israelis to stop interfering in Palestinian affairs. The people the Palestinians should be rightly resisting is the Israeli government, not their own leaders. You apparently play along with the Zionist scheme to divide and conquer, and so you encourage division among Palestinians and wish for them to turn on their leaders and embrace the ideology of their occupiers.

            What I said about the Palestinians is my own perspective, and was meant as such. Anyone reading my comment would have understood that. You chose to make an issue of it, which was completely unnecessary. And since you brought it up, I could give you a nice long list of belligerent Israeli leaders whose violence leaves Hamas in the dust.

  13. It might be apt to compare pictures of two babies:

    http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100121/capt.64d661f7269f4071ae1a0d6a9006bec8.haiti_earthquake_ny176.jpg
    In this photo provided by Joe Shalmoni, a newborn Haitian baby lies in an incubator at the Israel Defense Forces operational field hospital in Port-au-Prince, Haiti on Wednesday Jan. 20, 2010.

    But Kaukab al Dayah got very different treatment in Gaza:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vjJ5fOtvksM/SWYvR4IFthI/AAAAAAAAAAU/AcXQzvRoxsw/S1600-R/headline9637e7.jpg

    And just how many premature babies have been allowed through to specialist Israeli hospitals?

  14. Richard, I hope you will take Neve’s side and send Barzilai packing. At this point the only thing that israel can do to gain moral stature is for israelis to return back to Europe and allow the Palestinians the right of return. Until then israel will be rightfully the target of the worlds opprobium

    1. I actually respect both of them though my sympathies are with Neve’s political position.

      Your idiotic & offensive comment about Jews returning to Europe violates my comment rules & you should read them if you wish to continue commenting here. The Right of Return has nothing to do w. Jews returning to Europe.

  15. Richard, with all due respect, sending a planeload of porta-potties instead of the hospital would probably have cost hundreds of Haitian lives.

    For days, Israelis acted as the referral hospital for the most seriously ill/injured patients. The PAHO – the regional WHO branch – specifically called out this fact in its Jan 18 status report. This wasn’t Israel, and it wasn’t the media, identifying the Israeli hospital as unique; it was the group coordinating the “health cluster” in Haiti.

    The Israelis took the patients that other hospitals could not handle. The Israelis, and later some southern California doctors, successfully treated over 300 of these people – hundreds of ordinary people who would likely be dead (or very close) if the Israelis had sent a planeload of toilets instead.

    There are a lot of countries in the western hemisphere, including the Dominical Republic, that could have sent toilets to Haiti; but very few countries in the world could have provided the medical aid that the Israelis sent; and in the final analysis, nobody else managed to provide that assistance.

    As for the media, there was a reason why the media kept mentioning the Israeli facility. When they talked to doctors at other hospitals, these other doctors were sending their toughest cases to the Israelis. So of course the media wanted to visit the Israeli facility. If you provide a unique service, you may become a news story. It’s that simple.

    As for *seeking* publicity, it’s clear that The Israeli foreign ministry didn’t prioritize putting out a media story. The media weren’t crowding around foreign ministry spokesmen or Israeli cabinet ministers. They were talking to doctors in a tent hospital.

    Was there anyone who DID put effort into seeking attention during the crisis? Well, President Obama “sought media attention” in conjunction with the quake, and the US “sought media attention” by sending assistance. So did other countries. Mexican rescuers were on the air a lot for a while; I guess we should blame them, too, for seeking attention. Hugo Chavez DEFINITELY sought media attention by attacking the Americans for “occupying Haiti.” The French government sniped at the Americans. Attention-seekers and finger-pointers! Pat Robertson sought attention (shudder).

    The Saudis didn’t “seek attention”, in the sense that they have not sent even $0.01 of aid. Are you happy with their response? Would that have been a better response?

    As for the idea that the Israelis were “testing” their techniques, that’s simply rubbish. These were professional surgeons, doctors, nurses. They have been practicing medicine, both in hospitals and in field facilities, for decades. They were out there saving lives, in accordance with their extensive training and long experience.

    What Israel learns from these disasters is not how doctors should treat patients, but rather what kinds of problems arise after large-scale disasters in which lots of civilians are killed and massive destruction occurs.

    Thanks.

    1. I want to let my readers know that this post has generated enormous media buzz. And apparently either the IDF or MFA or other Israeli online advocates has taken notice of the huge traffic level generated by it. Thus we find an unusual spike in pro-Israel hasbara activity (as noted in Zvi’s comment). And if you follow these comments you’ll notice that they repeat pts fr. comment to comment made by diff. hasbarists. Interesting development.

      hundreds of ordinary people who would likely be dead (or very close) if the Israelis had sent a planeload of toilets instead.

      This is a disingenous response. First, why did the Israeli operation need to bring with it an entire public relations team along w. full complement of reporters, video equipment for remote TV feeds, etc. Which other nation’s emergency response team included anything remotely like this? And couldn’t all the space taken up by this totally extraneous detritus been used to bring equipment that could’ve prevented tens of thousands of Haitians fr. developing dangerous & contagious ailements like dysentery & cholera? And why is a country 5,000 miles away the first to establish a field hospital when the U.S. has far more such facilities & is far closer? And don’t tell me this wasn’t arranged on Israel’s behalf. But even if it wasn’t Israel’s behavior was shameless enough w/o such subterfuge.

      But thanks for yr hasbara efforts. Can you tell us a bit about who you represent, your professional affiliation. You clearly fr. yr level of knowledge have some ulterior motive in coming here & in the interests of transparency I always like to put my own & others’ cards on the table. Care to show yours?

      Dominical Republic, that could have sent toilets to Haiti

      DR may be the 2nd poorest country on earth. Can you tell me where in that country anyone would find a toilet of any kind let alone portable toilets in sufficient numbers to aid 1/3 of Haiti left homeless (& without proper sanitation)?

      nobody else managed to provide that assistance.

      Once again, you’re not reading carefully. DWB had a field hospital in the air waiting to land & was refused permission THREE TIMES. DWB managed. The US military turned them away. Perhaps the military wanted to allow Israel to get more media credit before allowing the real NGOs like DWB which own the issue of humanitarian relief to set up their own hospital.

      there was a reason why the media kept mentioning the Israeli facility.

      More disingenuousness. If that were the case, then what was the full IDF PR team doing? Twiddling its thumbs or thinking up properly patriotic names for all the Haitian babies born at the Israeli field hospital. You & I both know that the reason media gravitated to the Israeli operation was a phalanx of PR flacks pointed them there. The country was in a shambles. Media were looking for a heartwarming story & the Israeli PR specialists had the goods for them. You can natter on all day about how the good doctors of Haiti held the Israelis in such admiration that they turned the media onto the Israeli field operation out of the goodness of their hearts. But I’ve learned that with the IDF & MFA there’s always an angle & it’s usually a cynical one. Haiti is no diff. I’m sorry to say.

      They were talking to doctors in a tent hospital.

      What nonsense. The media were directed to the Israeli doctors by IDF public affairs teams which accompanied the entire operation.

      President Obama “sought media attention” in conjunction with the quake

      Not exactly. If he was as desperate as the IDF to score pts on behalf of the U.S. he would’ve sent precisely the type of U.S. State Dept. media team that Israel sent. But he didn’t. And the U.S. sent assistance not in order to burnish its image, but in order to help a neighbor in desperate need.

      The Saudis didn’t “seek attention”, in the sense that they have not sent even $0.01 of aid. Are you happy with their response?

      Why am I not surprised that this has turned into a bash the Arabs comment?? First, the Saudis aren’t known for having emergency medical teams. Second, they’re more than 5,000 miles away from Haiti. Third, Saudis prob. like blacks as much as most Israeli Jews like Arabs. Fourth, Saudis being mainly devout Muslims are more attuned to helping fellow Muslims. But I wonder why you pick on Saudi Arabia? Why would that be?

      the idea that the Israelis were “testing” their techniques, that’s simply rubbish.

      Then why did they need remote video feeds back to medical staff in Israel?? I didn’t make it up fella. It was in a quite credible media source. But I don’t believe you’re a disinterested party either so yr opinion doesn’t count for much.

      What Israel learns from these disasters is not how doctors should treat patients, but rather what kinds of problems arise after large-scale disasters in which lots of civilians are killed and massive destruction occurs.

      Then I imagine Israel would want to use this expertise when its own military causes “large scale disasters in which lots of Arabs civilians are killed & massive destruction occurs.” What’s that you say? Not so much interest in helping Lebanese & Palestinians? How disappointing that you & the IDF are utter hypocrites.

  16. I was nauseated a couple of days ago while watching THE VIEW, when Barbara Walters referred to: “Several countries that have given aid in Haiti, NOTABLY ISRAEL.”

    The L,A. Times did a piece in which it singled out Israel, as if its help were the only one that counts.

    Clearly this pandering to Israel is the result of lobbying on the part of Israel, which a year after its savage attack on Palestinians, including babies and children, in Gaza, needs is desperate to repair its severeiy tarnished image.

    1. Israel saves lives and you get nauseated. So sorry about that.

      Did you know that the U.S. and its allies have killed a far higher percentage of civilians in Gaza and in Afghanistan? I don’t know if that nauseats you. Are you aware of the ratios? In just five days in September 2008, over 500 civilians were killed by US-led troops. Savage? Nauseating?

      What about the image of NATO when it bombed Kosovo, killing 200 of the Albanian civilians NATO was there to protect? What about the Serbian civilian deaths? Bombings took place from high up so NATO soldiers would not be killed–at the expense of civilians on the ground. Is NATO’s image tarnished? Was this savage? Nauseating?

      1. the U.S. and its allies have killed a far higher percentage of civilians in Gaza…

        You’re now being moderated, dear Jania. If you continue flaunting such blatant fictions you’ll be banned. You know this is a preposterous statement. I’m beginning to feel sorry for you.

        1. It’s kind of interesting, though, that line of defense. Years ago Israel and the US were generally portrayed by hasbarists as standing side-by-side against the communist/Arab menace, or later, the Islamist/Arab menace. Nowadays if you criticize Israeli war crimes or mention the nakba some hasbarist might well bring up American war crimes or our ethnic cleansing of the Native Americans. I’m not sure what the reasoning is behind this particular line of defense. Are we supposed to think American crimes justify Israeli crimes?

  17. Being near a geologic fault line, I certainly hope that western California is never hit with a catatrophic earthquake.

    But if it ever happened, in the interest of true tikun olam, and in keeping with his apparent position, please remind me to first send a toilet for Mr. Silverstein.

    (I’ll save the medicines, field hospitals, doctors, nurses, seach and resuce crews for those less worthy of a toilet!)

    1. Thanks for yr concern, but in the event of an earthquake in California (where btw they generally don’t use terms like western California, but then again you wouldn’t know that) I’ll be quite far away & unaffected. But thanks again. Instead of being snarky & hopelessly juvenile you might want to actually make a contribution to Doctors Without Border so real live suffering Haitians can have portable toilets, prevent massive outbreaks of cholera & generally benefit fr. yr largess.

      1. FYI. The organization is Doctors Without Borders (with an “s” at the end). You should have known that it you actually made a donation to that organization at any time, as I have.

        I hope my donation did not go for toilets!

        As for your criticism of my wording “western California” at least I am honest in not using ficticious names for geographic areas like some others do when referring to citiies that never existed in human history such as “East Jerusalem” when referring to eastern Jerusalem. (Historical revisionism is not in keeping with honesty, which is basic to tikun olam.)

        1. East Jerusalem is a fictitious name? Wikipedia doesn’t think so nor do the tens of thousands of online references found in a Google search. It is not a city as you say. But a part of a city. To be precise the eastern part of Jerusalem. The Jewish part of Jerusalem is known as West Jerusalem. So why do you deny the Arabs who live in East Jerusalem a designation that you grant the Jews???

          1. The Jewish part of Jerusalem is known as Jerusalem. So too is the eastern part of Jerusalem. It’s all Jerusalem.

            Jerusalem is one city and it always has been.

          2. Bullcrap. I’ve lived in Jerusalem & speak Hebrew fluently. You can’t piss on my back & make me think it’s rain. Say what you want. The rest of us know the truth. The Jewish area is West Jerusalem, the Arab is East Jerusalem. What you’re claiming is the equivalent of saying there is no such thing as East L.A. (where mainly blacks and Hispanics live) or West L.A. (where mainly wealthy Anglos live). It’s all one city: L.A. We know that’s crap. But you rest comfortable in yr little soothing rightist lullaby.

            you are not treating people as individuals, but making a diverse group of individuals into a monolithic, one-dimensional cardboard cutout…

            Uh, isn’t that what you just did with Jerusalem neglecting the fact that there is a diverse group of individuals & ethnic groups in the city??

            Why should this not be applied to making positive generalizations?

            I have no idea what this means.

            there are many violent and belligerent ones as well–unfortunately for everyone, most of all the Palestinians, these men have found their way into the Palestinian Authority and the ruling elite of Hamas

            I see. No good or kind Palestinian leaders. And you know this how? How many Palestinians leaders or man in the street Palestinians have you actually met? E-mailed? How many books have you read about Palestinians (not including hasbarist or anti-Palestinian propaganda)? Just as I thought. When you actually know something about real Palestinians can you come back? Until then you’re gornisht boychik. Look it up.

          3. I have never heard anyone say West L.A. or East L.A., despite knowing several people who live there. When I ask them where they are from, they say, to a man, “Los Angeles.” West L.A. and East L.A. are merely geographic distinctions. They do not denote separate cities.

            Saying that Jerusalem is a single city (with multiple diverse neighborhoods) is totally different from asserting that calling every Palestinian saintly is a broad generalization. Boston, for example, is a city with many diverse neighborhoods, but nobody would argue that South Boston is a different city from the North End, despite their different ethnic character. They are both integral parts of the City of Boston. Similarly, the overwhelmingly Jewish western part of Jerusalem and the Muslim parts of eastern Jerusalem are very different neighborhoods of the same contiguous city.

            My point about generalizations was that since broadly stereotyping a people in negative way is universally acknowledged as unacceptable in an academic debate, broadly stereotyping a people in a positive light should be accordingly ignored.

            I didn’t say that there were no good or kind Palestinian leaders, merely that many of the violent and belligerent Palestinians have found their way into the leadership. I don’t claim to be an expert on Palestinians, but much of what I have read (on both sides of the issue) never calls the Palestinian leaders “kind” or “good” in the context of leadership; merely that they were, at best, forced into violence by oppression. I believe Jimmy Carter describes Yasser Arafat playing with his grandchild with glee, but that seems tangential to his actions as leader of the Palestinians. However, I would welcome any description of Palestinian leaders who are kind and good, and if they are truly so, then I really do hope for their success.

            By the way, I understand Yiddish pretty well, so you needn’t tell me in the future to look up Yiddish expressions.

          4. I have never heard anyone say West L.A. or East L.A

            Then you never lived there as I did for many yrs. as you also have never lived in Jerusalem. For if you’d lived in either place you’d know that the residents refer to their cities in those terms & the rest of the world does too (minus you of course).

            Pls. don’t be obtuse. Again, I’m not arguing that East & West Jerusalem are separate cities. They are one city that will be shared by two peoples. I know it’ll kill ya. But there you go. Die if you have to but Jerusalem will be a capital for two peoples. BTW, Jerusalem is in effect two cities. Jews don’t generally set foot in Arab neighborhoods and vice versa. The municipality has orphaned the Arab sector which receives essentially no services & is left to fend for itself If you don’t believe me you should read Gershom Gorenberg in American Prospect (he lives there btw as, if I recall, you do not).

            I didn’t say that there were no good or kind Palestinian leaders

            Uh, yes you did. You said that the bad Palestinians were the leaders of the PA and Hamas. The good Palestinians weren’t I presume.

            I don’t claim to be an expert on Palestinians

            Hosannah, true at last, true at last, thank God almighty you said something true at last!

            I would welcome any description of Palestinian leaders who are kind and good

            While it’s not my job to be yr tutor, you should read books, many books. Lawrence of Cyberia has a very useful set of biographical essays on major Palestinian leaders. You can start there. Then come back & I’ll recommend some other books you can read–that’s if you’re serious.

          5. “I have never heard anyone say West L.A. or East L.A., despite knowing several people who live there. When I ask them where they are from, they say, to a man, “Los Angeles.” West L.A. and East L.A. are merely geographic distinctions. They do not denote separate cities.”

            OH MY GOD can someone be this obtuse. East LA has been used for AGES as the “PC” term for what locals call “the Barrio”.

          6. Anyone who comes out with “JERUSALEM HAS ALWAYS BEN ONE!!1!!ONE” has pretty much outed himself as an easily-ignorable RZ type.

            Political reality will never overcome ideology for these people.

  18. Again this blog and the comments wander between fact and fiction.
    According to this:
    http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/21/haiti-howto-set-up-a.html

    “The first shipment left Bordeaux, France, last Friday morning and was supposed to land in Port-au-Prince on Saturday, but after one and a half hours flying around Port-au-Prince, we were diverted to another site on the eastern side of the island, in the Dominican Republic.”

    The MSF field hospital was only shipped last Friday when the Israeli and other field hospitals were already on the ground. The Israeli field hospital arrived in Haiti Friday afternoon.

    The US military has brought the airport capacity up from 25 planes a day to 140 planes per day and fixed the port and road to it amazingly fast. It also had to prioritize the flights and Israel’s field hospital and search team and supplies planes were probably rightly prioritized.

    While I applaud MSF for the good work they’re doing there’s just no way they, or other NGOs, can deal with a disaster of this magnitude. Their criticism is selfish. What the US doing is huge. What Israel is doing (for whatever motive) is admirable for a country of that size but frankly what I would expect every country to do (unfortunately most do not meet my expectations). Their critics should be ashamed of putting their political agenda ahead of the Haiti people.

    1. Also typical to this blog the comments end up not in order by some voodoo magic.

      Here’s a reference to the good work the US has done on the airport/sea port:
      http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/21/haiti.earthquake/

      It’s also interesting to note that for the most part the Zionization of the Disaster Relief is performed by critics of Israel. Everybody on the ground in Haiti is doing some PR including MSF, the US, CNN. It’s somewhat in poor taste but if they’re helping people who desperately need help right now (e.g. the CNN Doctor) I’ll look the other way as to how tasteful the PR they get from it is.

      Also given that the MSF is sending a field hospital and not toilets the argument that Israel should have sent toilets is a bit funny. You handle these things by time and priority. The first priority is search and rescue (and drinking water), followed by medical treatment, followed by hygine considerations, rebuilding effort, food etc.

      1. Everybody on the ground in Haiti is doing some PR including MSF, the US, CNN

        Prove it. Let’s compare how many Israeli PR flacks are in Haiti compared to the US or MSF. Since you made the claim, you do the research & if I’m wrong I’ll be happy to acknowledge it.

        given that the MSF is sending a field hospital and not toilets

        That’s completely unsubstantiated. I’d challenge you as I did Janica to contact MSF & ask them if they have portable toilets in Haiti now or have brought any in. Go ahead. Again, if I’m wrong (& I know I’m not) I’ll freely acknowledge it.

        The first priority is search and rescue

        WRONG. Very few people relatively are saved by search & rescue esp. after 48 hrs. So the vastly overwhelming priority is helping the survivors & not S&R.

        1. The questions is not if they have some portable toilets but do they have enough toilets for the *millions* of people that need them and are toilets a higher priority than field hospitals, medical supplies and (initially search and rescue). If getting a toilet for everyone is a higher priority than medical care and supplies why isn’t every plane landing there carrying toilets? You’d think you need a large number of toilets and they’re not small.

          Anyways, what can I say, we can forget about any other disaster help and just stock toilets. Problem solved. Every MSF press release talks about medical supplies and field hospitals so I guess they haven’t heard about this magic solution yet.

          The original author of the article you’ve posted is a medical doctor. With all due respect to his medical contribution to other Israeli rescue missions he is clearly not an expert in logistics, earthquakes or managing this sort of huge natural disasters.

          Anyone who has been following the news at all can clearly see the important of providing medical care to the injured who would die without that care. People have survived for millions of years without portable toilets but someone with an infection or a crushed limb will die if they do not receive treatment. Hence medical treatment is definitely a priority and Israel’s contribution is important.

          1. Gosh, Guy, I know you are an expert on whatever the subject at hand happens to be, but I have to wonder what qualifies you to determine what the priorities are in a major disaster, and what would prevent the highest number of deaths.

            People have survived for millions of years without portable toilets but someone with an infection or a crushed limb will die if they do not receive treatment.

            Of course, as it always is, your thinking is flawed in a number of ways. The issue is not, of course, portable toilets per se. The issue is providing some means of reasonably safe waste disposal when large numbers of people are packed into extremely crowded conditions and normal waste-disposal systems have been destroyed. Saving one person at a time with a crushed limb is a heroic and very important task, but it saves a relatively small number of people compared with preventing an outbreak of cholera or other deadly and debilitating diseases caused by inadequate waste disposal. Cholera can sweep through a population and kill thousands in a matter of days. Children and babies are especially vulnerable to diseases such as cholera, so you can wipe out a significant percentage of an entire generation if you do not control waste-borne diseases.

            I wish I had time to take your nonsense apart as thoroughly as it deserves, but the above with just have to do for now.

    2. Try this “fiction,” an official MSF press release, on for size:

      Port-au-Prince, January 19, 2010 – A Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) cargo plane carrying 12 tons of medical equipment, including drugs, surgical supplies and two dialysis machines, was turned away three times from Port-au-Prince airport since Sunday night despite repeated assurances of its ability to land there. This 12-ton cargo was part of the contents of an earlier plane carrying a total of 40 tons of supplies that was blocked from landing on Sunday morning. Since January 14, MSF has had five planes diverted from the original destination of Port-au-Prince to the Dominican Republic. These planes carried a total of 85 tons of medical and relief supplies.

      “We have had five patients in Martissant health center die for lack of the medical supplies that this plane was carrying,” said Loris de Filippi, emergency coordinator for the MSF’s Choscal Hospital in Cite Soleil. “I have never seen anything like this. Any time I leave the operating theater I see lots of people desperately asking to be taken for surgery. Today, there are 12 people who need lifesaving amputations at Choscal Hospital. We were forced to buy a saw in the market to continue amputations. We are running against time here.”

      More than 500 patients in need of surgery have been transferred from MSF health center in the Martissant neighborhood to Choscal Hospital with more than 230 operated on since Thursday. MSF teams have been working since the first hours after the earthquake and these cargo shipments are vital to continue their ability to provide essential medical care to victims of the disaster. In five different locations in the city, MSF has given primary care to an estimated 3,000 people in the capital and performed more than 400 surgeries.

      “It is like working in a war situation,” said Rosa Crestani, MSF medical coordinator for Choscal Hospital. “We don’t have any more morphine to manage pain for our patients. We cannot accept that planes carrying lifesaving medical supplies and equipment continue to be turned away while our patients die. Priority must be given to medical supplies entering the country.”

      Many of the patients have been pulled from the rubble of collapsed buildings are at grave risk of death from septicemia and the consequences of “crush syndrome,” a condition where damaged muscle tissue releases toxins into the bloodstream and can lead to death from kidney failure. Dialysis machines are vital to keeping patients alive with this condition.

      Another two planes carrying a total of 26 MSF aid workers were diverted to Dominican Republic. MSF has successfully landed five planes with a total of 135 tons of supplies into Port-au-Prince. Another 195 tons of supplies will need to be granted permission to land in the airport in the coming days in order to continue MSF’s scale up of its medical relief operation in Haiti.

      More than 700 MSF staff are working to provide emergency medical care to earthquake survivors in and around Port-au-Prince. MSF teams are currently working in Choscal Hospital, Martissant Health Center, Trinite Hospital, Carrefour hospital, Jacmel Hospital, and are establishing a 100-bed inflatable hospital in the Delmas area. They are running exploratory assessment missions to other locations outside the capital as well.

      1. Funny because I was going to reference this very same press release. Firstly being an MSF press release it qualifies as PR so we establish the MSF is doing PR. Secondly it makes it very clear that MSF is delivering medical supplies and is telling us that delivering medical care is essential and a high priority. They are not sending planes full of toilets. It’s hypocrisy to criticize Israel for sending a field hospital and at the same time criticize the US for turning away an MSF airplane with a field hospital.
        We also see that the MSF did land 5 planes in Port-au-Prince so they’re obviously not being systematically rejected.

        There are 1400 planes wanting to land in an airport that can only take 140 planes a day.

        http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=ca&hl=en&q=haiti+msf
        gives 3410 results including e.g.:
        http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/news/article.cfm?id=4177&cat=field-news&ref=home-center-relatedlink
        vs.
        http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=ca&hl=en&q=haiti+israel
        4942 so it seems MSF is doing an equivalent amount of PR. I’ve definitely seen more MSF people on the news (and news = PR).

        I live in an earthquake zone and I’d like to think someone would come to rescue me if I’m trapped under a building after an earthquake. It’s not about how many people are saved it’s about the element of time. If you can show me an earthquake where S&R was not an immediate priority I’ll buy you a beer.

        1. Firstly being an MSF press release it qualifies as PR so we establish the MSF is doing PR.

          You’re really cute. It is not PR when you tell the world you have much needed supplies which the U.S. military is preventing you from delivering & that people are dying as a result. That’s called a cry for help. Israel is not issuing a cry for help since it’s been helped quite nicely thank you. MSF is not touting itself, patting itself on the back or suggesting Haitians name their infants after the president of its board or whatever. When MSF does anything remotely like that then you can complain.

          MSF did land 5 planes in Port-au-Prince

          It is THURSDAY. It first tried landing those planes on SUNDAY. THURSDAY-SUNDAY. How many days have gone by since Sunday??

          It’s hypocrisy to criticize Israel for sending a field hospital

          OK, last time. I’m not criticizing Israel for sending a field hospital. I’m criticizing Israel for only caring about its own PR image in the world & shamelessly exploiting the field hospital it did send via thousands of stories in the media & naming a baby after the country among other shameless things. You & both know (or you should know if you don’t) that Israel’s effort revolves around distracting the world’s attention fr. its ills at home. Plain & simple. The field hospital is a PR bonanza being mined to the hilt. The field hospital minus the bonanza is great. Doing good for its own sake is one of Maimonides highest forms of tzedakah. I have no problem w. that at all.

          The next time you come anywhere near close to distorting my argument after I’ve clarified multiple times to you or others, your comments may face moderation.

          I live in an earthquake zone and I’d like to think someone would come to rescue me if I’m trapped under a building after an earthquake.

          Make sure that’s not Gaza or you’re as good as dead.

          I don’t drink beer nor do I relish sharing one with you.

          1. It definitely is PR. If you want help you approach the UN or the US, not the media. When you make press releases you are engaging in PR, you are appealing to the masses out there who watch TV not to the people who can actually help you. You’re kidding yourself if you think that MSF are not creating this media buzz partly to attract support to their organization and cause. To some degree that is OK though you don’t hear others who were turned away whining. Never mind. I applaud MSF for any help they provide. I’ve seen not a shred of evidence to show why their planes had to get priority over other planes when the airports capacity was even more restricted.

            It seems that the Israeli team was either earlier and definitely should have had higher priority given the team’s capabilities (not the motives, who cares).

            The baby was named by the mother, not the Israelis.

            The bottom line is that Israel’s actions are good and the Israeli team with its equipment and supplies seems to have filled a need on the ground very well. The PR is a bit in poor taste but I don’t care. What matters is what they’re doing and that is saving lives. You won’t hear any criticism from me for the people who are out there doing that whatever their agenda may be.

            You’d have lost the beer bet anyways because search and rescue is the utmost priority immediately after an earthquake and has been in any major earthquake. So let’s not worry about that.

          2. If you want help you approach the UN or the US, not the media.

            That ludicrous. They DID approach the U.S. forces & were told THREE separate times they would be permitted to land & three separate times were turned back. Appealing to the media foer help in righting an injustice is a time honored tradition in almost all cultures I know except perhaps totalitarian ones.

            You’re kidding yourself if you think that MSF are not creating this media buzz partly to attract support

            People are dying & the press release documents this & you claim they’re doing it for the same reason Israel is puffing up itself over its relief work. You’re pathetic & obtuse.

            The baby was named by the mother, not the Israelis.

            Last I checked mothers generally named their own babies though perhaps in Israeli jails or other detention facilities Israel has assumed for itself even this right. But in this case the Israeli personnel strongly urged her to name her baby Israel & she acceded. Don’t you read? I wrote this. Or do you just read what you want to read & disregard the rest?

            The PR is a bit in poor taste

            This is the only bit of honesty that come out of yr hundreds of words on this subject. Congratulations, even a broken clock tells time honestly twice a day.

            let’s not worry about that

            If you think I worry about anything concerning you you’re sadly mistaken.

            Look this is getting ridiculous. I’m not going to continue this charade w. you. Do not continue this argument in this thread. You’ve said yr piece & you’re officially done. Comment again in another thread if you wish.

          3. Another point is that the Israeli field hospital took 8 hours to set up while the MSF hospital already took significantly longer and is still being setup. If you read the boing boing article I linked to you’ll see they have been working continuously in shifts of 8 hours.

            Here’s a CNN video from Haiti showing what has been going on:
            http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2010/01/18/dnt.cohen.haiti.patients.dying.cnn.html

            I’m pretty sure that on the ground all the teams are working with each other, not arguing about who can p*ss the furthest, as they should be. That is what’s important.

        2. It’s not about how many people are saved…

          How eagerly you and your ilk display your ignorance, Guy! Ummmm – yes, it is about how many people are saved, Guy. It is exactly about deploying people, equipment, and materials in a manner most likely to save the maximum number of lives. In an ideal situation, you have the correct balance of search and rescue which saves a relatively small number of lives, medical teams/field hospitals, which save a relatively larger number of lives and limbs, but still only in the hundreds to low thousands, the distribution of water and food, which sustain lives by the hundreds of thouands, and disease-prevention supplies, equipment and facilities – vaccines, antibiotics, disinfecting compounds, and waste-disposal equipment – which have the potential to save the greatest number of lives by preventing deadly diseases which can kill thousands per day.

        3. I’d like to think someone would come to rescue me if I’m trapped under a building after an earthquake.

          A lot of good that would do you when you and your whole family end up dead from cholera or an e. choli infection because no one thought it was important to provide decent waste-disposal facilities.

          1. Shirin says:
            January 21, 2010 at 11:17 PM

            “I’d like to think someone would come to rescue me if I’m trapped under a building after an earthquake.”

            “A lot of good that would do you when you and your whole family end up dead from cholera or an e. choli infection because no one thought it was important to provide decent waste-disposal facilities.”

            Oh, golly! You are quite right, Shirin! Please don’t come and rescue me, because even if you do, and even if your medical teams perform emergency surgery on me, and save my life, I might get cholera afterwards, so you might just as well let me die now!

  19. So many lies, so much bullshit, so little time! I want to jump in, Richard, but I hardly know where to begin, and it would take days to sort it all out, and take apart every egregious lie and every distortion, and every piece of obvious rubbish. They’ve really gone all out this time. That should make you feel good!

    1. Something about this post & perhaps the Haiti connection but traffic is through the roof. 2,000 unique visits today alone & a similar number yesterday. The only slight downside is that most of the visits are from social networking sites like Reddit, which I don’t think brings many seriously interested in this issue. But who knows even if 5% are serious & come again, that’s very good.

    1. I think because people want to know about this, and they want to talk about it. I hope they are reading our comments and that they are thinking about what we are saying here.

    1. Interesting the way they spun it, though. The field hospital is a reflection of something deep in Israel’s character – the “true Israel”, in other words, while “Gaza” is what? Something new for Israel? A small detour from its normal peaceful, loving, and deeply humanitarian nature? Well, sorry, folks, but anyone who has studied Israel’s history from the pre-state days until now knows that the field hospital in Haiti is not an expression of Israel’s true humanitarian nature at all, but of something else entirely, namely its narcissistic tendency to engage in grandiose self-aggrandizement. As for “Gaza”, that is hardly anything new, or a momentary detour. On the contrary, the only thing new or different about “Gaza” is that for some reason, it caused a great many people to finally wake up and notice Israel doing what Israel has always done.

      1. Shirin, you said it in your last sentence, and that’s why I call it a minor miracle: “It caused a great many people to finally wake up and notice Israel doing what Israel has always done.”

        The dubious morality of Cast Lead, even posed as a mere question in the New York Times, is a minor miracle. The big job, admittedly, is getting the world to see that the “true Israel” isn’t the humanitarians posing before the cameras in Port au Prince, but the people who thought Operation Cast Lead “didn’t go far enough” to exterminate Palestinians.

  20. The L.A. point was tangential to the point of my post. I apologize for misunderstanding their use, but I maintain that West and East Jerusalem are geographic distinctions. By the way, calling me “obtuse”–a euphemism for stupid that I am not too stupid to recognize–because I happen to live thousands of miles away from anywhere anyone cares about the distinction between East and West L.A. is an obvious ad hominem attack. I have refrained from attacking the intelligence of those on this site and I would appreciate it if the favor were returned: after all, that is only the barest requirement of common courtesy.

    As for your reply, you said the following: “I’m not arguing that East & West Jerusalem are separate cities” and “Jerusalem is in effect two cities.” Could you explain how these are mutually compatible?

    You claim that what I said was, “the bad Palestinians were the leaders of the PA and Hamas,” when what I actually was, “there are many violent and belligerent ones as well–unfortunately for everyone, most of all the Palestinians, these men have found their way into the Palestinian Authority and the ruling elite of Hamas.” The semantic distinction between “found their way into the leadership” and “are the leadership” may not be important to you, but my statement clearly stated that bad (intransigent, selfish, or otherwise unsuited for beneficent leadership) Palestinians have secured positions in the Palestinian leadership, while other positions might be filled with kind and good Palestinians. Regardless, it is quite clear that the vast majority of the current Palestinian leadership is corrupt and their continued reign could only be a negative for the Palestinians. Those Palestinians who do seem to have the right idea (like Sari Nusseibeh) have no real power within the PA or the Hamas government. Since I am reasonably well-read on the pro-Israel side of the story but not as diligent in my reading of the other side, could you recommend those books you mentioned?

    1. That’s why I have an Tikun Olam store with Amazon. Check that out in the sidebar & review the books I feature. Many of them are by and about Palestine, Palestinian nationalism, Hamas, etc. Read the books by Raja Shehadeh, Sari Nusseibeh, Rashid Khalidi. Read The Lemon Tree also featured there. There are also excellent books by Israeli Jewish progressives. Read David Shulman’s book for example.

  21. Richard Silverstein is the Soup Nazi of the blogosphere. Dare to challenge him or disagree with him and — oh, my God! — you get WARNED or BANNED from his sorry excuse for a blog. Ouch! It’s quite hilarious to read his responses to people who disagree with him. I’m guessing that’s why most visitors come to this blog: for the comedy.

    1. you get WARNED or BANNED from his sorry excuse for a blog.

      Now how is that this comment got published if what you say is true?

      It’s quite hilarious to read his responses

      The blog is not meant to be comic. But if that’s what you’re looking for I suggest Sadly, No one of the funniest political satire sites out there.

  22. Just in – From Israel Radio:

    02:45 Israel`s aid delegation to Haiti due to leave at week`s end (Israel Radio)

    1. LAUGH OUT LOUD! Does anyone remember Janica telling us the IDF field hospital would be in Haiti 5 wks?? Well, this is pretty close to the two weeks (give or take a few days) that Joel Donchin predicted they would stay in his article. Janica has long since left us for greener hasbara pastures. But let it be noted that Prof. Donchin was right & Janica was W-R-O-N-G

      1. I had not intended to visit or post on this blog again because, among other reasons, I got tired of the ad hominem attacks against anyone and everyone who takes Israel’s side and because of the repeated use of the “F” word coming from the moderator. I prefer to follow discussion boards where these tactics are not used. However, it has come to my attention that several people are posting false information that Israelis are completely pulling out of Haiti and that at least one person is even using my name (misspelled) to pat themselves on the back claiming that they are right and I was wrong. These people continue to exploit the tragedy in Haiti solely for the purpose of criticizing Israel.

        It is true that the IDF team is leaving Haiti. You have probably already read the official statement: “The IDF medical and rescue team in Haiti will finish its operations in the next few days and its members will return to Israel by Thursday (28 January), after completing its mission in the region. The decision came following the arrival of additional aid forces to Haiti, including the United States military and other, civilian aid, who are now providing regular medical services. Furthermore, many of the local hospitals have reached a sufficient level of functionality.”

        One of the people who sides with those who complain that Israel’s IDF is leaving actually wrote this statement: “I find it very disturbing that the US seems to be settling in for the long haul in Haiti, and have taken it upon themselves to run the show. There is not much humanitarianism in military entrenchment.“ So Israel’s military is not staying for the long haul and receives equal criticism. Those who love to hate Israel and to criticize the U.S. can’t make up their minds and will find any reason to complain.

        However, this is not the end of Israel’s work, but merely the beginning of Israel’s planned ongoing work in Haiti. Israel does not keep its military in countries that have suffered national disasters after its work is done. Instead, Israeli NGO’s take over and provide ongoing aid. “Prove it!” “How do you know?” some of the usual people here will smirk. I know because I support these organizations and follow what they do. I know, for instance, that Israel’s largest umbrella international aid organization, IsraAID had been working in Haiti immediately after the earthquake, partnering with other aid groups such as Operation Blessings International. IsraAID plans to stay in Haiti. It began expanding its relief operations on Sunday, sending additional medical teams and supplies. IsraAID coordinates over a dozen Israeli humanitarian organizations that help people all over the world, including in Muslim countries, and yes, including Palestinians.

        One of the organizations under the IsraAID umbrella is Israel Flying Aid. This organization, which plans to remain in Haiti, will set up its relief work in an orphanage to be staffed by Haitian and Israeli volunteers. The team will provide medical care and other services and will work with other aid groups as part of an interfaith effort.

        I read the following comment by Richard Silverstein, “Saudis being mainly devout Muslims are more attuned to helping fellow Muslims.” I don’t know if that’s true. I honestly don’t. I have Muslims in my family through marriage, and I can tell you that this is untrue of them and quite an unfair thing for anyone to say. But it’s quite alarming if this is one of the reasons that Saudis are not providing aid in Haiti. This self-centered approach to providing aid would never fly in Israel. Israel Flyng Aid, for example, provides aid in communities that are hostile toward Israel–even Pakistan, Indonesia, Sudan, and Iraq. Israeli teams provide ongoing aid year round to communities all over the world, and they do this without any publicity. The organization that I support most and with which I am most actively involved, Hadassah, provided medical help for Arabs since it began its operations almost 100 years ago. Hadassah continues to treat Arabs equally and has Arab doctors and nurses working in its hospitals.

        Israel’s government and its NGO’s have provided aid to other countries since the 1950s and have received nothing in return from those countries. Israel built roads, airports, and hospitals in Africa during the 1960s and never asked for anythng in return. Many of the people who have been helped by Israel live in countries that have no relations with Israel. So why does Israel help these people anyway? Those who hate Israel cannot understand this, so they invent evil ulterior motives. This has been the case for those who hate Jews for more than 2,000 years, and it will never stop.

        Meanwhile, IsraAID will continue to help the people of South Africa, Azerbaijan, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Congo, India, Angola, Myanmar, Zanzibar, Nepal, Indonesia, Tibet, Panama, Senegal, Mauritania, El Salvador, South Korea, Turkey, South Korea, Guyana, Cameroon, and dozens of other countries, and will receive no publicity. Israel does this because it’s the right thing to do.

        It should occur to thinking people that Israel, a country that works so hard to make the world a better place through its medical advances, its technology, and its aid to countries the world over, is unlikely to have committed the acts that those who hate Israel accuse Israel of doing. Look at Israel’s accusers and ask yourselves what these people are doing for the world and why you should believe them.

        (I want to add something about the “hasbara” accusations that are thrown at EVERY person who posts in favor of Israel. This tactic—“Who do you represent?” “What organization(s) do you work for?”—is nothing new. I’ve seen it used for more than a decade by Palestinian supporters. It got old years ago. I won’t lower myself to their level and use it against them. I have never belonged to nor given one cent to any of the American PR organizations (AIPAC, ZOA, etc.) listed by the moderator. I support only the charity organizations I have mentioned earlier. Those who repeatedly hurl “hasbara” accusations don’t know what else to say.)

        1. I had not intended to visit or post on this blog again

          How we were looking forward to being Janica free. But like a driver passing by an accident you just had to slow down to see the carnage (of yr own making largely) & return for more.

          repeated use of the “F” word coming from the moderator

          I used the word one time in a comment written yesterday. I dare you to find another time I used it here. So “repeated” is either a lie or based on willful ignorance.

          several people are posting false information that Israelis are completely pulling out of Haiti

          Let’s refresh yr memory: Prof. Donchin said Israel’s medical team would leave Haiti after two weeks & instead should stay 2-3 months to really have an impact. You claimed it would leave after five wks. It actually left after 11 days. You were wrong, Donchin was more than right & you owe him an apology. Why do I think it will be a long time coming? The fact that there are Israeli NGOs remaining in Haiti (which you claim w/o providing any proof whatsoever–not a good thing w. the dodgy track record you have) has nothing to do w. the original argument. And you’re delbierately trying to change the terms but I won’t let you.

          IsraAID coordinates over a dozen Israeli humanitarian organizations that help people all over the world, including in Muslim countries, and yes, including Palestinians.

          Frankly, I don’t believe it. Prove it. And provide real proof. What do they do & where?

          I have Muslims in my family through marriage, and I can tell you that this is untrue of them

          I made a statement about Saudis & you claim I am wrong based on yr personal anecedotal experience with “Muslims” you happen to know. Do you know how many Muslims there are in the world? I didn’t use the term Muslims. I used the specific term Saudis, which is quite diff & much more specific.

          This self-centered approach to providing aid would never fly in Israel

          Are you claiming there are no Jews or Israelis who believe in only aiding their own co-religionists? BTW, another commenter here has noted that the Saudis have pledged $500 million in aid to Haiti if I recall correctly. I based my original statement on what I’d heard fr. propagandists like you which claimed Saudi Arabia wasn’t participating.

          communities that are hostile toward Israel–even Pakistan, Indonesia, Sudan, and Iraq

          Because Indonesia is a Muslim country it must be hostile to Israel? Can you prove that or was this just another sloppy bit of racist overgeneralization on yr part??

          they do this without any publicity

          Except for what you & the other hasbarists provide them, right?

          Hadassah, provided medical help for Arabs

          You associate yrself with Hadassah & yet you attempted to smear Prof. Donchin, a veteran member of the Hadassah Hospital staff? Interesting. I’ll let him know about this.

          Besides, do you think that the few patients Hadassah helps every year somehow negate the evil of the Occupation, somehow allow you to absolve yrself of any responsibility for it?

          received nothing in return from those countries. Israel built roads, airports, and hospitals in Africa during the 1960s and never asked for anythng in return

          What bullcrap. Every nation uses foreign aid to aid & abet its own interests & policies. Israel supported these countries because it needed the support of these countries in the UN & other international venues. It did not do so out of the goodness of its heart. And all the while its own Israeli Palestinian citizens at home suffered under conditions then almost as bad as some of those Israel was combatting in Africa.

          Those who hate Israel cannot understand this, so they invent evil ulterior motives. This has been the case for those who hate Jews for more than 2,000 years, and it will never stop.

          I DEEPLY resent yr implication that I am in such a category. If you don’t mean this you came awfully close to saying it. And if you do you’ll be banned here so fast yr head will swim.

          Israel, a country that works so hard to make the world a better place

          And through advances such as white phosphorus dumped on Gaza civilians, cluster bombs dumped on Lebanon, DIME weapons which burn the internal organs of Palestinian civilians. Those are technological advances too you know. Are you proud of those too?

          Amidst all yr high dudgeon you’ve never denied that you are a volunteer on behalf of the MFA’s internet hasbara program. You clearly come here from there or some other program like it.

          Cut out the hasbara btw & endless lists of good that Israel has done. It’s tired, transparent, & utterly unconvincing. Make yr comments on- topic if you come back. If they’re not on topic then you’re violating the comment rules.

  23. http://www.islamicreliefusa.org/emergencies/haiti-earthquake?utm_source=Islamic+Relief+USA+Email+List&utm_campaign=8ccc3454f3-Haiti_Earthquake_Emergency_05_01_23_2010&utm_medium=email

    Islamic Relief USA and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have partnered to ship 160,000 pounds of much-needed to Haiti. The shipment includes medical equipment, blankets, first-aid kits, water filtration bottles, wheelchairs, and other much-needed aid.

    I don’t know about anyone else reading here, but this really moves me that Islamic Relief has partnered with the LDS. Interfaith at it’s finest.

    1. Yes, it’s great. I think they also partnered up for Hurricane Katrina, if I remember correctly. Thanks for letting us know.

  24. I guess they can’t wait for the weekend. Must be getting packed up and ready to leave. Show’s over, folks.

    20:10 Israeli team expected to leave Haiti on Wednesday (Israel Radio)

    1. Guess they reached the point of diminishing returns PR-wise. Time to move on to the next image-embellishing effort.

  25. The subject of this blog reminded me of the observations contained in this admonition from another Jew two millenia ago: “Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”

  26. Thanks again for your time and your tone.

    I guess I have a problem with the lack of online organization on the pro-Palestinian side. It neatly plays into stereotypes of Jews being more devious and achieving their nefarious ends through underhand means or through the exercise of money.

    The power of the Israel Lobby in the US is comparable to the power of the NRA or the Teamsters. A group of people playing within a corrupt system are playing the game better than the people who are playing against them. But make no mistake, there are people playing against them. There is an Arab lobby with access to just as much money (if not more) than the Israel Lobby, just as there is an anti-gun lobby trying to oppose the NRA. You cannot fault Israel for doing well what the opposition are trying very hard to do better.

    Using Elisabeth’s example of the lynching in Ramallah. Palestinian ineffectiveness in this instance was not a moral choice. If the governing body could have organized a press conference to sell their biased view of events to the world press, just as the Israelis did, they would have. Spin and media bias is not new. Israel is not doing anything that every other country in the world does not do when it comes to selling a story that paints it in a good light. Your claim that the Palestinians aren’t very good at it and are therefore morally superior is bogus. As soon as they can do it better they will. Israel uses spin and PR exactly the way every other country, including the Palestinian Authority would like to do. Sometimes we do it better, sometimes we don’t, but it doesn’t make us any worse than anyone else for trying.

    To bring it back to the original article. If the Palestinian authority had sent a delegation to Haiti they would have bragged about it in exactly the same way as every other country did. I watched the UK news and saw the triumphant returning British rescuers tearfully telling the press about all they good they did and the lives they saved. We have already heard the Chinese are doing the same.

    The title of this article is The Zionization of Relief. I believe this falls into the trap of singling Israel out for opprobrium for appearing to do something better than everyone else who would like to do the same. I think there is a good case to be made for an article called The Nationalization of Relief which uncovers the PR liaisons that either accompanied every disaster relief team that arrived in Haiti or that issued a release to their national press or that set up a TV crew to meet teams as they returned home.

    Here are some links I found easily enough. None of them seems different to the reports in the world’s press about Israel’s effort in Haiti.

    http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5125543,00.html
    http://www.hellenicnews.com/readnews.html?newsid=11377&lang=US
    http://www.fac.mil.co/?idcategoria=46697&facmil_2008_2009=a1b1316f3100321578333be756f0da24
    http://www.abcnyheter.no/verden/100118/gazas-befolkning-hjelper-jordskjelvofrene
    http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=337312&version=1&template_id=57&parent_id=56

    And on and on. Links all come from here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_response_by_national_governments_to_the_2010_Haiti_earthquake

    Thoughts?

    1. There is an Arab lobby with access to just as much money (if not more) than the Israel Lobby

      That is simply not the case. Aipac alone has a $60 million annual budget. The budgets of CAIR & ADC combined is probably in the very low millions (maybe $4-5M). You could legitimately claim that POTENTIALLY the Arab lobby has comparable financial power. But potential is not actual & so is a phantasm. When they actually have comparable budgets then you can talk about a competing entity. Right now the Israel lobby has a monopoly on the issue in Congress & the wider public. You simply cannot succeed w. the argument that the other side is doing precisely the same thing as the Israel lobby, because it ain’t true. Now, would they LIKE to exercise the same kind of power? Sure. But they don’t, plain & simple.

      Israel is not doing anything that every other country in the world does not do when it comes to selling a story

      As an Israeli you either can’t or won’t see what Israel is doing in terms of hasbara. Israel’s propaganda efforts far outstrip any other country in the world. The sad fact is that Israel’s reputation would be even worse than it is w/o this effort. If we could get the figures I’m sure we would find that per capita Israel spends more on public advocacy & image shaping than any other country in the world. Yes, other countries do this. But not nearly to the extent that Israel does. And there is 1 simple reason: Israel’s policies make it a pariah state & it must play this game better than others or risk becoming the N. Korea of the Middle East (well, it practically is that already–with another war or 2 it should join that club).

      You cannot fault Israel for doing well what the opposition are trying very hard to do better.

      Yes, I can & do. The Israel lobby is one of the most noxious single issue lobbying efforts in this country. Their impact on policy is absolutely pernicious and must be opposed by all reasonable, right-minded people Jews & non-Jews. THis is slowly happening & is helped by Israel’s conduct & by the overreach of the lobby on various issues like Iran.

      You may not see it but trust me, this is a losing game you’re playing. I thought you were not a hasbarist, but your arguments are veering into that territory. Perhaps unintentionally & you sincerely believe what you’re saying. But they’re not convincing. This may be due to the fact that you’re in Israel & not outside & so don’t see how Israel is portrayed in the world media & the impact that hasbara has on this coverage. That’s why you & other Israelis should read more about the types of stories covered here & elsewhere. It would give you a good stiff dose of reality as Israel is seen by outsiders. But most Israelis don’t really care as long as they can have their beach vacation.

      1. The Arabs have never seen a need to extensively lobby the US in the same way the Israelis do. That is due to the fact that there is no “special relationship” for the Arabs to exploit. There is no lobby representing any ethnic or religious group in the US that comes close to the Israel lobby in terms of strength, size or monetary wealth.

      2. Richard, I just want to address this paragraph:

        “As an Israeli you either can’t or won’t see what Israel is doing in terms of hasbara. Israel’s propaganda efforts far outstrip any other country in the world. The sad fact is that Israel’s reputation would be even worse than it is w/o this effort. If we could get the figures I’m sure we would find that per capita Israel spends more on public advocacy & image shaping than any other country in the world. Yes, other countries do this. But not nearly to the extent that Israel does.”

        I find it a little ironic for an American to be lecturing an Israeli about propaganda efforts. Perhaps you can’t see your country’s reputation in the world and how revolting most people find America’s attempts at image shaping. US hasbara, UK hasbara, Russian hasbara, Chinese hasbara, French hasbara, Greek hasbara. It’s all the same.

        You admit that your claim that Israel has a higher per capita spend has no basis in fact, other than “you’re sure”. How does it feel to be making stuff up based on your conviction? “Other countries do this. But not nearly to the extent that Israel does.” You finish up stating something as fact that you admitted you have no evidence for. This is the kind of politicking that you would ridicule someone else for. I am more gracious than that, and I will give you an opportunity to retract your unsubstantiated suppositions.

        If Israel really is the pariah state you claim, we have yet to feel it either anecdotally, economically or in any other way. I applaud you standing up my government’s wrongdoings and calling them to account for years of occupation and maltreatment. I am doing exactly the same. The difference is my efforts from within the democracy might actually make a difference.

        1. Perhaps you can’t see your country’s reputation in the world and how revolting most people find America’s attempts at image shaping.

          First, you’re talking about the Bush administration, not the current one. Second, why do you think I’m so sensitive to Israel’s bad PR/hasbara? Because I’ve just lived through 8 yrs of Bush hell. That’s why.

          It’s all the same.

          No it’s not.

          How does it feel to be making stuff up based on your conviction?

          I’ve been doing this blog a long time & focussing intensively on Israel for over 4 decades. I’m not making anything up. And if you want to dispute me I welcome your doing some research & getting figures for Israeli gov’t hasbara efforts. I’d really like to see you rebut me if you can. I won’t retract anything because I think I’m right. But you’re welcome to try to prove me wrong.

          The difference is my efforts from within the democracy might actually make a difference.

          I have the graciousness to wish you well in those efforts if you’re sincere in what you claim you’re doing. You don’t have the graciousness to accord my own efforts similar credibility. ‘Nuff said ’bout you. But I KNOW my work has impact & don’t need yr validation for that.

    2. “Using Elisabeth’s example of the lynching in Ramallah. Palestinian ineffectiveness in this instance was not a moral choice.”

      But that wasn’t the issue was it? The issue was whether there IS an effective pro-Palestinian lobby, not whether the Palestinians would want there to be one. And the example illustrates that there isn’t.

      As to things that you seem to regard as possible pro-Palestinian propaganda: Remember that the NGO’s that reported on the number of civilian deaths in Gaza are independent, and that they have reported just as dutifully on human rights violations in other countries. They are not linked to the PA or Hamas.

      “If the Palestinian authority had sent a delegation to Haiti they would have bragged about it in exactly the same way as every other country did. I watched the UK news and saw the triumphant returning British rescuers tearfully telling the press about all they good they did and the lives they saved. We have already heard the Chinese are doing the same.”

      These delegations did not bring a whole press outfit with them, including officers who canvassed foreign reporters at the airport to get them to come see their own countries’ rescue efforts. Their tearful stories are for domestic consumption. That is a big difference: Not ‘every other country’ tried to brag about what it did to the rest of the world in the way Israel did.

      1. PS: Isn’t it interesting also, that you only saw this report on the Brithis efforts on the RETURNING of their delegation to their own country? (Perhaps they did not bring their own press outfit with them to Haiti, and had to wait to return home for such extended coverage to be possible? Just a thought.)

  27. We are scattered, outnumbered, poorly organized and we are up against a news media influenced by Zionists and their sympathizers, to put it bluntly. We do not have a big lobby. We only have a handful of friends in Congress. We do not have the equivalent of AIPAC or Campus Watch. Most Palestinians are poor, many Palestinian bloggers are routinely hacked and virused, and one of my monumental tasks as an activist is to try to bring the Palestinian voice into mainstream media coverage. As an activist, I come to comment threads to attempt to speak for them, and I do my best to base my arguments on factual information and logical interpretation. I am not naive and do not idealize the Palestinian people.

    I did not at any time attack the people who traveled to Haiti and worked to save lives there. My criticism went to the Israeli government and their cynical attempt to redeem themselves from committing war crimes by boasting about their great humanitarianism. I speak rather bluntly, but it is not my intention to give any offense unless I am unfairly attacked by another commenter. I thank you for your politeness and if I offended you, please forgive me.

    1. “We are scattered, outnumbered, poorly organized and we are up against a news media influenced by Zionists and their sympathizers, to put it bluntly.”

      Whoa! I’m not going to touch that one, I’m afraid. It’s just bollocks. Outnumbered, seriously? Zionist influenced media? Really?

      Richard, you argue that “potential” is irrelevant, but my argument is that for the article you wrote here it’s exactly the point. The Arab lobby (whatever its size) doesn’t look at AIPAC and use words like “pernicious”. They look at AIPAC and say “how do we do exactly the same? How can we organize our supporters and achieve the same ends?” As soon as they do, you will forget this argument and find something else that Israel did bad first and accuse them of it.

      “The Israel lobby is one of the most noxious single issue lobbying efforts in this country. Their impact on policy is absolutely pernicious and must be opposed by all reasonable, right-minded people Jews & non-Jews.”

      It’s not just the Israel lobby as I tried to point out. All lobbies are pernicious. The NRA, Big Tobacco, Pro-Life. The US system allows these revolting groups to take power unelected. I wish they were all banned. There is an Arab lobby, there is an Israel lobby. It is a double standard to demonize the Israeli lobby for doing well what the Arab lobby happens to be doing less well. I will condemn both. I get the feeling that you will not.

      As for your comment that in Israel I have a limited vision of how we are portrayed in the rest of the world, it’s a fair criticism for which I have no answer. I don’t have a TV and I don’t buy newspapers either in Hebrew or English. I read the Guardian online most days as it was my paper of choice before I made aliyah.

      Elisabeth, I was in a hotel before shabbat and watched a bit of Sky News which is where I saw the report on the British team returning. Sky News is a channel that is broadcast throughout the world. To claim that the PR team that orchestrated the interviews at Heathrow did so for domestic consumption only is silly.

      The job of every government PR is to make their country look good domestically and internationally. You claim that the Israelis are dreadful for doing this aggressively. I agree. But we are exactly as dreadful as everyone else. Ask around among the other government press agents you know, including those from countries antipathetic to Israel. They would love the budget and the support to do exactly what Israel does. I find it distasteful, but I would find it so whoever was doing it. I don’t believe everyone else here feels the same.

      My point is if everyone cheats in a test, how can you be angry only with the person who cheats best?

      Many of the responses to me seem to imply that Israel is the only one cheating. The Americans have too much integrity. The British are too proper. The Palestinians are too poor and disorganized. I think this is racist claptrap.

      The Palestinians I meet are smart, savvy and sophisticated. They are professors and plumbers, computer scientists and carpenters. They are parents and football fans. They are as deserving of liberty, democracy and autonomy as every human being on this planet. I have seen more generalizations on this board about the “poor Palestinians” and their ineffectiveness in the face of overwhelming Israeli strength than I have ever heard from any Arab Israeli or Palestinian.

      1. Sky News is privately owned by Rupert Murdoch of all people. It is not exactly the BBC. And I still don’t believe that the British mission brought their own cameramen and press officers with them.

        “We are exactly as dreadful as everyone else.”
        No, I think Israel is no more dreadful than a number of other countries that have problematic human rights records that need polishing up. But they are more dreadful than many, many other countries that do not have such issues.

        1. “I think Israel is no more dreadful than a number of other countries that have problematic human rights records that need polishing up.”

          Do you include the US, the UK, Australia, France and Germany in their number? If so, fine, I’ll gladly take the comparison while working within the system to improve it. I’ll also look out for your name on boards that condemn those countries for their actions.

          And I don’t understand your comment about Sky and Rupert Murdoch. The reports about Israel in Haiti were also on Sky News. The important part is not who broadcast the interviews. The point was they were clearly set up by PR people on the side of the British mission to boast of their successes to an international audience. In other words whether those PR people went with the team to Haiti (do you have proof they didn’t?) or whether they stayed behind in London, they existed to do exactly the same dirty work that you accuse the Israeli PR machine of doing. I don’t understand why you can’t concede this simple fact.

          1. I would not include Australia, France and Germany in their number as their use of military power is much more restrained than in case of the US, UK and Israel.

            It is known when a mission returns home. For there to be reporters at the airport to meet them hardly needs to be ‘set up by PR people on the side of the British mission’.
            But the most important thing is that there is a difference between a mission that tells the news media that gather at the airport on their return about what they did, and a mission that brings a complete media circus with them to the disaster area, including people whose only job seems to have been to approach foreign news media in order to get them to see the Israeli hospital. I have not come across similar reports concerning other missions.

            The Israeli field hospital did an absolutely terrific job, but the PR effort attracted negative attention because it was over the top. Another thing is, that when you are asked to look at all the wonderful things Israel does in Haiti, the contrast with what is going on in Gaza becomes so obvious, and this causes irritation. But I am afraid we will continue to disagree.

      2. Daniel, unless you really intend to make a valid argument against anything I say, I ask that you kindly refrain from the pointless and condescending remarks, and from using profanity (albeit British profanity) to respond to my statements.

        “I don’t have a TV and I don’t buy newspapers either in Hebrew or English. I read the Guardian online most days as it was my paper of choice before I made aliyah.”

        I don’t have a TV either; at least we both agree that television is useless rubbish. But what I see here is that you have decided to read only one newspaper and one perspective. And yet you seem to think you are well informed. The irony is that many Israelis, living smack in the middle of Israel, have no clue when it comes to Palestinians and their lives, nor do they care to know. Life inside the green line is not quite the same as, say, Jenin Refugee Camp. And just because you know, or claim to know, Palestinians who are educated professionals does not mean that there are not many, many more who are not so fortunate. I would say that you generalize more than you care to admit.

        However, the subject of the thread is not how we perceive Palestinians. The subject is how Israel causes the horrific suffering of a people under occupation yet cynically trots itself out in front of the world as a champion humanitarian.

      3. The Arab lobby (whatever its size) doesn’t look at AIPAC and use words like “pernicious”.

        First, there is no Arab lobby so this imaginary group doesn’t say anything about the Israel lobby. 2nd, there are Arabs who admire the lobby in a perverse way–they have a love-hate relationship w. it but mostly hate. And if you think Arab American leaders don’t find the I. lobby pernicious you don’t know jack ’bout what Arabs think.

        The job of every government PR is to make their country look good

        Sky News is not the UK gov’t TV channel. The IDF team in Haiti on the other hand was the official national delegation of Israel. And it wasn’t as if one single network like Sky reported on the Israeli team. Every Israeli TV channel & paper prob. had reports fr. Haiti AND the Israeli hasbara guys got articles placed in international media virtually everywhere. That’s a far cry fr. a single network like Sky covering the UK Haiti delegation. Not to mention that Sky is a Rupert flag waving media circus that operates in some ways just like Israeli hasbara (cf. FoxNews).

        They would love the budget and the support to do exactly what Israel does.

        You claim I make up numbers out of whole cloth for the Israeli hasbara budget, yet here you essentially concede the munificence of the hasbara budget.

        I think this is racist claptrap.

        That’s so beyond feeble & a real abuse of a useful term. Pls. don’t abuse it for the sake of grandstanding or scoring a few debating pts.

        The Palestinians I meet are smart, savvy and sophisticated. They are professors and plumbers, computer scientists and carpenters. They are parents and football fans

        VS.

        I have seen more generalizations on this board

        Including yr own.

        I have seen more generalizations on this board about the “poor Palestinians” and their ineffectiveness in the face of overwhelming Israeli strength than I have ever heard from any Arab Israeli or Palestinian.

        If you want to read a brilliant Palestinian analyst really complain about Palestinian leaderlessness & ineffectiveness read Rashid Khalidi. Then you can talk about your so-called deep knowledge of Palestinians & what they want. Till then you might want to back off yr attacks on commenters here who know a helluva lot more about who Palestinians are & what they want than you do.

  28. 01:29 Israeli field hospital in Haiti closes gates, en route back to Israel (Israel Radio)

    I guess they can’t wait to fold their tents and go home. Couldn’t even wait out the week.

    1. Grand total of 11 days in situ. Not even the 2 weeks Dr. Donchin claimed they would stay or the 5 wks. Janica the hasbarist claimed let alone the 2-3 months Donchin said they needed to stay to really have an impact!

  29. Daniel: First of all, my remark that Zionists have control over the news media is my own opinion, and there is nothing “dumb and thuggish” about it. You misquote me when you claim that I used the term “Jews” in my comment; kindly go back and read again and you will see that I said nothing about Jews. However, I will not withdraw or repudiate my remark about control of the media, and as a case in point I will remind anyone who cares to argue that Jared Malsin, an editor for Maan in Palestine and an American Jew, was deported from Israel recently, and it was painfully obvious to everyone that it was because of his so-called anti-Israel reportage. Once again, I caution you as to the language you use and ask that you think twice before you use it.
    I also will not tolerate any remarks that generalize Palestinian resistance as being the cause of the failure of the fossilized “peace process.” It is obvious to most of us that the block in the “road” has in almost all cases been the Israeli government, and now it is at the point where it is too late for a two-state solution, and I believe this had been the Israeli intention all along. This is not the proper thread for a full blown argument on this, and it has been hashed and rehashed ad infinitum on others, but I am drawing attention to your comment simply to point out that you’re not as open-minded and liberal as you think you are. It is the Israeli government’s responsibility to end its illegal occupation of the West Bank and Jerusalem, and its brutal and disgusting siege on Gaza. As an Israeli citizen, I do hope you are active in achieving this goal.

  30. “If a commenter behaves in an obnoxious way, they will be treated the way they treat others.”

    Dear Mr. Silverstein: You’re fucking obnoxious. This may be your blog, so you’re technically allowed to say whatever you want, but when you set such a poor example for your commenters by being abusive, it’s difficult to see why anyone except supercilious yes-men bother to read this blog. You’re a vile hypocrite and a useful idiot for the enemies of both Israel and Diaspora Jewry.

    1. This may be your blog, so you’re technically allowed to say whatever you want

      Not technically, I’m actually allowed to say whatever I want.

      You’re fucking obnoxious

      And you’re fucking BANNED.

      1. No big loss, Brian. Too bad that any Jew who criticizes Israeli policies is automatically branded “a traitor to Israel and world Jewry,” as if one cannot be a good Jew without being a Zionist. I would personally say that any Jew who speaks out against illegal occupation and abuse of the Palestinian people, and in favor of peace, is the better Jew than one who adopts a racist and abusive ideology and confuses political loyalty with religion.

  31. A good article on Israel arming Baby Dock and Papa Doc Duvalier dictators back in the day!

    http://globalgrind.com/channel/culture/content/13

    On Dec. 27, 1982, the US newspaper Christian Science Monitor reported that since 1968 Israel had sold weapons to two Haitian dictators-Francois Duvalier, who became president in 1957; and his son Jean-Claude Duvalier, who succeeded him in 1971. The two, known as "Papa Doc" and "Baby Doc," controlled and terrorized the country with a private army. On March 27, 1983, the New York Times reported that Israel was among the few countries that had agreed to sell weapons to Baby Doc, and provided him with the long-term payment arrangement that he requested.

    Paul Farmer, who would serve as President Bill Clinton’s deputy UN representative to Haiti, previously reported that Gen. Prosper Avril, the head of the military junta that took power in Haiti in 1988, received temporary asylum in Israel in 1990. Avril was the head of Baby Doc’s notorious "Presidential Guard," and a US court ruled that he was responsible for "scandalous human rights violations." He would later serve prison time in Haiti for his crimes.

    In 1990, four years after Baby Doc was ousted from power, the popular priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide was elected president of Haiti-in the first democratic elections the nation had seen. But in 1991 he was deposed in a military coup. Britain’s The Independent newspaper reported Oct. 14, 1991 that about 2,000 Uzi and Galil machine-guns from Israel were sent to Haiti in the weeks prior to the coup-with diplomats claiming the weapons went to military units especially loyal to the coup-plotters.

    1. How wide is the scope of this thread. The reason I ask is that the original posting was about Israeli aid to Haiti which has been criticized on the grounds that it was for PR reasons and not of the most helpful kind, according to the single source whom the author chose to quote.

      But then in the responses, I read references to Zionist “control over the news media” and then to Israel having sold weapons to the then dictators of Haiti. So I was wondering what is the subject of the thread? Is it Haiti? The wickedness of the Zionists? Or do the sales of weapons to other dictators (e.g. by Arabs or Muslims) also qualify as relevant? Or can we discuss aid by the Arabs to Haiti? if so, can we speculate that they too were motivated by PR considerations? Or is this another no-no?

  32. “I recall reading that several planes carrying relief workers were not able to land because of the massive number of Israeli press who were landing to cover Israel’s humanitarian mission.”

    Do you recall WHERE you read this?

  33. Yeh I have plenty to say about the subject matter Richard,

    1) The opinion of one disgruntled former aid worker doesn’t prove that mobile toilets were needed more than medicine. I know your standard answer: “He’s an expert and you’re not.” But that doesn’t cut it Richard because he’s just one expert and one swallow does not a summer make.

    2) You tried to imply – with your usual innuendo and lack of evidence – that Israel was responsible for America turning away “precious, desperately needed medical supplies.” And this after telling us ad nauseum that it was toilets they needed not doctors.

    What a pathetic attempt at anti-Israel Hasbara you engaged in Richard.

  34. im not a man that knows alot about alot of things in this life. im a simple jewish man with a simple jewish family. i take pride in that fact because of where we come from and how we work towards helping others and looking out for ourselves as jewish people. i know in a world of over 6 billion people our numbers are about 15 million and it profoundly saddens me to hear all the negativity generated by you and all the articles ive read on this site. its obvious you were hurt along the way embarrassed or otherwise by someone close to you in this life. my guess is most of the hatred you have for people stems from a jew that hurt you to deep to comprehend. so in the spirit of yom kippur coupled with the assumption that you have had no closure with your past issue id like to personally apologize for whatever had affected you in such a horrible way to have made you into such a bitter and venomous person. maybe one day you will find alittle pride in who you are rather that manifest an identity by fault u find in others. the simple fact is with all the fault u find in others there is 100x more good to discuss,hope to share,and positive vision to try and cultivate. in the end you just talk and stay a part of the problem or you can be part of a solution(and dont try and tell me your just trying to “give people something to think about ” or “awareness leads to positive change” because weve heard it, know it,and thats old…OLD! news) you DO NOT HEAL THE WORLD BY HATE AND BLAME! you heal the world with LOVE COURAGE CONSISTANCY and forgiveness…good luck with your new pair of glasses.shalom.

    1. im not a man that knows alot about alot of things in this life.

      Beware of someone who begins a comment in this way. Either he’s genuinely humble (doubtful) or he putting up a big show of how humble he is only to lay a big fat one on ya.

      Thanks for all the pop psychology narishckeit. In fact, I’ve never heard of Jewish pop psychology, but you’ve started a new trend. BTW, someone who offers a fake apology is worse than someone who offers no apology at all. You have nothing to apologize for other than you’ve offered an entirely insincere apology. So do us all a favor & either read the blog & learn something or don’t. But do spare us the nonsense.

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