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Finally, the FBI pays a visit to someone who deserves one (as opposed to the thousands of Muslim-Americans who’ve received unwanted visits from local agents since 9/11). The Council for American Islamic Relations (CAIR) has been monitoring Little Green Footballs’ comments section in which readers egg each other on to see who can spout more homicidal and hateful speech and thought against Muslims. After CAIR filed its complaints, FBI agents visited Charles Johnson twice. Here’s the little that he had to say about the incidents. I especially like the high moral dudgeon of this comment:
The premier Islamist front group is starting to go after the blogosphere, using the tools provided by our own society.
Imagine, Muslim-Americans have the same rights as red-blooded sons of America like Charles Johnson! It’s really quite shocking. Something ought to be done about it. Since domestic quarantine has fallen out of favor with the American people after the Japanese internment, maybe we can send all CAIR members to Guantanamo?
I’d like to know what Chuck and the G-men talked about; and I’d like to find out what was the content of the LGF comments. Anyone reading this who can provide more information would be most appreciated.
But you don’t actually need to see those comments, because new slime oozes every day at LGF. LGF Watch posts its own sampling of the delightful sentiments of Johnson’s readers:
Goat-fucking koranimals. Unlike my last war, this war, I may have to consider collecting a necklace of ears.
/loading more magazines/gotta finish post-FTX refit and weapons check.
Why do I get the feeling that Herbert Sobel, the author of this fetching comment hasn’t served in the IDF–or any army? Just a frustrated couch potato who gets himself off by talking like a Jewish Rambo.
Another commenter posted this about an alleged Hezbollah propaganda video Johnson offered to his readers:
I’m not goint to watch this. I’ve been pissed off enough this week about Muslims. I strongly suspect that they had some proud nationalistic Muslim music playing on this when it was packaged. I also strongly suspect that this will be shown in each and every Muslim school, some time between bombmaking 101 and recess where they play joooohead teather ball.
No, that’s not homicidal. Just full of despicable, scummy hate.
Whenever I read sentiments like this from LGF or its various blog hangers-on I feel as if I’ve waded into a vat full of dog shit. But I have to admit I sometimes feel the same way when I wade through some of the more spiteful comment threads at DailyKos, a site I’m proud to say from which I’ve been banned. I haven’t missed it.
Related posts:
- British Anti-Muslim Nativists Riot, Muslim Immigrant Murdered
- Sen. Specter Withdraws from Pipes Anti-Muslim Conference
- Bibi’s Speech a Non-Starter
- U.S. Envoy Calls Bibi’s Speech ‘Inadequate’ Before He Delivers It
- Obama’s Cairo Speech: One for the Ages
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Tags: council-for-American-Islamic-Relations, fbi-investigates-hate-speech-at-little-green-footballs
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Richard,
I do appreciate that you are still reading this.
No, the Muslims are not Nazis. But neither were the Germans. Not all of them, anyway. The interesting thing about the Holocaust is that the Nazis kept it a secret from their own population. That is why the women’s revolt succeeded. I am talking about that event that happened in 1943, when a bunch of German women demanded the return of their Jewish husbands who were arrested. And they succeeded.
Adam Czerniakow was not a traitor, in my opinion. He was a good man, but incredibly naive.
Please don’t get offended by my suggestion to look up some info on Czerniakow. I did find that many people in this country, especially on the Left, have very limited knowledge of history. Perhaps you are not one of them. If you followed that link to my article, you now know a little bit about my background. I’d like to add to it that World War 2 history is a hobby of mine. My particular areas of interest are the WW2 aviation and Jewish resistance, both in the underground movements and in the Allied armed forces.
All the arguing aside, what did you think about that photograph of Palestinian policemen saluting at their graduation ceremony? How about those kids in Hezbollah camp? What did you think of them?
Again, best of luck to you and shalom.
The Holidays are coming, so Shana Tova.
Eric.
PERHAPS I’m not one of them?? You have a lot of gall! If you cannot tell by reading my posts & replies to comments here, some of which enumerate by Jewish educational background, that I am not one of the unwashed, illiterate leftists you imagine lurk throughout the online world, then you are dense.
Besides to say that those on the left “have limited knowledge of history” is condescending & arrogant. There is just as much ignorance of history (perhaps more) at LGF as there is at Daily Kos or any other progressive website. Ignorance unfortunately doesn’t have any political affiliation.
Richard,
Please forgive me: there is a lot of comments on your site, so I read only the ones addressed to me.
You still haven’t answered my questions about those photographs. Have you seen them? What did you think of them?
I have another question for you: what’s with this combative attitude? Why do you keep getting offended by anything I write? Doesn’t my “Shana Tova” at least warrant something like “Happy New Year to you too”?
Eric.
Eric: Your last comment was the only one in which there wasn’t something either downright insulting or so condescending that I had to take offense. If people dispense w. name-calling & ask civil questions or post civil arguments then I can deal w. them civilly as well. If you find my replies uncivil, how do you find the comment threads at LGF or even Daily Kos? Now there’s where you’ll find “combative attitude.”
Frankly, regarding videos & photographs I don’t put much stock in them in terms of shedding light on truth or political debates. I use photos periodically at this site but w. very few exceptions they’re meant to be more illustrative than key pieces of evidence to prove one pt. or another. Charles really goes in for videos & photos in that way & I just don’t.
Text is my chosen medium & discussion, argument & debate are more my way rather than through a visual medium. So if you want to make a pt w. me or persuade me of something, it’s more effective to use those terms. All that by way of saying I haven’t had time to review those links though I will try since you’ve asked me to several times.
BTW, I assume the photos you’re linking to are meant to prove some damaging allegation about Muslim extremists. I’ve got news for you–there are plenty of damning photos of Israelis engaged in hateful activities that one could display as well. What does it prove really? That there’s hate on both sides of the conflict? That both sides glory in the wish to kill the other side? Don’t we know that already?
Sorry about my lack of civility, but 40 LGF readers have been bombarding this site w. comments over the past 2 days & they’ve been pretty nasty so I’ve reacted in kind. All that by way of saying Shana tovah u’metaka to you. May you have a good & sweet year.
Richard,
I don’t spend a lot of time reading comments on LGF: usually it is just a bunch of people agreeing with each other. Incidentally, I do agree with them as well, for the most part. Those of the comments that are informative usually end up on the front page. If I think that I have some interesting point to make, then I also post a comment there.
The photographs are useful as evidence, if they are not doctored or staged. Whenever I see photographs on LGF that I find interesting, I follow the link to the original, as I’d like to see them in context. The Time magazine photo essay that I linked, I did find on LGF. But Charles had just the first picture. The photograph of those Palestinian policemen, that I included in my article, I also found on LGF. Charles did not have the Reuters caption under the photo. But I included the whole picture along with the caption. I do hope you will look at them. Since you studied the Holocaust, I am assuming that you are aware of historical connections between radical islamists and the Nazis. These pictures just illustrate the continuation of this connection.
As for the both sides of the Arab-Israeli conflict hating each other, Golda Meir once said: “There will be peace when they love their children more than they hate us”. Are you going to say that someone who simply hates the other side said that?
BTW, in most of the research of the Holocaust, the most neglected part is the resistance. Why do you think that is? This is not a trick question, I simply would like to know your thoughts on this.
Eric.
While I have a generally favorable view of Golda, this quotation makes my skin crawl. It is absolutely ludicrous and repulsive sentiment.
What, Arabs don’t love their children as much as Israelis? And don’t give me the crap photos of little Palestinian children with toy guns. You don’t think that Israeli children are inculcated with a culture of hate by their parents or schools? If you believe there is any difference between the two sides on this you are mistaken.
I’m not sure what you mean or why you say that. I think the resistance is quite well known.
Richard,
I am just loving your put downs of the LGF boys and girls, do you not think it is unfair taking advantage of the disadvantaged?
Richard,
Why do I have the feeling that you seem to dismiss anything I write out of hand?
About that Golda quote. When she said what she said, she did not mean that Arabs love their children less than Jews. She was simply attempting to describe the level of hatred toward the Jews that exists in the Arab world. Does it include all the Arabs? No, of course not. But there are enough people in that part of the world that do have those feelings. Are there similar feelings on the part of the Israelis? Not to the same extent. How do I know? Perhaps I should tell you my background. I am a naturalized American, originally from the former Soviet Union. I have many friends and relatives in Israel. Nobody I know hates the Arabs. Nobody. They do hold views similar to mine, which are that the terrorists should be hunted down and killed, but nobody wants to just go out and kill Arabs. On the other hand, I heard myself Al-Awda activists calling for the destruction of Israel. One said it to my face. It happened at one of the demonstrations against the war in Iraq. I was participating in the counter-protest. So, I was talking to one guy from the other side, the guy I met before. There was an Al-Awda activist with him. Our conversation turned to Israel. When we both agreed that we could both live with the 1967 borders, the Al-Awda guy said: “No, Israel should not be there”. How do you negotiate with that?
Please take a look at this: http://www.teachkidspeace.org/
And then this: http://www.memrifilms.org/
Please don’t dismiss it, do take a look. And then tell me if you can find anything like this in Israel or America. And about those photographs that I linked earlier. Have you seen them? What do you think?
Now, about Jewish resistance during WW2. Perhaps it is known to those who dig for the information on the subject. Although, I did read in one of the books on the subject, that it was, in fact, neglected. But popularly it is not known. Out of many films about the Holocaust the great majority depict the Jews lead to slaughter like sheep, and occasionally some righteous gentile saves them. In one movie, I don’t remember which, they were showing the Germans shooting the Jews at Babiy Yar in Kiev. Among the people that were shown was whole bunch of young men of military age, along with women and children. That just infuriated me: there were no men. All the men were at the same place both of my grandfathers were: in the Soviet Army, fighting the Nazis. There was another movie, about Danes saving the Jews. And at the end, when the Danish Resistance loading the Jews on to the ships, the Germans arrive. So, the Danes shoot it out with the Germans, while the Jews just escape on those ships. No Jew picks up a gun and starts shooting. Of course, in real life it did not happen like that: there was no shoot-out in the port. But that is not the point. Why do they show Jews not fighting, but escaping? Why are there no movies about Jews fighting back? The only movies that I know off that do show resistance are that NBC movie that I mentioned, “Uprising”, and, from long time ago, “Escape from Sobibor”. I think it just spreads the stereotype of a Jews as a perpetual victim. Thus, whenever Jews are fighting back, it does not fit the stereotype. I do think that this is part of the reason why many people in Europe hate Israel. So, what do you think about all that?
I hope you won’t dismiss what I wrote out of hand. Please take a look at the links I gave you, as well as the links I gave you earlier.
I hope we can continue this debate.
Eric.
Note how polite Eric is in his conversation with Richard and how Richard consistently dismisses everything he says out of hand (rudely I might add). The lepard shows his colors.
Eric, I went to Concordia University in Montreal (you might have heard about it in the news) and prior to arriving there I didn’t have a care in the world one way or another about Arabs. Then one day I tried striking a peaceful conversation with SPHR (a local Palestinian group) and by the end of it I got exactly the same result as you: initially they pretended to just want Israel to go back to 1967 borders, then revised their story. The guy told me: “Look, it’s in your best interest to give us what we want now, because either way in 50 years we will destroy your country one way or the other and you better be on our good side.” Like you said “How do you negotiate with that?”
These guys always pretend to want reasonable things and once they get it they want more and more and more. Bottom line is they want nothing less than the utter destruction of Israel, which is why Arafat could have never accept 98% of the land he was asking for even if he could exchange one land for another and get more of Jerusalem. It’s simply not enough. Not only do they absolutely refuse anything less than 100% of what they ask for (how is that negotiating when you refuse to compromise even a bit?) but even the 100% they ask for isn’t enough either.
I would negotiate with anyone on good faith any day of the week, as would the majority of Israelis I know, but nothing is gained by negotiating with people who want nothing short of your death.
One final note: Richard, you might find the term Islamo-Fascism “repulsive” but you’d be wrong to do so unless you also find the term “Nazi Germany” repulsive. Islamo-Fascism does not imply all followers of Islam are fascists, nor does Nazi Germany imply that all Germans were Nazis. The term correctly identifies those extremists who are acting as Fascists with an Islamic idiology. You do not deny that Bin-Laden and his bunch are inspired by a perverse Islamic idiology, do you? I mean, how is it that the majority of Muslims I talk with agree with this sentiment and you do not? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
A note on “Islamo-Fascism”: There is a little bit of a slur involved in yoking the two terms. It reminds me of Rush Limbaugh’s term “Femi-Nazis.” It is funny that Bush was slammed for saying “Islamic Fascists” since that way of putting it avoids the problem. I use the term “Islamist” myself.
You’re being disingenuous. She meant that Arab mothers do not love their children as much as they hate Jews. That is flat out utter propagandistic narischkeit (“foolishness”). Arab mothers love their children just as much as you or I or any Israeli. But unlike you or I or any Israeli they’ve been fighting for their national rights since 1965 & even earlier & still have not won them. So yes, just like any human being in such a situation a Palestinian mother might resign herself to the fact that her children might die resisting Israeli oppression & abuse.
I want to make clear once again that I do not support Palestinian violence against Israeli civilians. But I am not Palestinian & do not know what I would do or how I would feel if I was.
Not true. Even today there are those in the settler movement who worship Baruch Goldstein and Meir Kahane. And those too who support Yigal Amir.
Yours is but anecdotal evidence. And if this slender slice of Israeli opinion represented by your friends symbolizes the whole, can you explain the thousands of acts of terror against Palestinians by Israeli settlers & other extremists, including multiple murders? Do they harbor the same positive feelings toward Arabs as you & your friends allegedly do?
I’ve got news for you, when the IDF “hunts down” people it suspects of being terrorists but instead kills multiple civilians that to me is the equivalent of “just going out and killing Arabs.” Extrajudicial assassination doesn’t work as it targets the innocent as well as the guilty. It is indiscriminate killing which can only happen when you don’t value any of the lives you take, whether they be innocent or guilty.
Well golly gee, I’ve read and heard Israeli activists at LGF calling for mass murder against Lebanese, and not just Hezbollah but Lebanese civilians. I’ve read and heard Avigdor Lieberman calling for the forced expulsion of Israeli Arab citizens of Israel from the State. The Arabs don’t have the market cornered on mindless hate I’m afraid. By the way, in case you want to chime in w. all the other idiots here on my alleged love for Muslims or Israel-haters, I condemn in no uncertain terms hatred & violence on both sides: Al Awda AND LGF.
Who said Israel is negotiating with Al Awda? Does Al Awda control the PA? Does it control anything? It’s like a Palestinian saying: “How do I negotiate with extremist settlers who wish to exterminate my people?” I’d say the same thing to that Palestinian. You’re not negotiating with the settlers. You’re negotiating with the State of Israel & its government.
I wish you would read this comment thread more closely before publishing yr comment. I’ve had a long discussion here w. someone else who touted the MEMRI trash. I have absolutely NO INTEREST in viewing hack pro-Israel propaganda. Sites like MEMRI, CAMERA, LGF & their ilk are nothing but demagogic propaganda. Find something you want me to see at a site that is trustworthy, reliable & not extremist, then I would view it.
And as I said before (again you didn’t bother reading this apparently), there are mounds of images, & visual & documentary evidence of Israeli and western hate for Arabs & Muslims. What does any of it prove? That both sides hate ea. other enough to do, say & write stupid things? Well, gee that’s real news.
The issue you raise is not new. In fact, it is quite old. Elie Wiesel’s Night & Jerzy Kozinski’s Painted Bird take up this subject. In fact, they are responsible for popularizing the very idea you claim isn’t popularly known.
You make the last statement in the passage above & yet contradict it immediately after making it by pointing out two films which do precisely what you say none have done. Pardon me but, there have been MANY TV or feature films & multiple books about the Sobibor rebellion (as you mention), the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, Jewish partisans, the White Rose (though this is not about Jewish resistance), etc. Not to mention every Holocaust museum in the world which all highlight such activities. I just don’t buy what you’re saying on this subject. That being said, I do believe it is important to highlight such resistance & that it should be even better known than it is.
Dead wrong. Europeans (why single them out when virtually the entire world agrees with this European viewpoint?) don’t resent Israelis defending themselves from terror. They resent Israel raining down indiscriminate death on Arab civilians as they did in Lebanon & continue to do in Gaza. They resent thousands of civilian deaths with Israel offering nothing but excuses (& bad ones at that). The problem w. yr mindset is that you cannot distinguish between acts of legitimate self-defense and acts of militaristic adventurism that do not advance any political agenda (which is, after all, what von Clausewitz said that war was meant to do).
I’m hoping you don’t use the term “Islamist fascist,” because if you did I would have a serious problem. If you use the term “Islamist” alone then that would be more acceptable. Though again it would depend on whatever sentiment you expressed alongside that word.
Let’s see how polite Gili has been to me in his previous comments in this thread:
“self-hating Jew”
“so-called Jewish pe[rson]”
“bad…Jew
“poppet [sic] Jew”
“pacifist”
“your own personal blindness”
You have a lot of f(&%(n’ never is all I can say.
What is this obsession of people like you with politeness?? You surely are a very selective reader not to have read the ocean of bile & spite (some of it from you personally) directed at me by almost all the 40 or so hellions who came here from LGF bent on savaging me.
Besides, if you find me rude that’s your own look-out. I don’t run this site for your reading pleasure or comfort.
This ludicrous statement (& your ludicrous belief that his threat could actually happen) remind me of the New Yorker profile from the early 1980s of Soviet-era ‘men in the street” (& women) about their attitudes toward their own country and the U.S. Several of the interviewees said that their country would eventually annihilate us. Sure, it was chilling at the time because then we didn’t know that the CIA had been selling us a sack of lies about Soviet military capability. And look at the Soviet Union now. Besides the fact that it doesn’t exist. The Russian army couldn’t fight its way out of a paper bag, much less annihilate the U.S.
That’s the same way I feel about such vacant Palestinian threats. Unlike you, I deal with reality. How much of a real threat do Palestinians, even the worst of the militants or even Hezbollah for that matter, pose to Israel’s existence. None.
You misrepresent that Camp David negotiation. It offered roughly 90% of what Arafat demanded. Would you accept a negotiation regarding our country in which the other side offered us 90% of our territory leaving out a few small bits like New York City or Los Angeles?
Are you just ignorant or a willful idiot? Mahmoud Abbas has never indicated he insisted on receiving 100% of the Occupied Territories. In fact, most initiatives like Geneva and even the Saudi 2002 proposal make allowance for small territorial adjustments by which Israel might retain a few of the largest settlement blocs in return for exchanging some of the Negev.
Regarding negotiation, how is it “negotiation” when Israel refuses to even meet with any Palestinian representative for serious negotiations. You can’t test what your enemy’s positions are unless you actually sit down face to face & discuss the issues dividing you. It’s not Abbas’ fault this hasn’t happened. It’s Sharon’s & Olmert’s. In other words, your contentions about what Palestinians will or won’t accept are baseless because you simply don’t know unless you negotiate.
Are you in favor of final status talks between Israel and Palestine? If not, then you’re a damn hypocrite to accuse the Palestinians of having supposedly extreme or unrealistic negotiating positions. Gili probably refuses to negotiate with Palestinians because he claims they don’t negotiate in “good faith” (whatever the hell that means). That’s simply a convenient way of getting out of the inconvenient bind that makes you look bad when you refuse to negotiate with an enemy who constantly states his willingness to do so.
Alas, now I know you’re an idiot. “Nazi Germany” was a term used by the German Nazis themselves. To this day, Germans continue to use this term to describe the government that ruled them from 1933 to 1945. “Islamo fascist” is a term that is not used by any Muslim that I know. Not only is it deeply pejorative and only used by those who hate Islam like you & LGF, it insults all Muslims. And you are an ignorant, hateful swine to try to defend its usage.
You are being fatally disingenuous. The vast majority of people who use this detestable phrase believe that all Islam is a dirty disgusting religion. You are either misinformed or willfully blind to argue otherwise.
Wrong again. “Fascism” is a term that is always associated with a statist ideology. No state, not fascism. Since Islamic extremists reject the western notion of states, it is a distortion to associate fascism with Islam. Besides, the very phrase ISLAMO fascist deliberately associates the religion of Islam with fascism thereby refuting yr argument.
Most Muslims do not believe that Bin Laden represents an accurate portrayal of Islam. The believe that his views constitute a willful distortion of their religion. Besides, Bin Laden & his followers are a minuscule proportion of the world’s Muslims. You make the stupid mistake of painting Bin Laden as a true representative of Islam when he is no such thing.
Richard,
How can you claim that Muslim mothers love their children as much as Jewish mothers when you have these kinds of things going around?
Iran used children to clear minefields with their bodies:
google.ca/search?q=iran+children+clear+mines+wrap
Palestinian mothers hope their children grow up to become martyrs:
google.ca/search?q=palestinian+mother+martyr
You claim Israel didn’t try negotiating with Palestinians because Abbas wasn’t given a fair chance. First of all, Arafat was given numerous “fair chances” and yet you discard this completely. Secondly, Abbas *was* given a fair chance when Israel pulled out fully from Gaza. What did we get in return? Missiles and more suicide bombings and promises to train terrorists in the west bank to do the same. Abbas repeatedly declared the Gaza pullout was the result of the martyrs’ efforts (i.e. suicide bombings): blog.camera.org/archives/2005/08/what_about_the_1.html
You don’t even have to believe my references, there are countless other sources which will show you the same thing.
When you discuss the Saudi “peace plan” you conveniently neglect to mention that it requires Israel to allow all “refugees” to enter it, thereby eliminating the country by swamping it full of hostile Muslim forces who will automatically gain voting rights and complete their destruction of the Jews.
You argue that Bin Laden represents the views of a minority of Muslims yet poll after countless poll show that the majority of Muslims living in Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and obviously Saudi Arabia support him and his views. Just because they do not actively participate in attacks does not mean they do not offer political and material support to extremists, which they do day after day. Muslims in Canada (and elsewhere in the world) repeatedly try to pass Sharia law and are repeatedly rejected by the non-Muslim population. If this does not represent the views of the majority, how come polls show otherwise and they keep on making so much noise about it?
When the recently Lebanon war broke out there were countless cars driving around with Lebanon flags but not a single car carrying an Israeli car. Do you know why? Because we Jews know that if we put up an Israeli flag on our car, someone will smash it. There has been another firebombing attack on an elementary school in Montreal, the second in two years. How often do you find Jews firebombing Muslim institutions? In Canada, not a single Jew was arrested with this charge. On the other hand, Muslims have been arrested for torching Jewish schools and synagogues repeatedly in the past years.
It doesn’t matter if the majority of Muslims are not active in these attacks because at the end of the day there are enough of them doing it that it amounts to a systematic attack on Jewish people and they’ve been doing *nothing* to stop it or appologize for it in years. And this is in Canada. When Muslims attack Jews in Canada for their percieved injustices in Israel that is pure and utter racism because Jews living outside of Israel have absolutely no relation to Jews living in Israel. There are very many Jews just like yourself who consistently demonstrate that not all Jews are pro-Israel so their attacks on our institutions are racist. And yet, no one is holding them accountable.
All I am expecting Muslims to do is step up to the plate and publically announce that the views of Ben Ladin and other extremists are contrary to their beliefs and are wrong. Left-wing Jews consistently do this with regards to Israel. I might disagree with them but the fact of the matter is they do it. There are an estimated 12 million Jews in the world and an estimated 1.6 billion Muslims. I am expecting that for every Jew who speaks out against Israel there should be 133 Muslims speaking out against Ben Ladin. Clearly, this isn’t the case, which is why I feel justified in criticizing them.
Your mind and heart (if you even possess them) are so impoverished that you cannot grant a fellow human being the right to call themselves human. If you have children yourself and you make such an abhorrent claim, then you have no heart. If you do not have children yourself and make such a claim then you are an ignorant fool. Which is it?
Get this through yr feeble brain: Arafat is DEAD lo these many yrs. Abbas has been the head of the PA for a good long time. Abbas is not Arafat–I know this concept is hard for you to accept since by some apparent transmigration of souls Arafat has apparently inhabited Abbas’ body. Or is it merely that Abbas is channeling Arafat? Abbas has different political views than Arafat. But how would you or the Israeli government know since both refuse to engage in negotiation.
You are truly out of yr mind. What kind of “chance” was he given? Did Sharon share even a single word w. him regarding the disengagement, let alone negotiate? Did Sharon ever do anything whatsoever either to support or even acknowledge Abbas’ existence? Don’t make me laugh!
Yes, that’s what Israel gets for foolishly believing that unilateralism (that is, pretending that the Palestinians don’t exist & that Israel can impose its will on them at will) would work. It won’t. Only a full negotiation between the 2 parties as equals will work. BTW, those missiles (which have largely stopped flying) were fired by renegade Palestinian groups like Islamic Jihad & the PRC which are under no one’s control & certainly not Abbas’, who decries them whenever they are fired. As for the suicide bombings, that’s old news fella. There hasn’t been one in ages because Hamas, which used to use this tactic, has largely observed a ceasefire for nearly 2 yrs.
So you mean to tell me that Sharon pulled out of Gaza merely out of the goodness of his heart? You can argue that he came to understand the demographic threat of the Palestinians to Israel being a majority Jewish state & so decided to relinquish the non-critical territory that Israel held. That might have held some weight for him. But the fact that Gaza caused Israel nothing but grief (just as Lebanon 1982-2000 did) played a factor in the withdrawal. If you deny this you are burying yr head in the sand.
Phew! Thank God for that.
You provide no source to authenticate what you say so I don’t choose to accept yr word at face value (though I wouldn’t deny what you say is possible). But the main pt. is that as I’ve said umpty ump times here at this blog, any plan is a STARTING POINT, not an end pt. Only the pro-Israel hacks believe the end result of the negotiation must be agreed upon before talks actually begin.
No one, Arab or Israeli, who genuinely wants to see a final settlement believes that at the end Israel will agree to several hundred thousand Palestinians returning to their ancestral homes in Israel. Only someone of willful bad faith like you posits this as a view that is held by Abbas or any other front line state leader who would negotiate a settlement with Israel (as opposed to Arab radicals who may indeed believe in full Right of Return but who will play no role in actual negotiations between the parties).
You can claim the moon is made out of blue cheese. That doesn’t make it so. Show me actual, reliable poll results (not from MEMRI or CAMERA or the Jerusalem Post) that say what you claim.
SOME Muslims, NOT THE MAJORITY, in Canada attempt to make Sharia the law for their fellow Muslims (not all Canadians). Pls. again show me a single poll that says the majority of Canadian Muslims support Sharia law. Until you do, you’re full of s(&t.
I can’t make head nor tails of what you’re actually trying to say. Ah, after reading more I see you’re talking about Canada. Did YOU fly an Israeli flag fr. your car? If not, why not? And did you ever stop to think that the majority of yr fellow Canadian Jews might’ve actually been ashamed of Israel’s behavior in Lebanon & not wanted to be publicly identified w. it? I’m virtually certain this is the case in this country. Except for a single rally here in Seattle I saw no public expression of support for Israel. The reason is that most Jews were at best ambivalent about what was happening; and at worst they were aghast. You of course are in a distinct minority in yr full-throated support for mass murder of Lebanese civilians. And before you jump to conclusions, I in no way supported Hezbollah’s attacks on innocent Israeli civilians.
And you know the perpetrators were Muslims how?
There is Jewish terrorism (attacks on people and on property) against Palestinians relatively frequently in the Occupied Territories.
A source??
IF Muslims in Canada attack Jews then you are absolutely right. They have no right to mistake Canadian Jews for Israelis and their policies. Their grievance is with Israel and not with you or your fellow local Jews. But I’d like to see legitimate media sources for yr charge before I believe this is the case.
I AM pro-Israel, just not a flag-waving Israel partisan like you. If you amended your statement to say “Many Jews like yourself who are critical of Israel…” then I would agree with you completely. It is wrong for any Muslim to confuse all Jews or all Israelis with the bad deeds of a group like the settlers or even the Israeli government. But in just the same way, it is wrong of you to conflate the actions & beliefs of a minority of Muslims with the whole of Islam.
I have posted a link here in this blog to an entire site devoted to publicizing denunciations of terror by leading Muslim leaders including clerics and laypeople. Muslims do precisely what you believe they do not do. That shows how narrow & insular yr views of Islam are.
You ARE a piece of work aren’t you? Is all you’re interested in proving that Muslims are bad? Or are you genuinely interested in learning about Muslims & encouraging dialogue so they would be willing to see Jews in a more favorable light? If all you’re interested in is scoring pts.–& anyone who says he expects 133 Muslims to speak out against terror for every Jew who does is interested in nothing but scoring anti-Muslim debate pts.–then you’re pathetic & boring.
hahahaha! Richard, try actually answering my questions this time around. Abbas was in charge of the PA when Israel pulled out of Gaza. Then Hamas once he lost elections to them. Regardless of the crap you wrote the fact of the matter is Palestinians launched hundreds of rockets at Israel after it pulled out of Gaza when in fact they could have acted like normal human beings and happily declare independance and try to live in peace with their neighbors. If unilateralism is so bad I guess Israel should go back into Lebanon since they shouldn’t have withdrawn back in 2000 eh?
Both Abbas and Hamas had their chance to accept Gaza and role peacefully or continue their terrorist attacks. They chose the latter and this is a fact that you cannot ignore.
Secondly, I will keep on repeating this point to you until you answer it: if there are 133 Muslims for every Jewish person on the face of the earth, why is it we don’t have 133 Muslims condemning violence by their people for every Jew who does? It doesn’t even have to be 133 Muslims for every Jew, a single one to one would be a start. Fact of the matter is that these numbers do *not* exist hence you can’t claim Muslims are as peace-loving as you claim. Where is your wondering Religion of Peace Richard? Where? :)
How many Muslims have been convicted by their peers of commiting attacks against Jews and have gone to jail for it? Your blog seems to rejoice in naming Jews who have been found guilty of attacks Muslims and have been put in jail but that proves my point even further: we put our extremists in jail, yet they do not put theirs away. I challenge you to link to cases where Muslims have put their extremists in jail for attacking Jews. I’d love to see that. The only justice they seem to love is publically executing Palestinians who they claim collaborated with Israel. And in Canada and Europe they execute anyone who voices views opposing to them.
Jyllands-Posten posts cartoons of Muhammad to prove the point that people fear violent Islamists so much that they self-censor. All the bombings and killings that followed as a response to the publishing of these cartoons are proof of how right he was. Now these same idiots are busy condemning the pope for pointing out the fallacy of engaging in violence in the name of religion. So again they will burn buildings and kill people and in the end prove yet again how peaceful their Religion of Peace really is. Fact of the matter is you don’t see Jews or Christians doing the same when cartoons routinely make fun of the pope or Jews. We don’t burn down local Iranian institutions every time they incite violence against Jews.
Richard, I have no doubt you will continue mocking anything I write regardless of its validity because deep down inside you know you can’t win a debate on them.
Muslims firebombing Jewish schools in Montreal? Here’s your proof: cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/01/18/firebombsentence-jewishschool0118.html
and more recently: cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/09/02/school-firebomb060902.html
A recent EU report states as much: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/report_index.html
You can find it in PDF format from other sources using Google: google.ca/search?q=%22manifestations+of+anti-semitism+in+the+european+union%22
There is only ONE way that the rockets will end & Israel will live in peace with its neighbors: return to 1967 borders & end the Occupation. Palestinian violence of one kind or another will continue until this happens. There is no shortcut & Gaza withdrawal was certainly meant as a “shortcut” by Sharon. But it didn’t work, as would a West Bank “convergence” or whatever Olmert’s calling it these days fail as well. “Declare independence?” Again, you’re out of yr mind. What would their independence consist of? Would they have freedom of movement? An independent economy? No, they’re a bantustan surrounded by a strangling IDF. This would be sovereign independence? I have to laugh.
Here’s how things work here. I give you license to comment at this blog. If you don’t like what you read or what I say to you go away. But if you choose to stay you will NOT talk to me that way. If you do again, you lose yr license & will be here anymore. Your choice.
This is so mixed up I don’t know where to begin. You don’t have the first clue about the difference bet. Lebanon & Palestine. Israel makes no claim to Lebanese territory as it does to Palestinian territory. When it withdrew in 2000 it withdrew from all Lebanese territory (except Shebaa Farms which may be Syrian & not Lebanese). Because of this there was relatively little friction bet. Israel & Hezbollah till last July.
However the Gaza withdrawal was totally diff. It was not a complete withdrawal fr. all disputed Palestinian territory. If Israel did unilaterally withdraw from all disputed Palestinian territory I’m sure that would resolve the Israeli Palestinian conflict. I’m certain that’s not something you intend.
No, it’s no ‘fact.’ It’s a lie. ABBAS has never supported any terrorist attack ever. Hamas has not supported or perpetrated a terrorist attack in nearly two years (w. the exception of the Shalit kidnapping). I’ve already told you this. Is it that you don’t read, you don’t understand, or you don’t believe claims that can be verified by both reality & thousands of references in the mainstream media?
No, you won’t. I have answered yr twerpy, noxious screed about the 133 Muslims & I won’t respond to it again. Bring it up again & you lose yr license.
Have you ever heard of Google? Before you spout nonsense, try using it to answer yr own stupid claims. A search on “Muslims denounce Muslim terror” brings up 10 pages worth of results some of which are:
Germany: Muslims Denounce Terrorism
American Muslims and Scholars denounce Terrorism
“It Is Not the Islamic Way’: Muslims Denounce Terrorist Acts”
Muslim Condemnations of 9/11
Iraqi Urges Muslims to Denounce Terror
‘Nuf said.
You’ve got to be kidding. Israeli settlers who spit on, push, club, & beat up Palestinians receive no punishment whatsoever. The Palestinians have learned it’s not even worth reporting such incidents because a) they won’t be investigated & b) the Israeli Border Police who do come to the scene are just as likely to continue the beating or attack using far more savage means. When you can show me an Israeli settler who’s sent to prison with a sentence commensurate w. his crimes then I’ll entertain yr question.
You’re insane. You think I rejoice in Jews killing Muslims? You think I find something enjoyable in Baruch Goldstein spraying automatic rifle fire & killing 29 Palestinians? You think I enjoy any such violence based on hate (whether of one side or the other). You’ve truly lost yr senses. When such incidents happen I write about them because they turn my stomach & because I do not want any Muslim (or any human being) to think that they represent a “Jewish” approach to this conflict.
We only put extremists in jail who kill Israelis–like Yigal Amir. Israelis who kill Palestinians if they get any sentence, get extremely light ones. If they’d killed Israelis their sentences would be much more severe (that’s the only reason that Amir has received a life sentence). That’s because Palestinian blood is far cheaper than Israeli.
More baseless accusations. A source??
You will not call Muslims “idiots” in this blog. Do it again & you’ll be banned. Since you’ve used the term first, it’s you who is the idiot. Muslims condemn the pope for quoting from a moldering 14th century emporer who made the ridiculous claim that whatever new Mohammed brought to the world is based on violence & hatred. It is this patently false claim that Muslims correctly object to.
And by the way Pope Benny has a lot of goddamn nerve clucking at Muslims about violence in the name of religion. His boys marched through Germany on their way to kill Muslims in the Holy Land during the Crusades. They tuned up for the battles by killing thousands of defenseless Jews in their path. And if that’s not bad enough. Merry Old Kind Ferdy & Queen Isabella really put the screws to those Jews who hadn’t already fled for their lives during the Spanish (Catholic) Inquisition. Those Jews who stayed behind & tried to pass for Catholic they rooted out mercilessly & tore limb fr. limb on the rack. They were called Marranos or “pigs.” Or how ’bout the Church’s deafening silence while Jews were being slaughtered in their millions during the Holocaust. And the Church’s providing a lifeline for scores of SS goons allowing them to escape Europe after the war by fleeing to Latin America. So Benny’s the pot calling the f-ing kettle black on this one.
I will mock you when you talk narischkeit which unfortunately is virtually any time you open yr mouth on this subject.
You’re a raving loon who’s taken leave of his senses. Not a single argument you’ve advanced here–except for the single valid point about Muslims making a mistake in blaming all Jews for the crimes of a small minority among us–makes a single bit of sense. I’m not debating you chum. I’m pointing out to any readers who read this thread what an utter fool you are.
That’s reprehensible behavior which should be punished. Now you’ve proved that a single deranged Muslim has attacked a Jewish institution. Precisely how does that reflect on all Canadian Muslims? Have you bothered to include any links to the statements by Canadian Muslims denouncing this hateful incident? If not, why not? Might it be that denunciations of violence by Muslims don’t fit into yr convenient hateful bubble of reality when it comes to Islam??
Regarding anti-Semitism among Muslims. It’s foolish to deny it exists. As it is also foolish to deny that hatred of Arabs exists within Israeli society as well. When polls by Israelis of Israeli attitudes show there is no anti-Arab prejudice in Israel then I’ll take to the ramparts with you in denouncing Muslim anti-Semitism. Not that I minimize this phenomenon. It’s worth combating. As it is worth combating Israeli anti-Arab prejudices. When you do the latter, then I’ll join you in yr fight. Until then, you’re just a 2 bit hypocrite.
You’ve proven my point by threatening to censor my comments if I express beliefs which do not jive with your own. How is that freedom of speech?
There was no “occupation” back in the 1920s when local Muslims decided to massacre the Jews. There was no “occupation” in Gaza when Israel withdrew all its soldiers and civilians from it. There was no “occupation” in Lebanon between the years 2000 and 2006 when Hezbollah decided to shell Israeli towns, kill our soldiers and kidnap them. Peddling the term “occupation” is just an excuse for carrying out heinous murders in the name of nationality and religion.
It is downright racist for Palestinians (and their supporters) to insist on the one hand that Muslims be given equal rights as Jews in Israel yet at the same time refuse to allow any Jews to live in their land. Some settlers have openly asked to live as citizens of a future Palestinian state and the PA would have nothing of it. Why must Muslims be given equal rights in western nations when they refuse to give westerners equal rights in their own nations? In most Muslim countries, trying to convert Muslims to Christianity is punishable by death. Christians and Jews do not have equal rights in Saudi Arabia as Muslims. As I pointed out earlier, Muslim nations worldwide have refused to prosecute their extremists in a court of law. Contrary to your allegations, Israel has repeatedly investigated any complaints against its Army and citizens and those found to be guilty were put in jail. I don’t argue you have to be happy with the number of people found guilty but at the very least they even bothered investigating it. The PA has never bothered bringing up charges against suspected terrorist members even when Israel has repeatedly provided them with information to back up its claims. How many Muslims have gone to jail for their violent attacks on Israel?
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My blog is not the town square, it’s not your local newspaper, it’s not the halls of Congress. There you have First Amendment rights. You don’t have the foggiest idea about what blogs are & how they differ fr. those other forums. I am under no obligation to suffer your outrageous hateful expressions. My blog, my rules. The rules for comments are clearly inscribed right above the box you use here to write yr screeds here:
If you don’t like ‘em don’t comment. If it really pisses you off that I won’t let you call Muslims “idiots,” well then you can take a hike. If however, for God only knows what reason, you think it’s worthwhile commenting here you’ll abide by my rules.
God forbid, if you had a blog and I wanted to comment there (ahem) I’d expect to follow yr rules. If I didn’t like ‘em I’d leave.
What are you on? No Occupation in Gaza when Israel withdrew? Israel controlled virtually everything that happened in Gaza and still does. Nothing goes in or out w/o Israeli approval. No Gazan moves w/o Israeli approval. Israel moves at will inside Gaza. Israel bombs at will inside Gaza. This was the way it was pre-Withdrawal and the way it is to this very day. You clearly do not have a clue what life is or was really like for Gazans. There doesn’t have to be a single IDF soldier in that place for it still to be fully controlled by Israel. That’s the way it was & that’s the way it is. And that IS Occupation.
You’ve made my point precisely. There was no Israeli presence inside Lebanon during that period and that is why the border was relatively quiet.
Hezbollah attacked Israel for many reasons in July. One reason was the thousands of Lebanese prisoners Israel holds & has held for decades. Another was Israel’s retention of Shebaa Farms. And third was Israel’s cold shoulder to Syria regarding resolving the issue of the Golan. There was absolutely no interest on Olmert’s part in negotiating any of these issues. That is why Hezbollah attacked.
You’ve completely bollixed up what Palestinians want. They want a state of their own and the return of their lands. Anything else is secondary including the idea (wherever did you get this idea from anyway?) that they insist on equal rights for Israeli Arabs within Israeli society. Besides, you pro-Israel hacks are the first ones to claim that Israeli Arabs already have equal rights. You mean to say you’re acknowledging that they don’t??
That is another lie. Palestinian leaders have said explicitly that any Israeli wishing to remain in the Territories after Palestine assumes control would be welcome there. Remember, Google is yr friend. Do another search & you’ll find this confirmed. However, such holdovers would be living under Palestinian & not Israeli law. I don’t know of a single settler who’d be willing to accept such terms except perhaps Rabbi Menachem Froman.
Because the constitutions of those nations say that they should. That’s why.
Another lie. This blog is full of posts and links to cases in which IDF troops and settlers have committed heinous acts against Palestinians and gotten off SCOT FREE. The IDF DOES NOT investigate abuses of Palestinian rights by its forces. There are hundreds of links I can provide you to the Israeli press which confirm what I’m saying. In fact, I just read this in today’s Haaretz:
At most, only a very small handful of cases are prosecuted. This only happens when there is incontrovertible evidence like video footage proving the incident. Are you saying that Yediot Achronot and Haaretz–whose reporters are far more knowledgeable about these issues than you– lie?
And how are Israel’s pathetic lapses when it comes to policing its forces somehow justified by the fact that Palestinians do an equally poor job at policing their own? Are we now claiming that Israel’s only obligation is to match or exceed the woefully bad record of our enemies? No, Israel has laws and standards on these matters which it ignores. That is all that matters.
I have absolutely no interest in arguing ancient history regarding the Israeli-Arab conflict. If you want to argue about what happened in 1920 or 1020, you’ll have to try to provoke someone else into such an argument.