11 thoughts on “Israel’s Secret Police Maintain Massive Database on All Citizens with Little Oversight – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. ” All this neglects the key objection: if other democratic societies struggling against terror have not resorted to Israel’s methods, why couldn’t Israel do the same? ”

    Well thats a no-brainer.

    Democratic scocieties struggle against terror differently.

    Germany’s struggles with terrorism is different than Israel’s struggle with it’s enemies; which list includes, the Republic of Iran, Lebanese Hezbollah, Iranian proxy forces in Syria and Iraq, Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

    Germany has only to deal with terror cells who use small weapons, and bombs, whereas Israel’s enemies have jets, surveillance equipment, drones and many, many missiles.

    1. @ Lemontree:

      Democratic scocieties struggle against terror differently.

      Israeli isn’t a democratic society. So yes, it does struggle with terror differently than other western democracies.

      Israel’s enemies have jets, surveillance equipment, drones and many, many missiles.

      Stuff & nonsense. Israel’s enemies are countries, not terrorists. Germany is not fighting wars with countries as Israel is. BTW, what Israeli enemy has jets or drones that have posed a serious threat to it?

      Don’t bother answering those questions. And no need to respond further in this thread.

  2. Now wait a moment, Richard.

    According to the NYTimes article, “It was supposed to be approved by Parliament’s Secret Services Subcommittee on Monday but the subcommittee ended its discussions after 4 p.m. — when a new Parliament was sworn in — without holding a vote.”

    It was a procedural irregularity in the Knesset that forced Netanyahu to use emergency regulations allowing for the use of the data, and, this being a health crisis, and time being of the essence, Netanyahu had to act decisively.

    That being said, it is really unfair of you to say, “This is the behavior of a police state, not of a democratic state,

    But more importantly, “Mr. Netanyahu then said the government would approve emergency regulations on Monday night that would allow for the use of the data for a limited period of 30 days, with the permission of the attorney general.”

    So this new metadata collection is only for 30 days, and it is subject to the permission of the A.G.

    You didn’t say that in either this article or the Middle East Eye article..

    1. @ Lemontree: Netanyahu was not “forced” to do anything. If his lackey running the Knesset had not shut it down, the new intelligence committee could easily have met and deliberated on the measure. But it couldn’t because of the shutdown. Netanyahu didn’t have to do anything, health crisis or not. He subvertied legislative oversight, the act of a dictator.

      As for the time limit for use of The Tool, another version of this offered a 60 day limit. But even with the claim of a limit, it’s irrelevant. First, Israeli authorities will do what they want to do. If they want to use it beyond 30 or 60 days, they will. Further, the database exists in perpetuity, ready to be abused and exploited by anyone, for any reason, at any time. The constraints and so-called limitations governing its use are cosmetic.

      Again, no need to respond any further in this thread.

  3. כל המציל נפש אחת כאילו הציל עולם שלם

    “In Israel, the sick, like the canary, are dying not just from Covid-19, but from the death of their rights as citizens.” – the sick will die not only from their disease but from the collapse of the healthcare system like it is happening right now in Italy and Spain.
    As usual, extreme leftists such as yourself are stuck in the ideal universe which is quite different then the world the rest of us live in. Yes, we sacrifice some privacy but I’m glad to give it up temporary so my elderly parents have a better chance to stay alive. I guess your priorities are different than mine.

    1. @carmel yativ: As I’ve repeated ad infinitum to knuckleheads like you on Twitter: hospitals don’t kill people, viruses do. Health care systems are not “collapsing.” They are under huge stress, but not collapsing. Nor would Israel collapse if it refused to resort to technology that massively violated citizens’ rights to privacy. But your argument is interesting: as a society we must ignore individual rights otherwise society will collapse from the virus. Actually, your society will collapse from the weight of its violation of the rights of its citizens!

      Only a Judeo-fascist like you would call me an “extreme leftist.” What does that even mean? I shouldn’t ask you because you don’t know what the F*k you’re talking about: because I believe in human rights, gender equality, democracy, economic justice? That’s “extreme leftism?” Bernie Sanders is an “extreme leftist?” What are you smokin’?

      And no, I don’t believe in an ideal universe. In fact I believe in a reality in which there is justice and equality for all. Not Israel’s reality. Which is why you don’t recognize it as reality. But there are nations in the world in which such values are aspired to, if not realized. Your country ? Not so much.

      BTW, you don’t “sacrifice some privacy.” You sacrifice all your privacy. You don’t have any. Nadav Argaman knows what you ate for breakfast, when you last visited your doctor, whether you have cancer, whether you’re a good father or not, whether you cheated on your wife. He knows everything about you. And if he doesn’t, but wanted to, he could learn everything about you in a matter of minutes.

      Your elderly parents won’t extend their lives by a minute or even a second if the Shabak compiles a database of every Israeli citizen. So don’t give me that horses*t that I don’t care about your parents. I care about them and the society and world your lot is poisoning with its algorithmic toxins.

  4. Dear Richard
    When IDF screams that they are the most ethical army in the world, you know it’s a lie thru and thru
    When Israel screams it’s the ONLY democracy in the middle east, you know it’s a lie thru and thru
    in the age of the politicians being bought by a plate of sand, and ex-military knocking at any tin pot dictator offering ways to kill their opposition for 2 pennies, why wouldn’t the state try to quash EVERYONE that has no access to their bribes in any way possible,
    american jews havent peeped at the excrement that goes by israel abomination government led and fed for and by racists.
    i hate you to be the Israel Khashoggi out of naivete. be careful not to fall yourself in a trap like this, I am sure the state would be more than satisfied to get you to bite the bait.
    Israel is a theocracy bought and fed by abominations of the like of Adelsons etc .. and yet all of them would EVER EVER consider residing in this hellhole that they so gladly sink dirty money in it.
    Democracy , hah! they forgot how to spell it
    good luck with the likud trolls now that they are locked in.

  5. “hospitals don’t kill people, viruses do. Health care systems are not “collapsing.” They are under huge stress, but not collapsing.”

    And you know with certainty that they will not collapse? Are you willing to take that risk? What kills people is when not everyone can get the best treatment because there are too many ICU patients. And that is what doctors in Italy describe.

    The most important thing right now is to minimize the number of people infected so the hospitals can provide good care to whomever need it. You ignore the price in human life your lenient approach takes. At no point you were willing to look at the fact life are very likely to be saved due to these measures. Your human-rights ideology is so extreme you forget the people it is meant for.

    1. @ carmel yativ:

      And you know with certainty that they will not collapse?

      If hospitals collapse it is much more likely it is because doctors and nurses are lacking the facilities and equipment needed to treat patients. Mass surveillance is not a cure for this. The cure is for governments to provide the needed infrastructure, personnel, and equipment to properly address the epidemic. No database can replace these inadequacies.

      Medical systems around the world are addressing the crisis fully. Even in NYC, hardest hit of all cities in the U.S., the system is not buckling though it is hard-pressed.

      You ignore the price in human life your lenient approach takes.

      What a fake you are. The Tool does not value human life. Shabak, if it values human life at all, only values Israeli Jewish life. Using The Tool to diagnose Coronavirus does not show respect for human life. And don’t you dare say I don’t value human life. Don’t you ever. I put you on notice. You are within an inch of banning.

      Your human-rights ideology

      Human rights are not an “ideology.” Human rights are a core foundational principle of democratic society. The fact that you outrageously insult the value of human rights confirms that you are what I call you earlier, a Judeo-fascist. You’re living on borrowed time here…

      Do not comment in this thread again.

  6. Noam Chomsky dodged a bullet not emigrating to Israel. (For those who haven’t read the Robert Barsky biography of Chomsky, he spent some time on a kibbutz in the 1950s, disliked how the Palestinian laborers were being treated. He went to work at MIT instead.)

    So when will everybody start referring to Netanyahu as Big Brother? Will the cameras come in the wall-mounted TV sets? Are you out there Winston Smith?

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