50 thoughts on “Terror Rules Jerusalem – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.

  1. ” (….) in the occupied East Jerusalem neighborhood of Har Nof (largely populated by Haredi Jews).”
    Richard, I think Har Nof is in West Jerusalem. It’s partly built on land belonging to the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin as far as I’ve read.

      1. Deir Yassin aka Har Nof is not even close to the Green Line/Armistice Line from 1949, in fact it’s more or less halfway between the Northern and the Southern Armistice line surrounding Jerusalem, right in the middle,

  2. I’m certainly no expert in forensics, but it seems to me that if a corpse is hanging against a wall, blood might pool at the point where the skin is pressed the hard surface. Mere conjecture.

    1. @ Black Canary: “Mere conjecture.” Nothing is “mere” with hasbarists like you. You want to support the suicide theory. Good luck to you.

      He was NOT pressed against a wall or hard surface. He was hanging from a metal bar in a bus.

      1. I believe the driver’s corpse was found in the stairwell of the bus, which makes it more likely that his body abutted a hard surface.

    2. Nope black canary. The blood pools where gravity sends it. Your mere conjecture is uniformed. I am not an expert in this matter but have attended a number of forensic autopsies where the medical examiner explained things like post and pre mortem wounds and where blood pools after death.

  3. “…Not to mention that suicide is exceedingly rare in Palestinian society and suicide by hanging even rarer”.

    Do you have any statistics to back this claim up? Because it’s wrong. Yes, it is true that someone taking his own life brings shame upon one’s family in Palestinian society (not if he blows himself up on an Israeli bus of course, then he’s a hero) – but that does not mean it does not happen. And it happens quite often.

    Here’s what Palestinian author Nadia Dabbagh writes in her paper “Behind the Statistics: The Ethnography of Suicide in Palestine”: “…statistics gathered from the Ramallah region of the West Bank in Palestine painted an apparently remarkably similar picture to that found in Western countries such as the UK and France. More men than women completed suicide, more women than men attempted suicide. Men used more violent methods such as hanging and women softer methods such as medication overdose. Completed suicide was higher in the older age range, attempted suicide in the younger”

    And here’s a link to the research: http://icph.birzeit.edu/uploads/File/monographs/Parasuicide%20in%20Palestinian%20society%20-Nadia.pdf

    1. @ Boaz: I’m going to tell you something I’ve written here often but which people like you ignore. Before thinking you’re going to catch me out in a gotcha moment, read EVERY link in my post especially links in the very sentence you’re claiming is wrong. You’ll see I linked to a book written by the same academic you quote in which she says that the Palestinian rate of suicide DESPITE the anger, frustration & violence of Occupation, is “lower” than in western countries. Go and read the link. And do not ever again try to contradict me before reading all links. I spend hours writing these posts. The least you could do before betraying your own errors & ignorance is to spend 2 minutes reading the linked article or source.

      This is a summary of her argument in the publisher’s website page devoted to her book:

      Contrary to wider expectations, fatal suicide levels in Palestinian society remain low compared with Western norms, notwithstanding the many stress factors that contribute to suicidal behavior in the West, including unemployment and social deprivation. In particular, suicide is found to be contrary to the concept of Palestinian identity, of a people under siege for whom resistance is paramount, rather than succumbing to depression or despair.

      How do we explain the apparent contradiction? Easy. You’ve cherry-picked a passage which deads with “statistics from the Ramallah region.” The overall suicide rates for ALL of Palestine are not the same as those for Ramallah. Even a small amount of thinking might have prevented you from making this mistake.

    1. @ Black Canary: Doncha just love hasbarists who become pathologists in their spare time. Wherever did you find the time to earn your medical degree, Dr.??

      You wonder where this guy came up with this source. Perhaps the Israeli pathologist on the payroll of the MFA for just such social media warfare??

      1. “You wonder where this guy came up with this source.”

        I googled, ‘suicide..hanging..lividity’, and that was the first source that appeared.

  4. Not discounting the possibility of suicide or murder, but the picture is clearly that of livor mortis. Anyone who has actually examined a dead body should know this. Claiming that these are bruises from a beating is irresponsible and malicious.

    1. @ Shaun: I never claimed they were from a beating. Didn’t you bother to read the post? Or did someone tell you that’s what I wrote and you believed them without even reading it? Either way, sloppy work.

  5. “and at the same time another person may have tied a wire around his neck from behind and cut off oxygen from his brain”

    Wouldn’t that leave a mark around his neck?

  6. @ Richard,

    The Israeli Pathologist went on air today explaining exactly why he claimed what he claimed. He also said that the Palestinian Pathologist was present in the room, overlooking and agreed with their conclusion. He says that this is a classic suicide without any indication of foul play as far has he can judge. He also gave explanation as to why he thinks that’s the case.
    Another thing that is a bit weird is that the pal pathologist is unreachable. The media tried to contact him, the Israeli pathologist said he tried to reach him to see why he made such a claim etc.
    Could it be that he was in some kind of pressure to release a statement saying the bus driver was killed?
    What made him change his mind?

    1. @ shay: I don’t care what the Israeli pathologist said. I don’t care if he said his mother was the Empress of England. I just plain don’t believe him. He can offer his view of the evidence, the corpse. But he can’t speak about what’s in the mind of another living person. That’s not his job. Nor do I trust him to do that.

      The Palestinian pathologist seems quite accessible to Palestinian media where he’s not only made a statement but had it published. Maybe the Israelis aren’t trying hard enough…or maybe they can’t speak Arabic. Or maybe the Palestinian thinks the Israelis are lying and doesn’t feel a need to be pressured. What sort of pressure do you think Israeli authorities could place upon him to get him to renege? I’d guess plenty. I wouldn’t want to talk to them either I were him.

      1. The Palestinian pathologist said that the absence of 1st vertebrae dislocation raises suspicions. In fact, 1st vertebrae dislocation is the hallmark of judicial hangings. The victim’s body is weighted and he drops a length in order to produce this dislocation and instant death. A self induced suicide by hanging should NOT result in a vertebrae dislocation.

        This, and his failure to connect back and buttocks lividity with being laid supine after early discovery of the corpse suggests that this ‘expert’ is deliberately throwing gasoline on fire. He’s further debased his ‘expertise’ by offering the victim’s family the cockamamie theory that the victim was chemically anestetized and than strangled by ‘criminal elements’.

        Oh please. Let’s get real. This Palestinian pathologist is a horror.

        1. @ Black Canary: Where did you get your pathology training my friend? At the University of Google?? I’m not prepared to accept your claim of expertise on any such specialized subject especially when you offer no credible source in support.

          It’s also curious that you, without any pathology expertise describe a pathologist with professional expertise as “cockamamie.” As for being a “horror,” that would be you.

          I’m implementing a comment rule regarding you. If you do not offer credible support for your personal opinions, they won’t be published here. You’re already moderated. Consider yourself warned. Follow the rules regarding expression of opinions on contentious subjects. Or don’t bother commenting.

          It appears the hasbara brigade is really exercised about this case. They’ve come out in full force in ridicule and vituperation. A few comments that were personal insults directed at me I haven’t even published. Eventually as the song lyrics say, there’ll be “nowhere to run, nowhere to hide” for the Israeli authorities. They’ll have to do a better job on this case.

  7. I just came across this:
    Father of accused Abu Khdeir murderer prays at attacked Jerusalem synagogue
    Israeli media suggests a possible revenge motive for Tuesday’s deadly attack.
    The father of the accused murderer of Palestinian teenager Muhammad Abu Khdeir prays regularly at the synagogue targeted by Palestinian terrorists on Tuesday, according to the Israeli daily Maariv.The report suggested a possible revenge motive for the deadly attack. Another report in Israeli media claimed the three suspects in the teenager’s murder have too frequented the synagogue before their arrest.
    Maybe it’s just a coincidence. Anyway, the body of Muhammad Abu Khdeir was found in Jerusalem Forest in Givat Shaul, the neighbourhood just next to Har Nof.

  8. The Palestinians have been left no other choice than either to die upright or to continue living on their knees.

    Is it “apartheid” they have to cope with? The erstwhile doyen among Dutch sociologists, the late Professor Jacques van Doorn, already remarked many years ago that the comparison was actually insulting to the Afrikaners. However misconceived and cruel their policy was they did try, in a fashion, to make of the Bantustans viable units. Israel is doing no such thing. It is doing the opposite in attempting to make life as miserable as possible for Palestinians.

    Ronnie Kasrils, a Jewish South African anti-apartheid activist who became a cabinet minister under the new dispensation, was quoted on the Jews Against Racist Zionism website as follows:

    : “Travelling into Palestine’s West Bank and Gaza Strip, which I visited recently, is like a surreal trip back into an apartheid state of emergency. It is chilling to pass through the myriad checkpoints — more than 500 in the West Bank. They are controlled by heavily armed soldiers, youthful but grim, tensely watching every movement, fingers on the trigger… The West Bank, once 22% of historic Palestine, has shrunk to perhaps 10% to 12% of living space for its inhabitants, and is split into several fragments, including the fertile Jordan Valley, which is a security preserve for Jewish settlers and the Israeli Defence Force. Like the Gaza Strip, the West Bank is effectively a hermetically sealed prison. It is shocking to discover that certain roads are barred to Palestinians and reserved for Jewish settlers. I try in vain to recall anything quite as obscene in apartheid South Africa.” [1].

    “ The occupation reminds me of the darkest days of apartheid, but we never saw tanks and planes firing at a civilian population. It’s a monstrousness I’d never seen before. The wall you built, the checkpoints and the roads for Jews only – it turns the stomach, even for someone who grew up under apartheid. It’s a hundred times worse.” [5].

  9. I’m not a forensic pathologist and so I won’t comment on that. Based on what I’ve read, those questioning the Israeli coroner’s assessment are implying or outright claiming that the bus driver was murdered by Jewish extremists – ie “nationalistically motivated.” However, I don’t see any precedent of a terrorist committing an act of terror and then taking the time to set up the crime scene in order to make it not look like an act of terror. However Hasan Al-Ramuni died, it doesn’t make sense that it was in the furtherance of a nationalistic motive. If someone murdered him, they sure went to a lot of trouble to cover up the murder. If it was Jewish extremists wouldn’t they want people to know that they had murdered a Palestinian in order to sow terror among Palestinians?

    1. @ pea:

      they sure went to a lot of trouble to cover up the murder.

      Not only are you not a forensic pathologist as you correctly noted, you’re not a forensic investigator. Have you never heard of a terror attack for which no terror group or individual took responsibility? Especially when it involves murder? Did the Abu Khdeir settler murderers brag about their crime? Did they announce their pride in what they did? Or did they keep silent until caught?

      And why do you say they “covered up the murder.” If he was murdered they hung him up in full display. They didn’t dump his body in Jerusalem forest. Not making too much sense today I’m afraid.

      1. Ok. Let me try this again. All I really want to know, especially given this discussion that delves into the minutiae of evidentiary matters – what, if any, evidence is there that this death was nationalistically motivated? Or that Jewish extremist elements were involved?

        1. @ pea: It’s the job of the Israeli police to provide evidence to support whatever explanation they offer. So far they’ve offered no credible evidence. By evidence, I mean video or the full findings of the coroner (not a media statement) including a toxicology report. Get that to us then you can carp about whatever you like.

  10. Does it surprise me that a synagogue was targeted? no, does it surprise me that Hamas [allegedly] took responsibility for that attack?, yes.

    If Hamas was behind the attack, it was foolish to do so: targeting civilians is not usually their modus operandi.

    It is understandable that a synagogue would be targeted, though, after all, nothing is off limits for the Israelis’ in their assaults on Palestinian holy sites and civilian targets.

    Do I approve of it? no.

    I do believe that the Palestinians do have a right to armed resistance, however, targeting civilians is not within the legitimate law of armed resistance, both legally and within the tenants of Islam.


    1. Genie

      “If Hamas was behind the attack, it was foolish to do so: targeting civilians is not usually their modus operandi.”

      Hamas has always targeted civilians. What are you talking about?

      1. @ Red Eft:

        Hamas has always targeted civilians.

        Readers, meet our new hasbara handler for the coming days. BTW, I think you’re talking about the IDF, which targeted civilians & killed 1,700 of them during the Gaza war.

        Read the comment rules & follow them extremely carefully. You may not substitute your opinion for views supported by credible evidence. As you haven’t offered any evidence to support your view, you’ve violated the comment rules in your first comment here. Don’t do it again.

  11. This witchhunt of the bus driver is no different than the Khdeir killing this summer. Israelis in their vengeance hunt for an ‘eye for an eye’ kill, and now they are trying to cover it up? What person kills himself at the start of his work day and in the morning? I feel like this is as sloppy as Oscor Pistorius excuses.

    If an ‘eye for an eye’ is the way it’s gonna be in Israel, are we witness to a new strain of ‘judeo-western’ values evolving into some odd realm, where the media can explain to Americans that Israel is on the
    path to righteousness, but they need just one more mission – to conquer Jerusalem, and they will feel safe and secure?

    Sad that Israel is devolving into such a mess, and none of the tribe, especially the diaspora, can put it back on the path – they almost encourage Israelis to further occupy and live out the dream of ‘next year in Jerusalem’.

    thanks for the Haber comment. Refreshing to hear someone who has some sanity left in ‘crazytown’.

  12. A real suicide is also a message to others. If a low paid Palestinian driver in a Jewish bus company makes a suicide in a “Jewish” bus in front of a Jewish settlement, is it a message to Jews or to Palestinians? A message of lifelong bad and unjustified treatment? Also a murder disguised as a suicide is a message to the victims side. It says: do not come to work here in a Jewish company and transport Jews. The clumsy and more or less credible autopsy process by the ruling side, is also a message to the oppressed side. It is: we can do what ever we want and there is nothing you can do to avoid that. We rule the “truth”.

    There is a old joke: A white sheriff found a black man’s body hanging in a barn. The black man had been shot several times in the chest, had two knives sticking out of his back, was severely burned and was hanged with a rope from a rafter. “Worst suicide I have so far seen”, said the sheriff. The reality is that today the Jewish Israel’s credibility is in many ways on the same level that what the southern sheriff in that joke had.

    If one day a Palestinian state exists (with 1967 borders) and hundreds of thousands Jews live there under Palestinian rule (treated with present famous Israeli style) and in a Muslim state (= equal to the Jewish state), how convincing are the Palestinian “explanations” if a Jewish driver is found in a Palestinian company’s bus in front of fast growing Arab settlement inside a old Jewish settlement? Would the instant announcements by the Palestinian police and Palestinian pathologists be credible evidence that it happened as it is said to have happened? Surely Jews would not believe one word.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *