42 thoughts on “After Kerry Calls Erdogan Visit to Gaza Untimely, Turkey Tells Him to Mind His Own *^$@% Business – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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    1. So you’re saying that Israel should be allowed to dictate the affairs of Turkey & expect that Turkey will butt out of Gaza because Israel tells it to? You don’t see any irony in that? I guess you’re not an ironist, though you should be.

      1. The irony is lost on you, Richard. Israel is engaged in an ongoing conflict with the Palestinians (whatever one’s views on it, or on the legality of the blockade of Hamas-ruled Gaza). Turkey is an entirely separate country. Yet you are defending its actions, which are the very definition of meddling, while telling Kerry not
        to meddle with Turkey. You make no sense.

        1. Turkey is not “meddling”. Turkey is engaging in diplomatic activity with Gaza, which has a right to recieve any guest it likes.

          The fact that Israel is trying to strangle Gaza does not give Israel any special right or entitlement to keep anyone, whether peace activists on flotillas or high-profile politicians on state visits, from traveling to Gaza in order to express their solidarity with its people.

          Kerry’s attempts to interfere with the way the Turkish government conducts its own business, however — that is meddling.

          You dare complain about unfair involvement from a third party when America, a completely unrelated and distant foreign power, consistently showers Israel, like a spoilt child, with money and weapons?

          I only wish Turkey would lavish the same attention upon Palestine. Perhaps one day they will.

          1. And if Israel involved itself with Greek Cyprus against Turkey, you would be first in lime to condemn Israel for doing so, and you know it. You would also wail about Israel’s hypocrisy, yet you entirely ignore Turkeys numerous ongoing war crimes, as well as it’s founding genocides, which are many times larger in scale than anything that happened in 1948. But despite all of that, to you, Turkey is a “respectable and honorable country” that should be allowed to engage in “diplomacy” with “whomever it likes”. You’re a disgrace.

          2. @BruceT: Israel already is “involving itself with Greek Cyprus against Turkey.” It is involved with oil exploration in waters controlled by Greek Cypriots. It is contemplating opening a military base on Greek Cypriot territory to protect such investments. The Turks aren’t too happy about that, you know. That may be one reason Erdogan is so happy to needle Bibi by going to Gaza.

            Who’s ignoring Turkey’s human rights violations? BTW, no one’s yet accused Turkey of war crimes, though you’re certainly welcome to do so once you also haul the IDF generals into the dock as well. As for genocide, you should check with Hasbara Central about this because up until 2 years ago the manual said there was no such thing as Armenian Genocide. You ask my “friend,” Avi Mayer, who shills for Natan Sharansky. He hosted a Turkish diplomat at the Univ. of Maryland who denied Armenia genocide. Afterward, Mayer told the campus newspaper that the diplomat’s message was bracing and brilliant.

            Isn’t it interesting that you guys at Central were Holocaust deniers 2 yrs ago & now you’ve become true believers in Armenian genocide.

            As for being a disgrace, that would be you, my friend.

          3. @Richard,
            From your comment, I wasn’t able to get your opinion of the Armenian Genocide.
            can you elaborate?

          4. Why, so we can get into a knock down dragged out debate on an off topic subject? No thanks.

            Go read the post I wrote about Avi Mayer and the U. of Maryland talk. That will give you some idea of my views.

          5. Nimrod, do not expect an intelligent response from Mr. Siverstein. He does not care about the Armenians. Human suffering is just fodder for his stridently ideological world view.

          6. He does not care about the Armenians

            That is a lie, another comment rule violation. I certainly care about them more than Abe Foxman and Avi Mayer, who were Armenian Holocaust deniers when Israel still had friendly relations with Turkey.

            YOu are now moderated. Any subsequent violations will cause you to lose yr comment privileges.

          7. If Netanyahu traveled on a state visit to Greek Cyprus, would I condemn Israel for doing so, and “wail about Israel’s hypocrisy”? No, absolutely not. Why would I? They would be perfectly in their rights to do so.

            Now let’s take apart your other ludicrous statements. First, you can remove your quotation marks around the words “respectable and honorable country”, because neither I, nor anyone else here that I can see, have said that about Turkey. What they are, is a sovereign and free state which has the right to engage in diplomacy with whomever it likes. No-one would deny that, no matter how frustrated they are that Israel can’t gun down Erdogan the way they did with the Mavi Marmara.

            Second, I have never ignored Turkey’s war crimes, nor the Armenian Genocide; in fact, I don’t recall us having a conversation about the subject — which is not so strange, because it has virtually nothing to do with the topics of this blog.

            Do you have any more falsehoods to propose?

        2. Israel is maintaining an illegal Occupation, illegal settlements & an illegal blockade of Gaza. Turkey on the contrary is not violating Israeli law. So Kerry has no right to tell Turkey not to visit Gaza. in doing so, Kerry is attempting to enforce Israel’s illegal siege of Gaza. This is shameful.

          Turkey, rather is seeking to compel Israel to adhere to international laws. A country has a right to lobby for such action in the face of such profligate violations.

        3. If Kerry was even handed, he woukd have visited Gaza.

          There is a conflict but it is one sided. No agreement is possible if the massively more powerful isn’t forced to be fair in the negotiations.

    2. Turkey is a friend to Gaza. Israel is not.

      How about letting the Gazans themselves decide who they want to have relations with? I’m sorry if that does not compute with an imperialist mindset.

    3. @ Nimrod
      And what do you think about the US minding their own business before telling others what to do and not to do.

    4. You’d like that, wouldn’t you?

      If no one paid attention to Israel’s treatment of the Gaza Strip and Palestinians at large.

      Yeah, no. Turkey is morally in the right.

  1. Fits very well in my line of thought for the region’s future. Let the dominos fall.

    After the Benghazi attack last September, today the French embassy in Tripoli has been targeted by a (Salafist) strike. The Gaddafi mercenaries and heavy arms are finding its way throughout North Africa. Anyone follow this news item from Baga, Nigeria on Lake Chad? So it goes. The GCC countries and Saudi Arabia will continue to fund their allies, local militant groups. Quite irritating for the old colonial powers.

  2. I like all this: First: Kerry suggests that the victims of Israel’s attack on Mavi Marmara were innocent victims (as the Marathon bombing victims were) of terrorism or crime (that is, of Israeli terrorism or crime) as the Boston Marathon folks were (that is, they were victims of the terrorism or crime of two young men).

    Second, Kerry advertises the USA’s normal subservience to Israel (briefly overcome or forgotten during Kerry’s Mavi Marmara remarks) in such as way as [1] to have no effect on Turkish behavior w.r.t. Gaza but [2] to anger the Turks and stiffen their backbone and [3] to remind Americans of the assumed puissance of AIPAC/Israel/Adelson et al. — something of which Americans can never (in my view) be reminded enough.

    I must say that I really hate and despair at the thought that America’s (and EU’s I suppose) subservience to big money (the power of very wealthy individuals and the CEOs of major corporations and banks, BIG-ZION, BIG-ARMAMENTS, et al.) is unlikely to be broken even as the vastly ill effects of climate change (that is, the ill effects of the USA’s wealth-determined failure to respond to climate change in time to avert the worst of the disasters) are come upon us. If the USA could kick wealth out of politics in a grand undoing of Citizens United and all other manifwetations of wealth in governance, there might be a way to effect small matters (such as getting out from under AIPAC) and large matters (getting out from under the big banks and starting to get free of the use of fossil fuels so as to avert climate change (in increasingly small part — as we never lose an opportunity to lose an opportunity to take major action against climate change).

    1. I can’t understand why the people of America don’t fight back against having their politicians controled by a foreign country.

      AIPAC essentially decides who gets into parliament.

      Where’s the democracy?

      1. I think, if I understand you, you mean “Congress,” rather than “Parliament.” Aipac doesn’t yet control who gets into the Israeli parliament (it doesn’t need to). So you must mean our own Congress.

  3. The Gaza Strip is governed by an internationally recognized terrorist organization, and the State of Israel maintains a legal naval blockade of the territory. Gaza is not some random country in Asia. It is in a state of war with it’s neighbor, and wishes and supports Israel’s destruction. For Turkey to braeak Israel’s blockade is an
    Act of war, and is the very definition of meddling. And Israel is not strangling Gaza. It’s standard of living is quite respectable, and certain far higher than in the neighboring Arab countries. If Turkeyeddles with Gaza it can and should respect the full and entirely legal retaliation of the State of Israel.

    1. Pls. spare me the details about the wellness in Gaza and its root causes. I heard the speech of favorite son Mitt Romney. It’s obvious we don’t live on the same planet nor speak the same langauge. The UN existed for the State of Israel in 1948 (President Truman crossed out “Jewish” before adding his signature) but not for the Palestinian people. With LBJ in 1967 Israel managed to escape any sanction or obligation from SC resolutions. Israel a pariah state in the universal community of nations? Due to ambivalence of European states, Israel is living in extra time. I ain’t saying it’s easy, but at least go through the motions of accepting peace as option.

    2. The people of Gaza democratically elected Hamas, which Israel once supported as a counterweight to the PLO (you can read about that in the Wall Street Journal, if you like: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html ). They are a terrorist organization in the same way as the ANC or the IRA; and the governments of America, Israel and Britain can no longer expect to bully people into silence by bandying the word “terrorist” around when they themselves perpetrate state terror regularly.

      Hamas is a terrorist organization engaged in a war of resistance against the terrorist state of Israel, which is not its “neighbour”, but its occupier and colonial exploiter. Gaza wishes for Israel’s destruction in the same way that a man who is being strangled wishes the destruction of the man strangling him; what Gaza actually seeks is an end to the stranglehold, an end to the illegal occupation of Palestine, and an end to the racist apartheid against its fellow Palestinians who are citizens of Israel.

      The naval blockade of Gaza is considered illegal by the majority of the world’s experts on international law, and Turkey has every right to “break the blockade”; if you actually imagine, however, that Israel will seek to physically bar Erdogan’s trip to Gaza, you are out of your mind.

      An act of war? Go ahead, then. Let Israel declare war on Turkey, and let’s see what happens.

      Gaza’s “standard of living is quite respectable” — no. Virtually every expert, visitor, and authority in the world, including the very Palmer Report which Israelis love to cite regarding the naval blockade, constates that the humanitarian situation in Gaza is “unacceptable” and “unsustainable”. So you are completely wrong and everyone in the world knows you are wrong, but nice try.

      You are precious.

    3. @ BruceT
      “The Gaza Strip is governed by an internationally recognized terrorist organization”
      Well, in fact, many countries do NOT consider Hamas a terrorist organization.
      The US, Israel of course (being a terrorist state itself….), Canada, Japan, the EU as an supra-national body consider Hamas a terrorist organization.
      Australia and the UK only the military branch, the Izz-al-Din al-Qassam Brigades.
      Norway, South Africa, Brazil, Turkey, Russia, India, China, Venezuela and most of the rest of the world do not consider Hamas a terrorist organization. By the way, Hamas is working on being removed from the European Union’s terrorist list, and have had informal discussions with leaders from various European countries.

      1. He fails to admit, also, that Hamas, as with all other Palestinian resistance organizations, is a reaction to the policies of the Israeli state and the mass apathy of the jewish majority.

        Of course, this fact clashes with Bruce’s view that the Palestinians are all ‘inferior” Arabs who are so “consumed by hatred” and live to “murder jews”.

        Reality doesn’t factor into his way of thinking.

    4. “And Israel is not strangling Gaza. It’s standard of living is quite respectable”-

      Before or after Israel used white phosphorus and heavy ordnance on civilian infrastructure?

      “and certain far higher then in the neighboring Arab countries”

      So you lie about how “humane” Israel is and then act as though the entire Arab world is so “backwards” that the under siege Gaza strip that is attacked by Israel on what seems a yearly basis, has a higher standard of living than other Arab nations? Ha ha, good god. I wonder if you actually believe what you say.

    5. Hamas is not an “internationally recognized terrorist organization.” It is an organization considered so by some nations and not by others. Israel, I would argue has committed far more murders of civilians than Hamas has. Yet Israel is an accepted state while Hamas is singled out for opprobrium ( by some).

      The siege of Gaza is not legal. Rather it violates international law.

      Gaza is not in a state of war against anyone. Rather it is recognized as occupied by standards of international norms since Israel controls virtually every external factor affecting Gaza. Calling Turkey’s involvement in calling attention to Israel’s violations an “act of war” is precisely the sort of lunatic thinking that caused the Mavi Marmara massacre.

      I find you and the nonsense you’re peddling offensive. I won’t tolerate it.

      I’m not going to get into a pissing contest with you on this. We’ve been over this territory many times here & more skillful debaters than you have tried to articulate the false views that you have here.

      This comment is nothing less than propaganda masquerading as argument. I do not allow pro-Israel grandstanding & point-scoring in my conment threads. If that’s yr game go elsewhere.

      If the content & tone of your comments conrptinues along these lines you may lose your comment privileges.

    6. First — Israel is an internationally recognized criminal state, e.g. illegal settlements, occupation, etc. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. Israeli violence against civilians is many orders of magnitude greater than Hamas violence. Moreover, the blockade is aimed at throttling Gaza inasmuch as many cargoes of humanitarian goods are seized and returned. It isn’t about “security”, but about economics. Israel has no right to seize, board and commit murder on the high seas. “Retaliation” for what? Sending harmless goods to people into Gaza? BS. Tell me about the standard of living for the 350 children slaughtered by Operation Cast Lead. How’s their standard of living?

  4. You’re forgetting that Israel also has a right to impose a blockade as a measure of self-defense. Rights go both ways you know: they don’t just cover one country’s right to visit another. Sometimes different rights for different things can come into conflict; this is just such a case, yet for some reason you view Turkey’s right to visit Gaza outweighs Israel’s right to prevent such a visit due to the ongoing conflict between that territory and the sovereign State of Israel.

    If Turkey were in a war with Cyprus and imposed a legal naval blockade, then you would certainly berate Israel for wishing to stand in “solidarity with its people”. Turkey has a right to self-defense as much as Israel does. You are ignoring that aspect in your comparison.

    Israel also happens to have an alliance with the United States, and has nothing to do with our discussion here. However, this alliance is very important to Israel, which is barred from so many other groups such as the Arab League, the African Union, The Non-Aligned Movement, The Organization of the Islamic Conference, the Asia Group, and others. In light of these other massive alliances, which entitles Muslim and Arab countries to still larger alliances with countries such as the Russian Federation and China, the Arab and Muslim states are able to control the United Nations and other international human rights bodies, precluding any fair hearing for the Jewish State. It’s funny how, after all of that, you Israel critics whine about Israel’s alliance with the United States.

    Below you wrote that Turkey has a right to break the blockade? So can Israel shoot down Turkish planes bombing Kurdish villages in Iraq? And what Turkey is doing is far worse, especially in terms of civilian to military casualties ratio. Don’t tell me that Israel would be in its rights to shoot down those planes.

    Finally, the fact is that the title of this post implies a level of respect for Turkey. “Who is the US to tell Turkey what to do?” blah blah blah. The double standard against Israel is blatant.

    1. @BruceT: No, Israel doesn’t have the right to impose a blockade arbitrarily. Nor is there any justification for doing so in terms of a threat to Israel. The blockade doesn’t protect Israel in any way. That’s why Israel has a navy and army. So it can ensure weapons don’t enter Gaza. It doesn’t need a blockade to do so. IT can inspect goods that enter the territory & in this way prevent anything threatening from entering. As it is, Hamas imports all the weapons it needs through the Sinai tunnels.

      In fact, the siege actually strengthens Hamas, which may be what Israel wants.

      There is no “conflict” that justifies Israel preventing Erdogan from entering Gaza. There is an arbitrary Israeli siege that is meant as a political punishment against Gazans and against Hamas. This is not a security-related policy, but purely political revenge.

      The Arab and Muslim states are able to control the United Nations and other international human rights bodies

      Holy crap, I didn’t know that! Ban Ki Moon is a Muslim. Must be one of those South Korean Muslims. The Security Council must be filled with Arab & Muslim states as permanent members. What, it’s not? How’s that possible? After all, Bruce swore it was true!

      You’re arguing that because Erdogan wants to visit Gaza that Israel has the right to go to war against Turkey & shoot down its planes. You’re not much of a military strategist, but the IDF may have an opening for someone as brilliant & cock-eyed as you. They seem to like far-fetched military scenarios of the sort you concoct.

      As for respect, yes I have a reasonable amount of respect for Turkey (while disagreeing with many of its policies including concerning human rights). I have respect for Israel as well, just not its government policies or Occupation.

  5. It’s always the same game with the Israeli Lobby and American officials – whether to apply US pressure on Abbas to endlessly delay declaring Palestinian statehood, taking the vote to the General Assembly, or to slow-roll taking Israel to the ICC, or stop Erdogan from giving Hamas the credibility of a state visit

    Israel is almost always successful in getting just another few Friedman Units to consolidate Apartheid a little more deeply, or to successfully foment a war with Iran, after which no one will even be able to remember what was going on before

    It’s an old state MO

    Israel always wants just another year, another yard, or another get out of jail free card – and they’ve been doing it for 65 yrs

  6. Richard,

    It was very disappointing and for me, surprising, that Turkey took/made the phone call with the Israelis in which it traded a legitimate international complaint against Israel for a few coins of silver in compensation. I wish they had held out, because accepting the apology took heat off Israel. Turkey should have held out for the end of the blockade of Gaza.

    It was Hillary Clinton’s term as Secretary of State the convinced me I will never vote for this woman for president, and it is quickly becoming John Kerry’s term that is reminding me why he did not deserve to defeat George W. These days, to be the US Secretary of State I guess means your number one priority is groveling before Israel and the Israel lobby. This means you say and do things to butter up Israelis, and conversely, your words and actions towards any other party in the region are more of a threatening, scolding and demanding nature. Every time Hillary addressed any Muslim/Arab leader/party/state during her term it was to demand or scold. Kerry is easing into that style, starting with the Turks and the Syrians. (at least James Baker, back in the day, stood up to the Israelis once in a while)

    The Obama administration has been a dramatic disappointment in terms of Middle East policy. Washington knows attacking Iran would be a bad idea, and does not want Israel too, either, but keeps shipping that country deadly weapons it does not need to keep peace. And yes, the so called Iron Dome: The French thought they had an Iron Dome in the 1930s, which they called the Maginot Line. That worked real good against the Germans, didn’t it? You don’t become safe by trying to overwhelm your neighbors; you become safe by behaving as a member of the larger space you share, regionally and globally.

    Someday circumstances may emerge that compel Israel to accept a better neighbor policy and behave in such a way. Those circumstances don’t exist yet.

    Now we will see if the Israelis will actually allow President Ergodan to enter Gaza. They have turned down international figures before.

    1. Scott Shepard,

      I’m not sure I share your assessment of the diplomatic situation between Turkey and Israel. Bear in mind that Turkey has been crystal clear, ever since the fallout from the Mavi Marvara, that they condition normalization with Israel upon the lifting of the blockade of Gaza. They have maintained this condition — which they also insisted on in the diplomatic runup to the phonecall, saying they wouldn’t take it otherwise — up to the present day; they reiterated it again just the other day. There’s no indication that they will yield it. I see Netanyahu’s humiliating phonecall as the starting signal for a process that could actually lead to that lifting of the blockade, whereas during the deep freeze in relations, nothing was ever going to happen. (Here is a story illustrating the current Turkish position: http://www.todayszaman.com/news-312552-turkey-not-to-send-back-envoy-to-israel-unless-blockade-on-gaza-lifted.html )

      If the Turks had refused to accept the apology to begin with, as you say, I doubt the situation would have gotten anywhere at all. Israel was not going to submit to a Turkish imperative out of nowhere; Tel Aviv was never going to give Ankara everything they wanted up front.

      It’s also a matter of political benefit: Erdogan’s continuing solidarity with the Gazans is hugely popular with his domestic audience, and securing an apology from Israel strengthened his hand immensely in the internal politics of Ankara, granting him a further mandate to follow his own line in the matter.

      So I don’t think there’s any cause, so far, to say that the Turks sold out; on the contrary, I think they are behaving unexpectedly resolutely, especially given the strong pressure being exerted by the US and by the sectors of Turkish and Israeli interests, military and otherwise, who wish to see a quick resumption of friendly ties.

      What you said about Clinton, I completely agree with. As for Kerry, I think it’s too soon to say. (And I resent the suggestion, even if made only rhetorically, that Kerry did not deserve defeating Bush Jr. Let us never forget or trivialize what that man did.)

  7. Bulent Arinc should have added:

    “If Mr. Kerry is genuinely committed to bringing about peace in the Holy Land, then he will join us on our trip to Gaza. LET’S GO, JOHN.”

  8. Richard this is now the second article that I have read of yours, and I find your work poorly researched and filled with mistakes or wishful thinking on your part. The first glaring mistake is when you wrote that there have not existed “peace talks” for years. Obviously you have forgotten that talks were carried out when Olmert was Prime Minister, and they failed miserably, even though he was more than willing to make major compromises. When Bibi came to power, by they way of the ballot box, he too met with Abbas and it all came to nothing.
    You are alrmingly ignorant of Turkish machinations, and of course mention nothing about Turkey’s Kurd destroying ambitions. Even the Turks understand that Erdogan has played his cards poorly, breaking contacts with Israel, instead to seek reporachment with Syria, big blunder.
    Unlike you we in Israel know that the flotilla was nothing more than a provocation, but you seem to fall for this crap, ignoring that the Egyptians control the western Gaza border. Turkey will not be bringing peace to the middle east anytime soon, they still have to deal with the Kurds of northern syria and Western Iraq. But do not worry your pretty little head over this stuff, your comfort zone seems to be in attacking any government in Israel that is not socialist. Good for you. As for not allowing the holocaust to enter into your fascinations regarding Israel, it is simply absurd, since it is omnipresent, like a dark cloud over your pathetic parade of lies and bad history.

    1. You’ve confused your own disagreement with my political views with what you falsely call “mistakes.” But the fact that these disagreements are errors in your eyes shows us how inflexible your views are.

      You also confuse “peace talks” which are formal negotiations with defined goals & parameters with meetings, which have vague unspecified agendas. The last formal negotiation with the Palestinians was indeed during Olmert’s government. That takes us back to 2008 or possibly 2009. By my count, that makes it four years. Hence my statement that there hasn’t been peace talks “in years” is correct.

      As for mentioning the Kuridsh issue, I do that periodically and have no issue with labeling Turkish handling of the Kurdish issue a gross human rights violation. But the important issue is that Kurdish rights are off-topic here. So once again, the fact that I don’t turn my blog into one focussing on Turkey’s human rights violations isn’t a “mistake” as you claim, but a difference between your pro-Israel nationalist politics and mine.

      1. Richard “years ago” is four years only if you happen to be a child. As for calling my politics “pro-Israel nationalist” or saying that you are anti Israeli nationalism? If so then your discussion of Israel is absurd, but what is one to expect from a child?

        1. I didn’t say anything about my views. I characterized yours. Since you didn’t object I can only assume you are comfortable being categorized as pro Israel nationalist, which tells us all we need to know about you.

          As for me, I’m in favor of nationalism that is pragmatic and tolerant, none of which Israel’s current version of fire-breathing nationalism is.

          As for the usage “years ago,” I’m afraid that you’re not the arbiter of proper English usage & hurling ad hominem insults doesn’t advance your argument.

          1. Let us begin that by noting that you have said a lot about your own views, note your many posts.
            Yes I did not object to be labelled a “pro Israel nationalist”, since I see nothing wrong with being pro-Israel, nor nationalistic, just as you seem to have no problem being a pro Palestinian nationalist. That you use this as a rather inane tactic to demean my views, shows that you are in denial.
            I find it amusing that you use such Stalinist phrasing, I am well familiar with the dark arts of Soviet and New Left propaganda, having once upon a time been a Leftie myself. I find it rather daunting to deal with someone who quickly jumps to the conclusion that his readers and those who criticize your writing are automatically intolerant and void of pragmatism. I suggest that this is just projecting on your part. So far I have yet to discover the joys of tolerance in your pros.
            We in Israel went to the polls a number of months ago, you would probably call it months ago, and democratically elected a government which you would probably label fascist and racist. I find you fixed in your ideology, but that is the way of the weak kneed Leftists, who have not yet come to terms with the fact that most of what they believe in and adhere to have failed miserably when applied.

          2. I am not a “pro-Palestinian nationalist.” Because I support a Palestinian and Jewish homeland in Israel that makes me a nationalist for both sides, if anything.

            I’m getting very tired to people mischaracterizing my views. Read the comment rules & do not violate them. Do NOT characterize my views unless you quote them or support your claims with citations.

            I also don’t cotton to the use of ill-advised, smear rhetoric like “Stalinism.” Only right-wing extremists living in the 1950s still try to use such stupid insults. So far that’s 2 strikes against you in one comment. If you violate the comment rules again you will either be moderated or banned.

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