Shin Bet Detains Irish Woman at Dublin Airport, Prevents Reunion with Israeli Boyfriend
Ynet reports (Hebrew) that the Shin Bet detained a 26 year-old Irish woman at Dublin airport when she arrived three hours prior to flight time (in order to go through the security check). She’d hoped to fly to Israel for a romantic reunion with her Israeli boyfriend, Alon, who she’d met in South America. It was to be her first visit to Israel.
When the Shin Bet security interrogators asked her why she was flying to Israel and she told them, they actually called her boyfriend in Israel to confirm this. They asked personal questions about the nature of their relationship. But that wasn’t enough.
At first, she was told she could board the flight, but without any personal electronic devices. Then, she was told she couldn’t bring any luggage at all. When offered this option, after the decidedly chilly reception she’d experienced from the Israeli security apparatus, she said: thanks, but no thanks. The distinct impression she got from her inquisitors was that the only reason she was treated this way is that she isn’t Jewish.
Keep in mind that her boyfriend is a former IDF officer who served his country and understood the need for security precautions.
During her trip to South America, she’d met many Israelis who told her about the bad rap that Israel got in the world media. They assured her that the real Israel was something else entirely.
The Shabak claims that it told the woman she could board the flight without her baggage and could send it separately via London. She denies they made this offer. They also claim that they couldn’t allow her luggage aboard because it required scanning by a special device which local airport security didn’t make available to them. I’d venture to say that if any Irish journalist picks up on this story and queries officials at Dublin airport they’ll find this is a crock. But the way the Shin Bet works, it only has to deflect criticism for a day or so for the embarrassing incident to be forgotten (or so they expect). That’s why they often don’t even make a pretence of having a credible story.
Alon’s girl still wants to reunite with him–anywhere but Israel. So think about this, if Alon and his girlfriend someday marry, where do you think they’ll live? Anywhere but Israel. But that won’t bother the racist thugs who control entry to the Jewish homeland. They prefer their guests and betrothed to be Jewish. Non-Jews need not apply. The needs of the national security state trump love and romance.
There are two lessons to be learned from this story. First, don’t fly to Israel on an Israeli airline. Second, if I were Irish authorities I’d demand the head of whoever was responsible for this mess. In South Africa, when a flyer was abused racially, the authorities threatened to ban the airline from flying to South Africa. That got Israel’s attention.
Since I published this story, Maan reporter George Hale told me he received the exact same treatment. He was told on two separate occasions that he could only fly without luggage (that’s besides the regular strip searches). The Shin Bet official told him he could retrieve it “the next time you’re in Zurich.”. That didn’t sit too well with George since it was everything he needed to practice his profession.
When he arrived at Ben Gurion he filed a complaint with the Press Office and the Shin Bet relented and returned his effects (which included all his electronic reporting gear). The Irish lass’ story is, unfortunately, not unique.
88 thoughts on “Shin Bet Detains Irish Woman at Dublin Airport, Prevents Reunion with Israeli Boyfriend – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم”
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One detail from the YNET article (English) was omitted.
“At one point she handed her phone over to one of the airport officers, who told the boyfriend that security was especially tight as result of the suicide bombing that killed seven people in Bulgaria earlier this month.”
*cough* Bullsh*t excuse *cough*
So you’re claiming that an Irish woman seeking to travel to Israel for a romantic reunion with her Israeli boyfriend can’t be adequately screened for boarding in three hours, and should thereby be considered a likely terrorist bomber?
Israelis in Ireland need to remember they are subject to the laws of the Republic.
The Irish authorities could have cleared the baggage with complete confidence, if asked. They’ve had four decades of experience of looking for hidden explosives and other contraband. They are in fact capable of testing for contract traces to identify if a passenger has been in the company of someone else who’s handled explosives, which, realistically, will be as close to an airport security check as a Real IRA bomber will come.
Unless, of course, they have reason to fear a deadly USB stick or camera memory card and its contents!
In which case, “you reap what you sow.”
Even there, the Guarda have access to hand-held devices which can detect hidden transistor junctions, even in an inactive or damaged circuit. These are meant to find the most advanced bugging equipment, but will easily scan a bag for USB devices, camera cards and anything else that might smuggle malware.
If this incident had been about any legitimate matter of Israeli security, they could have asked the Irish for appropriate help, they did not do so: it wasn’t about anything legitimate.
There is a well-funded campaign to stop Jews “marrying out” and I’d rather expect to find that this group had enlisted the help of the officers in question. Who should now be investigated to see if they accepted any financial inducements to hassle the lady.
“They are in fact capable of testing for contract traces to identify if a passenger has been in the company of someone else
who’s handled explosives”
The above statement is true and the test is declared to be administered “randomly” but in practice an disproportionate number of Israeli passport holders are subjected to the test at Dublin airport.How many cases recently have you heard of Israeli passport holders being involved in the illegal handling of explosives….not very many!.
So why the above average frequency of Israeli passport holders being randomly chosen for this test at Dublin airport (after passport control and immediately before they board their flight).
A false positive on this very sensitive test means that the traveler misses his flight, pending clarification………how unfortunate!
This whole incident with this Irish girl has been blown out of proportion,
Yes,there are over zealous Israeli security personnel who have problems with their testosterone and ultimately do harm to Israel by showing such blatant disrespect in the name of security.Had the testing of suitcases in London been truly unavoidable and presented sympathetically with a smile, a different response might well have been received from the Irish lady who wanted to join her boyfriend.Under the circumstances she probably felt harassed and threatened.
Personally it seems to me that the Israeli security personnel overreacted and the fact that her boyfriend was contacted and was able to vouch for her should have stood in her favor, but who knows what the real problem was….maybe she was beauty and the security guy got jealous,maybe she was very excited about the trip and they misinterpreted that for something else,maybe they wanted to retaliate for not being allowed to use the required scanning equipment themselves.
The whole story sounds like an typical and childish office dispute over use of the copy room.
Testing at random merely encourages terrorists to use the same saturation tactics that smugglers use: send through four mules, one gets caught, tying up the security people so the other three stand an excellent chance of getting through. This works so well that the big smugglers regularly tip off airport customs about the most naive of their mules, sacrificing between 1 and 4 KG of product, to ensure safe passage for perhaps 40KG and permitting officialdom to enjoy enough success to keep things from changing. Only a matter of time before a terrorist gang tries the same trick. Since the smugglers are often connected to FARC, one could argue that a terrorist gang invented this.
They should either test everyone: which would swiftly give them a clear idea of how many people innocently have contact with people who handle explosives legally (quite a lot in Ireland, as the deep metal mining industry is on the up) or test only on the basis of intelligence. The trouble is, security services which have for years conditioned themselves to believe their own press statements are not very well-equipped to distinguish intelligence from malicious gossip or simple misunderstanding.
Yes, things can be blown up out of proportion. It is equally possible to ignore straws in the wind when the portents are unwelcome.
Hm, joel, that poses and interesting question:
can airport security screen for the presence of explosives or not? Why do they have all those fancy machines?
I sounds to me that the ‘fancy machine’ wasn’t working in Dublin (which was why she couldn’t bring personal electronic devices on board) but the ‘fancy machine’ in London was working so that’s why they wanted to screen her baggage in London.
Of course this story doesn’t make complete sense, but Shin Bet is a paramilitary organization in which following orders, even dumb ones, is the most important thing you could do.
That makes no sense at all, unless every passenger was subject to the same restriction. It’s not that Jewish passengers are exempt from routine screening when flying to Israel, is it?
There’s more than one machine at the airport, but perhaps only one totally kosher one supposedly untouched by any Irish hand.
I’d expect that Irish Special Branch have stuck their own monitor on the El Al machines, though!
I dare the Shin Bet, you or anyone else to support the claim that the scanning device was not available in Dublin. I want to hear a Dublin airport security official confirm this. Till then you’re talking out your hindquarters.
“The Life of an American Jew in Racist, Marxist Israel” by Jack Bernstein
[ed., URL deleted for violation of comment rules]
Highly recommend the truth about Israel instead of the self-censored fiction. One cannot exclude people within Israel’s ever-changing borders as non-citizens to make that a true statement.
err to make Israel seem like a democracy.
That book is from Noontime Press which is the publishing arm for the Holocaust revisionist group the “Institute of Historical Review”. I would encourage people to Google or check Wikipedia to learn more about this loathsome organization.
What a shocker that you would “highly recommend” a book such as that one. I guess the mask is off now.
How you have not been banned from this site is beyond my understanding.
Bob – From the Amazon summary of the book, I can see why it had problems finding any other publisher. It’s like the problems Alan Hart had for his three volumes on Zionism.
I have often wondered about your participation on the site, why you weren’t banned?
It just goes to show …
Davey – spot on. It’s a tiring charade here. One has to be careful what to write because it bothers the sensitivities of textbook definitions of trolls.
Suddenly no counterarguments, just wrung panties. Typical.
Red Pill: that’s a BIG no-no here.
Who cares about their associations and publisher? What do you have a problem with that’s in the text you censure.
It’s a wonder why Richard lets trolls like you meander here.
I do. That’s who. Don’t go anywhere near anything having to do with the IHR here.
Bob, you’re slow. Are Palestinians not humans? Do they not live within Israel’s borders subject to checkpoints, tight economic controls and other apparatus of Israel’s government?
You are ignoring them in your count as to what makes your fauxmocracy. Keep the BS rolling. No one in the WORLD believes the one sided propaganda.
Here is a brief excerpt from this author, describing what he believes would happen after Israel triggers a large war in the Middle East:
At some point during the war, when the U.S. military is deeply involved and the U.S. citizens demoralized, the Zionist oriented Jewish International Bankers will make their move. Evidence leads to the conclusion that it is these bankers who own the Class A Stock of the U.S. Federal Reserve, America’s central bank. In this position of power, these Zionist bankers, can, and likely will, trigger an economic collapse in America — like they did in 1929 when they caused the stock market crash and started the severe depression of the 1930’s. Since the money system currently used in the U.S. is not backed by gold, silver or anything of value, the paper dollars and tin coins now in use will be worthless.
In the resulting state of confusion and in an effort to obtain food and other necessities, the American people will accept the ‘New States Constitution’ which has already been written. This will place the American people under the dictates of One-World Government run by the Zionist oriented International Bankers and Zionist/Bolshevik Jews.
I encourage readers to draw their own conclusion about this author and those who promote his texts.
This was written before it was actually done? That is brilliant. You? Blind.
Actually, everything you have just excerpted is 100% accurate, Bob. It is a sad state of affairs when you think that a mention of a fundamentalist portion of extremist Jews gives you cause to not only defend those criminals, but to drag in Judaism, which has nothing to do with their actual criminality, in with it.
Red Pill is right. Your arguments are all ad hominem and provide no substance.
Bob – there is something to these wild conspiracy theories but nothing quite as uniform and single-minded as usually presented. These theories arise because so much of decision making and power/money influence is hidden and uncharted. We know, for example, that individual Jews are highly represented in the government and some were important in the disastrous decision regarding Iraq. These individuals are Zionists and, oddly, the destruction of the Iraq war machine served Israeli interests more directly than anything accomplished for the US. So, people simply extrapolate from what they do know. It’s just that we don’t need the full bodied theories to be concerned and attentive and to be outspoken and in opposition. It is enough to know that interests other than US interests were pursued not incidentally to US interests. That’s enough. And this is just an example. The overuse of imagination to create a conspiracy should not make us more fearful, nor should it make us any less attentive and aware.
Bob — I should receive the book tomorrow. I will discount the conspiracy stuff because bad practices and bad policies do not require central conspirators. Thanks for the tip in this hitherto unknown direction for me.
Oy, now TWO deluded people claim Israel is Marxist?
Go ahead, Richard, play thought police. What did the book say?
You just swallowed Bob’s BS connection between the publisher and a claim about Holocaust revisionism. Go ahead, ban me like he has asked you to several times so that people can see what’s happening here.
I’m sorry, but someone who claims that Israel is Marxist (even if I’ve only seen the title) is a lunatic, and knows sh** about neither Israel nor Marxism, but then I’ve also heard a American claiming that France is ‘communist’ ….
Maybe Bob is a troll, but then what are you ? That book has nothing to do with the content in this article.
Anders Behring Breivik, the Norvegian lunatic, is also obsessed by “Marxism” taking over Europe….
Give me one decent counterargument instead of this sh*t
Deir, you keep ignoring the humans living inside Israel’s borders — about 5 million of them. They are not without a country.
If you are not sophisticated enough to understand that forms of government are not declared by eliminating 5 million from your poll, then sorry for you.
Marxism and Communism are the same thing, as was Bolshevism. People are confused, sounds like you are, as was Anders Brevik.
You are not the arbitrator of truth, fortunately, but just another person in a long line of thought police.
You’re blathering. There are 7 million people living inside Israel’s borders, not 5 million.
I warned you off this subject long ago. Since you’ve dredged up Marxism again I have only to conclude that you are a troll. The use of the antiquated pejorative term “Bolshevism” also gives you away. You are now moderated. If you violate the comment rules again you will lose your privileges completely.
He’s obviously referring to the Palestinians you don’t include in your census count or your form of government. What is true is that you have never actually bothered to debate this topic, only censor Red Pill and try to ridicule what is a commonly accepted notion — hate to break it to you all.
What is a “commonly accepted notion” ? That Israel is communist ? Marxist ? Bolchevik ?
Ah, that was a comment to Aikido.
@ Richard, there is some dysfontion in the reply-system. And for some time your comments are all at the bottom (after a certain amount of comments), so it’s not always clear to see who you’re responding too, if one doesn’t remember all the comments.
I don’t understand the ignorance here as to the history of where all of the above comes from and the illusion that these strongly held ideologies are foreign to Israel. Israel has had an active Marxist party for 90 years. Israel was established in 48. Do the math.
Having a single small leftist party, Rakah, does not make Israel Marxist. As for math, I’d suggest that’s the least of your & Red Pill’s problems.
I’m not sure who’s the ignorant around here.
First this statement of yours:
“Israel has had an active Marxist party for 90 years. Israel was established in 48. Do the math.”
Well, I did the math, and guess what, I realized you don’t know what you’re talking about !
Prior to ’48 – that is 64 years ago – there was no “Israeli” political parties, and when you talk about an “active [Israeli] Marxist party that has been around for 90 years, I’m very curious. You’re insinuating that this “active Marxist” Party is responsible for the creation of the State of Israel.
Are you talking about the anti-zionist Palestinian Communist Party (Jews and Arabs) that split in ’47-48 ? Are you talking about Maki, Rakah, Hadash (4 members actually in the Knesset, three of them Israeli Palestinians, and non-zionist), or maybe Matzpen, also anti-zionist (great guys like Akiva Orr and Michael Warschawski).
Are you aware that the various Communist-affiliated parties in Israel has been represented by at least as many if not more Israeli Palestinians than Jews in the Knesset ? Look up people like Emile Habibi, (the famous writer) Tawfiq Zayyad (the great poet and former mayor of Nazareth), and the longest sitting member of the Knesset ever, Tawfik Toubi.
And you – and RedPill – want us to believe that these kind of people are the backbone of Zionist Israel ?
Holy Christ of Nazareth !
I was referring to the Palestinians, Richard. Why do you suddenly dare say that these people do not make up the demographics of the entirety of Israel? This is troubling.
Let me provide an example as to why. Nation A has 10 million people within its borders. Nation A then separates 60% of its populace out as non-Citizens, declaring them to be hostile terrorists. For 60 years, Nation A continually takes a census of the remaining 40%: “Are we the shining light of Democracy onto others?” and the 40% and their cousins abroad all answer resoundingly, “YES! YES! You are the shining beacon of Democracy!”
What do you think the other 60% would say? Do they get a voice? Not according to the logic I have been presented here.
Am I “anti-Communist”? I am anti-dishonesty and suffering. All -isms must be destroyed with the exception of one starting with a J.
There are one million Israeli Palestinians and 4.5 million Palestinians. The Palestinians of the Territories don’t live within Israel. You’re still wrong.
“Israel is not Marxist”
“All allies spy on each other”
Lies repeated here.
What am I? Telling the truth. What are you? Crying about it. Out argue me, don’t insult me or I will create the necessity for you to see a therapist 😉
Cut the crap, RedPill. I have family members living in the State of Israel, I’ve been there on various occasions though the last time goes back many years.
Someone who’s claiming that Israel is Marxist is brain-damaged ! Israel is an ultra-liberal capitalist society, looking more and more like the States, and it’s not the fact that 97% of the land is owned by the state that makes it marxist. This is a device to prevent the Palestinians – from whom the land was largely expropriated – to buy some of it back. In Israel, you lease land, and everyone knows which ethnic group gets the leasing. It’s just part of the slow ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population.
I know a thing or two about Marxism, more than enough to say you’re just another right-wing wacko !
You don’t like Israel (and neither do I, and I’m being polite) and you don’t like Marxism, so it’s so convenient to say Israel is Marxist, isn’t it ?
And no, Marxism and communism is not the same thing, you just show your total ignorance on the subject.
Nothing conncected with the IHR will be granted any credence here, whether it’s a book or anything else. Nothing.
You’re about an inch from it.
BTW, Richard, what is a ‘NATIONAL SECURITY STATE’ in the modern era? Reminds me of Communist Russia
A “National Security State” is not an economically “communist” state. Is this what you are suggesting?
I do not understand the label “Marxist” or “Communist” applied to Israel. I would like Red Pill to explain why he (and the other guy) insist on characterizing Israel as “Communist”. Is it the state ownership of the means of production? The one class dictatorship of the proletariat? What? Or is it just a means of characterizing a highly organized state dedicated to the needs of a single small group, maybe the “security state” or some such? Although we have counted only two such believers here, I am still curious how this comes about.
We’ve already wrung out this discussion before (you may have missed it). We’re simply not delving into this again. Red Pill seems to have some sort of obsession with Marxism, Communism, or as he so quaintly called it “Bolshevism.” He’s clearly an anti-Communist of some sort with some quite whacked out views on a number of matters. His fixation is not mine.
I’m just trying to understand the basis for the bizarre statement that Israel is Communist. But, ok, I can forget about it.
I suppose if you’re anti-Marxist & anti-Israel it offers you yet one more cudgel to use against it, even if it’s long since stopped being even socialist, let alone Marxist (which it never was).
RedPill already gave us the “Israel-is-Communist”-speech on the article “Social Justice Demonstrator Immolates himself”, on July 14th and some Mark Kerpin brought it back into the discussion on one of the articles about the bombing in Bulgaria.
All non-Israeli citizens are advised to never ever fly El Al. There’s nothing that can be done with this company and its security gangs (which are in some cases a front for Mossad operatives). Just cut their stream of $$$ and save yourself from harrassment. There are a lot of other airlines flying to Israel, anyway.
This wasn’t El Al. It was Arkia Airlines.
El Al or Arkia, it’s all the same, it’s Israeli, and it’s rude ! Last year, Arkia was prevented from flying to Copenhagen even before they started up because the Danish officials wouldn’t allow their methods on Danish soil – saying they were “incompatible with human dignity” – as if human dignity is something the State of Israel cares about. The direct line was suspended, and till SAS took up Copenhagen -Tel Aviv again this summer after 11 years of absence, there was no direct flight to Scandinavia.
The Irish should follow the Vikings: refuse Israeli methods on their national soil.
I appreciate you sharing this information, but I don’t appreciate you calling me a troll in your other comment above.
We’ve had several of what I consider to be friendly and polite exchanges, and I’ve done my best to present my opinions respectfully. I’ve responded in detail to many of your questions with my own thoughtful opinions, and while we certainly have had numerous disagreements, I have never once called you a troll or anything like it in all our various back and forth discussions here.
I would hope for an extension of the same courtesy at this point.
Then perhaps you should stop trolling? Do you not know what the word means?
Wow. I wrote “MAYBE Bob is a troll, ….”
Maybe you should stop your selective reading, it might be one of the reasons why some get the impression that you might be a troll. You know the “walk like a…, talk like a…” ?
She was flying Arkia, not El Al. But both are Israeli–same difference.
Arkia seems to be even worse. El Al still has the public image of the official airline of Israel, and its employees may be instructed to refrain from excesses so as not to damage the image of the state (whether they succeed in refraining from such excesses is another question). Arkia employees wouldn’t have even scruples of this sort. But you’ve got my general idea.
Hi, Bob Mann, what part of “the Zionist oriented Jewish International Bankers” do you find factually incorrect, if you don’t mind my asking?
He is part of the “let’s call Occupy Wall Street anti-Semitic” and hope no one draws weird conclusions from that crowd (like, why are Jews defending massive global financial fraud and…what does Judaism have ANYTHING to do with it?) In fact, OWS was more about returning America to a land that upheld the US Constitution instead of the Israelistine that Michael Chertoff transformed us into along with Kristol, Kagan, Netanyahu, Barak, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Bush, Feith, Bolton et. al.
Most tellingly, what conclusion should one draw when equal false cries of anti-Semitism are drawn when mentioning the following TRUTHS?
*“Israel is an apartheid state, Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela said so.”
*“It’s a complete lie that ‘all allies spy on each other’”
*“Iran has subjected itself to the most robust inspections regime ever in the history of the IAEA, has not violated the NPT in any regard since declaring its enrichment of civilian grade uranium and continues to offer a chance to speak with obvious imperialists about its own LEGAL RIGHT, which they are hypocritically denying for Israel”
*“Palestine” (yes, just that word alone)
Thus, it seems that when striking the chords of truth, the false anti-Semitism cries ensue. There’s your litmus test for truth. Eat that ADL.
I DO mind you asking. If you want to delve into bizarro world territory you won’t do it here. This comment was so out there, I’m not even taking my usual step of warning you. You are moderated.
There may have been extenuating security reasons in regards to this episode that did not get published — or maybe not, and this whole affair might be a truly embarrassing and unnecessary security snafu. I am sorry for the girl.
I hope I don’t risk being called a “hasbarist,” a “troll” or worse if I don’t toe a hostile anti-Israel tone here, but I would like to point out the fact that according to the Tourism Ministry, 1.7 million visitors arrived in the “national security state” (Israel) between January and June 2012.
Although unfortunate episodic cases like this do occur, and perhaps it is good to laser in and highlight them in blogs like this, it seems that the vast majority of tourists of all nationalities and religions must be having a relatively good experience, or the tourism numbers would probably not be at record levels.
No. The emergence of such stories suggests just the opposite, that there is a systematic element in these screenings that goes beyond the ranges expected even in the case of Israel, etc. Exactly the opposite conclusion. This story does not appear to me to be a “one off” sort of thing because there are other confirming stories as well.
Cory, entering Israel is generally not a problem for the First World citizens, provided that they have the brains to get to the Ben Gurion Airport by a non-Israeli airline and not to tell anyone they have previously visited a country which is considered hostile to Israel (Iran, Syria, etc.; not sure about countries like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan).
People are being refused entry to Israel every day. Here’s the story of an Indian Muslim:
A French high-school teacher had an article last Friday on the most read French web-site about his interrogation and detention at BG before being expelled. More than 600 comments at the time being: great publicity for the BDS movement.
And let’s be honest about this: one of the first things that people are being asked is whether they are Jewish or not. When American-Palestinian Sandra Tamari was held back at BG this spring, she called the US ambassasy, and their first question too was “Are you Jewish ?”. When she said no, they said that they couldn’t help her. Her story is on Mondoweiss.
Two young highly educated Arab-American women went through an interrogation in June where among other things they were asked if they felt more Arab than American (I wonder if American Jews are asked the same question…). They were expelled too.
Countries have a right to allow or disallow an entry to any non-citizen for any reason. The United States has a very extensive list, which was greatly expanded after 9/11, as it recognizes it is in the middle of a war. I am actually surprised that Israel does allow entry to many visitors hostile to the country, and I will not name any names.
The woman in the article you posted had visited Israel before – her religion and race had not changed since that visit, or did it? Thus, at least the title of the article is false.
Apparently, it was something else that caused her to be banned from entry – like having a hidden agenda, as implied from the comments of Israeli border control officers.
No, she had never visited Israel before. I’d clearly stated this in the post, which you clearly hadn’t read.
I think Sanych’s comment was an answer to a comment of mine. I didn’t post an article about a woman visiting Israel, but I mentionned one posted on Mondoweiss about American-Palestinian Sandra Tamari, and Sanych is probably right that Sandra Tamari is guilty of something: being Palestinian, and her hidden agenda was probably her wish to visit the land from where her people was exiled.
You’re right. Every country has a right to control its borders, but Israel is not a country like every other country (a part from the fact that it was created on the exile of 80% of the indigenous population). It’s also controlling all entries into the West Bank. By the way the next “Welcome to Palestine”-campaign is heading for the Allenby Bridge between Jordan and Occupied Palestine to show the world that the State of Israel controls that border too
PS. There is no such thing as “race”, it’s a social construct that has been debunked decades ago by geneticists. Racists – who don’t care about science – still exist though…..
So I would say Sandra Tamari belongs to the human race.
Ah, I see. I remember that post.
Obviously, I was replying to DY’s message with a different article. Not everything is revolving around your posts, RS.
Further stupid, gratuitous insults will result in your moderation.
1. Every country is based on the territory that was taken by force at some point in the history. Israel is different because its people are descendants of the ones who were displaced originally. When Cherokee Indians establish their own state it today’s state of Georgia it will not be unique any more.
2. The woman in the article claimed racial and religious discrimination by Israeli officials in her article – the one that you have posted and to which I replied.
3. I bet that with the name like Deïr Yassin they will welcome you to Israel with a red carpet, as you, obviously, don’t have any hidden agenda.
4. Many Germans still have keys to their homes in the territories that are now Poland, Czech and Slovak Republics, Russia. They were banned from visiting those places for awhile, but now many do. Hopefully, the situation in the Middle East will calm down enough, so that Sandra Tamaris will be able to visit the Jewish state and safely return home.
Don’t waste your hasbara on me ! I’ve heard the Cherokee, German-in-Poland and Israelis-are-the-descendants-of-the-originally-displaced-blah-blah 100 of times before. Maybe you should study some history….
Oh, and the Indian in the article is a male. You didn’t read it till the end ???
> the Indian in the article is a male
You are right! And I kept wandering why the author did not claim sex discrimination or sexual abuse while in Israeli detention. Now I have my answer.
> You didn’t read it till the end ???
Yes, I missed that final “He” with a Twitter reference. Shame on me! You are right again!! Free Palestine!!!
“And I kept wandering….”
Yeah, you see, the Jews weren’t “displaced originally”. They mostly just kept wandering…. I wonder why.
And “Free Palestine” takes at least 4 exclamation marks, but thanks for the encouragement anyway.
> I wonder why.
It is because we are wonderful.
And here is your missing exclamation marks – “!” Feel free to use it.
On a different note – looks like evil “moderation” by RS is down. It is almost like the liberation of Paleostine has started with the liberation of this site.
Exactly. It’s not a “one off” story but a story indicative of state policy and practice. An increase in tourism will just increase the number of such events and the number of such reports.
Sanych — it is gratifying to see the conquest of territory argument here. It is precisely the thing that Israel agreed was not acceptable in 1951! So, only Israeli “exceptionalism” allows the conquest to stand today and that argument comes out of thin air altogether! As for the original inhabitants that were, as you say, “displaced”, let’s suppose hypothetically that this was just as the exilists would have it: Big bad imperial state decides to oust Jews from their land and they march them all off. (Why would any power do this unless it wanted the land for other purposes (hint, hint)? Romans never intended to settle there!) But, even so — what happened in the ensuing 2000 years? For two millenniums these people wander everywhere on earth except to the Holy Land, which (according to myth) they missed so sorely. And, after Romans, there were several very accommodating landlords and still no great revival sent Jews scurrying back to Eretz Israel. I’d say that, even if this mythological story were the truth, the wanderers had foregone their original claim through sheer absenteeism. This argument should have considerable merit in Israel because it was embedded in Israeli law precisely for the purpose of claiming land from absent Arab owners!
So we have to leave the conquest of the land at conquest justified by the might of arms and nothing else. Again – Israel signed that this precisely was unacceptable in 1951. Did Israel lie in the signing? Could it be?
I am not sure who were the “accomodating landlords” you are referring to and what Israel signed in 1951.
Over the years Israel has demonstrated its readiness to exchange territory for peace (Sinai, Barack offer to Arafat, Gaza). It is Arabs who cannot accept a Jewish state in what they claim to be the heart of Arab land.
Finally, it is impossible for me to have a debate here, since my messages are not published.
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1. Israel signed the UN Accord in 1951 recognizing the illegitimacy of territorial expansion by conquest.
2. Various Muslim Caliphates and the Ottomans were accommodating to ethnic groups, including Jews. All they wanted was to collect taxes.
3. Israel was never prepared to exchange the West Bank for “peace” and did everything possible — including an invasion of Lebanon — to see that it would not get stuck with such a trade. This is well documented and attested to by Barack among others. The unilateral “withdrawal” from Gaza doesn’t count because Israel still controls the region completely and it was not a negotiated withdrawal.
Wrong on all counts. I don’t care to debate these fundamentals here in any case. I just want to be sure that your statements are properly offset for the benefit of others.
On Palestinian demographics:
According to the CIA World Factbook (2012 July estimates): the West Bank (including East Jerusalem): 2.622.544
According to the same (July 2011 extimates): the Gaza Strip: 1.710.257
Total in the Palestinian territories: 4.332.801
We’ll have to deduce the Palestinian worker who was killed by numerous IDF bullets at a check-point this morning….
Israeli Palestinian demographics is more complicated as the CIA World Fact Book doesn’t make any ethnic-religious distinctions, but according to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics 2006 the Arab population is 1.413.500 (including 209.000 Arabs in East Jerusalem. The Arab population is East Jerusalem is thus counted twice, as inhabitants of the Palestinian terrotories by CIA World Fact Book and the Palestinian statistics and once again in the Israeli statistics.
March 2012, the Israel Bureau of Statistics count 1.597.300 Arabs but gives not specific number for East Jerusalem. The Arab population of East Jerusalem is declining due to ethnic cleansing and I’ve read that it’s around, or even less than 200.000 by now. So we can more or less conclude that the Palestinian Israeli population within Israel is around 1.400.000.
Thanks for correcting my Israeli-Palestinian population count.
Getting back to the original blog post, it never fails to amuse me how Israelis with a conscience are shocked by these kind of stories. Make no mistake, what happened to this Irish woman is standard practice by El Al at any airport, and standard practice at Ben Gurion no matter what airport you fly. It has nothing to do with Bulgaria – it has been like this for many years. People suspected of any kind of connection with or sympathy towards Arab people are routinely subjected to excessive questioning and strip-searches, and have electronic equipment confiscated. I finally gave up on BG after my computer was taken for a few days (I am currently having it “cleaned” by a friend in that business) and now travel across the Bridge to fly from Amman. And to the standard Israeli argument that this there is no racism involved, I point to the fact that Jewish Israelis glide through security at BG, never to be victimized by this kind of treatment. Saying this is all about “security”, as most Israelis honestly appear to believe, is the same thing as saying that discriminatory roads and movement restrictions around settlements have nothing to do with racism. Amazing how normally intelligent people can be brainwashed so easily.
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In USA, there is a large part of political spectrum that calls you Marxist if you support progressive taxes (or expriation of tax breaks) and a Communist if you support so-called “socialized medicine”. By commenting favorably on Israeli single-payer system. Romney revealed himself to be a Bolshevik stooge. And of course Netanyahu by doing very little to dismantle this Communist travesty in Israel (why, he even agreed to a pay increase for doctors) is objectively a Communist.
Of course, people who proudly call themselves Marxists do not find anything Marxist in the government of Israel, but can we trust them?