19 thoughts on “Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them at StandWithUs – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. You wrote that the “level of Caterpillar’s business with the IDF is likely to dwarf its business in the Territories by a factor of ten or more”, but the LA Times article you linked to (the one with the excerpted quote about MSCI) states that Caterpillar does not do any business with the IDF.

    You will note that the MSCI statement says that the issue is in relation to “use of company’s equipment” in the Occupied Territories, not due to Caterpillar selling its bulldozers to the IDF. The bulldozers used in the OT were supplied to the Israeli military by the United States who purchased them from Caterpillar and outfitted them for military use,

    1. Bob, Caterpillar is fully aware what those bulldozers are being purchased for. They very clearly don’t object.

      1. Bob: “The bulldozers used in the OT were supplied to the Israeli military by the United States who purchased them from Caterpillar and outfitted them for military use,”

        Most military sales work that way i.e. the US Government purchases the equipment, and it is then transferred to the ultimate recipient under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) scheme.

        The claim that because of that scheme then it can be assumed that the manufacture is *unaware* that the US government is purchasing the equipment for ultimate transfer under FMS is – let’s be honest here – laughable.

        After all, if the US government contract with Caterpillar specifies that the service manual has to be supplied in both English and Hebrew then that would rather give the game away…..

    2. “and outfitted them for military use” And then what? Were they sold to the IDF, given to the IDF, what?

        1. Caterpillar does not armor them. The IDF does not buy them from the company. Where are you getting your information?

          Caterpillar’s bulldozers are purchased by the U.S. government and given to Israel through the U.S. Foreign Military Sales Program created under the Camp David Accord.

          The IDF retrofits the bulldozers with armored plating and has also added machineguns, smoke projectors and even grenade launchers to individually modified D9 units.

          1. You mean that the US Government buys these bulldozers with the demand that the instructions be printed in Hebrew? The US Govt. is ordering weapon manuals in Hebrew?

            I just get a sick feeling coming up so close to the collusion of my government with the loathsome government of Israel with the aim and intention (so clear) to destroy Palestinian homes and property. Henceforth, it will not be just Israel destroying these homes, it will be the US and Israel! For the Palestinian: This destruction is brought to you courtesy of the US taxpayer and the liars in Israel. America at its finest yet again. Makes one so proud to be both an American and a Jew.

          2. Here is a statement from the Caterpillar spokesperson as cited in an article hosted by the BDS Movement website:

            “This is how it works,” corporate spokesman Jim Dugan said. “Caterpillar sells equipment to the U.S. government, which then transfers the equipment to the Israeli government, which then transfers it to the Israeli military. Israeli is one of about 150 countries that take part in the program, which supports U.S. allies. For the D9s, the protective armor plating, the bullet resistant glass and other modifications take place after the machine has been transferred to the Israeli government by the U.S. government. These changes happen after the sale, not in our factories. We hope and wish for a peaceful resolution to the unrest in the Middle East, but that solution is a political matter to be worked out by the appropriate parties. Caterpillar does not and should not have a role in that political process.”

            http://www.bdsmovement.net/2012/israel-cited-in-caterpillars-delisting-from-influential-investment-index-9168

            Of course, he could be full of it, but I am not sure that he could get away with blatantly lying about the basic logistics of how this all works. Presumably there are records that can be checked.

          3. Doesn’t matter. He knows what his products are going to be used for. They’re going to be used to maintain the Occupation, destroy Palestinian homes, & generally oppress Palestinians. He bears responsibility for selling the stuff in the first place knowing how it will be used.

          4. Dugan: “This is how it works,”……

            And with that statement Caterpillar is acknowledging that it knows exactly what these bulldozers are going to be used for.

            Just as a thought-experiment, let’s ponder the outcry if it was found out that Bell helicopter gunships are being used to kill Syrians.

            Queue the flunky:
            Flunky: This is how it works, we sell Bell helicopters to the Russian government, which then sells them to the Syrian government along with machine gun mounts and weaponry. The Syrians then bolt those weapons-kits to the side of our helicopters, and then away they go. These changes happen after the sale, not in our factories.”

            Does anyone really expect that the response would be a shrug of the shoulders and a muttered “oh, well, THAT’s alright then…..”

          5. “Caterpillar’s bulldozers are purchased by the U.S. government and given to Israel through the U.S. Foreign Military Sales Program created under the Camp David Accord. ”

            Two point to make about this:
            1) The US Army does not use D9 bulldozers; they much prefer the smaller D7 because its easier to ship about.
            2) AFAIK there are no other recipients of D9 bulldozers under the FMS scheme *other* *than* the IDF.

            So each and every D9 sold to the US government is destined for Israel for use in oppressing the occupied population of the West Bank, and the Caterpillar company knows that and has always known that.

            You are splitting hairs, Bob.

          6. Does the IDF retrofit or does it merely complete the assembly? Has Caterpillar made no tweaks in the design of the D9 at the behest of the IDF? (through the proper circuitous channels of course) No machined or cast holes anywhere for any of those machine gun mounts? Just a plain ol’ bulldozer?

  2. RE: “StandWithUs is so eager to score points any which way it can against JVP that it will even stoop to outright lies.” ~ R.S.

    MY COMMENT: Perhaps SWU is in reality an acronym for “StoopWithUs”!

  3. TIAA CREF’s decision to drop Caterpillar was pegged to MSCI’s decision to drop Caterpillar.

    As per Mondoweiss, an unnamed MSCI official confirmed that Caterpillar’s labor troubles in Canada was the final straw in pushing its rating below the acceptable threshold for the fund, and added that the firm’s relationship to the Israeli occupation was “a consideration, but not the determining factor.”

    As far as I know, the TIAA CREF portfolio still contains funds that include Caterpillar in their investments.

    So TIAA CREF has not completely divested in Caterpillar, TIAA CREF’s decision was not in any way connected to any divestment campaign and some MSCI official said that Israel’s (ongoing) occupation was only a consideration and not determinative.

    BFD.

    1. The Forward actually says that the controversy over the Occupation was a major factor in the rating firm’s decision. Go read the article to which I linked. I trust the Forward over MW (if you’re correctly characterizing MW, which isn’t at all clear).

      No one claimed that TIAA CREF had completely divested fr Caterpillar. Then again, Rome wasn’t built in a day & BDS & other forces fighting Occupation see this as a gradual struggle, as the one against Apartheid was.

      So thanks for nuthin’. Wrong as usual.

      1. Here are the relevant paragraphs from Mondoweiss:

        Caterpillar was dropped during a quarterly review this spring when its rating fell below ‘CCC.’ An MSCI official confirmed that Caterpillar’s labor troubles in Canada was the final straw in pushing its rating below the acceptable threshold for the fund, and added that the firm’s relationship to the Israeli occupation was relevant as well, explaining it was “a consideration, but not the determining factor.”

        To put it another way, Caterpillar’s role in the Israeli occupation had weakened the firm’s rating to the point that addition labor troubles put them beyond the pale.

        Also, The Forward had another article on the subject that seems to conform with that interpretation. The headline is:

        A Caterpillar Divestment Victory?
        Stock Cut From Pension Giant’s Fund, But Not Over Israel

        http://forward.com/articles/158340/a-caterpillar-divestment-victory/#ixzz1z9ziEvqf

        It does seem, however, that the statement from MSCI included in the more recent Forward article lists the use of the equipment in the Occupied Territories on the same footing with the labor disputes/plant closings in Canada and the management of environmental issues and plant safety.

        Who knows if MSCI would have downgraded Caterpillar just on the basis of the other issues, but, regardless, this move does draw attention to the BDS movement in a very big way and can and should be counted as a victory in that regard.

  4. SWU is pretty outrageous. The slogan is something about “peace” and not “hate” (an allusion to AS certainly!). And this is offered just as though Israel were pro-peace (except on terms of complete control) and that “hate” is not taught to Israeli kids on a regular basis. The hypocrisy of the organization is exceptional by any measure. Were these not critical times and critical issues being explored, the hypocrisy would be pretty much a joke.

  5. US trade laws require that the supplier knows the full supply chain, the ultimate destination country, purchaser and use *before* they are allowed to export. The purchaser is obliged by law to inform the supplier of all onward sale / use information.

  6. In the discussion of divestment at the recent United Methodist Church (UMC) General Conference, the UMC pension board argued that its choices should not be constrained by moral concerns. This argument has led Methodist Kairos Response, the UMC allies of JVP, to argue:

    – yes, of course, moral concerns have to be part of investing, and

    – Caterpillar is a bad investment.

    Hence, the anti-BDS group is wrong both ways.

    Incidentally, while the pension board is a central institution, Methodists also have geographic organizations, such as New England, New York, Northern Illinois (aka, Chicago), California-Nevada. The geographic organizations I mentioned have voted to divest whatever money they have. More important, those organizations represent congregations — people.

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