19 thoughts on “Michael Oren to Rally Seattle Jews at “Private Event” Open to Local Jews – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.

  1. Here is the question on my behalf I’d like him to answer: every 8 year old around the world can draw the borders of his country. Can you, Mr. Oren, draw Israel’s borders? Here is a napkin and a pen for your convenience.

  2. Seattle’s shunning of an official Israeli LGBT delegation, the supposed pro-Palestinian activism of St. Mark’s Cathedral, and the presence of an especially aggressive local StandWithUs chapter, the Israeli government appears to see the Pacific NW as a hotbed of anti-Israel activity.

    I think one of the mistakes Palestinians have made, is that they havn’t really fully played the ‘Christian’ card. I’m no fan of the conservative Christian Right, but they are not supporters of Zionism, hence i’m wondering if this is not a serious mistake?

    Instead of touting ‘universal values’ would it not be more fruitful to break the neo con Zionist strangehold by encouraging these groups and supporting them?

    I don’t like the Christian Right, but groups like Christ at the Checkpoint, will have resonance amongst them, more than ‘universal values’.

    That said, I don’t like the Republican right wing, nor the conservative movement. Partly because i’m Muslim, Islam at it’s core is liberal and clashes with right wing politics.

    It’s a dilemma.

    1. The West has always treated Oriental Christians like Muslims; it is millennial. The crusaders massacred Oriental Christians along with Muslims.

      Later, Catholics like the French, found it useful to ally with Christian communities in the Near East.

      Evidently in consequence, the Oriental Christians have found it easy, today, to have visas to depart for Europe and the US.

      The problem with the argument vis-a-vis the Christian Zionists, is that there is no question but that Christian Palestinians are original inhabitants of Palestine, with as much right as Jews to inhabit the country. Muslim Palestinians can be accused of being Arabs and late arrivers, but Christian Palestinians can’t.They are the Arabic-speaking descendants of the ancient population of Palestine.

      Therefore their voice cannot be allowed to be heard, because it would put the narrative in question.

      1. Alexno,

        The West has always treated Oriental Christians like Muslims; it is millennial.

        the Crusaders massacred Jews too. As for todays Christians, I disagree with you. The Palestinians have a lot of support and do influence greatly, Christian discourse towards the Middle East. Christianity tends to sympathise more with the Palestinians.

        The original inhabitants of Palestine is not the reason they are supported, that is subjective, in any case, the right to land is not by who has lived there the longest, otherwise i’d be the first to rally the US an illegal state built on genocide of Indians. Nobody has rights to any land except by military rights. That is why countries from time immemorial including today have armies. In the civilised world that we now have chosen to create, we agree on rules not to invade. The UN, thus every country signed up has to abide by the rules. Who lived where centuries ago is of no significance. Israel is breaking todays UN resolutions, that is of significance.

        1. Alexno, when I said support, I meant outside of the US, though even in the US, it’s changing now, with Christian groups influencing the deviant theologies of Evangelical Armeggedon.

          By the way, Stephen Walt, in his book The Israel Lobby predicted this. He said Christian support for Israel in the US is based on a deviant thelogy and they will come to realise they are wrong. Not those exact words, but he said something to that effect when he was questioned about the Armeggedonites, and why he didn’t mention their influence on the Zionist lobby in the US. He said it would recede with time, and that is now starting to happen.

      2. “… Christian Palestinians are original inhabitants of Palestine, with as much right as Jews to inhabit the country. Muslim Palestinians can be accused of being Arabs and late arrivers….”
        1. You mean as much right as Jews coming from Russia, Poland or indigenous Jewish Berbers from Morocco ?

        2. You seem to make a distinction between Palestinian Muslim Arabs and Palestinian Christian Arabic-speaking.
        “Arab” is a lingustic denominator, but the Arabs have no common ‘genetic’ origin whatsoever from Morocco to Western Iran. They are various indigenous populations who have been arabized and mostly islamized too.

        3. Palestinian Muslims can only be “accused of being…late arrivers” if one doesn’t know the history of Palestine. Just as the Christian Palestinians they are rooted in the land. You seem to imply that Palestinian Muslim came from the Arabian Peninsula, and are not indigenous who converted to a new religion.
        I’m not sure many Palestinans would appreciate this division of Palestinians into ‘indigenous Christians’ and ‘Muslim newcomers’ – even in order to convince American Christians of whatever you want to convince them about. By the way, Americans, Christian Zionists or not, are not going to keep the place as self-designed policemen of the world for much longer, and in a couple of decades who the h… would care what the Americans think anyway.

    2. The Christian Right is a strong supporter of zionism. Where have you been? I suggest you google “Christian Zionism” and have a good long read. Christian zionism is a strong presence in the US government and in keeping its policies strongly pro-Israel.

      1. Mary,

        The Chrisitan Right is not a monolith. The Evangelical right wing is pro Israel, (though not necessarily pro Jewish since they want them to convert ) but the Republican right, does have conservative Christians who belong to other churches, that are pro Palestinian and do not buy into the Armeggedon tale,

  3. Ahad,

    Oren is worried about the declining support from the Evangelical right wing, because the left wing which is pro peace is getting more and more vocal.

    The CBS documentary was a good start, but we need a more pushy agenda, which has religous overtones (Christian)

    Why this is important, is because the support the Kahanists and Likudniks enjoy from the US comes because of the Armeggedon cult. But the Republican right wing, conservative Christians are not pro Zionist in that they do not support the settlements. They support the two state solution as do most Americans. Only the Evangelical Armeggedon cult are propping up the settlements.

    Palestinians need to counter this, with a similar religously overtoned Christian message, some thing they have not fully realised. They have a good weapon, but they hanv’t used it.

    This is the achilles heel of Israel.

    1. Palestinians do not have access to mainstream media as their antagonists do, so it’s hard to criticize them. Sure they should use the Christian kryptonite more in their PR as it’s a fact that most Christian Zionists, gullible and misled people, are not aware of.

      Yes, I could think of quite a few things they could do with a few million in budget but they are outgunned, outnumbered and outpowered by Zionist Jews who are part of the ruling elite of the West. That’s part of their tragedy. However, truth comes out eventually. It may take a while but you can’t fool all the people all the time.

  4. RE: “Pro-Israel advocacy groups like StandWithUs are quick to denounce so-called violations on free speech when Ambassador Oren’s speeches are disrupted. But in this instance, the community has circled the wagons and shut off free and open debate. Their message: do as we say and not as we do.” ~ R.S.

    SEE: Can Jewish Liberals Transcend the Wiesel Doctrine? Countering the Israel Lobby’s Dominance, by Alan Nasser, Counterpunch, 5/29/12

    • “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivitiess become irrelevant.” ~ Elie Wiesel, From the “Kingdom of Memory: Reminiscences”
    • “My loyalty to my people, to our people, and to Israel comes first and prevents me from saying anything critical of Israel outside Israel… As a Jew I see my role as a melitz yosher, a defender of Israel: I defend even her mistakes… I must identify with whatever Israel does – even with her errors.” ~ Elie Wiesel, “Against Silence”

    . . . As [Peter] Beinart observes, “As secular Jews drift away from America’s Zionist institutions, their orthodox counterparts will likely step into the breach.” Thus, the distance between largely secular American Jews and the Zionist establishment is likely to widen. But this will weaken the political power of the Israel lobby -inextricably linked, of course, to the Jewish establishment- only if American Jews as a whole are prepared to announce unambiguously their antipathy to their soi disant representatives. The political and moral responsibility this places on American Jewish liberals cannot be overestimated. . .
    . . . [Peter] Bienart sees that as an American Jew he bears a special responsibility to act on the words, hypocritically penned by Elie Wiesel, cited at the head of this article: “We must always take sides…. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.” I say he’s right.

    ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/29/countering-the-israel-lobbys-dominance/

  5. Tip for Israel: If Ambassador Oren re-brands the way in which Rachel Corrie’s murder is perceived here, the PNW may develop a more favorable opinion of the apartheid state.

    We don’t like it when you kill our youth.

    -Wenatchee, Washington

      1. Doubtful.

        Opinion of Israel does not become more favorable when fewer Palestinians are killed. Look at the numbers.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Share via
Copy link