51 thoughts on “Voice of Israel Anti-Flotilla Hasbara – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. When dissent thinks that it is making a moral statement, and that many dissents on many fronts are the formation of a fabric of change; Israelis perceive the same communications as threats, getting surrounded by expressions of animosity.

    What is intended as a communication (hopefully), ends up something different than intended.

    1. The people of Gaza are suffering. This is for them. To bring them aid. To show them they are not alone. Not forgotten. To remind the world what Israel is about and what it is doing – colonialism.

      This is not for liberal Zionism, Richard Witty. This is not for the settlers who steal Palestinian land with immunity. This is not for the IDF who have since the 2nd intifada, killed 10 times as many palestinian children and 5 time as many civilians in general.

      The last thing on anyone’s mind after they have witnessed the suffering and destruction wrought by Israel and Zionism upon Gaza, is liberal Zionism or the stream of useless platitudes that are used to prop up the facade of a two state solution.

      Facts on the ground don’t lie, only you do.

      1. I think the organizers of the flotilla have made it clear that the primary goal is not to bring humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, but rather to make a political statement against the siege itself.

        I believe the American ship, for instance, isn’t even carrying any humanitarian aid at all but rather letters of support along with the passengers.

        The primary purpose of the flotilla is political in nature – to bring attention to the siege of Gaza and to bring pressure to bear on the Israelis to end it.

        There would of course be a humanitarian benefit to the people of Gaza if this political end was, in fact, achieved, but bringing aid to the people of Gaza is not the main thrust of what this flotilla is doing.

        In fact, I would say part of the mission of the flotilla is to create a situation where Gazans would not be as dependent on humanitarian aid as they currently are.

        1. I see the creation of tensions as the result more than any clear plausible goal.

          I believe that the primary effort of dissent should be electoral, in Israel.

          The issues are not clear enough and there are too many violent opportunists in the wings, for the US or EU or Arab League to take dissenting position.

          The position of the international community is to push for negotiation resulting in two viable neighbors.

          Does the flotilla further that? I don’t think so. I think that in the setting of Hamas bowing out apparently of unity efforts, that Hamas is hoping to benefit as partisan.

          They are hoping that negotiation is not the path by which Palestinian rights are affirmed, to have the out of any cooperative contact with Israel.

          But, that is no peace, likely war in fact.

          1. in the setting of Hamas bowing out apparently of unity efforts

            What are you smokin’ Witty? You’ve been reading too much anti-Palestinian hasbara or else you’re just makin’ it up.

  2. I could makes some cheap “1984” pun about the Israeli war footing vis a vis Hamas, but I won’t. Instead I will say their disingenuousness reminds me of the Nixon Whitehouse concerning the secret bombing of Cambodia, mixed with the outright BS of Nixon talking about the Watergate break-in. They can lie to themselves and their followers, but the truth is going to hit them like a ton of bricks in a week.

  3. Couldn’t the flotilla still be considered a success if it does not actually reach Gaza?

    Do you think there have been any positive changes made as a result of the actions of the flotilla participants both from last year and today even though they did not get to their destination (and, in some cases, were killed in the effort)?

    Are the political aims of the flotilla participants better served by them reaching Gaza or being prevented from doing so?

  4. @Bob Mann
    Are you suggesting that the flotilla sail into Israel territorial waters, signal “sorry folks” on an Aldis lamp, then sail back? If so, thats just cruel. The only thing stopping the flotilla is the Israeli navy, the only sucess: tying up in Gaza and unloading the material.

    1. Not suggesting that at all.

      Suggesting that when and if they are stopped by the Israeli navy and not permitted to dock in Gaza, they do not necessarily have to view their efforts as a failure.

      The trip could still be viewed as a success even if they do not make it to Gaza (which they must realize is fairly unlikely).

    2. The flotilla will be useful even if it doesn’t reach Gaza. Mondoweiss has a post arguing that Israel’s recent decision to allow construction goods and other necessities into the Strip is a way of improving its image prior to the flotilla’s departure. Although they are only doing it for PR, and not becaue of any genuine commitment to Palestinian welfare, those goods will still help the Gazan population. The second flotilla is drawing a lot of attention to Israeli policies surrounding Gaza, and awareness of the siege is now very high compared to what it was when the first flotilla sailed. These efforts to reach Gaza by sea have played a big role in that.

      Finally, look at who is sailing with this flotilla. A quarter of the passengers on board ‘Audacity of Hope’ alone are Jewish. There are a few Holocaust survivors going too. The Pulitzer-winning writer and former black civil rights activist Alice Walker is on board, and she has compared the flotilla to the freedom rides that she used to join in the Deep South. It is going to be very difficult for the Israeli authorities to paint this group as hostile supporters of terror. (Already they seem to have given up on that angle and have resorted to presenting the flotilla passengers as incompetent blunderers instead.) Whether the boats reach Gaza or not, people are going to see the likes of Alice Walker and 86-year-old Shoah survivor Hedy Epstein, and they are going to hear the Israeli government talking about its need to protect the nation from this fleet, and they will start asking themselves whether this adds up. That is success.

      1. Sorry for the late reply….I think that yes, outside of Israel, having the flotilla come to within shouting distance of the Gazan coast will increase attention on the issue, but within Israel, not so much. There is already a propaganda narrative on the issue in Israel which is: “these useful idiots are helping our enemies rebuild their society so that they can resume rocket attacks at any time; everybody in Gaza is armed to the teeth and just waiting to attack.” So any tools, building supplies, etc. will be labled as “military goods” by the government. It goes without saying that not everyone believes the narrative in Gaza, but to enough people the idea that “foreigners” were aiding Hamas will join the number of half-truths, lies, distortions promulgated by the Israel government and right-Zionist groups to maintain the status quo.

        I don’t believe anything will ever change with the Israeli government until the main backer, the US, stops military aid. Therefore I think that the bulk of future efforts should be to get whatever aid possible to the Gazans in whichever way possible and forget any attempts at PR; which will mean dumping small packages out of low-flying light planes, trucks from Egypt, etc.

  5. “Of course, there is no state of war since there’s a ceasefire”

    Where are you getting your facts from ?101, What are you ? The international terms Rejuvenator ?

    From Wikipedia:
    ” A ceasefire (or truce) is a temporary stoppage of a war in which each side agrees with the other to SUSPEND aggressive actions… An armistice is a formal agreement to end fighting. ”

    A ceasefire emphasis on that fact that there is a stage of war between two parties. Your analysis is …..wrong.

    1. Since when does Wikipedia serve as an aribter of international behavior? There has been a two year ceasefire between Israel & Hamas. There is no state of war. None has been declared by either side.

      And the next time you add that fake Mossad e mail address to a comment I’ll ban your ass faster than you can say “Tamir Pardo.” Mark my words.

        1. Isn’t that what I just said? Do you read? I said that his Mossad e mail was FAKE.

          But whether or not Mossad posts here they surely read the blog. We certainly know that MFA & Justice Ministry staff are reading it regularly. Why not Mossad?

        1. Yeah, he’s trying to associate himself w. them. It’s a big fake-out for him. He thinks it’s a barrel of laughs. Apparently doesn’t know or care that numerous Israelis publicly call for Mossad to kill me. Or maybe he does know & figures he’ll try some of the same psy ops behavior.

  6. Let us be clear on what might have prevented the Mavi Marmara from departing, if indeed the reason is political. The reason is the problem in Hatay/Antakya. See my remarks on Turkey.

    No doubt Israel has made a deal with Turkey, whereby Israel will not support a change of regime in Syria (which they would not have done anyway), in exchange for a rewarming of relations (which equally the Turks may not obey).

  7. As a passenger on the Canadian flotilla boat TAHRIR I can attest to the fact we know we are already successful. We are learning more every day of the extent to which Israel’s long arm is squeezing governments and insurance companies and communications suppliers. We know we are being followed and monitored here. Yesterday the U.S. government went so far as to say we could be breaking U.S. law and may be jailed on our return home.

    Of course we want to reach Gaza. After the experience of sailing into Gaza port three years ago and being greeted by 40,000 people there, I am eager to return, as I promised I would. Vittorio Arrigoni was on that first boat with me, and he waited at the port for every boat since, most of which were stopped by Israeli Pirates of the Mediterranean. Insha’Allah we will arrive in Gaza this time, but for me it will be bittersweet without Vik there to greet us and lead us in a rousing chorus of Bella Caio, Bella Caio, Bella Caio Caio Caio.

    Israel has the power. We have no power except the power of standing up for justice. No Israeli guns or attack dogs or prisons can take away our belief in what we are doing. And with every boat it attacks, every passenger it murders, Israel will continue to lose more of what little respect and legitimacy it still has. And the Palestinians will know how much we care about their suffering, how determined we are to keep up the pressure until Gaza is free.

  8. Mary, good luck to all of you. Take good care of yourselves and give our heartfelt greetings and love to the besieged mothers and children of Gaza. Let them know that people around the world, including many Jews, feel strongly about their predicament and will work incessantly to stop the blockade and help bring true peace and prosperity to both Arabs and Jews of Palestine and Israel.

  9. Mary, heartfelt thanks. I hope the mission succeeds in raising awareness, and helps the Gazan’s.

    Good luck, and keep us posted, whenever possible. There are forces out there determined to hijack the cause and turn it into something “malevelont”.

    I hope you and the other activists return safely, Inshallah.

  10. There is a state of War btwn Hamas and Israel.
    Read the hamas charter, they state there they will not stop until Israel is eradicated.
    In addition, you yourselve write here that is supposed to be a ceasefire. A status of ceasefire exist only in a state of war.
    Had there been not war, what is the meaing of ceasefire ?
    It is a period of stopping acts of war during a war.
    Not to say that even if that ceasefire existed, of which you are not able to find a shread of evidance, it may not be full ceasefire, it may be only paritial in areas both parties agreed on.
    So what we have:
    1. There is a declaration of war.
    2. There is an alleged ceasefire, yet no proof provided for it.
    3. A ceasefire is by definition, during war.
    4. The alleged ceasefire can be partial.

    But you claim there is no war.

    1. Dear Free Man

      As you are well aware, Hamas will not be ruling over the state of Palestine when it comes into being.

      Once a peace treaty is signed, the “Hamas Charter” will be torn up, and a proper Palestinian government will be put put into place.

      Are you stupid? Do you think the world and the UN will admit a state into it’s midst that has a charter dedicated to it’s neighbour’s destruction?

      Use your brain for once!

      1. As usual, Richard neglects his duty here as moderator, and the Palestinian righties abuse it to presonly insult me.
        Well, it is not different than the way UN acts, so why should I expect any better here.

        Anyways, don’t expect me to answer abusers.

        1. Everybody who doesn’t agree with you are ‘Palestinians’ ? Just as everybody who doesn’t like Zionism are ‘racists’.
          Chayma is surely not Palestinian.
          But you know how to play the victim card, don’t you ?
          Your comments are too inconsistent to be a plain Hasbarista, I wonder whether you’re not a simple (in the sens ‘plain’ and NOT ‘low intelligence’ …) agent provocateur.

          1. Writing things I’ve never said will get you nowhere.
            I’ve never said that “everybody who doesnt like Zionists are racists”.
            Anybody has a right to like or dislike any human concept or a group goal. Certainly when it is in direct contradiction with her own group goal.
            As for your comment, of me being, how you put it “not plain hasbarita”, I could degrade myself and call you names as well, but that would be degrade me to your level, which I refuse even in order to insult you back.

          2. @ Free man
            You wrote verbatim “RACISTS like you don’t deserve to be answered” to Cliff’s “Zionists like the guy above [you] have no sense of reality” (thread: “Lying IDF General, June 17th).

            You are indeed accusing Cliff of being a racist based solely on his statements about a certain kind of Zionists.

            And in stread of whining about the moderation and the ‘insults’ of other commenters, why don’t you answer the questions that people ask you concerning your often very cryptic comments. We might get the impression that this is your procedure when you have no arguments !

            Personally, I’m still waiting for a clarification: do you actually believe that ALL citizens in Israel have equal rights and obligations or do you want it to be so, all while acknowledging that it’s NOT the case. Your comment on that was very unclear.

          3. Yes, I’m accusing Cliff of being a racist on his own statement that “Zionists do not have a sense of reality”.
            If you fail to see that this is a racist statement, it is only because your political views blind you.
            Some people responding to this blog find it hard to face ideas and thoughts that are different than their own and the way they respond to then is by violence and ridicule.

          4. @ Free man
            You write “I’m accusing Cliff of being a racist on his own statement that “Zionists do not have a sense of reality” “.
            He DIDN’T write that.
            He wrote “Zionists LIKE the guy above [talking about you] have no sense of reality”.
            You don’t get the difference ?
            Instead of playing the antisemitic card, you play the racist one. You have no arguments, that’s all.

            First of all, Zionism is an ideology, and an opponent can’t be considered racist. Is an anti-communist a racist ?
            You’ re whining about people insulting you, but calling someone a racist is not an insult to you. Well, you’ve just confirmed that you are indeed ignorant.
            And personally I think that Zionism is racist, or supremacist if you like, not the opponents to Zionism. I’m not saying that all Zionists are ethnic supremacists, but the ideology of political Zionism, yes.

            You still didn’t clarify whether you think ALL citizens in Israel actually have equal rights and obligations or whether you think it should be so all while realizing it’s not the case.

          1. I wish your comments would be true, that the Hamas will not be ruling and that it’s charter will be torn. But unfortunately, reality is not what I wish or what you think. In reality, when the Palestinians had their first chance to decide, they elected the Hamas to lead them.
            As to what should be done, I don’t have high hopes from the Palestinians right now, they’ve made a strategic choice to force a Palestinian state on Israel by applying international pressure. In that case the Israeli reaction will be to hold all its cards close to the chest and play the international diplomacy game to counter that act.
            What I expect my gov. to do, no matter the Palestinians actions is to show real intent to solve the Israel-Palestine issue both for the Israeli people and the Palestinians.
            Such actions should at least include stopping the settlement building, lift as much limitations as possible from the Palestinians, fix the defense wall, to be not harming civilian life and show initiative in the peace process.

          2. fix the defense wall

            I don’t know what you mean by “fix.” Do you mean to move it in sections as the Israeli Supreme Court demanded 4 yrs ago & the IDF refused to do until this week? As for “Defense Wall” not even the Bibi gov’t calls it that. This is a new height in the hasbara game. Call a wall that steals nearly 20% of Palestinian land a defensive barrier.

          3. Clarification: When I say I expect it to be fixed, that is change its position on the green line.
            As for calling this Hasbara, you have to be really blind to argue that a fence, which is the most defensive act one can think of, erected due to 1000 civilians killed by Palestinians who targeted civilians by human bombs, is not a defensive measure.

          4. The Wall is not a defensive measure since there are thousands of places where any Palestinian intent of killing Israelis could cross into Israel–even now. The Wall hasn’t stopped a single act of terror. But it has stolen Palestinian land. In that sense the Wall is offensive as far as Palestinians are concerned.

          5. Richard is right on that, Free man. Thousands of Palestinians bypass the wall every day in order to work illegally in Israel. I know people who risk it just to see old friends in Jerusalem, as an act of civil disobedience. They face jail if caught, but they haven’t been caught yet.

            When Shai visited the West Bank we had to evade the wall and the checkpoints on the way in and out of Bethlehem, as Israeli law forbids Israelis from entering Area A. He was startled by just how easy it was. Most Israelis seem to imagine that the wall is a watertight bulwark against terror. It isn’t.

    2. Read the hamas charter

      Big comment rule no-no, Free Man. We’ve been over & over the Charter here ad nauseam & you won’t go there. It proves nothing whatsoever about latter-day Hamas.

      A status of ceasefire exist only in a state of war.

      No, cease fire means a cessation of violence which has generally been the case for the past 2 yrs. THere is no state of war not on the Israeli side & certainly not on the Gazan side. There is a ceasefire in effect in Kashmir. Does that mean there is a state of war bet. India & Pakistan? If so, I missed that.

      When there is a war there are acts of war. When there is a ceasefire the violence stops.

      if that ceasefire existed, of which you are not able to find a shread of evidance

      Are you claiming the Israeli gov’t didn’t announce a ceasefire after Cast Lead & that that ceasefire doesn’t continue to this day? If you are, those are some mighty fine drugs you’re on. You know Israel agreed to a ceasefire. You know Israel is honoring it generally as Hamas is. Yet you claim there is no proof. I think this is arguing in bad faith & I really detest that.

  11. Israel’s most successful tools have been bribery, intimidation, and brutality. For all its braggadacio, Israel doesn’t know what to do about the flotilla. It hasn’t tried to bribe us because it knows we cannot be bribed. It has tried intimidation but we have shown we will not be intimidated. Finally, it resorted to brutality in the belief we would not have the courage to stand up to its powerful military machine. We are not deterred.

    We know we and the Palestinians are winners. With every attack on a boat filled with unarmed civilians, Israel hammers another nail in its coffin. With every white phosphorous bomb Israel uses to kill a Palestinian child, it hammers another nail in its coffin. The BDS movement has gained momentum around the world and is seemingly unstoppable. Israel needs to take a hard look at itself while there is still time to save the state. It must recognize it can never survive as a Jewish state and its only hope is to become a true democracy for all its people.

    1. 1) “Israel’s most successful tools have been bribery, intimidation, and brutality.”….
      …..no!,we are neither the Mafia nor Syria but we are in fact the only democracy in the ME,
      though I will admit, an imperfect democracy. In Israel for example, Palestinian Arab women can come and go as they choose,dress as they choose,drive cars,be doctors and be elected to Parliament.

      2) “Israel doesn’t know what to do about the flotilla”……correct!

      3)”We know we and the Palestinians are winners”……is that what this is about…winning!.

      4) “With every attack on a boat filled with unarmed civilians, Israel hammers another nail in its
      coffin”……..is this what your mission is about! …..hammering nails in Israel’s coffin,
      putting Israel in an awkward position and hoping that she reacts foolishly.
      You wrap yourself in a humanitarian cloak but you are actually more engaged in political
      propaganda than in in pro-Palestinian aid.

      5) “Israel needs to take a hard look at itself while there is still time to save the state.”
      …..very true!

      6) “It must recognize it can never survive as a Jewish state…..”
      …..we will do every moral thing in our power to survive as a Jewish state,thank you.

      7) For what I am about to say I apologize if it offends you but intuitively I feel that your motives
      are hypocritical.You head off to Gaza like modern day crusaders and just like the crusaders
      you prefer distant causes to those at closer to home but charity begins at home.

      8) You become involved in a conflict for ostensibly humanitarian motives and yes, the
      Palestinians living in Gaza are suffering,yes,they are victims of collective punishment by
      Israel,yes, innocent children are suffering and I am sad to say, dying, but have
      you ever asked yourself why, have you ever stepped back to see the bigger picture.
      Why is some much money spent on weapons for Gaza.Why is so much effort made to smuggle
      these weapons into Gaza.If the people who decide on these matters really cared about the
      people of Gaza would they not smuggle food and medical supplies instead and if they were to
      smuggle only food and medical supplies would there be a need for a blockade.

      9) When Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in Sept 2005 why did the Palestinians not grab
      the opportunity to build a nation.

      1. we are in fact the only democracy in the ME,

        Stop with the nonsense. There are quite a few other democracies which you’re neglecting. We’ve gone over this issue it feels like 100 times. Don’t show yrself to be a fool. Or do you find that Turkey isn’t in the M.E., or Lebanon, or Egypt, shortly to hold its first truly democractic election?

        Palestinian Arab women can come and go as they choose,dress as they choose,drive cars,be doctors and be elected to Parliament.

        You mean, except when they are killed in honor killings which the police generally refuse to investigate or prosecute; and can be elected to Knesset where they are promptly stripped of their privileges for being alleged traitors to the state.

        .is this what your mission is about! …..hammering nails in Israel’s coffin

        Trying reading carefully what she wrote. She wrote that ISRAEL is hammering nails into its own coffin. Not that the Flotilla was. And she is correct.

        we will do every moral thing in our power to survive as a Jewish state

        And many immoral things as well.

        You head off to Gaza like modern day crusaders

        You have the goddamn nerve to call her a “Crusader???” That about does it for me. YOU are the one who is far more a colonizer & Crusader than she. At least she is trying to help the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine and they seek & approve of her help. Which indigenous people to the Middle East asked you to help them? You better watch yrself. That was off the offensive charts for me.

        Why is some much money spent on weapons for Gaza.

        Why is so much money spent on weapons for Israel when an agreement to live within 67 borders would result in a peace agreement & end the need for such a Spartan militarist state?? Hamas needs weapons for precisely the reason Israel needs them. It seeks to end the Occupation & Israel refuses.

        When Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in Sept 2005 why did the Palestinians not grab
        the opportunity to build a nation.

        Because Israel didn’t give them a nation, it gave them a Bantustan called Gaza unconnected to the West Bank. If Israel gave the Palestinians a nation or allowed one to be declared in Gaza & the West Bank the Palestinians would build one. It is YOUR country & you who stand in the way of that happening.

        1. 1)…”She wrote that ISRAEL is hammering nails into its own coffin. Not that the Flotilla was. And she is correct.”
          Israel’s authority is being very publicly challenged and Israel is in a “lose-lose”dilemma,
          lose if you stop the flotilla ,lose if you do not. Because of the very defensive political thinking in Israel today, she is likely to stop the flotilla with all of the attending fallout.
          Bibi,Barak and Liberman are likely to fall into the trap and the intended purpose of this flotilla will be achieved.
          Everybody knows this and the flotilla organizers are counting on it.
          Any aid to Gaza can be safely delivered through Egypt or Israel.
          I guess it’s like bull baiting,everything depends upon the bull reacting in a predictable manner.
          This is nothing more than an exercise in publicly humiliating Israel.
          How will that further the cause of peace in the region, on the contrary it will cause more tension.
          This flotilla will has a high likelihood of causing further delegitimization of Israel and might be another step in the direction of another war so I cannot see that there is anything noble in that.

          I am not detracting from the rights of Palestinians and I hope that they have their own,fully independent state.This will change the nature of the conflict from state vs dispossessed people to state vs state.

          2) we will do every moral thing in our power to survive as a Jewish state….
          “And many immoral things as well.”……Yes Richard,some immoral things too,c’est la vie.

          3) “You have the goddamn nerve to call her a “Crusader???”…….I said “You head off to Gaza like modern day crusaders” She is obviously not a crusader and has not come to conquer the holyland but I think that the case can be made that there are similarities between the flotilla and the crusaders of olde.
          Richard, please,in the interest of peace and all of the area inhabitants, try to understand what I am attempting to convey,namely that this flotilla is a provocation and cannot benefit anyone in the area in the long run.
          I do not intent to insult Ms.Thompson but I do disagree with her and I do believe that this flotilla is a mini version of failed foreign intervention.Again,without wishing to insult Ms.Thompson I say that the way to regional war can be paved with good intentions.

          4) “Hamas needs weapons for precisely the reason Israel needs them. It seeks to end the Occupation & Israel refuses.”……Do you justify the use of weapons by Hamas or it’s cronies
          to kill Jews.

          5)”Which indigenous people to the Middle East asked you to help them?”….Israel has the right to encourage Alia.

          6)”it gave them a Bantustan called Gaza “…….and what did they do with it,cooperate with Israel to build trust and a nation….sadly no,they preferred easy Iranian money.

          1. Israel’s authority is being very publicly challenged

            “Authority?” Israel has no authority over Gaza by its own admission. It claims to have evacuated Gaza and not to be occupying it. Yet now you claim that Israel has “authority” over it. Which is it? Also, Israel has no “authority” to starve Gaza into submission.

            lose if you do not.

            Nonsense, Ehud Olmert allowed ships to break the blockade. I didn’t notice that the sky fell or Israel was destroyed because of it.

            Any aid to Gaza can be safely delivered through Egypt or Israel.

            Not the point. Gaza should be a free place into which anyone should be allowed to bring anything legal & non-military. Gaza must be free. Not a vassal of Israel or Egypt.

            This flotilla will has a high likelihood of causing further delegitimization of Israel

            Yes, but it will be ISRAEL itself that will bring about its own delegitimization. Not the Flotilla or anything it does.

            I do believe that this flotilla is a mini version of failed foreign intervention.

            That’s assuming that Israel plays the role of the indigenous inhabitants of the ancient Holy Land in this little fake Crusader analogy you’ve created. But Israelis are not like the Arabs of the Holy Land in the time of the Crusaders. They are rather more like the Crusaders, as aliens who came to the land to conquer it. The Flotilla activists in this little charade you’ve created are more like allies of the Arabs who came to their defense when the Crusaders invaded. So much for stretched historical analogies.

            So you’ve found one incident in the past 2 yrs. of Hamas firing a missile into Israel. Yes, it happened. And what does it mean? If Israel withdrew to 67 borders & recognized Palestine there would be no more missiles. Until it does there will be. It’s as sad, tragic & simple as that I’m afraid.

            and what did they do with it

            I’m afraid you can’t do much with a Bantustan.

            they preferred easy Iranian money.

            This is political grandstanding. A smear you read at some propaganda website. I don’t think it’s either rigorous, precise or an argument made in good faith. So stop with the sloganeering.

      2. @ Daniel
        “Charity begins at home”
        Why don’t you say that to the thousands of Americans who spend their life ‘hasbarizing’ for Israel, not to talk about the Congress who spends billions of dollars on the ‘Villa-In-The-Jungle’ while thousands of Americans are homeless ? Tell Foxman, Kristol, Pipes, Perle etc etc to concentrate on internal American affairs.

        “We will do every MORAL thing in our power to survive as a Jewish state”.
        Do you really believe the sh.. you’re actually writing.

        Your whole comment is a bunch of self-righteous crap, like one of your first comments here where you had the guts to write that hopefully the Palestinians would realize the goodwill of Zionism. Well, I’m going to vomit …

        1. @ Deïr Yassin
          I do want to answer you on this one…

          1)”Why don’t you say that to the thousands of Americans who spend their life
          ‘hasbarizing’ for Israel”…….I cannot even answer a miniscule fraction of the
          Israel-delegitimizers so I’ll have to leave you to deal with the pro Israel
          But I will say that both the Israel-delegitimizers and extreme pro Israel
          hasbarizers distort the truth and thus neither serve the cause of peace.
          The keyword to solving the conflict is compromise and if David Trimble could
          sit down with Jerry Adams in N.Ireland then anything is possible.

          2) “We will do every MORAL thing in our power to survive as a Jewish state”.
          “Do you really believe the sh.. you’re actually writing.”……honestly YES!
          and I will add that if Israel strays from the path of morality then she and not
          the Palestinians becomes her own biggest problem.
          The occupation of Palestinians has in my opinion caused a considerable
          erosion of moral values in Israel.The IDF should never have been used in the
          role of enforcer for any extended period of time.It is not something that we
          planned as it was forced upon us but it is something that we should not
          have accepted for 43 years.

          3)” like one of your first comments here where you had the guts to write that
          hopefully the Palestinians would realize the goodwill of Zionism.”…..not my
          style and most likely not my words ( please post the original if you have it )
          I believe that nations like individuals should be allowed unfettered freedom to
          fulfill their destiny (as long as it does not impinge upon the same rights of
          others).Palestinians have had enough of Israeli control,it’s time for them to
          control themselves.Palestinians and Israelis need a break from each other.

          4)”Well, I’m going to vomit …”…………بس

          1. @ Daniel)

            My comment that you address in your point 1 was an answer to your initial comment (point 7) to Mary Hughes-Thompson where you question her motives for going to Gaza, and your statement on “Charity begins at home”. Go tell that to the Diaspora Jews and other Zionists who spend their time defending a cause much less noble than the Gaza Flotilla.

            On your point 3.
            In fact, your words were even more self righteous.
            On the comment thread dedicated to the article on Yehudah Bauer (20 th April), you write:
            “I do hope that the Palestinians appreciate the NOBLE GESTURE ….”

            Another Israeli Narcissus ….

            “If Israel strays from the path of morality”

            Well, I don’t even have to comment. You’re either living in a parallel universe or on dope, maybe Ziocaïne …

  12. @Deïr Yassin

    1)” In fact, your words were even more self righteous.”

    No,Madam.The genuine efforts of the Israeli left are a “NOBLE GESTURE” and like the feeble flames of a new future they are to be encouraged.
    Many Israelis here make a genuine effort to examine themselves and their government to see where we fall short.We do that because we strive to be true to ourselves and to past and future generations.
    I do not see a reciprocal effort being made on the other side (I may simply not see what does exist)
    When will you, Deïr Yassin, explain to us how you see any shortcomings of the Palestinian leadership past and present.
    I do want to see a new era in the Israeli Palestinian conflict with an independent Palestinian state.Will that state strive to make the lives of it’s citizens better.Will that state take responsibility for it’s future.Will that state lay responsibility for it’s problems at Israel’s doorstep.

    Despite the wrongs that Israel has done to the Palestinians it us now incumbent upon the Palestinian to take responsibility for their future.
    Speaking personally,I know that the first step to change is taking responsibility for the present.
    Ain’t no Ziocaïne down here.

  13. There is absolutely nothing close to a ‘noble gesture’ in Yehudah Bauer’s statements that you commented. He’s against the occupation of the West Bank, not because he cares about the Palestinians but because he cares about the Israelis – like a great number of Israelis by the way.
    I know you think Israel is God’s gift to humanity, but only a few people share your enthusiasm, and no Palestinians for sure.
    I can hardly see any Israeli gesture that I would consider ‘noble’. On a individual basis, I consider Dorothy Naor’s posting on al-Masri’s grandson’s facebook wall (who was seriously wounded during the Nakba commemorations) a truly noble gesture: she said she was hoping for a One State and that she would gladly give up her house for Palestinians to return home. That’s noble though she has also profited from the collective theft.

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