29 thoughts on “Former Israeli Defense Minister Warns of BDS, Sanctions – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
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  1. Fuad almost died in hospital a few weeks ago. He is a sick, tired, depressed old man and he views Israel from that viewpoint. He isn’t the first. BTW-He was NEVER Chief of Staff.
    Regarding his views…he was the first the Israeli cabinet minister to visit with Arafat. He said he is now a man of peace. So much for his credibility. “Nuff said?

    I

    1. Actually, Israel is more sick, tired & depressing than anything Fuad is feeling I guarantee you. I respect him for being the first minister to visit a Palestinian leader. You said John McCain was going to win the presidency & Obama wouldn’t be re-elected. Look how wrong you were about personalities. I don’t hold it against him that he did something brave & courageous. He’s an honorable, decent man & a mensch. You’re a mean-spirited uncharitable person who confuses your own opinions about someone you disagree with for the truth about them.

      1. So I’m mean-spirited? Aren’t you the one who uses the word “Pro-Israel” as an epithet.? Was Arafat really man of peace?
        But what I find most interesting is the moral gymnastics. Up until a month ago, Dagan was a homicidal, bloodthirsty assasin and kidnapper. Now that he has come out against Netanyahu he is a far-sighted visionary. Sharon was once considered a monster because of the Lebanon I war and Sabra and Shatilla, but now, since Gush Katif, he is called by the Left the second greatest PM since Ben-Gurion.
        I guess the only thing that counts is what can somebody do for me at the moment.

        1. So I’m mean-spirited?

          Indeed, you have Fuad on his death bed sunk in depression solely in order to discredit his praiseworthy ideas. That’s mean spirited.

          Aren’t you the one who uses the word “Pro-Israel” as an epithet.?

          No I’m not, because I am pro Israeli. I almost always use another adjective like pro Israeli extremist or pro Israeli nationalist or the like. There’s nothing wrong with pro Israel.

          Up until a month ago, Dagan was a homicidal, bloodthirsty assasin and kidnapper. Now that he has come out against Netanyahu he is a far-sighted visionary.

          Not quite. I was loudly critical of Dagan’s role in the al Mabouh assassination & the Iran sabotage. When Dagan left government he made highly cogent, articulate brave statements about public policy. I haven’t changed my mind about the assassinations one bit. They were inexcusable & disastrous for Israel. But he may yet redeem himself depending on how he carries himself forward.

          Unlike you I don’t see the world as a monolith or have a single monolithic judgment of people unless they are monolithic. Dagan clearly is not so my judgment is calculated & nuanced.

          I never called Sharon the 2nd greatest anything. I have no idea who on “the Left” (never let a settlerist determine who or what is “Left”) you’re talking about. Not me certainly. But I also believe that Sharon to an extent redeemed himself as well at the end.

          I guess the only thing that counts is what can somebody do for me at the moment.

          No, I think that’s the motto of yr friends in Yizhar & Tapuach.

        2. He is still a “homicidal, bloodthirsty assasin and kidnapper”. And a raving racist, to boot.

          The fact that such a person is now considered left of the israeli mainstream should serve to expose israel’s own bloodthirst.

          1. He can’t unbecome a killer. He is what he is. His crimes should not be washed away. We tried that shtick with Sharon.

            He just lost his ability to put these deathly motivations to practice. Given some poilitical power, he will regain this ability.

            He is, however, a calculating, rather than brezerking, killer. And a patriot. He puts the country before bloodthirst. How generous. He could be useful. Perhaps very much so. But he can never regret the Nakba or the occupation. A cold peace CAN be achieved without admission of guilt, but I think, 20 years since Oslo, we can give up on that idea.

          2. I don’t think I go quite as far as you, but I think generally you’re right. His crimes are his crimes & cannot & should not be undone. But I wouldn’t say he’s still a killer.

            We don’t know how things will develop regarding Dagan. But there are many former killers in the world who go on to lead their countries in quite respectable ways. Look at deKlerk. If he wasn’t a killer he certainly authorized the killers to kill. Then presided over the dismantling of apartheid.

            I would say that any Israeli who would have the support to lead the country would have to have blood on their hands in some form or another. Do you think they’re going to elect Uri Avnery? Or Norman Finkelstein? Halevai.

          3. I agree that Dagan seems to fit the deklerk profile. We could use a deklerk, and, like the original, he would have blood on his hands.

            But this isn’t working. Every important politician for more than 20 years should have been a deklerk, esp. rabin and sharon. Where has this brought us? Maybe one day, when sanctions bring the country to the brink of ruin.
            What we need now is probably a strong opposition that can strong arm whoever is PM at the time to BECOME a deklerk. I don’t think dagan would have a place there.

      2. The man played no small role in the occupation. Lets not give credit when credit isn’t due. Just like nothing Dagan says can erase his past as a homicidal maniac. I thought at first that this march of repenting arch-criminals might be a good thing. But the more this goes on, the more I get a picture in my head of the old prussian elite waking up to a nazi germany, trying to figure out how this happened. This seems more like a swan song of any sort of reason in israel’s leadership. Tired old men sighing into oblivion. If any of them actually SUPPORTED BDS, then we’ll have something.

  2. Richard,
    BSD started before the inception of Israel. It has always been and still is a way of the Arab states to fight the Jews in Israel.
    Israel has grown from a place where there was not enough basic food to feed it’s people to one of the OECD states. All that time, there was this Arab boycott on.
    No one cannot threaten Israel or Israeli with BSD.
    You see, Israelis believe in constructive culture not destructive one. The constructive will always win.

    1. You’re confused. First of all, it’s “BDS,” not BSD. Second, you’re talking about apples & oranges. THere has never been a BDS movement before the past 2 yrs or so. There was an Arab boycott of Israel which was entirely diff. That boycott was not begun by Palestinians, but by Arab nations. It was not targeted specifically at the Occupation as BDS is.

      No one cannot threaten Israel or Israeli with BSD.

      No, no one can threaten Israel with BSD since it doesn’t exist. However, BDS is a genuine threat to the profits of Israel’s major international exporters as Moshe Neeman points out above. What does Idan Ofer know that you don’t??

      Israelis believe in constructive culture not destructive one.

      That must mean that they’re read to undo the destruction they wreaked in 1948 against Nakba refugees & the destruction they’ve wreaked in 2006 Lebanon & 2009 Gaza. If so, I rejoice. If not, then you don’t know what you’re talking about.

      1. It is not I who is confused. Call it BDS, BSD or anything it is just the same old Arab Boycott that the Arab league declared in 1945, 3 years before Israel was created. A duck is a duck, even if he trys to hide behind two new feathers.
        Israel thrived with the Arab boycott and it will continue to do so even if a couple of Jews joined it.

        1. When most of the world start refusing buying Israeli products, you might start singing a different tune.

          1. It may be you doing the singing.
            Anyway, you should know by now that Jews are used to being banned and harassed. This kind of treatment only strengthen them.
            If you think that this will “force Israel” to do something, you know nothing how humans think.
            Economic forces can change only economic behavior, not national nor religious behavior.
            The only reason for this boycott is to make Israel weak enough to be eradicated. It is about time those who support it don’t lie to themselves and declare it clearly.

          2. Economic forces can change only economic behavior, not national nor religious behavior.

            Tell it to S. Africa.

            The only reason for this boycott is to make Israel weak enough to be eradicated.

            Oh puh-leeze. Don’t get all histrionic on us. The boycott very clearly says on its website its purpose is to end the Occupation. If you wish to create your own false claims about BDS, you’ll do that elsewhere. As I’ve told you & others many times: facts, not opinions dressed up as facts.

          3. Free man, there is a difference between boycotting Israeli goods and boycotting Jewish goods. Please don’t conflate the two.

        2. it is just the same old Arab Boycott that the Arab league declared in 1945

          That’s like saying the Space Shuttle is nothing but a USAF fighter jet. They’re hugely different, but vaguely related. BDS ain’t no duck. Ducks don’t have teeth, BDS will & eventually you will feel it. The Arab boycott had no serious impact on Israel. BDS does & will.

          Again Idan Ofer is among the 100 richest people in the world & he’s runnin’ scared fr. BDS. He knows something you don’t. In fact, there are a lot of things you don’t know. Much more than you realize.

          1. I don’t realy care for Mr. Ofer. What makes Mr. Ofer scared makes me happy. This man has done nothing for this world. His only virtue is the fact he is a son of a very rich man.
            I’d rather hear things from people who are smart and made a difference. If you insist on rich people they maybe:
            Stef Verthimer, Eli Hurvitz, Dedi Perlmuter, Judith Richter, Dov moran, Yehudit Bronicki (just to name a few).

    2. “You see, Israelis believe in constructive culture not destructive one. The constructive will always win.”

      My brain must have short-circuited for, like, a minute there.

      If you want to present BDS as a tactic of israel’s enemies, go right ahead. Just goes to show that israel has made enemies of just about everyone. One might wonder how an arab tactic became a global one. Israel will find that when you do crimes against humanity, humanity sometimes strikes back.

      1. What are your views on the BDS campaign, Duck? This comment sounds quite supportive, but I remember you arguing against the campaign a few months back.

        1. I don’t remember exactly what I wrote back then, but generally I have always been quite ambivalent about BDS.

          I can certainly understand why someone would support it, but in the end supporting it is essentially making an act against my country. I do love my country too much to feel comfortable with such a notion.

          As time passes and my involvement deepens, though, I do lean increasingly towards fully supporting BDS. It may well be the only truly patriotic choice. I feel that history will judge anyone playing by the occupation’s rules as enabling it.

  3. Richard,

    Indeed. BDS is viewed as a major threat (and a *very* new one, despite the hallucinatory comment made above) by top Israeli business leaders, as covered on the IOA website.

    A recent private meeting of Israel’s leading businessmen, held in near-secrecy, reported by Calcalist, a leading Israeli business website, included the following:

    “‘We are rapidly turning into South Africa. The economic hardship due to sanctions will be felt by every family in Israel,’ said Idan Ofer at a gathering of some 80 businessmen.”

    [Ofer is a managing member of the Ofer family-own Israeli conglomerate that’s been in the news recently for shipping goods to Iran.]

    As the IOA editor noted: A clear indication of how Israel’s ruling elite is deeply concerned about the potential economic impacts of BDS on Israel’s economy and on all Israelis. The meeting, which was organized in great secrecy, included Israeli billionaires and other leading business figures and its purpose was to support a diplomatic initiative designed to avert the impending deterioration of Israel’s global status.

    Those who read Hebrew can access the full article here:

    http://www.israeli-occupation.org/2011-05-29/on-the-agenda-israeli-businessmen-lead-a-diplomatic-initiative/

    ATB,
    The IOA Team

    1. The writing is on the wall,the Palestinians have come of age and need to exercise their right to self determination.
      To hinder them can only generate bad karma.
      Let us welcome the Palestinian state (مبروك) and prepare ourselves for the day after.The possible economic upside is enormous.
      The time requires true leadership in Israel.

      On a more pragmatic (Machiavellian) note,I quote Prof. Ruby Seibel
      “…a conditional recognition of a Palestinian state will alleviate the current international pressure on Jerusalem. “We have another interest in the conflict, which is to transform the international image of the conflict as portrayed by the Palestinians – a conflict between a state and a people under occupation – to a conflict between two states.”

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4080609,00.html

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