54 thoughts on “Don’t Waste Our Time, Bibi – Tikun Olam תיקון עולם إصلاح العالم
Comments are published at the sole discretion of the owner.

  1. This post shows hoe much you really understand what is going on in the world. A train to no where
    1. The UN general assembly already decided on creating a Palestinian state, this was done on December 15, 1988.
    nothing happened, – http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/146E6838D505833F852560D600471E25
    2. The only body that can actually implement a decision is the UN Security council, since obama objects the ROR and Germany announced they are against one sided solutions, Israel is granted a veto.

    nothing will happen this train will go nowhere.

    Besides, Livini who spoke right after Bibi said the exact same things, No ROR, No No to any agreement that doesn’t recognize Israeli a priori as a “Jewish state”, and no to dealing with Hamas.

    Israel stands didn’t change and will not change.

    remember out discussion about flying to Israel ? i have enough miles on my cc to get you a flight, so when would you like to go ?

    1. The General Assembly declared Israel to be an independent state in 1948. All you have to do is Google to discover that you are wrong. And the GA can declare Palestinian statehood in 2011. How the nations of the world react will determine whether the declaration is recognized. Italy has joined several other EU countries today in upgrading the mission status of the Palestinian embassy. Statehood is comin’. All who are on board better get out of the way or the train will carry them with it.

      Frankly, I could care less what Tzipi Livni says. A peace agreement is not possible w. current Israeli political leadership. It will likely be imposed by an international body or the Quartet.

      No, you’re not booking my flight for me. I’ll be the one doing that. I only want people I know & choose to know when I’m coming. And I won’t fly El Al. So if you have miles on any other airline flying into Israel you check with them on how to purchase a ticket w. miles & let me know what they say.

      1. 1. As for the airline ticket, this is the offer, you tell me when you want to fly and i will get you the ticket. As i live in Memphis (for at least another year) i will not be at the airport, and if its the security apparatus you fear, they will now when you are arriving anyhow.
        2. Zipi Livni, & Bibi represent the opinion of most of the Israeli’s, so it’s not the politicians you have an issue with, it’s us Israeli people you have an issue with.
        3. Your answer to fuster below, made me laugh. You should open a comedy club.

        1. No sorry. If I’m traveling to Israel I’m not broadcasting it to you or anyone else. All I need is a Rotter fan club w Shabak accompaniment mtg me at the airport.

          If u can do this on those terms you’re on, if not not.

          You can prob transfer miles fr yr acct to mine thus allowing me to make the arrangements myself.

          That’s my deal.

          1. 1.What founded the State of Israel wasn’t the deceleration of the US general assembly, but the 1948 war of independence. The ability of the state to support itself, financially and territory wise. the Palestinians do not meet these precondition. they do not have a territory, can’t support themselves financially, and of course this unity government bluff will not hold water.
            2. Send me you mileage account number, i will transfer you the miles. i doubt you will, and i doubt you will go.
            at the end of the day, you are a real keyboard hero.

          2. I see. You first argue that only the Security Council can recognize a state. Then when I point out that the General Assembly recognized Israel, you change the argument to a non sequitur. BTW, every major UN body required to pass muster on the Palestinian application for statehood contradicts you & says the Palestinians are ready for statehood. The fact is that YOU are not ready for Palestinian statehood & substitute yr own opinion of the campaign for an objective one. In most places that’s called propaganda rather than reality based argument.

          3. and one last thing, the name of every passenger arriving to Israel is monitored by the Shabbak, so the ” Security apparatus” would be able to come and meet you if they so wish.
            i assume that few of the people at rotter has great contacts with the shabbak, so they would know as well.
            the only one left in the dark would be me, but i wouldn’t waste my time flying to israel to welcome you anyhow.

          4. I never said Shabak wouldn’t know I was coming. But I don’t feel the need to broadcast that fact well before I even make the reservation. I’d rather make it harder for them than easier.

          5. You twist what i said.
            i said that only the security council can implement a decision, in within that body, based on the statements of Obama and Markelת Israel is granted majority.
            so good luck.

            the general assembly already decided on creating a PA state.
            the link was provided above.
            nothing happened.

          6. No, you said that only the Security Council can recognize Palestine as a state. Now, once again, you’re trying to change the terms of debate & erase yr own previous statements.

          7. Richard,
            How can you lie about what i said when it’s written few comments above ? i know you don’t have the time to check
            this is what i said:

            “The only body that can actually implement a decision is the UN Security council”

            this is what i said and i stand by it. doe’s it says anywhere that the UN general assembly can’t make decisions ? no it doesn’t.

            so you are lying.

            by the way coward, i am still waiting for you to send me your mileage account number.

          8. I have no idea what the word “implement” means. Perhaps we’re having an ESL moment here. But “implement” essentially means that the UN Security Council is the body that move to create the new state. Once the state is created there is nothing the Security Council can do to change the decision. And if the Security Council decides to stall or refuses to “implement” the decision arrived at by the GA, well that simply isn’t done in the UN. Perhaps you can show us an example of a nation the Security Council refused to recognize or seat after the GA voted to do so.

            I’m tired of you. So you’re taking a vacation from commenting. If you decide that you wish to be civil & follow the rules let me know & I’ll consider reinstating you.

            You didn’t say I had to leave for Israel this week. Or does your offer have a deadline?

  2. Netanyahu’s cynical response to the cynical ploy of simply declaring a state that will be no closer to existence is just another step in the whole demented dance.

    No one can or will accept the pain of admitting that the best that they can do is allow a painful compromise and instead they continue lying to themselves and each other and living with the consequences of their lies and cowardice.

    The millions of Palestinians claiming a right to return from where the grandparents fled are never going to live in Israel. Anybody telling them otherwise is either selling them horsehit or believes that Israel is going to be abolished forcefully, and that’s not going to happen within the lifetime of this generation.

    1. Millions aren’t going to return. But hundreds of thousands indeed will. Get used to it. And when they do return they’re going to run rings around the Israeli Jews. In a generation they’ll be the backbone of the country in many industries & professions. And you’ll be scratching yr head trying to remember what you were so adamantly opposed to…

      In the past 40+ yrs. developments like this have happened so often I can’t even begin to tell you. Something starts out as a treasonous unthinkable notion reviled by the majority (like a 2 state solution or negotiations w. the PLO; or in other political arenas like gay rights, gay marriage, abortion rights) & in a few yrs it becomes commonplace. ROR will be the same. Mark my words.

      1. I’ll get used to it when I see it, which will be long after you and I will no longer be seeing anything at all.
        Hundreds of thousands are not going to accept Israeli citizenship if it was offered, and the offer won’t be made.

        And while Palestinians are every bit the intellectual equal of the Israelis, the generation of them raised in the squalid little camps of the neighboring states haven’t the education sufficient to keep pace, let alone run rings.

        1. You have know what Palestinian refugees are capable of. My ancestors lived in hovels in Ukraine & were poor as dirt. Now we’re making major contributions to our society. Sell Palestinian returnees short at yr peril.

          Hundreds of thousands of refugees will indeed return to settle in Israel. Whether their return is smooth or fraught w hate & violence is up to Israeli Jews. They will come. The border crossings yesterday were but a foretaste.

          1. Whether their return is smooth or fraught w hate & violence is up to Israeli Jews.

            Exempting Palestinians from responsibility?

          2. I don’t know which Palestinians you’re referring to. If it’s the returning refugees & their descendants of course they will/should be responsible for their behavior & will understand that. I would think that most returnees would understand that they are models & exemplars & their bad behavior would harm the chances for ROR to work.

        2. And while Palestinians are every bit the intellectual equal of the Israelis, the generation of them raised in the squalid little camps of the neighboring states haven’t the education sufficient to keep pace, let alone run rings.


          What a contemptuos remark about your fellow human beings. I still hope that you have some humanity and humility left in you and that it’s only you mind that’s clouded by prejudice, fear and distrust.

          Stay human …

          1. LL, nothing contemptuous about it except for the contempt for those who keep their fellow human beings in those camps.

            Vicky– I would love to be surprised, but I doubt that I would be. My nephew taught in one of those camps, but they’re really not going to produce the equivalent of a university education for many of the students.

            And yes, a society that has had to become highly militarized and oppressive in response to their conditions also suffers damage from becoming that type of society.

          2. Richard, if you wish me to evidence contempt for the Arab Higher Committee and the nations behind Arab League’s Arab Legion, the primary culprits in causing the wars that led to all the refugees, I’m too short of enthusiasm to do much to gratify you.

            Even though they’ve done little to rectify their sins and unjust actions, their ardor was cooled and I’d rather focus on the continuing injustice of denying the Palestinians their human rights by keeping them penned in camps while proclaiming that doing so is motivated by fraternal feeling.

          3. Ancient history, I’m afraid. We can argue about it till the cows come home & it don’t mean s(&t to no one, as they say.

            I’m really bored w playing the blame game when it always points at the Arabs for blame. So let’s stop the game right now. You’ve worn out yr welcome on this subject. Move on.

        3. Fuster, you’d be surprised. Education is prized in refugee camps more than anywhere else, because it’s basically all they’ve got. The director of Dheisheh’s cultural centre said to me, “As the unemployment rate is so high, we keep on educating – no one has his time idle, there are always classes and cultural events. This is our resistance.” In most camps in Lebanon, and some camps in the West Bank, the children have to go to school in shifts because the buildings are so poor and overcrowded. If you go to the UNRWA website, which lists the main problems specific to each camp, you will see that while problems related to education are often listened, truancy is never one of them. There is such a hunger to learn.

          In any case, book-learning isn’t the only form of education. The refugees have had life experiences that have taught them a lot of things about endurance and vulnerability and hope, and that knowledge is every bit as valuable as what you get in a university. I think a highly militarised society could benefit from it.

  3. Bibi’s speech was far worse: the Palestinian state, he insists, will not only be demilitarized but will contain permanent Israel troops. Moreover, no part of Jerusalem will be part of it. Since it’s been clear for years that the Israelis would not permit a genuine Palestinian state, one that had full sovereignty and could defend itself from outside aggression, those who have been advocating the so-called two-state solution have been fully complicit (or wretchedly naive) from the beginning of the so-called peace talks. Nor will a Palestinian state or pseudo-state (a protectorate, which is what the Israeli’s have always insisted the Palestinian state really be) solve the problem of Israel’s despicable racist, supremacist nature. Only a single genuinely democratic, egalitarian state and a right of return will solve the problem. We should begin by telling the difficult truth: the entire Palestinian homeland was brutally stolen in a war of aggression and conquest.

  4. —“solve the problem of Israel’s despicable racist, supremacist nature.”—

    I’m sure, Steve, that your nature isn’t debased enough to actually consider that to be the words of an adult of even average intelligence and awareness.

    Israel fits that description far less than most of the world and certainly is less despicable than most of the despotic member states of the Arab League.

    Israel is most certainly not going to allow a militarized Palestinian state to arise until some time after the establishment of Palestine. There is little trust between the Palestinians and Israelis after such a long and bloody conflict and the party holding the military advantage is not going to be quick to relinquish it.

    1. Then you’ll have a choice: armed international troops guaranteeing Palestinian borders & security or a modest Palestinian military presence. Your choice. But if u think Palestinians will allow the IDF free reign to violate Palestinian sovereignty at will, that will quickly become a thing of the past.

      1. I don’t think that the Palestinians would or should allow the Israelis to run roughshod over their state when it comes.
        Nor do I see that the Israelis would mindlessly attempt to do that.
        I can foresee that co-operation between the PA forces and the IDF to prevent cross-border violence is in their mutual interest.

        And you’re quite correct that when an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians comes about there will be many people returning to live in Israel.
        However, they won’t be Palestinians but rather Israeli settlers. Palestinians born in Lebanon or Syria or Jordan should certainly be welcomed into Palestine.

        It certainly would suit me if in future, after the blood cools and the hatred dies, the two states blended back together but nothing and no one is going to force the grandchildren of the refugees onto the Israelis, Richard.

        How could you possibly envision that happening? Though what agency other than a war that the Israelis and Americans couldn’t possibly lose?

        1. Nor do I see that the Israelis would mindlessly attempt to do that.

          What do you think Israel is doing to Palestine as I write this? Sitting & drinking tea? Of course Israel will run roughshod over Palestine if it is allowed to do so. That is the nature of the current system unfortunately. I wish it were different.

          Nakba refugees may not be welcomed by Israeli Jews into Israel, but they will be welcomed by Israeli Palestinians & they will come whether you wish it or not. And yes, I’m afraid that either the refugees will be forced on Israelis or they will be accepted. It’s really up to the Israeli Jews how they respond. But the refugees will return. Not all, for sure. But they will return. War will not cause this. Rather a healthy sense of self preservation & Israel seeing becoming another Serbia & any of its leaders being treated like Slobodan Milosevic. Serbia eventually saw the light. So will Israel.

    2. Fuster,

      You can talk as much as you want about other countries of the world. The racist laws and the racist attitudes of the majority of Jewish Israelis make it essentially a racist state.

      Look at the history of the Jewish people. All the millitaristic and nationalistic Jewish movements were defeated and forgotten for thousands of years. Until recently they were not seen as heroes by the Jews. In fact the books of the Macabees didn’t even make it into the Torah. The Zealots were condemned as fanatics, Bar Kochba was condemned as well. All these guys brought more harm to the Jewish people than any good.

      You can pride yourself on your army and military advantage. But if there’s something we learn from history is that this will inevitably change, sooner or later, and Israel will be forced to negotiate. So why not start building up good will and trust before it’s too late?

      Stay human!

      1. You can pride yourself on your army and military advantage.

        I did not see that in his post, so do you claim that ?

        Israel will be forced to negotiate

        Israel learned one thing from WW2 (and the other genocides that happen every so often in our “human world” as you call it). No one will save you when you need to be saved. This ability is something that every Israeli will insist in any negotiation. While I think that the current Israeli Gov. is gravely wrong and useless in its actions, I don’t see any Israeli Gov. reaching an agreement that will not guarantee the end of the conflict. That is for the simple reason that the Israeli border after the Palestinian state is created will not be defendable.

        1. I misunderstood you in that I concluded from your comment that you’re proud of Israeli military advantage and capabilities. I am sorry.

          People have been helping and saving Jews throughout history, and most certainly in WWII. But I agree, one is ultimately responsible for one’s survival. So what are our options? We can rely on armies, prisons, occupation, oppression, humiliation, we can rely on corrupt generals and politicians, PR campaigns, pulling strings behind the scenes, etc. Or we can build bridges, get to know the “enemy”, share our stories, ask each other for forgiveness and forgive all the wrongs we did to each other, and ultimately share as brothers in what we have to offer.

          I am sure no one will turn down a hand of friendship extended in the spirit of brotherhood, humility and forgiveness. The bonds of friendship, understanding and sharing are the best guarantee for the cessation of the conflict and lasting peace.

        2. No one will save you when you need to be saved.

          A country like Israel that adopts this type of anti-social/pathological approach to foreign relations will not have any friends when it needs them. And when such a country drives itself to its own destruction, not many will look on & want to help.

    3. @ Fuster)
      As always, the Hasbara has to compare with despotic regimes to find worse. Israel considers itself a ‘Western democracy’ and should thus be compared with those.

      Though all Arab countries are lacking democracy, none of the countries in the Maghrib or the Levant have laws endorsing ethnic supremacy among native groups.
      I don’t know where you live, but if my reading of your comments are correct, I don’t think you live in Israel. Suppose you live in the UK or Canada: honestly, would you like if the Jews where you live were restricted by the same discriminatory laws as Israeli Palestinians ?

      1. Deir,

        as always you’re an offensive sort of fool when you push the word “hasbara” onto people.

        GFY until you can give up that nonsense. when and if you can, I’ll be happy to discuss and debunk your illogic and bogus claims.

          1. having Deir address me as a hasbarist one time was enough. Repeating it after my denial and request not to repeat it merited more than fool in reply.

            please accept that fool was far less insulting than Deir’s terms and far more fitting.

            I would prefer not to deal in personal insult and when you see your way clear to rebuking Deir and the other parties who routinely offer insult, I’ll be grateful and gladly join in continuing what I’m not starting.

          2. I periodically feel that your views as hasbarist though I concede you are not a garden variety one. Your views are more liberal Zionist, which is why at times you do find things to agree w in my views.

            But unlike you when you called her a fool, she actually points out in what specific ways yr views contradict facts, reality & pro-Israel doctrine.

        1. So it isn’t propaganda when people one time after another refuse critique of the State of Israel by saying it’s better off than the neighbouring countries ? Well, I’ve lived in different countries in Europe, and I’ve never heard anyone compare the economical, political or social situation with despotic regimes or developing countries, but always with other Western democracies, and as Israel is The-Only-Democracy-In-The-Middle-East, I find it very problematic that its all-time defenders compare it with Saudi Arabia or Sudan. Apparently, not only you find that normal, you use the procedure yourself.

      2. @ DY
        to this date i didn’t figure out if you are deliberately laying or just ignorant. the truth about the Levant and Maghrib states and their treatment of the Palestinians is totally different.

        for example, the Chevalier of Human rights, Mt. Qaddafi passed laws as recently as 2010 imposing restrictions on Palestinians residing in Libya. Not to mention he was doing all that while sending a humanitarian aid ship to Gaza.

        go learn some facts, your spinning is tedious.

        1. I see no justifictation whatsoever for you to accuse Deir Yassin of lying. A diff of opinion is diff. than lying. Next time you use the term you do so precisely & prove that she has knowingly made a false statement (which is what a lie is).

        2. @ Hala)
          Maybe you should actually READ the comments before jumping on your laptop.
          I wrote “no law endorsing ethnic supremacy among NATIVE groups”. Do you know what that means ? Palestinians are not natives in Libya. Do you think I’m such an idiot that I’m not aware of discrimination towards Palestinians or other non-nationals in various Arab countries ?

          I wrote ‘native’ that is, there is no laws in Algeria endorsing ethnic supremacy in any matters of life to the Arabs over the Berbers or vice versa. Ditto in Syria, no laws giving supremacy to one groups based on ethnic origins.
          I repeat: I’m talking of natives and I’m talking about the judicial system, and not ordinary and daily life discriminations. So don’t waste your time on finding other examples of discriminations towards refugees or immigrants to the Golf states etc.
          In Israel, on the contrary, the discrimination towards the NATIVE Palestinian population is institutionalized, and don’t waste your time refusing it. We can all google ‘discrimination’ + ‘Arabs’ + ‘Israel’ and see the result.

          1. Yes yes i know what you are talking about
            one quick question, let’s assume two Palestinian got married and moved to Libya (or they were married in Libya) there son would be considered what ?
            and the laws passed by the Libyan government are directed at the 2nd 3rd and 4th generation Palestinians.
            this is discrimination at its best.

          2. Hala,

            Let’s assume two Palestinian refugees get married and decide to move back to their ancestral village inside Israel. Well, they wouldn’t even be allowed into Israel. Your arguments are so miserably illogical that it doens’t even make sense to argue with you.

            I call on everyone here not to engage in arguments with Hala anymore. It’s a waste of our precious time. He/she is not here looking to understand, but to offend, mislead and hijack discussions. When ignored, (s)he’ll disappear in a jiffy.

          3. @ Hala)
            “Yes, I know what you’re talking about”

            If you knew what I was talking about, i.e. the absence of laws endorsing ethnic supremacy among indigenous groups, how come you said I was lying. I don’t lie – the truth of what has happened to the Palestinians for the last century is more than enough – and I might be ignorant but compared with you as goes a saying ‘The one-eyed is king in the kingdom of the blinds’.

  5. RE: “But clearly, they’re at the stage of magical thinking…” – R.S.

    WELCOME TO ISRAEL ~ The Land of Delusions

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *